35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Sannox]

UpiH wrote...

G'morn!

Mommy and Poppa went to disco

Cute . 

Oh, top of page.   Hold on a minute.  (*struggles with picture links and stuff ...*  I fail at showing Deviant Art pictures.)

Modifié par Sannox, 01 mai 2010 - 11:35 .

[Aroihkin]

I have no idea who I might be trying to make, now that I just realized how to start a new morph. Nope, no idea at all. Certainly not Alley's pretty brother. Nu. What would give anyone that idea?

And look! You can't cut glass with his cheekbones or use his chin as a ship anchor! I may be able to play dudes on this game yet.

Modifié par Aroihkin, 01 mai 2010 - 11:28 .

[Sannox]

It would be great if you could put those tattoos on him.

[Aroihkin]

Sannox wrote...

It would be great if you could put those tattoos on him.

Nah, those are only from one of his versions.




I think I've got him as close as I dare try to get him, now if only the male hair choices weren't so crappy, hahaha.

Modifié par Aroihkin, 01 mai 2010 - 11:50 .

[Creature 1]

Tellervo wrote...

Sresla wrote...

If I might too request the shower, please. Also for research. Expensive research.

The first two there?  Those are... yeah.  Photoreference, I swear.

My abilities as an art critic are validated. 

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

But even if he was just about sex, so what? I do take the point that when you meet him you have no way of knowing how loyal and devoted he will be. But even if you don't see the romance through, I don't see anything wrong with a bit of sexual relief between battles.

I think he's pretty straightforward about the sex. He likes it, he thinks you'll like it (if you flirt back), he's used to people wanting to have sex with him, and used to offering it. He's the only character who does it offer it freely like that, which is in his favour. He will fall in love with you, but you have no obligation to fall in love with him, or offer him anything.

(Even towards the end of the romance, the only thing he ever asks you to do is to accept his gift of his earring).

And anyway, generally (although not always, by any means) that's how relationships develop in real life - starting with sexual attraction and sex, and the love developing out of that. 

He does ask one more thing of the warden, actually, at the end, though yes, the offering of the earring is very charged.  For the warden to love him the way he loves the warden.  If the warden doesn't return his feelings, if the warden doesn't promise a future of some sort together, he breaks up with them.

Edit: Earlier in the relationship as well, BEFORE you can go to the tent, he gets it very clear what the relationship is.  Is it friendship only (romance cut off), is it unsure (romance not started, no tent allowed), is it friends with benefits, or is it a fairly committed relationship?  YES, he is the ONLY companion who, as low as +26, will ask if you two will have a future together after the blight.  If you tell him, "I would like that," when he asks, he answers, "So would I, I should think." 

He will break up with the warden for a few reasons.  The one I stated above, also if the warden is not accepting of his sexual past.  He wants to be accepted, but he is HONEST and doesn't pretend to be something he's not to please the warden.  

Second edit: If you go the route where you get the proposal of a sort, if you tell him a proposal is too much, it doesn't matter that you promised him a future, that you basically have told him you love him; he will still break up with the warden.  It's something he wants, but moreso, he doesn't want to be in a relationship where it's not 100% both ways.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 mai 2010 - 02:20 .

[UpiH]

G'morn, ejoslin.



Here's a morning workout, just for ya.



*Runs*

[ejoslin]

UpiH wrote...

G'morn, ejoslin.

Here's a morning workout, just for ya.

*Runs*

Ahahahahaha   Morning!  

[UpiH]

It's not like that poster really wants any insight on the character; his (?) mind is set, his attitudes and opinions are written to a stone. I found it difficult to even try reasoning that kind of approach. Why does he insist in coming back to this thread, I've no idea.

[ejoslin]

UpiH wrote...
It's not like that poster really wants any insight on the character; his (?) mind is set, his attitudes and opinions are written to a stone. I found it difficult to even try reasoning that kind of approach. Why does he insist in coming back to this thread, I've no idea.

No, there are a lot of people who don't get it.  They think Alistair is the only male romance who is serious and falls in love and treats the FemWarden with respect and can't stand the thought that Zevran may actually be the one who is more committed in the end (this is not a dig at Alistair; has king he does not have the same freedoms).  

I found it interesting that things he thought were negative against the warden were things I considered positive.  The flirting with Morrigan -- this is something the Warden is in on (the bet can be with the warden, depending on who's in the party).  Zevran doesn't flirt with the warden with tons of empty flattery -- but he does make it clear through party banter that he IS interested in the warden.

Sabriana (I believe) did this comparison between Alistair and Zevran once.

