35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Minaleth]

@ Crow attack in Awakening - very WTF moment, sort of sends whole continuity down the drain if you paid attention to what was said about crows in Origins. But I never played Awakening because of continuity

@ Stupid nobles - certainly, but crows shouldn't be or else they might not rule Antiva for much longer...

Edit: picture? yes... 
Have this one  (No time to draw right now, sorry.)

Modifié par Minaleth, 01 mai 2010 - 04:33 .

[Aroihkin]

Yeah, I lol'd pretty hard when the Crows attacked me in Awakening. Shouldn't the Warden be on a short list somewhere by now? "Not worth it to accept contracts on", perhaps? 

Well, I'm not completely satisfied with his face yet, there's something odd about it from dead-on... lips might still be too thick despite my shrinking them down, or his jaw might still be just a hair too squared, or both. Why does this game want to give guys huge lips? Anyway. The rosy glow to his skin annoys me the most of all, and may even be the true source of my argh, but I fail at figuring out which texture I should be using.

But it's a proper toolset-morph, so I can edit it more later. x_x




Although at least he looks good in leather, of course.




I think this is the best screen I have of him so far:



And of course he picked up the cute bookworm.



Who promptly died.



Not that Tannu apparently cared, since there's no reaction-shot for that!

More random combat!




Sorry for the spam, I'm just tickled to be able to play a dude again, even if there's still a few more things to tweak on his face.

Modifié par Aroihkin, 01 mai 2010 - 05:06 .

[Minaleth]

I don't know, he looks ok. Good screenshots ^^

BTW have I already told you how much your "Mark of death" rocks? It's very impressive piece.

[Sannox]

ejoslin wrote...

Sannox wrote...

I do think it sounds as if the warden asks for a proposal, or at least wants a proposal. The warden says that they'll only accept the earring as a token of affection, and then when it's offerred as such, the warden says that it sounds like a proposal. I think it's misleading to do that if the warden is going to then say that a proposal is too much. Why ask for one if you don't want one?

It's not clear exactly what would happen with the Crows. He says that he's free of him, but also that they might come after them. I think he has some safety as long as he's with the Grey Warden. If nobody would take on two recruits, I bet they'd be reluctant to take on the warden who killed the archdemon. (It's very frustrating that he goes to Antiva alone in Awakening!).

At the end he says they'll come after him again eventually.  I think that he had his chance to escape when Taliesen died but after helping defeat the blight, he has to be known and the Crows will have to make an example out of him.  I probably is why traveling and staying in Denerim are only "for a time."  Staying with the grey wardens gives him a measure of safety.

We'll again have to agree to disagree about the earring!  It's funny how the same dialog just comes across as so different to us.  I think the warden was asking if he just proposed, not asking for a proposal, and perhaps the warden doesn't want that.  Is it mean?  I'm not sure mean is the right word.  If the warden does NOT want that, it's good to clarify things.

Wanting the earring as a token of affection -- again, I always take that more that Zevran IS offering it as a token of affection, but does not want to state his feelings.  I actually think the warden telling him that s/he wants it only as a token of affection is nice -- it's the warden telling Zevran that s/he cares.  It's one of the few times in the game that the warden can tell Zevran that the whole relationship means a lot more than just a causal fling and that s/he wants more than just a "thank you for helping me."

  What a well written romance.  It's just interesting how we bring our own personal experiences into this.  See, when my husband proposed to me, he didn't ask me to marry him.  He told me he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me and gave me a sapphire ring (my birthstone).

Aww .  I think wanting to spend the rest of his life with you is as romantic as it gets.  

I'm not sure how my personal experiences fit in.  My boyfriend has always talks happily about his feelings for me, so that's very different from the Zevran romance.   But he is devoted in that way.  I know that my happiness is his first concern.  So that aspect of the romance felt familiar to me. 

Zevran's proposal, I was talking about people who go for the proposal only to turn it down.  (It's too much).   It's not like it has come out of the blue, because the warden has been cueing him in (you want a token of affection, you think a token of affection is a proposal, but suddenly a proposal is too much).   I don't know why somebody would want to do that, although in a roleplaying sense it might make good drama.  

(What I mean about the warden asking, is that the warden thnks the offer of the earring sounds like a proposal if it's offered as a token of affection - so asking for a token of affection is asking for a proposal.  It seems particularly cruel to then refuse the proposal). 

