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[Raiynsong]

Kudos on 100 pages --- and on Valentine's Day, too

[Sabriana]

Over the 100 mark. Yay us.

I find it so funny (in the comical and strange meaning), that people have no problem with Leliana while dissing Zevran over the very first encounter.

Personally, I was very, very, put off by her when she told my PC how much she enjoyed the hunting of men for the purpose of killing them, the seductions, the manipulations, the power. She says this with so much joy and happiness in face and voice that my PC (and I) shuddered in revulsion.

Zevran never goes there. As a matter of fact, when the PC ask about "killing innocents" he at some point says "I console myself with..." clearly indicating that he does indeed feel guilty.

What else do you get from him? Let's see.

"I've had to do many bad things in my life.." and

"I regret so much more than the women and men in my life..." or how about

"Choose? I never had a choice in my life, all choices were always made for me."

"I ask for forgiveness whenever I can." (Zevran/Alistair convo)

His life before and with the Crows? Hmm, let's see about this one.

"A massage technique I learned in the wh**rehouse." Remember, he was sold at age 7. Put that together and wince.

"Those who did not survive the training, died" or

"I never had much choice in the matter, I was bought at age 7 for 3 sovereigns."

"We were all packed into that apartment. Like crates."

However, the reason my HN let him live after the encounter was her listening to the very first words out of his mouth:
"I rather thought I'd wake up dead, or not wake up at all." He didn't expect to survive, is what that line told my PC. She was suspicious about the whole "our wagons were attacked" right from the start. The whole set-up had me thinking 'do they actually want to fail?' Lo and behold, later on she finds out that Zevran did indeed wished to fail. Suicide by Grey Warden.

No, I wasn't spoiled at all. No Interwebs for a month all during my first play-through. I was a regular on the old forum Zevfangirl thread, but we knew nothing definite, of course.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana, on the wh*rehouse thing, here's another dialog to give you pause. The boots are a more personal gift for him, higher approval, and the answer for that is revealed in a dialog I guess no one ever takes.



That apartment, the first one, he has very fond memories of. It was the first place he lived out of the wh*rehouse. Even though it stank to high heaven, it was the first time he could actually be a kid.



I think the funniest thing about people who rag on Zevran miss the fact that he would be the absolute last person to feel sorry for himself. He is the ultimate survivor. He doesn't blame his life for what he is -- what he is is truly all he knows. Given a chance, he wants to change, wants a different life.



Dialog spoiler:



Warden: Really, you smell a cesspool and it reminds you of home?

Zevran: It reminds me of all the idle pleasures I got up to in that little apartment... but yes, it's true. There is no accounting for love.

[Sabriana]

True enough. He never had that chance before, not like Leliana who did have a choice, and grew up in a rich household.

When the first real chance to escape comes along in the form of the PC, he sees it and asks her to help him achieve freedom. "I never had the chance. I was bought at age 7 and I think I have paid them off tenfold for their investment." How can you not hear his longing for freedom in that and other dialogue.

I don't understand how people seem to have 'too much trouble' to get him at least in the 'warm' zone, if they are not romancing him. He'll stay and he'll fight for the PC at 'warm'. He'll leave up to a higher point if romanced (and to be honest, I never really understood why. Shouldn't he be helping her instead? Or is he still in so much denial?)

But he'll not turn on the PC either way. The PC will have to be all kinds of nasty to him to not get approval. He's an easy-going and forgiving guy, actually.

[ejoslin]

Heh, the trouble of getting Zevran high enough:

Ask about Antiva. Be decent, not rude.
Ask about the Dalish: Be decent, not rude

Give gloves: +12
Give boots: +16
Give 1 bar: +8

Boom, no betrayal. Hard work! If you were rude in any of these conversations, give the other two bars. If you have further conversations with him, and you don't suck up but are not rude, give another bar, all is good.

Edit: I forgot, if you go slaughtering innocents around Zevran, you may have to do a little more sucking up.  He doesn't like siding with Cullen or with the werewolves or with the slavers, though the slavers happens later on in the game so I suppose isn't relevant.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 février 2010 - 03:36 .