Wynne: (Chuckles) You were watching her. With great interest, I might add. In fact, I believe you were...enraptured.
Alistair: She's our leader. I look to her for guidance.

Shale: I have noticed that the painted elf seeks the attention of the Grey Warden.
Zevran: He certainly does.

Edit: Zevran changes a great deal whether as a lover or a friend, but even when he's at "adore" he is completely devoted.  But he does fall in love, as we all know, and it's a love that is incredibly intense.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 mai 2010 - 02:38 .

[UpiH]

But maybe he's just upset because of the fact, Zevran will hit on you regardless of your gender or mad at the blatant sexual innuendo? Well, for male characters, turning the romance part off isn't a big deal, you'll end up with a minor approval increase regardless.

I play male characters, and I've never even tried to romance him. He is a complete, well written companion even without any romantic notion. Getting to know all your companions and using them at their full potential makes the game replayability pretty high.

Modifié par UpiH, 01 mai 2010 - 02:58 .

[Sannox]

ejoslin wrote...

Sannox wrote...

But even if he was just about sex, so what? I do take the point that when you meet him you have no way of knowing how loyal and devoted he will be. But even if you don't see the romance through, I don't see anything wrong with a bit of sexual relief between battles.

I think he's pretty straightforward about the sex. He likes it, he thinks you'll like it (if you flirt back), he's used to people wanting to have sex with him, and used to offering it. He's the only character who does it offer it freely like that, which is in his favour. He will fall in love with you, but you have no obligation to fall in love with him, or offer him anything.

(Even towards the end of the romance, the only thing he ever asks you to do is to accept his gift of his earring).

And anyway, generally (although not always, by any means) that's how relationships develop in real life - starting with sexual attraction and sex, and the love developing out of that. 

He does ask one more thing of the warden, actually, at the end, though yes, the offering of the earring is very charged.  For the warden to love him the way he loves the warden.  If the warden doesn't return his feelings, if the warden doesn't promise a future of some sort together, he breaks up with them.

Edit: Earlier in the relationship as well, BEFORE you can go to the tent, he gets it very clear what the relationship is.  Is it friendship only (romance cut off), is it unsure (romance not started, no tent allowed), is it friends with benefits, or is it a fairly committed relationship?  YES, he is the ONLY companion who, as low as +26, will ask if you two will have a future together after the blight.  If you tell him, "I would like that," when he asks, he answers, "So would I, I should think." 

He will break up with the warden for a few reasons.  The one I stated above, also if the warden is not accepting of his sexual past.  He wants to be accepted, but he is HONEST and doesn't pretend to be something he's not to please the warden.  

Second edit: If you go the route where you get the proposal of a sort, if you tell him a proposal is too much, it doesn't matter that you promised him a future, that you basically have told him you love him; he will still break up with the warden.  It's something he wants, but moreso, he doesn't want to be in a relationship where it's not 100% both ways.

Even that, I don't count as him asking you to do something for him,   I think he's just asking about how you feel about him, because he needs to know.   He's very undemanding!  

I do like that he asks about the future early on, and that he shows such commitment early on.   I don't see him thinking of it as a 'committed relationship' in the usual relationship sense, though.    The love relationship seems to come on top of that commitment.  But one thing he doesn't seem to have any problems with is commitment.    I suppose his commitment never gets tested in the same way that Alistair's does, but the Taliesin encounter is a kind of test. 

The breakup of saying the proposal is too much would be horrible.   Why would anyone ask him for a proposal then reject it?  (Although, speaking from experience, I find it's easy to misinterpret the warden's dialogue options, so it could happen by accident). 

Modifié par Sannox, 01 mai 2010 - 02:56 .

[UpiH]

Sannox wrote...
(Although, speaking from experience, I find it's easy to misinterpret the warden's dialogue options, so it could happen by accident). 

Speaking of...

How All Human Communication Fails, Except by Accident Or a Commentary of Wiio's Laws

1) Communication usually fails, except by accident.

1.1 If communication can fail, it will
1.2 If communication cannot fail, it still most usually fails
1.3 If communication seems to succeed in the intended way, there's a misunderstanding
1.4 If you are content with your message, communication certainly fails

2) If a message can be interpreted in several ways, it will be interpreted in a manner that maximizes the damage

3) There is always someone who knows better than you what you meant with your message

4) The more we communicate, the worse communication succeeds
4.1 The more we communicate, the faster misunderstandings propagate

5) In mass communication, the important thing is not how things are but how they seem to be

6) The importance of a news item is inversely proportional to the square of the distance

7) The more important the situation is, the more probably you forget an essential thing that you remembered a moment ago

First Corollary: If nobody barks at you, your message did not get through
Second Corollary: Search for information fails, except by accident
The Pedagogic Corollary: Give the student a chance to realize he misunderstood it all
As a constructive summary, we can just state that you cannot communicate successfully. You can only increase the odds of accidental success by paying serious attention to the problems discussed here.