The earring in general - I don't think I will go for the proposal again.   Now (thanks to you!  And Charsen for the kisses!) there is the opportunity to say that you love him at the gates.   I much prefer that to refusing his gift (which is really about pushing him to say what it means, something he doesn't understand himself at that point, rather than you confessing what you feel).  I actually like his dialogue about 'I have no better way to say it'.    And now I've seen how much he approves of the warden accepting the earring, rather than the proposal, I like to think it makes him happy.  (If I've made a mistake with the approval, I probably don't want to know :happy:).

I did wonder if 'for a time' meant that one of you died, and yes, I suppose it would be him.   What a horrible thought. 

Modifié par Sannox, 01 mai 2010 - 05:19 .

[TanithAeyrs]

awesome screenies of your new character Aroihkin. BTW love the finished version of "Mark of Death" perfect angry Zev.

[Aroihkin]

Minaleth wrote...

I don't know, he looks ok. Good screenshots ^^
BTW have I already told you how much your "Mark of death" rocks? It's very impressive piece.

He's a specific OC of mine who I've drawn at various angles, so he probably looks fine for just a dude, but he's not yet perfectly "Tannu" to me. I think it's mostly the rosy "Gosh golly, I'm so wholesome!" cheek glow.

And yay. ^^ It certainly took long enough for me to pull off, lol.

TanithAeyrs wrote...

awesome screenies of your new character Aroihkin. BTW love the finished version of "Mark of Death" perfect angry Zev.

Glad to hear it. ^^ I still can't even read "angry" in it anymore from looking at it for too long, so it's always good to hear he looks sufficiently pissed off, lol. In a year or two I'll be able to look at it and go "wow, he's angry!" but right now... not so much. ^^;;

Modifié par Aroihkin, 01 mai 2010 - 05:47 .

[MorGothic]

Aroihkin wrote...

Minaleth wrote...

I don't know, he looks ok. Good screenshots ^^
BTW have I already told you how much your "Mark of death" rocks? It's very impressive piece.

He's a specific OC of mine who I've drawn at various angles, so he probably looks fine for just a dude, but he's not yet perfectly "Tannu" to me. I think it's mostly the rosy "Gosh golly, I'm so wholesome!" cheek glow.

And yay. ^^ It certainly took long enough for me to pull off, lol.

I keep expecting him to begin sparkling...

The problem is either "Base Skin Texture" or "Blend Skin Texture" (or maybe both) has been set to "uh_hed_kida_0d"  with the slider maxed.

If you want the young look with less "rosy cheek glowness" try setting the "Base Skin Texture" to "uh_hed_kida_0d" and the "Blend Skin Texture" to "uh_hed_masa_0d" then play about with the sliders.

[Aroihkin]

MorGothic wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...

Minaleth wrote...

I don't know, he looks ok. Good screenshots ^^
BTW have I already told you how much your "Mark of death" rocks? It's very impressive piece.

He's a specific OC of mine who I've drawn at various angles, so he probably looks fine for just a dude, but he's not yet perfectly "Tannu" to me. I think it's mostly the rosy "Gosh golly, I'm so wholesome!" cheek glow.

And yay. ^^ It certainly took long enough for me to pull off, lol.

I keep expecting him to begin sparkling...

The problem is either "Base Skin Texture" or "Blend Skin Texture" (or maybe both) has been set to "uh_hed_kida_0d"  with the slider maxed.

If you want the young look with less "rosy cheek glowness" try setting the "Base Skin Texture" to "uh_hed_kida_0d" and the "Blend Skin Texture" to "uh_hed_masa_0d" then play about with the sliders.

I actually don't even have either of those, it was uh_hed_elfa_0d (because I went poking through them and then didn't remember what the default for human was) and uh_hed_olda_0d. So it's the elf skin with the blush, I guess. Damn elves with their woodland frolicking and sh*t... (I normally play elves, amusingly).

*sees ths sliders now, and rejoices* I didn't think of those since it's region-of-face specific, thanks! <3<3

*scurries off to mess with his face more*

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

Aww .  I think wanting to spend the rest of his life with you is as romantic as it gets.  

I'm not sure how my personal experiences fit in.  My boyfriend has always talks happily about his feelings for me, so that's very different from the Zevran romance.   But he is devoted in that way.  I know that my happiness is his first concern.  So that aspect of the romance felt familiar to me. 

Zevran's proposal, I was talking about people who go for the proposal only to turn it down.  (It's too much).   It's not like it has come out of the blue, because the warden has been cueing him in (you want a token of affection, you think a token of affection is a proposal, but suddenly a proposal is too much).   I don't know why somebody would want to do that, although in a roleplaying sense it might make good drama.  

(What I mean about the warden asking, is that the warden thnks the offer of the earring sounds like a proposal if it's offered as a token of affection - so asking for a token of affection is asking for a proposal.  It seems particularly cruel to then refuse the proposal). 

