238 réponses à ce sujet

[J4mes]

Also, this mod basically makes Piercing + Magazine mod more viable on weapons who have a lower per bullet DPS.
Basically if you would like to take the magazine mod and use a low dpb weapon, the new piercing mod is better.

This could be useful for Tech classes wanting to use Ammo Powers to setup Combos(due to the increased magazine size) and still have reliable Boss/Armor damage to fall back on. Most Tech classes have Energy Drain/Overload/Disruptor-Ammo to take care of Shields/Barriers already, so its a win-win for them.

I'd slap this Mod on the Reegar if I could.  TBH the way the Reegar functions, it is basically an Assault Rifle.

Modifié par J4mes, 11 octobre 2012 - 02:29 .

[Koenig888]

Rifneno wrote...

ASSUMINGDIRECTC0NTR0L wrote...

My Particle Rifle wielding Destroyer disagrees.

Congratulations, you've found pretty much the ONLY thing that this is useful on.  And it provides a very small improvement.  Yeah, what an awesome mod!

There are 2 other characters who can use this without penalty - Krogan Soldier and Krogan Sentinel specced for Fortification/Nades and Tech Armor/Nades.  On other characters, the extra penetration is not worth the higher CD.  I would rather take EB and slap on some AP IV.

Modifié par Koenig888, 11 octobre 2012 - 02:42 .

[Clayless]

Agreed.

This mod is just useless.

[J4mes]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Agreed.

This mod is just useless.

Not really, it would be very useful for Human Character Power/Tech classes who take both weight reductions when combining a low dps fast rof weapon with Ammo mods cyro/disruptor/incendary who also take the magazine size mod.

Modifié par J4mes, 11 octobre 2012 - 03:02 .

[Kiernin]

Major Durza wrote...

Say I used a Typhoon with an AP mod and high-velocity barrel on a Destroyer... how long would a Brute, Bashee, Scion, or Banshee last?

However long it takes you to fire 328 rounds.

[DnA SLAYTANIC]

Assault Rifles get screwed enough as it is.

[Rebel_Raven]

Bolo Xia wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Granted, these mods aren't for every kit. The kits that care a lot about power recharge speed will probably have a hard time finding a use for them.

In my experience, the classes that care about recharge have a harder time with armored targets, so would benefit from the mods more.

Other, more weapon oriented classes can melt bosses efficiently as it is.

in these situations, set at least one power up to deal with armor ( most power based class's have an armor damage option.)
if you do this the gun damage is just a little extra melting, with no need for the HVB.

otherwise it basically forces people to choose what they want for example:
1. high weapon damage(ok power damage)
2. high power damage (ok gun damage)
3. or a balance of both.

so make your choice

I'unno, you wanna kill a brute with QFE?  Even with incinerate+cryo it's going to take an uncomfortably long time. Even hoising with SMG bullets with a HVB in between. And I'd say she's capable.

Yeah, I commonly have the anti-armor builds. Still, looking at the way some weapons oriented classes that can freely use heavy weapons melt bosses? I kinda see performance diffirnces.

And there's a flaw in your choices.

Some classes are far far less effected by weight than others which allows them to carry heavy weapons in the first place. They get to have their cake and eat it, too.

Meanwhile weight conscious classes get the kick in butt over these mods, nevermind a plethora od currently underperforming light weapons.

I can't imagine denying the fact that every character needs weapons to do it's job, and damage things, and be decently light.
Yes, some classes are less reliant on weapons, but how many classes can you honestly say are 100% completely not weapon dependant in all situations?
And when you need to depend on that weapon, the weapon needs to be dependable, yes?

[TempoGTR]

You'd think with all the "Geth pyros are too hard!" threads running around, giving AR users a second AP mod that stacks with the first would be welcomed...since then you could ignore AP ammo and use your ammo slot (which has more options available than your AR does for mods) for something else, such as disruptor/cryo/fire rounds.

[TempoGTR]

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Bolo Xia wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Granted, these mods aren't for every kit. The kits that care a lot about power recharge speed will probably have a hard time finding a use for them.

In my experience, the classes that care about recharge have a harder time with armored targets, so would benefit from the mods more.

