3 réponses à ce sujet

[CBGB]

I'm baffled to read about the attraction of Zevran. I'm not arguing: everyone has her own preferences. I'm just seeking a little explanation.

In Threads like this, I see a number of women and female characters find Zevran attractive, when I mistakenly figured his primary vibe would be 'sleazy.'

I do understand that preferences vary, and that men don't always understand what women like, even when they think they do. And I hear this, too:

ejoslin wrote...
And anyone who thinks a guy is sleazy just because he hits on you immediately hasn't known too many guys! 

But the instant, perpetual, and indiscriminate interest in bedding everyone seems a poor formula for making the main character feel valued.

He reminds me of a high-school friend whose similar good traits - a sense of a humor and delicate good looks - were overshadowed by his habit of lobbing compliments too clunky to disguise their sexual intent. Girls looked at him like a dog in need of neutering.

Oddly, that same friend is now staggeringly successful as a flirt with nearly the opposite approach, a tendency toward Morrigan-like challenges. Not all women want the same thing, of course, but I believe he never found any who liked his eager-beaver style... the same one employed by Zevran.



I'm a writer, and I've misread him. I missed an appeal Zevran must have, and I'd like to understand it better. What makes him click with you, if he does?

Modifié par CBGB, 29 décembre 2009 - 10:45 .

[David Gaider]

caldur06 wrote...
I was extremely unimpressed with him overall. he had no unique storyline, no effect on the plot, no unique model, armor, or even hair. everything about him felt carefully tailored to be utterly forgettable and completely nonthreatening to the straight guys playing (even down to Zevran trumpeting his sexuality for the world to see), because he confroms to every preconcieved notion available of what a gay/bi guy should be. I don't necessarily hate him because he's too sleazy, immature, or flamboyant. I hate him because of everything that he represents.

Hmm.

Well, I guess everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Zevran certainly wasn't "chosen" to be bisexual, he was created that way from the outset. He's also not meant to represent all gay or bisexual people... he was just a fun, flirty character that I thought might be interesting to try, and that some people might appreciate as something a little different. If you were looking for a political statement, or choose to look on the inclusion of a bisexual romance that's not to your taste as an insult, I guess that's up to you.

[David Gaider]

caldur06 wrote...
Oh wow. I didn't expect the writers to really be glancing this deep in a thread. If I offended, I'm sorry, reading back I realize my tone was pretty harsh, and I truly do wish I'd started out more even-toned. Anyways, I know that any insult was definitely not intentional, and that you (of all people) don't have one specific stereotype of glbt people (yeah, I bought the book!). I don't want a political statement and I'm not looking for a fight where there's none to be had! It's just that the, well, for want of a better term, Depraved Bisexual (and I swear I didn't even know Zevran's name was on there till I glanced at it just now) is a terribly common trope, and one that annoys me pretty much because it is so commonplace.

I'm not sure I agree with the term "depraved", but either way I'm not so certain it's commonplace. While that site calls them tropes the fact of the matter is there is a giant list of them -- so many, in fact, that you couldn't help but assign a great many of them to just about every creative work produced. Those are just simple categories.

If one wants to break down a character or a plot into generalizations so that they fit into a category, that's fine by me. You can do that for almost anything, however, and considering you'd need to simply disregard anything about that character or plot which doesn't match the category I'm not sure it's that helpful.

Zevran isn't a psychotic killer by any means, though he is an assassin. Part of the inspiration, if you must know, came from a report I read about some modern spy agencies preferring to recruit homosexuals as assassins because they typically do not form long-term relationships (which add complication to their existence). I wondered how this might make that person feel, and what would happen to someone that lived that way and suddenly found themselves falling in love -- something their entire existence tells them is a bad idea.

Is he thin? Sure. He's an elf, and they all have the same body. Is he bisexual because he's an elf? Not at all -- the choice to make him an elf came from his background... in some ways he's a victim of his circumstances, which are pretty bad for all elves, and instead of whining about it he's rolled with the punches. He's amoral, but I'm not sure that assassin-with-a-heart-of-gold would somehow be better in terms of breaking stereotypes. His sexuality is part of what he is, but it doesn't define him -- should it? A lot of what he is comes from him being an assassin. If we made every decision regarding his character about his sexuality alone, wouldn't that define the very essence of a stereotype?

I get being sensitive about the portrayal of the LGBT community -- boy, do I -- but suggesting that someone like Zevran must go completely against type or it's offensive is laying some pretty heavy expectations on him. Like I said, for my part I was just happy that we got to include some content for a very small audience -- something we don't normally get to do. I wanted to make him fun and flirty, and certainly didn't think that anything that made him appear less than butch or didn't go against type in every way might be construed as offensive. Considering the number of thankful emails I'm received from LGBT players who did enjoy him I don't really think I was so off the mark. 

Also, the epilogue telling me that Zevran followed his Grey Warden wherever she went (my character was male) just made me frown, and wonder who his new lady friend was.

That is an unfortunate bug in the ending (one of many, I understand) -- which I thought should be obvious, no? Unless the implication is that we would purposefully exclude a gay male player after an entire game of inclusion? Doesn't that strike you as a bit odd?

Modifié par David Gaider, 28 janvier 2010 - 05:53 .

[David Gaider]

caldur06 wrote...
*ahem* Sorry? 

*waves little Zevran flag* 

Well I hope you're not just saying that because I interjected. I'm fully aware that not every character I write is going to be liked by everyone -- especially the romances, which are so subject to personal taste. But if you were persuaded to look at Zevran again with an open mind and enjoyed him, then I'm glad. It's not every day I see someone actually change their mind on the internet.