The earring in general - I don't think I will go for the proposal again.   Now (thanks to you!  And Charsen for the kisses!) there is the opportunity to say that you love him at the gates.   I much prefer that to refusing his gift (which is really about pushing him to say what it means, something he doesn't understand himself at that point, rather than you confessing what you feel).  I actually like his dialogue about 'I have no better way to say it'.    And now I've seen how much he approves of the warden accepting the earring, rather than the proposal, I like to think it makes him happy.  (If I've made a mistake with the approval, I probably don't want to know :happy:).

I did wonder if 'for a time' meant that one of you died, and yes, I suppose it would be him.   What a horrible thought. 

Or, like in Awakening, he goes to Antiva to deal with the Crows himself.  The really annoying thing about that, for me, is that in Awakening your warden has chosen to rebuild the grey wardens, and THAT is the ending in Origins where Zevran stays with you forever.  Yeh, Awakening is not good for continuity.  

And yeh, I take refusing the earring in a different way.  And I feel, though the romance ends almost exactly the same, there is a bit more of an acknowledgement of his feelings towards the warden if it's refused the first time.  Maybe it's caused by that bit of doubt, I don't know.  But it does seem that he does want something more concrete if you refuse the earring the first time as opposed to if you accept it.  Just because of where the phrase "that is enough for me" comes into the conversation.  If you accept the earring the first time, just telling him you return his feelings is enough for him.  If he offers it the second time, he wants more of a commitment for the future.

Whether that's a good thing or not, that's entirely up to the player.  

Edit: And yeh, my husband is amazing.  Sweet, sweet guy, but not a pushover by any stretch.  And very loving.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 mai 2010 - 07:18 .

[Tellervo]

Creature 1 wrote...

Tellervo wrote...

Sresla wrote...

If I might too request the shower, please. Also for research. Expensive research.

The first two there?  Those are... yeah.  Photoreference, I swear.

My abilities as an art critic are validated. 

There's nothing in my PM-box... I guess Charsen didn't notice.  Oh well!

[ejoslin]

Minaleth wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Wanting the earring as a token of affection -- again, I always take that more that Zevran IS offering it as a token of affection, but does not want to state his feelings.  I actually think the warden telling him that s/he wants it only as a token of affection is nice -- it's the warden telling Zevran that s/he cares.  It's one of the few times in the game that the warden can tell Zevran that the whole relationship means a lot more than just a causal fling and that s/he wants more than just a "thank you for helping me."

Ok, I see. But I wish the possibility to tell Zevran what relationship means comes in some more direct, straightforward and nice manner and not with a situation that makes you actually reject a gift. 
If everything was solved during one dialogue I might not have a problem with that, but as it is split into two dialogues it makes an impression that the PC is rejecting and thus is either (1) actually content if Zevran interprets this as end of relationship if he doesn't come back, or (2) waiting for him to come back and make his affection clear, which he refuses to do first time. I don't like any of this. But I agree that it's the only opportunity for PC to somehow tell him they want him to like them (heh?). Apart form the gates, where with the fix you have "I love you" line and kiss ...

I agree. But maybe part of it is having him acknowledge HIS feelings to the full extent.  I was saying in a message to Sannox that it seems he wants more of a commitment to the warden if the warden rejects the earring the first time.  In fact, in the vanilla game, even telling him in the second conversation, if you turn down the earring the first time, telling him, "I do, and I feel the same," leads to no second offer of the earring.  His being unsure of himself, probably for the first time ever in a relationship, leads him to wanting more.

But Zevran does not interpret turning down the earring as the ending of the relationship, even if you turn it down in a completely harsh way.  It's an interesting dynamic.  He also in certain dialogs seems more loving if the warden has not had sex with him.  I don't know what to make of that.

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
But Zevran does not interpret turning down the earring as the ending of the relationship, even if you turn it down in a completely harsh way.  It's an interesting dynamic.  

He could have. The PC does not know how will he react and one obvious possibility is that he does not offer again. If my PC said such a thing she would consider this and expect possible unpleasant result. 
It's good he does offer for second time though. And yes, that's interesting and tell a lot about the character. But no matter how the rejection is served, it's still rejection of the gift and thus not nice (imo!) thing to do no matter how noble intent is behind (to reveal his feelings to PC). I can think of many other ways to do it and I would prefer them. 

Endless discussion is endless

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
He also in certain dialogs seems more loving if the warden has not had sex with him.  I don't know what to make of that.

I am trying this in my current playthrough and will see it the impression form relationship is different.