Modifié par UpiH, 01 mai 2010 - 03:21 .

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

Even that, I don't count as him asking you to do something for him,   I think he's just asking about how you feel about him, because he needs to know.   He's very undemanding!  

I do like that he asks about the future early on, and that he shows such commitment early on.   I don't see him thinking of it as a 'committed relationship' in the usual relationship sense, though.    The love relationship seems to come on top of that commitment.  But one thing he doesn't seem to have any problems with is commitment.    I suppose his commitment never gets tested in the same way that Alistair's does, but the Taliesin encounter is a kind of test. 

The breakup of saying the proposal is too much would be horrible.   Why would anyone ask him for a proposal then reject it?  (Although, speaking from experience, I find it's easy to misinterpret the warden's dialogue options, so it could happen by accident). 

It all depends on how you roleplay it.  The dialog options support a few things early with Zevran depending on how you go.  Since he's not someone who really thinks about the future (it hits him later on, though -- how likely it is that one of you will die), I have to agree it's not so much that he's asking about forever and ever.  But he does want to know the direction the relationship will take, and is quite happy if it's one where there IS a future.

The proposal -- in context -- I don't think the warden is asking him for a proposal.  S/he asks him if he just proposed.  In the vanilla game (Charsen changes it slightly, but his change makes sense), first Zevran asks for a commitment for the future, then he offers the earring as a token of affection.  Those two things together can be taken as a proposal (and if you go down that route, it's clear he meant it that way, though you don't have to go that far).

Another thing, Zevran's life is in danger as long as he's with the warden.  He knows the Crows will make an example of him; as long as he's with the "Hero of Ferelden" his movements are very well known.  And he knows, if caught, his death will be horrible.  Of course, Awakening changes the ending for him (grrrrr) and he does go to face the Crows, but just staying with Origins, he only has some measure of safety if they stay with the Grey Wardens (which is why I always go that route).

Edit: YAY!  I got some Zev squee in!

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 mai 2010 - 03:27 .

[Sannox]

I do think it sounds as if the warden asks for a proposal, or at least wants a proposal. The warden says that they'll only accept the earring as a token of affection, and then when it's offerred as such, the warden says that it sounds like a proposal. I think it's misleading to do that if the warden is going to then say that a proposal is too much. Why ask for one if you don't want one?



It's not clear exactly what would happen with the Crows. He says that he's free of him, but also that they might come after them. I think he has some safety as long as he's with the Grey Warden. If nobody would take on two recruits, I bet they'd be reluctant to take on the warden who killed the archdemon. (It's very frustrating that he goes to Antiva alone in Awakening!).

[Sarah1281]

If nobody would take on two recruits, I bet they'd be reluctant to take on the warden who killed the archdemon. (It's very frustrating that he goes to Antiva alone in Awakening!).

And speaking of Awakening...WTF is up with all those Crows willingly taking you on because the Amaranthine nobles don't like you?

[Sannox]

A separate issue - I sometimes feel a bit uncomfortable about the way things play out for him. He comes straight from the Crows and a major emotional trauma into being in the service of the warden. Willingly, but still having to be with the warden for safety and because of pledging his loyalty.

He never does get any time out on his own, without either being a slave, or being committed through necessity to somebody else. It's not a bad thing, as such - I'm not even sure why I'm pointing it out. It feels worse if he is a friend or the romance is never completed, maybe, because how he can he have a chance at love if he has to be with the warden? Even if the romance is complete, it feels as if he never quite had freedom, because you don't really have freedom when you're bound by love. The way the character is written, he is utterly happy with that, of course.

Modifié par Sannox, 01 mai 2010 - 03:39 .

[Sannox]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If nobody would take on two recruits, I bet they'd be reluctant to take on the warden who killed the archdemon. (It's very frustrating that he goes to Antiva alone in Awakening!).

And speaking of Awakening...WTF is up with all those Crows willingly taking you on because the Amaranthine nobles don't like you?

Well, yes.  It just doesn't follow from what we're told in Origins.  

(Not to mention that if Zevran was in Antiva and heard about it, he'd find a way to stop it or come back to protect the warden, surely?)

[Creature 1]

Sannox wrote...
Even if the romance is complete, it feels as if he never quite had freedom, because you don't really have freedom when you're bound by love. The way the character is written, he is utterly happy with that, of course.