Other, more weapon oriented classes can melt bosses efficiently as it is.

in these situations, set at least one power up to deal with armor ( most power based class's have an armor damage option.)
if you do this the gun damage is just a little extra melting, with no need for the HVB.

otherwise it basically forces people to choose what they want for example:
1. high weapon damage(ok power damage)
2. high power damage (ok gun damage)
3. or a balance of both.

so make your choice

I'unno, you wanna kill a brute with QFE?  Even with incinerate+cryo it's going to take an uncomfortably long time. Even hoising with SMG bullets with a HVB in between. And I'd say she's capable.

Yeah, I commonly have the anti-armor builds. Still, looking at the way some weapons oriented classes that can freely use heavy weapons melt bosses? I kinda see performance diffirnces.

And there's a flaw in your choices.

Some classes are far far less effected by weight than others which allows them to carry heavy weapons in the first place. They get to have their cake and eat it, too.

Meanwhile weight conscious classes get the kick in butt over these mods, nevermind a plethora od currently underperforming light weapons.

I can't imagine denying the fact that every character needs weapons to do it's job, and damage things, and be decently light.
Yes, some classes are less reliant on weapons, but how many classes can you honestly say are 100% completely not weapon dependant in all situations?
And when you need to depend on that weapon, the weapon needs to be dependable, yes?

I'd argue the Fury is 100% not weapon dependant (finished many a gold/platinum game without firing a bullet)....but you have a point.

[RGFrog]

Huh, thread too long to read...

So, if this has been, ya'know.

When I first saw the new mods it seemed obvious that they replaced the combination of EB and Piercing mod into one mod with the cost being extra weight and resulting screwed CD's and the benneifit being you'd essentially be able to use what equated to 3 mods as the trade off.

Great for soldier class or other character builds that don't rely on CD's and disastrous for those that do.

It all made great sense and seemed a balanced trade off.

Why the change?

[TempoGTR]

Also...it seems a lot of people are thinking about this from a solo point of view. While AP mod + EB gives you better overall damage in most cases, you're ignoring the use of teammates.

Most enemies can be controlled easily through abilities such as stasis. Armored units, not so much. In many cases, its better to increase your damage against armored targets to get them killed quicker. Even if you lose dps against other enemy types, those other enemies can be controlled much easier than armored targets. Having 1 squadmate designed specifically for killing armored targets can make things much easier.

[Rebel_Raven]

TempoGTR wrote...

Also...it seems a lot of people are thinking about this from a solo point of view. While AP mod + EB gives you better overall damage in most cases, you're ignoring the use of teammates.

Most enemies can be controlled easily through abilities such as stasis. Armored units, not so much. In many cases, its better to increase your damage against armored targets to get them killed quicker. Even if you lose dps against other enemy types, those other enemies can be controlled much easier than armored targets. Having 1 squadmate designed specifically for killing armored targets can make things much easier.

I PUG almost exclusively, so I gotta think in a solo mindset coz randoms are not always reliable.

Plus I have tihs weird habit of finding myself across the map from the squad unintentioanlly while on objective. They might've left, or something, I dunno! lol

Maybe I rambo objectives? I'unno. I tend to do well at it though.

When this happens, there's usually a banshee between me and them. So yeah, kinda gotta solo her coz no one's shooting her at the time.

I think a lot of us might pug, hence the solo mindset.

[capn233]

I played a couple games with it on a GPR... stacking AR Piercing and AR High Velocity Barrel. The cover penetration distance is pretty funny. That's all I can really say about it.

[Super Nothing]

TempoGTR wrote...

You'd think with all the "Geth pyros are too hard!" threads running around, giving AR users a second AP mod that stacks with the first would be welcomed...since then you could ignore AP ammo and use your ammo slot (which has more options available than your AR does for mods) for something else, such as disruptor/cryo/fire rounds.

This has already been covered.  Stacking the two armor piercing mods gives you marginal benefit at best.  It's almost always better to go with the original pierce mod and the extended barrel over two piercing mods.  Only the Avenger, GPR, and Particle Rifle get more damage from the two pierce mods.  Two of them are light weight (a feature that is ruined by adding 50% encumberance).  Even then, they only get more damage against armor.  On top of that, after you factor in the increased weight, you would be better off with a heavier AR equipped with the original pierce mod and extended barrel combo.  The only weapon that really benefits from the new mod is the Particle Rifle because you want an extended magazine to keep it "hot."  So the new mod is only useful on the Particle Rifle on classes that are not cooldown dependent.  And then it's only a slight improvement over the original pierce mod. 