[ejoslin]

Minaleth wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
He also in certain dialogs seems more loving if the warden has not had sex with him.  I don't know what to make of that.

I am trying this in my current playthrough and will see it the impression form relationship is different.

Where it's most noticeable is if the warden is getting married to Alistair or Anora.  Even the VO notes comment, if you haven't had sex, if the warden stays with him, how happy he is because he loves the warden a lot, where in the "had sex" variant, the VO notes comment, he's happy things aren't over, so he shrugs and goes with it.

[Sannox]

I did wonder about why he doesn't offer the earring again if you say you feel the same.   To me that is just as strong a response, if not stronger, than the one which leads to the offer.   Maybe you're right, Ejoslin, that if he feels less secure, he has to push a little himself for more commitment (the proposal).  I hadn't thought of it that way.  It makes sense.

I've been wanting him to feel more secure.  So 'that is enough for me' feels like a good thing - that is the point where he feels secure and loved.  You get to that same point in different ways, with the proposal or without.

Now there are times when I feel that I wish he would show more of his feelings.  He's pleased when you dump one of the other characters to be with him.  But he doesn't seem to register just quite what a big deal it is (if the character was in love with you, for instance).    I suppose it's all explained later though - he just doesn't understand his own feelings at that time.  

But at the point of the earring, it's him who has just made a huge commitment to you (the fact that he will make it to you as a friend doesn't detract from it at all, I don't think), and you haven't yet reciprocated.  He is still confused and as he says, he has no better way to say it.   He can't offer the earring as a token of affection at that point, it seems, no matter what you say.  And when he's ready, he tells you what he feels, whether you rejected the earring or not.

One thing that was interesting when I tested out the earring offers in my crude way, is his approval rises if you accept the earring the first time, not the second time, with the proposal.   That was a big surprise to me.  I had thought the game was set up so that the proposal was the 'best' outcome.  But for him, it isn't (or isn't necessarily - it might be, depending on how you're playing it).   He really, really seems to want you to take that earring the first time. 

(But don't take this as gospel.  I tested it very clumsily, with festival gifts and a notepad, and mistakes are likely).

@ Minaleth I agree.  Regardless of the rest, it just doesn't feel nice to refuse him that one thing, and upset him like that.  I still feel bad about doing it with my elf mage, particularly as they were both men and couldn't have got married anyway!  What was I thinking?  And I love his dialogue and expressions when you accept it - he thanks you for accepting. 

Modifié par Sannox, 01 mai 2010 - 08:26 .

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

I did wonder about why he doesn't offer the earring again if you say you feel the same.   To me that is just as strong a response, if not stronger, than the one which leads to the offer.   Maybe you're right, Ejoslin, that if he feels less secure, he has to push a little himself for more commitment (the proposal).  I hadn't thought of it that way.  It makes sense.

I've been wanting him to feel more secure.  So 'that is enough for me' feels like a good thing - that is the point where he feels secure and loved.  You get to that same point in different ways, with the proposal or without.

Now there are times when I feel that I wish he would show more of his feelings.  He's pleased when you dump one of the other characters to be with him.  But he doesn't seem to register just quite what a big deal it is (if the character was in love with you, for instance).    I suppose it's all explained later though - he just doesn't understand his own feelings at that time.  

But at the point of the earring, it's him who has just made a huge commitment to you (the fact that he will make it to you as a friend doesn't detract from it at all, I don't think), and you haven't yet reciprocated.  He is still confused and as he says, he has no better way to say it.   He can't offer the earring as a token of affection at that point, it seems, no matter what you say.  And when he's ready, he tells you what he feels, whether you rejected the earring or not.

One thing that was interesting when I tested out the earring offers in my crude way, is his approval rises if you accept the earring the first time, not the second time, with the proposal.   That was a big surprise to me.  I had thought the game was set up so that the proposal was the 'best' outcome.  But for him, it isn't (or isn't necessarily - it might be, depending on how you're playing it).   He really, really seems to want you to take that earring the first time. 

(But don't take this as gospel.  I tested it very clumsily, with festival gifts and a notepad, and mistakes are likely).

@ Minaleth I agree.  Regardless of the rest, it just doesn't feel nice to refuse him that one thing, and upset him like that.  I still feel bad about doing it with my elf mage, particularly as they were both men and couldn't have got married anyway!  What was I thinking?  And I love his dialogue and expressions when you accept it - he thanks you for accepting. 

