25 réponses à ce sujet

[Nashimura]

Did anyone think they took to long to die? It seemed to added to the grind of the combat - im sure people died faster in Origins, they made the combat so much faster in DA2 then made the enemies take forever to put down. You could make the combat more lethal both ways to keep the challenge.

Modifié par Nashimura, 10 octobre 2012 - 06:07 .

[Teddie Sage]

Playing on Casual solves this problem.

[Sealy]

'd by Teddie.

My Hawke can usually clear a wave of baddies before his companions even catch up on casual. 

Modifié par Fleshdress, 10 octobre 2012 - 04:48 .

[Auintus]

I'd prefer a return to origins slower, smarter combat. Also, qunari were a pain to put down in origins, but fell like flies in DA2. The Qunari invasion should have been the most difficult part of the game.
Back on topic, I believe the devs mentioned that they are hoping to make combat more strategic, so I'm thinking we'll have fewer enemies, but they'll be tougher, with slower combat.
All and all, it depends on the combat speed.

[MichaelStuart]

Yes, enemies took too long to die.
Combat in my opinion should not last more than a minute, unless it is a boss fight.
I did play on Nightmare, but having a enemy take 5 minutes to kill does not make it harder, just repetitive.

[Wulfram]

When the game was released, the higher ranked enemies were a bit of a grind, but they cut their hitpoints quite a bit in a patch, and now they're plenty quick - a bit too fast in some cases.

If you're not using combos then they'll go slower of course..

[h0neanias]

Some of them definitely should. I'm all for difficult fights, but the DA system tends to make them grindier than they should be sometimes. It becomes a real problem in DA2 when fighting the Bone Pit dragon -- Merril's "Just die already, blighter!" and "This is tiring... I'm tiring!" were my thoughts exactly.

[Massakkolia]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Playing on Casual solves this problem.

Sure, but it also makes the game so easy that it's hard to get any enjoyment out of the battle system. A fight can be difficult and reasonably short at the same time. Especially boss fights in DA2 were tiresome. I just ended up repeating the same thing again and again waiting for the enemy to fall. That's not tactical or exciting, that's just grinding. 

I'd rather they increased the variety. Especially bosses should have distinctively different (relatively short) phases which require different tactics. Also, the wave system must go. Give me one wave of clever enemies instead of five waves of boredom.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Stabbing someone a gacheezelions times also ruins imurshun. They should instead increase the rate at which enemies block and evade blows. I'm talking about mooks and human enemies anyway. I'm fine with a dozen arrows sticking out of an ogre

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

I thought that the regular fights were fine, except for the ever spawning waves of enemies, but the Orsino and Meredith fights were just too quick. If it is a normal fight I don't think it should take that long, but if it is a boss fight I think they should take a little longer.

[Nashimura]

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

Stabbing someone a gacheezelions times also ruins imurshun. They should instead increase the rate at which enemies block and evade blows. I'm talking about mooks and human enemies anyway. I'm fine with a dozen arrows sticking out of an ogre

I always thought it was strange too, a system in a game called "Brothers in Arms" which i have only played a demo of had the damage indicator showing how close you were to getting shot then the one that does hit killed you. Something like that would improve Dragon Age, nothing really hitting clean until the life gauge hits zero then you impale them with the last.

Modifié par Nashimura, 10 octobre 2012 - 06:14 .

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Rpgfantasyplayer wrote...

I thought that the regular fights were fine, except for the ever spawning waves of enemies, but the Orsino and Meredith fights were just too quick. If it is a normal fight I don't think it should take that long, but if it is a boss fight I think they should take a little longer.