[himegoto]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

+50 weight for some measly centimeters more penetration and a bit more anti-armor effectivity?


You're kidding, right?

[vonSlash]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

It's a shame how shotguns, which are widely considered to be the best and most powerful of the existing five weapon classes, get a mod that combines the functionality of both the AP mod and the Extended Barrel in exchange for the same weight increase, while Assault Rifles, which are one of the worst (if not the worst) weapon class in the game get a mod that gives you negligible extra armor damage and cover penetration for the same weight cost.

If the Shotgun mod allows non-weight-centric builds to have their cake and eat it too, why should the Assault Rifles be any different, especially when they were already at a disadvantage to shotguns before the new mods were added?

[Yajuu Omoi]

Dunno if this has been said but...
HCB:
25% Damage boost

AP Mod:
1.10m Pierce
40% Redux
65% Armor Ignore

HVB:
1.35m Pierce
40% Redux
90% Armor Ignore
0.50 Weight Added

So...theoretically...you COULD:
Pierce 2.35 meters, at 80% reduced damage (?)
and ignore 155% of armors Damage Resistance...(Does that mean you could do 55% EXTRA damage to armor? or just Ignore armors DR?)

Modifié par Yajuu Omoi, 11 octobre 2012 - 06:46 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

I'm curious though...

With AP Mod V and HVB I you'd have:
-40% and -60% damage when piercing = -100% (0 damage)
1.10m and 0.75m Piercing = 1.85m Pierce
65% and 50% ADR ignore = 105% ADR Ignore

Is that right??

I just tested...and I could clearly still damage targets THROUGH cover and walls.

Test with a Saber I with AP Mod V and HVB I on a Ghost Infil.
Bug? Or am I just not understanding the way the two mods stack?

Modifié par Yajuu Omoi, 11 octobre 2012 - 06:54 .

[Arveragus]

vonSlash wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

It's a shame how shotguns, which are widely considered to be the best and most powerful of the existing five weapon classes, get a mod that combines the functionality of both the AP mod and the Extended Barrel in exchange for the same weight increase, while Assault Rifles, which are one of the worst (if not the worst) weapon class in the game get a mod that gives you negligible extra armor damage and cover penetration for the same weight cost.

If the Shotgun mod allows non-weight-centric builds to have their cake and eat it too, why should the Assault Rifles be any different, especially when they were already at a disadvantage to shotguns before the new mods were added?

Very true. So BioWare, just do the right thing. Keep the name High Velocity Barrel and give the Assault Rifles the same mod that it is for the Shotgun and Sniper Rifle: +25% damage and lessen the armor piercing properties of the current one from 90% to 65%, while keeping the increase in weight. All Assault Rifle users will be grateful for the change.

[OneTrueShot]

Arveragus wrote...

vonSlash wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

It's a shame how shotguns, which are widely considered to be the best and most powerful of the existing five weapon classes, get a mod that combines the functionality of both the AP mod and the Extended Barrel in exchange for the same weight increase, while Assault Rifles, which are one of the worst (if not the worst) weapon class in the game get a mod that gives you negligible extra armor damage and cover penetration for the same weight cost.

If the Shotgun mod allows non-weight-centric builds to have their cake and eat it too, why should the Assault Rifles be any different, especially when they were already at a disadvantage to shotguns before the new mods were added?

Very true. So BioWare, just do the right thing. Keep the name High Velocity Barrel and give the Assault Rifles the same mod that it is for the Shotgun and Sniper Rifle: +25% damage and lessen the armor piercing properties of the current one from 90% to 65%, while keeping the increase in weight. All Assault Rifle users will be grateful for the change.

Pretty much this. ^

[Hud-X1Z]

Arveragus wrote...

vonSlash wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The Assault Rifle High-Velocity Barrel was never intended to increase weapon damage. We intended for it to be a heavier version of the existing penetration mod, so you get higher penetration for some extra weight. In hindsight, we should have called it something other than High-Velocity Barrel, as this seems to be leading to some confusion. We are looking into the possibility of renaming it.

It's a shame how shotguns, which are widely considered to be the best and most powerful of the existing five weapon classes, get a mod that combines the functionality of both the AP mod and the Extended Barrel in exchange for the same weight increase, while Assault Rifles, which are one of the worst (if not the worst) weapon class in the game get a mod that gives you negligible extra armor damage and cover penetration for the same weight cost.