You're right about the approval -- you get a vlow to a low approval raise accepting it the first time, and none is tied to accepting it the second time.  However, you get a medium approval loss for turning it down the first time and an extreme or very high approval loss (strangely, you lose less approval for declining it as a proposal) and a breakup for turning it down the second time.  You could argue that the second offer actually means more to him.  If he's offering it as a thank you, a rejection is that of a gift telling him that you want more from him.  If he's offering it as a token of affection, turning it down ends everything.

It's funny, I think he DOES acknowledge how difficult it is for you if you choose him.  In fact, when I compare him to Alistair...  Alistair is just ugh in the same situation.  When you choose Zevran and then he asks about poetry, if you tell him you can't talk about it at the moment, he is SO sweet there and says, "Ahhh, of course. I simply thought to lighten the mood. Serious topics have never been my specialty, after all. Let us speak another time, then."  Gah, he is great.

[TanithAeyrs]

I always feel bad when I turn down the earring the first time. Sure, the dialog is great when he offers it again, but poor Zev. I feel like I abuse his feelings when I tell him "not unless it means something"



I think my writers block escaped and attacked all the writers on this thread. Pokes for updates. Please?

[jenovan]

XD; Sorry, Tanith! I needed a break after the last thing I wrote. (Which still needs to be cleaned up a little..) I'm trying to get my head around something else to work on in the next week.

[Tellervo]

Uh... maybe. We'll see. I have a DnD game tonight, otherwise I'd get right on that.

[Sannox]

ejoslin wrote...

You're right about the approval -- you get a vlow to a low approval raise accepting it the first time, and none is tied to accepting it the second time.  However, you get a medium approval loss for turning it down the first time and an extreme or very high approval loss (strangely, you lose less approval for declining it as a proposal) and a breakup for turning it down the second time.  You could argue that the second offer actually means more to him.  If he's offering it as a thank you, a rejection is that of a gift telling him that you want more from him.  If he's offering it as a token of affection, turning it down ends everything.

I think rejecting it the second time is a lot worse, because (a) you'd told him you would accept it if he offerred it as a token of affection and ( he has now explained how he feels (and why he couldn't offer it that way the first time). 

I don't think he really does offer it as a thank you the first time (if you ask if it is, he says 'Just take it', I think).  He just can't explain at that point 'I have no better way to say it'.   (That's a funny thing - I would say that both times, proposal or not, he is offerring the earring as more than a token of affection, not less.  'Token of affection' seems a bit understated, almost.).  

It's funny, I think he DOES acknowledge how difficult it is for you if you choose him.  In fact, when I compare him to Alistair...  Alistair is just ugh in the same situation.  When you choose Zevran and then he asks about poetry, if you tell him you can't talk about it at the moment, he is SO sweet there and says, "Ahhh, of course. I simply thought to lighten the mood. Serious topics have never been my specialty, after all. Let us speak another time, then."  Gah, he is great.

I didn't mean that he doesn't acknowledge the difficulty for you - it's more that he just doesn't seem to cotton on to what it means.  'This person is giving up a serious love relationship just to be with me?   So what must they feel for me?' - he doesn't seem to explore that chain of thought.   Of course, the PC might feel nothing for the person they dumped, so might not feel much more for Zevran, in Zevran's eyes.  I think he just really doesn't know what he feels and what he wants.   He's just glad to be chosen, but as he's shut out thoughts of love, he doesn't think of love being the reason for it. 

[TanithAeyrs]

Sorry y'all. Couldn't resist - finally got a my chapter up after 3 weeks struggling with it. I just really enjoy reading good FF.



Tellervo -enjoy your DnD game. I don't have a group to play with anymore (we all had kids and are too busy now - maybe when the kids are old enough to play we will try again).



Jenovan -with 6 stories to work on I don't know how you decide what to write.

[Creature 1]

I need to update with 800 words of fluff. *fluffs fluff*

[jenovan]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

Jenovan -with 6 stories to work on I don't know how you decide what to write.

(I wish I had more time to read!  I would say, "I can't wait til WWN is done" so I'd have more time to read and not feel guilty... except I still have a long way to go.  )

Well, 3 of those 6 are things owed to other people (1 of them is the thing almost finished), and those take priority... 2 of them are for WWN, and ... ... I think I forgot what the 6th one was. Oh dear.

Creature 1 wrote...

I need to update with 800 words of fluff. *fluffs fluff*

Please do! 

Post needs more Zevran...

[Creature 1]

jenovan wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

I need to update with 800 words of fluff. *fluffs fluff*

Please do! 

Aw, ok.  *gets right on it* 

[ejoslin]

I'm being a toolset junky again. Interesting thing (at least in my weird mind). If you choose Zevran over Leliana or Morrigan, his VO notes say, "Pleased." If you choose him over Alistair, his VO notes say, "Relieved."