[Sabriana]

Really, it's so simple, and no, you don't have to kiss anything of his to get approval. Just don't be mean and nasty, be polite. Heck, all the other companions will drop chunks of approval if the PC is mean, rude, and nasty. However, Zevran better not dare be offended by a rude and nasty PC.

[Addai]

I think people must be just giving him the gifts and never talking to him. That will not get you out of neutral, probably (I don't have the math handy but going on what people say). Or they stop talking to him with a few -1's for less-than-complimentary replies about being an assassin, and don't bother with other topics or trying to talk to him again after his approval is higher.



And now a mini-squee: My elf mage got the "Do you stare at everyone like that?" line last night. I've never noticed it before, so hadn't heard that reply. Whee! Of course, now he's staring luridly... I just can't not turn on that romance, it seems. Alistair is wily, too. I swear, the voice director told Steve Valentine to make "Something you need?" spoken in the sexiest, most velvet tone he could.

[ejoslin]

The staring line is the romance starter that you can use even once you're out of dialog, like Alistair's "Has anyone ever told you how handsome you are." It will appear at +27 warm and stay unless you shut the romance off entirely.

Heh, I like that one though. "Let us continue on . . . with you in front of course!"

Edit: I wonder.  You do have to talk to anyone to get them to the next level of affection.  I wonder if you got him up to +40, without the conversation, he would stay neutral and still betray you.  It makes sense, actually.

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 février 2010 - 04:11 .

[jenovan]

Happy page 101, everyone! XD

Seriously, Zevran is probably the EASIEST companion to win approval from, by just being decent to him.   Alistair's not difficult, but his approval gains are small.  Zevran seems to really respond to the idea of camaraderie or friendship, let alone love.

I do think that the whole thing about him leaving the Taliesen fight when in a romance with the PC might have to do with conflicted feelings... a la Rinna.


And now for some new content. T_T  I was feeling detached last night, sooo I spent some time trying different ways and times of breaking up with Zevran. </3  Gah, how utterly painful.  The only other character I've dumped is Morrigan, who is angry when you do so (even though she tries to push you away once she hits love! Make up your mind, woman!)... Zevran is just devastated.

Just to be truly mean, I tried breaking up with him after the Taliesen encounter, after the proposal, everything... ack.  We talk around here about how Zevran never really says he loves the PC, but... sometimes he does.

*dialogue spoiler*


PC: We need to end this.
Zevran: I... I see. I am... tempted to ask why, but I suspect I already know the answer.

Zevran: Well.  Let it never be said that Zevran remains where he is not wanted.  Taliesen is dead, and so perhaps this is as good a time as any to make my good-byes, yes?
PC: If that's what you want to do.
Zevran: It is, I think.  I... would rather be elsewhere.  Anywhere rather than here.
Zevran: Fare you well, my love.  And good luck.

The "anywhere rather than here" killed me. Ahh, man.   But then for him to say "my love"... ::stabbed::   Thank goodness for the ability to test these things out and then forget about doing them ever, ever again. T____T

Sad Zevran is sad.

[Sabriana]

I wouldn't know that. I did it with Wynne, who is really starting to go on my nerves. No conversation, just gifts, and she did reach the 'warm' state.
Could be different with the love interests, though. Gah! Now I wonder too.
Alistair is a sweet boy, and his VA is certainly blessed with a sexy voice. However, I do wish the line "something you need, my dear" was not there. It's so, well, off-putting, at least to me.

By the way, is there a reason given anywhere why he leaves his love-interest to fight alone, but stays for the friend at the same approval rate? I've been trying to figure it out, but because he never did that to my PC, I haven't much of a clue.

*is jealous because Addai got the 'stare' line*

Edited to pat-pat Jenovan.

There, there. Thank goodness for F5. I love that conversation. I'm glad I could read it and didn't have to do it myself. Thank you for sacrificing yourself, Jenovan

Modifié par Sabriana, 14 février 2010 - 04:23 .

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

Happy page 101, everyone! XD

Seriously, Zevran is probably the EASIEST companion to win approval from, by just being decent to him.   Alistair's not difficult, but his approval gains are small.  Zevran seems to really respond to the idea of camaraderie or friendship, let alone love.