If the Shotgun mod allows non-weight-centric builds to have their cake and eat it too, why should the Assault Rifles be any different, especially when they were already at a disadvantage to shotguns before the new mods were added?

Very true. So BioWare, just do the right thing. Keep the name High Velocity Barrel and give the Assault Rifles the same mod that it is for the Shotgun and Sniper Rifle: +25% damage and lessen the armor piercing properties of the current one from 90% to 65%, while keeping the increase in weight. All Assault Rifle users will be grateful for the change.

Hello,
Signed.

Greetings and have a nice day

[neteng101]

Arveragus wrote...

Very true. So BioWare, just do the right thing. Keep the name High Velocity Barrel and give the Assault Rifles the same mod that it is for the Shotgun and Sniper Rifle: +25% damage and lessen the armor piercing properties of the current one from 90% to 65%, while keeping the increase in weight. All Assault Rifle users will be grateful for the change.

I'm not sure if they can add it the damage now, this might require a patch unfortunately.

Why should ARs get robbed out of what SR/shotguns get?  Yes in the SMG there was no pen mod previously so that's understandable, but ARs already had one previously.

The solution for now to me is really to reduce the weight (that should be tweakable) to 0.25 instead of 0.5x weapon weight.  Or keep the 0.5x but allow extended barrel pairing/usage (though this does not make sense visually and may require a patch anyways).

[Rifneno]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Dunno if this has been said but...
HCB:
25% Damage boost

AP Mod:
1.10m Pierce
40% Redux
65% Armor Ignore

HVB:
1.35m Pierce
40% Redux
90% Armor Ignore
0.50 Weight Added

So...theoretically...you COULD:
Pierce 2.35 meters, at 80% reduced damage (?)
and ignore 155% of armors Damage Resistance...(Does that mean you could do 55% EXTRA damage to armor? or just Ignore armors DR?)

It'll just ignore DR, not provide extra damage.  And yes, the piercing stacks, but so what?  What the hell do you need to pierce nearly EIGHT FEET for?  When is that some noteworthy advantage?  Did I miss a mission where you have to shoot down an A-10?

[Valiantheart99]

TempoGTR wrote...

Also...it seems a lot of people are thinking about this from a solo point of view. While AP mod + EB gives you better overall damage in most cases, you're ignoring the use of teammates.

Most enemies can be controlled easily through abilities such as stasis. Armored units, not so much. In many cases, its better to increase your damage against armored targets to get them killed quicker. Even if you lose dps against other enemy types, those other enemies can be controlled much easier than armored targets. Having 1 squadmate designed specifically for killing armored targets can make things much easier.

I think maybe you are missing the point or didnt read the math on page 5.

The Extended Barrel+AP mod is better than the Heavy Velocity Barrel against armored opponents in every case except for 3 AR rifles on Gold (Avenger, Phaeston, GPR).  It out performs it in every situtation on silver or bronze.  And it is always the better combination against non armored opponents regardless of gun.  For 50 less weight.

[Rifneno]

Valiantheart99 wrote...

TempoGTR wrote...

Also...it seems a lot of people are thinking about this from a solo point of view. While AP mod + EB gives you better overall damage in most cases, you're ignoring the use of teammates.

Most enemies can be controlled easily through abilities such as stasis. Armored units, not so much. In many cases, its better to increase your damage against armored targets to get them killed quicker. Even if you lose dps against other enemy types, those other enemies can be controlled much easier than armored targets. Having 1 squadmate designed specifically for killing armored targets can make things much easier.

I think maybe you are missing the point or didnt read the math on page 5.

The Extended Barrel+AP mod is better than the Heavy Velocity Barrel against armored opponents in every case except for 3 AR rifles on Gold (Avenger, Phaeston, GPR).  It out performs it in every situtation on silver or bronze.  And it is always the better combination against non armored opponents regardless of gun.  For 50 less weight.

And one of the biggest benefits of those three guns is that they're so light.  This piece of crap mod completely negates that advantage.

I stick by the "this is a PPR only mod" stance.  I can't see a use for it on any other weapon.  Typhoon included.  And it's not even a big improvement over the piercing mod on the PPR.