A person could fanfic that.  *notes to self* 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If nobody would take on two recruits, I bet they'd be reluctant to take on the warden who killed the archdemon. (It's very frustrating that he goes to Antiva alone in Awakening!).

And speaking of Awakening...WTF is up with all those Crows willingly taking you on because the Amaranthine nobles don't like you?

The better question is. Why the hell do the nobles think they can take you on in the first place?
Now I know why Loghain couldn't unite the nobles under him. Because they are idiots.

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

I do think it sounds as if the warden asks for a proposal, or at least wants a proposal. The warden says that they'll only accept the earring as a token of affection, and then when it's offerred as such, the warden says that it sounds like a proposal. I think it's misleading to do that if the warden is going to then say that a proposal is too much. Why ask for one if you don't want one?

It's not clear exactly what would happen with the Crows. He says that he's free of him, but also that they might come after them. I think he has some safety as long as he's with the Grey Warden. If nobody would take on two recruits, I bet they'd be reluctant to take on the warden who killed the archdemon. (It's very frustrating that he goes to Antiva alone in Awakening!).

At the end he says they'll come after him again eventually.  I think that he had his chance to escape when Taliesen died but after helping defeat the blight, he has to be known and the Crows will have to make an example out of him.  I probably is why traveling and staying in Denerim are only "for a time."  Staying with the grey wardens gives him a measure of safety.

We'll again have to agree to disagree about the earring!  It's funny how the same dialog just comes across as so different to us.  I think the warden was asking if he just proposed, not asking for a proposal, and perhaps the warden doesn't want that.  Is it mean?  I'm not sure mean is the right word.  If the warden does NOT want that, it's good to clarify things.

Wanting the earring as a token of affection -- again, I always take that more that Zevran IS offering it as a token of affection, but does not want to state his feelings.  I actually think the warden telling him that s/he wants it only as a token of affection is nice -- it's the warden telling Zevran that s/he cares.  It's one of the few times in the game that the warden can tell Zevran that the whole relationship means a lot more than just a causal fling and that s/he wants more than just a "thank you for helping me."

  What a well written romance.  It's just interesting how we bring our own personal experiences into this.  See, when my husband proposed to me, he didn't ask me to marry him.  He told me he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me and gave me a sapphire ring (my birthstone).

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

If nobody would take on two recruits, I bet they'd be reluctant to take on the warden who killed the archdemon. (It's very frustrating that he goes to Antiva alone in Awakening!).

And speaking of Awakening...WTF is up with all those Crows willingly taking you on because the Amaranthine nobles don't like you?

Well, yes.  It just doesn't follow from what we're told in Origins.  

(Not to mention that if Zevran was in Antiva and heard about it, he'd find a way to stop it or come back to protect the warden, surely?)

Heh, yeh, I hated that.  It was completely the opposite of the Crows in Origins.  Just one more thing to me that gave Awakening a DAO-lite feeling to it.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 mai 2010 - 03:48 .

[Charsen]

UpiH wrote...
G'morn, ejoslin.
Here's a morning workout, just for ya.
*Runs*

that's how i wake up every day!
*flips up collar* 

[Creature 1]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

If nobody would take on two recruits, I bet they'd be reluctant to take on the warden who killed the archdemon. (It's very frustrating that he goes to Antiva alone in Awakening!).

And speaking of Awakening...WTF is up with all those Crows willingly taking you on because the Amaranthine nobles don't like you?

The better question is. Why the hell do the nobles think they can take you on in the first place?
Now I know why Loghain couldn't unite the nobles under him. Because they are idiots.

*nods wisely*  Inbreeding. 

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
Wanting the earring as a token of affection -- again, I always take that more that Zevran IS offering it as a token of affection, but does not want to state his feelings.  I actually think the warden telling him that s/he wants it only as a token of affection is nice -- it's the warden telling Zevran that s/he cares.  It's one of the few times in the game that the warden can tell Zevran that the whole relationship means a lot more than just a causal fling and that s/he wants more than just a "thank you for helping me."

Ok, I see. But I wish the possibility to tell Zevran what relationship means comes in some more direct, straightforward and nice manner and not with a situation that makes you actually reject a gift. 
If everything was solved during one dialogue I might not have a problem with that, but as it is split into two dialogues it makes an impression that the PC is rejecting and thus is either (1) actually content if Zevran interprets this as end of relationship if he doesn't come back, or (2) waiting for him to come back and make his affection clear, which he refuses to do first time. I don't like any of this. But I agree that it's the only opportunity for PC to somehow tell him they want him to like them (heh?). Apart form the gates, where with the fix you have "I love you" line and kiss ...