I do think that the whole thing about him leaving the Taliesen fight when in a romance with the PC might have to do with conflicted feelings... a la Rinna.


And now for some new content. T_T  I was feeling detached last night, sooo I spent some time trying different ways and times of breaking up with Zevran. </3  Gah, how utterly painful.  The only other character I've dumped is Morrigan, who is angry when you do so (even though she tries to push you away once she hits love! Make up your mind, woman!)... Zevran is just devastated.

Just to be truly mean, I tried breaking up with him after the Taliesen encounter, after the proposal, everything... ack.  We talk around here about how Zevran never really says he loves the PC, but... sometimes he does.

*dialogue spoiler*


PC: We need to end this.
Zevran: I... I see. I am... tempted to ask why, but I suspect I already know the answer.

Zevran: Well.  Let it never be said that Zevran remains where he is not wanted.  Taliesen is dead, and so perhaps this is as good a time as any to make my good-byes, yes?
PC: If that's what you want to do.
Zevran: It is, I think.  I... would rather be elsewhere.  Anywhere rather than here.
Zevran: Fare you well, my love.  And good luck.

The "anywhere rather than here" killed me. Ahh, man.   But then for him to say "my love"... ::stabbed::   Thank goodness for the ability to test these things out and then forget about doing them ever, ever again. T____T

Sad Zevran is sad.

Bad memory, my friend.  Bad memory.  I've done this twice -- once to see, and the other to confirm, a few weeks later, if it was as bad as I remembered.  I am not even clicking on that link.  It is the most heartbreaking thing in the game.

[AndreaDraco]

@ Jenovan: agh! Heart-breaking! I could never do that

[Addai]

Sabriana wrote...
Alistair is a sweet boy, and his VA is certainly blessed with a sexy voice. However, I do wish the line "something you need, my dear" was not there. It's so, well, off-putting, at least to me.

That is what he switches to when he's in love, and yes, it's much colder and more detached than his starting greeting when he's neutral with you!  I meant the starting one.

There, there. Thank goodness for F5. I love that conversation. I'm glad I could read it and didn't have to do it myself. Thank you for sacrificing yourself, Jenovan

Agreed, it is painful enough just to read and I'm sure the voice and facial expression is wrenching.  You're brave, jenovan.  I'm such a spineless mass of jelly for all of these characters.  I don't mind pissing them off on occasion, but to destroy them, as this does... not even for science.

[Cuddlezarro]

ok I honestly am so totally Glad for the Zevran romance in my Dwarf Casteless playthrough at the moment

poor Baren Brosca has such a hard time keeping friends its ridiculous, he aint an inherently bad person despite his upbringing but almost every one he cares about in his life has either tried to kill him(Leske, Leliena, Shale) or ended up hating him (Alistair)

currently Zevran, his Sister, Oghren and his Dog are the only people who havnt tried to turn on him Im so glad nothing bad seems to happen to your sister because if something did he would pretty much be like Zevran if you sacrifice yourself and while romancing him

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 14 février 2010 - 04:55 .

[Sabriana]

Lol @ Cuddlezarro. You had me there for a second. I thought you were stating that Zevran had a sister. Perhaps I should go and make dinner. It is, after all, 6 P.M. here.

[ejoslin]

My husband does not play DA:O. He tried it, said it reminded him of playing a movie, and went back to whatever FPS he's been playing. So of course, I had to ask him what he thought about the Zevran story, giving him a few details, and his opinion whether Zevran was falling in love the entire time, or fell in love after Taliesen. He really is very much a typical guy, so his answer surprised me. He thought it was funny that there was even any question that Zevran was falling in love. I made him listen to the before and after tent scene dialogs, and he stuck by what he said -- if Zevran was willing to tell a story that he would only tell someone he considered his closest friend, that he was falling in love. Sex doesn't equal trust, caring does.



Then he told me to stop playing the stupid game so much and so I figured it was time to quit asking him questions.

[Sabriana]

Which particular story? I seem to be cursed by thick-headedness at the moment.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Which particular story? I seem to be cursed by thick-headedness at the moment.

Rinna.  He will only tell that story at 71 adore or at 91 friendly (he won't tell it at 91 warm -- if friendzone, he won't tell it until after Taliesen).