I think that can mesh with my "idea", the bosses will be more skilled and therefore harder to hit. Cause really, being a badass doesn't mean you can walk around with swords coming through the other side of you, they're just human/dwarf/whatevs

[Boss Fog]

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

Stabbing someone a gacheezelions times also ruins imurshun. They should instead increase the rate at which enemies block and evade blows. I'm talking about mooks and human enemies anyway. I'm fine with a dozen arrows sticking out of an ogre

Not only this, to make up for it they should increase the amount of damage enemies take so it doesn't seem like we're wailing on a brick wall and just waiting for it to fall over.  I think they should also give enemies more opportunities to regain health just like the PC and the companions.  If the enemies your facing include a few warriors/rogues and a mage; it'd be nice for some mages to actually heal their teammates as opposed to just standing there letting them get torn to shreds.

Modifié par TelvanniWarlord, 10 octobre 2012 - 06:21 .

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Playing on Casual solves this problem.

[Wozearly]

I don't think faster combat pace is necessary against lower level enemies - in many cases, grunt enemies were so easily put down even from the early game stages that it was slightly laughable...and as a result, lieutenant+ enemies were given the higher HP pools to add challenge (although in most cases, it merely added grind).

Personally, I'd prefer a greater mix of combat lengths whilst retaining the (relative) variety of types of engagement. Bringing back outright evasion and blocking in a bigger capacity and dropping (or at least vastly limiting) the glancing blows system would be a useful change. TelvanniWarlord's suggestion of allowing enemies an element of health regeneration (even if not identical to the player's) would also be an interesting twist.

Doing that would also allow for more obvious variety in tactics against a skilled boss-level opponent (focus shifts to boosting chance to hit / reducing enemy defence and attempting to end the encounter more swiftly), versus a HP heavy boss-level opponent with regen abilities (focus being on upping damage output and self-defence, as the encounter is far more likely to be drawn out).

Going back to a more Origins-like damage output for the party for the majority of the game would also help, as some of the daft enemy setups in DA2 were a direct result of the attempt to cope with the party having incredibly impressive damage abilities.

"Every time you push a button, something awesome happens" just needs to be nudged back to its original concept of being about responsiveness and the effect being meaningful, not necessarily "Every time you push a button, you dramatically imbalance the gameplay between your party and your opposition, meaning we have to boost up the HP pool to stop you facerolling through all combat sequences".

[Conniving_Eagle]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Playing on Casual solves this problem.

I've always been in favor of a customizable difficulty option. They can still include presets, but players should be able to determine Enemy Damage and HP, Player Damage and HP, and perhaps even some AI aspects.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 10 octobre 2012 - 06:46 .

[Nashimura]

No, play on casual is not an answer. The bosses still take an age and others still can take some doing to put down. The combat can be make more exicting if both sides had less health.

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Nashimura wrote...

Did anyone think they took to long to die? It seemed to added to the grind of the combat - im sure people died faster in Origins, they made the combat so much faster in DA2 then made the enemies take forever to put down. You could make the combat more lethal both ways to keep the challenge.

Honestly? When I was playing DA2 on casual, there were instances where relatively weak enemies would be on the last shred of life in their health bar and Hawke and her companions are all throwing hits at once - and this enemy isn't going down. It's still walking around, shooting magic or taking melee shots at people.

I was convinced it was a bug. It didn't happen a lot but it happened enough to confuse me. The enemy was weak (and not resistant to anything) and getting hit with every kind of move, but it wouldn't go down. It was some kind of weird lag.

I thought it was a bug too, pretty annoying....definitely when there is loot close or you have to trigger something and he just wont go down.

Modifié par Nashimura, 10 octobre 2012 - 06:47 .

[thats1evildude]

Yeah, that was a bug. Oddly enough, if you just left them alone for a few seconds, they would just die.

[Arthur Cousland]

Enemies died fast enough for me.  My warrior can easily put the hurt on enemies with cleave+mighty blow+scythe+whirlwind, which usually leaves a pile of bodies behind afterwards.  My archer with speed+primeval lyrium rune looks like he's shooting enemies with a machine gun.  Elites and bosses don't need to die any faster, as they are where the challenge comes from.

I like battles where I have to plan ahead and put some actual thought into what I'm doing.  Fast battles and glass enemies=boring for me.  The Qunari are one of my favorite enemy types to fight because they actually have some health and put up a fight.