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 février 2010 - 05:24 .

[Jaulen]

ejoslin: *laughs* What? Stop playing the game? Maker forbid! Stopping asking question....much easier and saner.



@ Jenovan: I did that that convo tree after figuring I had f'd up the romance, and he gave the same lines. I will admit, I was more 'heartbroken' "OH MY GOD, reload!!!!!" than I was my first playthrough and the blindside breakup from Alistair.





Okay, quick question, I was playing around with the after Talsien encounter....and since my PC had turned him down for the tent scene....she askes him back to tent, he says no he doesn't want to talk about it, so she leaves him alone.

Goes and does something else, came back, asked, "Something seems different" he goes into his talk, reoffers the earring.....gets the 'proposal' end to conversation. Accepts the earring

Goes and does something else (still no tent scene with Zevran). Asked him back to tent and get the "So does something need assasinating?" Went through that tree, did the tent scene and the AS convo is the same as if you accept the massage scene...

Is it supposed to be different?

Becasue here he's just given you an earring, admited as much as he seems he's going to that he cares for you, you talk him into the tent, and then he's all back to "this means nothing more than you want it to" attitude.



Did I do something wrong?

(Didn't save until I checked in with you guys)

[Sabriana]

Oh, that story. Of course. I really should get something to eat, my head seems to be empty. I more or less was trying to think of any conversation line after the tent (directly after) that was particularly sensitive.

[Sabriana]

I'll probably be ninja'd, but isn't he supposed to say "I'll be with you to the end." in the vanilla game?

[ejoslin]

Jaulen wrote...

ejoslin: *laughs* What? Stop playing the game? Maker forbid! Stopping asking question....much easier and saner.

@ Jenovan: I did that that convo tree after figuring I had f'd up the romance, and he gave the same lines. I will admit, I was more 'heartbroken' "OH MY GOD, reload!!!!!" than I was my first playthrough and the blindside breakup from Alistair.


Okay, quick question, I was playing around with the after Talsien encounter....and since my PC had turned him down for the tent scene....she askes him back to tent, he says no he doesn't want to talk about it, so she leaves him alone.
Goes and does something else, came back, asked, "Something seems different" he goes into his talk, reoffers the earring.....gets the 'proposal' end to conversation. Accepts the earring
Goes and does something else (still no tent scene with Zevran). Asked him back to tent and get the "So does something need assasinating?" Went through that tree, did the tent scene and the AS convo is the same as if you accept the massage scene...
Is it supposed to be different?
Becasue here he's just given you an earring, admited as much as he seems he's going to that he cares for you, you talk him into the tent, and then he's all back to "this means nothing more than you want it to" attitude.

Did I do something wrong?
(Didn't save until I checked in with you guys)

No, unfortunately, it's the same unless you have Dialog Tweaks installed.  It surprises me too, especially seeing as there are different choices for the tent refusal if you haven't been to the tent yet.  So pretend it was nicer  He's admitted he's in love, he wants to marry you . . . all is good!

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

I'll probably be ninja'd, but isn't he supposed to say "I'll be with you to the end." in the vanilla game?

No, that's Dialog Tweaks unfortunately.  It clearly doesn't fit there -- but it's nicer than the vanilla game.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Oh, that story. Of course. I really should get something to eat, my head seems to be empty. I more or less was trying to think of any conversation line after the tent (directly after) that was particularly sensitive.

Ooooh, no, I was trying to get his opinion whether it really WAS casual, given those dialogs rather than me just telling him the story which admittedly would have a bias there.

[Jaulen]

Okay good to know.
But thankfully that WTH moment after the tent scene made me actually go to bed last night. otherwise I probably would have stayed up all night finishing as much of the game as I could since today is a no DA:O game-playing day.

I'll have to download the diologue tweaks then. Questions (this is my first time playing a PC game) if you install a mod partway through the game, does it mess up the game at all?
I did the tweaks for the Alistair convos and the epilogues. Is the Diologue Tweaks you reference different?

EDIT: Just noticed, my poor PC avatar is missing eyebrows!

Modifié par Jaulen, 14 février 2010 - 05:38 .