I would also love if enemy mages actually healed their allies instead of just casting offensive spells while everyone else is being torn to pieces.  Mages in Origins would occasionally use heal spells, glyphs, paralyze and etc., which I would like to see return for DA3.

Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 10 octobre 2012 - 07:13 .

[Nashimura]

I dont see how making the fights longer makes them harder when you have health potions that top you up instantly. There was some bosses that barely even harm you and you have to just hit it for what feels like forever with no chance of dying...thats not fun, not for me.

[Wozearly]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I think the problem is AI, artificial intelligent, the enemies are stupid, they attack and wait to be killed, therefore their health points must be high and have armor rating. That is the challenge the game give you.

Why not make the enemy is smart, they dodge attacks, parry attacks, run away make a space, changing tactic, drinking potion, team work with other enemies like making combo attacks and such, ect...that is the real challenge

I am bored with steroid enemies, a boss is a boss just because it have 4 millions hit points and 4 millions damage points. Boring. To defeat them is to reduce their hit points and dodge or can take the heavy damage it give while it just doing the very same thing i can read it.

There's no reason, in principle, that the AI can't have access to the same default tactical engine that the player's party can use, or the same variety of ability effects. Including cross-class combos.

Having them use space or visibly change party-level tactics to a level that the player would recognise as effective is probably beyond the realistic expectations of AI programming for the moment.

But there's no reason they couldn't adapt their default 'personal' tactical behaviour based on their opponent (e.g. defence-lowering abilities on tanks, evasive stun-and-skirmish vs DPS) and be more opportunistic with their selected target (e.g. my target is stunned, therefore increase the chance that I use my ability that causes greater damage to stunned opponents).

They could also be vicious if given a 'party-style' tactical setup;

MobA: I see the player party's healing specialisation mage is at <25% health. I have a ranged stun, so I prioritise stunning him.

MobB: I see the player party's healing specialisation mage is at <25% health and stunned and at short-medium range to me. I disengage from my target and use the heftiest melee damage ability I have on the mage.

MobA: And the mage is down. Get in! Picking a new target.

MobC: Arrrrgh! PC just pressed an awesome button and my health is <10%

MobD: MobC now priority heal target for me...there ya go.

Hawke (for it is he): WTF?!? Mage is down, the AI's healing people who get hit by my SuperStrikeOfBBQPWN, an Ogre's chasing Fenris around the room and the rest are all ganging up on me. No fair! They're only supposed to be cannon fodder...

Anguished player: What? No way! Hawke's dead

DA2 critic: Thank the maker...

Modifié par Wozearly, 10 octobre 2012 - 07:26 .

[Overlord_Mephist]

I think enemies should have more self respect and not go down on just anyone.

Personally I'd like to see mobs that summon pillars of fire/energy that kill you for standing on em, a 25stage dragon fight wherein said dragon fires death beams from his eyes that destroys all your gear and autosaves the game.

But thats just me

[Arthur Cousland]

Nashimura wrote...

I dont see how making the fights longer makes them harder when you have health potions that top you up instantly. There was some bosses that barely even harm you and you have to just hit it for what feels like forever with no chance of dying...thats not fun, not for me.

If enemies take that long to kill, then increase the damage dealt from your party.  Use cross-class combos and spells that reduce the enemy's defense, like the entropy spells.  If your party has a 100% critical hit rate, then they should be killing plenty fast.  The only enemy boss that seemed like it took a while to defeat was the high dragon, and that was because they liked to fly away and move around.  I've had plenty of battles as an archer rogue where a boss enemy goes down quick, including the high dragon, and I'm thinking afterward, "Wtf just happened?".  When boss fights end quickly, they feel a bit anti-climatic for me and leave me wanting more.  Just because I have all of these awesome talents at my disposal, I don't want enemies falling over dead from me snapping my fingers.

There are topics on the character build forums that go on about optimized builds and speed runs.  It's all about how you build your characters.

Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 10 octobre 2012 - 07:33 .