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[Creature 1]

More importantly, Ignacio threatens him ("pray I don't change my mind" or some such) in spite of claiming to be too smart to take on the Wardens. If he was that smart he'd know Zevran and the lead Warden are having sex and the Warden might feel possessive, and know better than to threaten Zevran or cast aspersions at him. But I guess Ignacio's ego gets in the way.

Modifié par Creature 1, 03 mai 2010 - 02:47 .

[Mscheveous]

Elps wrote...

Mscheveous wrote...

Speaking of Dialogue changes, I would love the option of telling Ignacio that the reason I am killing him is because he just called my man a ****son...

Yeah, "Take that dire bunny! Fear my sword of truthiness!"

Ooh! I never kill him because I see him as friendly towards the Warden. Since I live in hope that the Trial of the Crows will lead to further developments of that storyline when Zev and I go to Antiva to take control of the Crows (and possibly the throne) I figure its wise to have one senior Crow on my side   Calling Zev names is just appropriate, given the way the Crows have treated him and saying he is the son of a **** is ... well... accurate 

Of course, and your probably 100% right, but the ghetto in me says, '**** my man aint yo babys daddy' and I have to kick his ass for the referrence ....*laugh*

^5 to Creature -  Exactly...dont be talkin about mah man. *throws up the hand*

Modifié par Mscheveous, 03 mai 2010 - 03:09 .

[Mscheveous]

Elps wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

More importantly, Ignacio threatens him ("pray I don't change my mind" or some such) in spite of claiming to be too smart to take on the Wardens. If he was that smart he'd know Zevran and the lead Warden are having sex and the Warden might feel possessive, and know better than to threaten Zevran or cast aspersions at him. But I guess Ignacio's ego gets in the way.

Despite that threat though he does turn a blind eye to Zevran's existence. Given that the Crows kill those who fail, this is a big concession to the Warden. Ignacio is contemptuous, rightly so, because Zev failed, but pragmatic enough to switch sides because of that failure. He stands by his honour as a Crow while choosing to pretend he doesn't know that Zev is alive. All in all, its a pretty good outcome for the Warden because apart from Taliesen there will be no more contracts on the Wardens of Ferelden. 

It leaves interesting possibilities open for an amoral rogue Warden. Hopefully there will be a DLC or expansion that takes this further.

*Nods* Understandable, and if that happens I guess I'll be doing another play through so I can let him live..but until then...., Im going to teach him why Zev failed..

And this is why I never see all the interesting dialogue, I always do the same things. I just cant help myself..as soon as I hear him say it, my hand twitches and well...'Gee officer, I dont know how he landed on my Sword 900 times..he must of tripped.'

[TanithAeyrs]

Thanks for the answers on Zev and sailing - I assume that he came to Ferelden by ship since it is the much shorter route. I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything. I think his association with Isabela predates her being captain of the Siren's Call - he (presumably) took a contract on her husband and she then became the ship's captain.



I handle the Zev earring question very differently with different Wardens. My mage accepted the first time it was offered - being a mage she was too unsure of herself to ask for the commitment.



My city elf turned the earring down the first time - she was tired of Zevran's evasions about his feelings and wanted to know for sure where she stood. I suspect that my dwarf commoner will react in a similar fashion- but she is still in Lothering right now, so I don't know for sure.



Ignacio is an interesting character. None of my characters are fond of how he treats Zev, but once again my response depends on what kind of character I am playing. On one hand you can't really blame him for insulting Zev - to Ignacio he is a ***** son and a traitor to the Crows. On the other hand, he just insulted your companion, friend or love interest depending on when in the game you trigger his quest (and if you are romancing Zev).



I love how Jenovan's Warden responds to Ignacio in her FF "Well Woven Net". That is how I would like my warden to be able to respond. I have no idea how hard that would be to mod or if Jenovan would let anyone play with the idea.

[Nonvita]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

Thanks for the answers on Zev and sailing - I assume that he came to Ferelden by ship since it is the much shorter route. I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything. I think his association with Isabela predates her being captain of the Siren's Call - he (presumably) took a contract on her husband and she then became the ship's captain.

Yes, it's made clear in the game that she became the ship's captain after Zevran assassinated her husband. Oh, you naughty Zevran, you.


Ignacio? Hmm, I don't like the guy, but I'd probably usually leave him alive. My CE left him alive because she didn't want to be caught up in the Crows business in the first place, so making things worse by killing him wouldn't make sense. Also, though she didn't really believe that helping Ignacio would keep the Crows away from Zevran, she would willingly do anything to make them less likely to hurt him. The guy is an ass, but pragmatism tends to win the day for me (on that issue anyway).

[Mscheveous]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

Thanks for the answers on Zev and sailing - I assume that he came to Ferelden by ship since it is the much shorter route. I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything. I think his association with Isabela predates her being captain of the Siren's Call - he (presumably) took a contract on her husband and she then became the ship's captain.

I handle the Zev earring question very differently with different Wardens. My mage accepted the first time it was offered - being a mage she was too unsure of herself to ask for the commitment.

My city elf turned the earring down the first time - she was tired of Zevran's evasions about his feelings and wanted to know for sure where she stood. I suspect that my dwarf commoner will react in a similar fashion- but she is still in Lothering right now, so I don't know for sure.

Ignacio is an interesting character. None of my characters are fond of how he treats Zev, but once again my response depends on what kind of character I am playing. On one hand you can't really blame him for insulting Zev - to Ignacio he is a ***** son and a traitor to the Crows. On the other hand, he just insulted your companion, friend or love interest depending on when in the game you trigger his quest (and if you are romancing Zev).

I love how Jenovan's Warden responds to Ignacio in her FF "Well Woven Net". That is how I would like my warden to be able to respond. I have no idea how hard that would be to mod or if Jenovan would let anyone play with the idea.

Good way of doing things, I agree. Probably one of the best ways to learn all sides of the storyline, and one of my downfalls...I cant seem to break the habit of just continually repeatting the same pattern. Expecially Ignacio, of course I understand the 'why', I just cant help myself, the second he utters those words I go on the defensive and need to smack him down a level. I guess when I told Zev that I enjoyed violence also it wasnt just because I was trying to get into his pants! hehe

[TanithAeyrs]

I try really hard to give each of my characters a distinct personality and then play them that way. I have a hard time playing evil characters (the best I could ever manage in D&D was chaotic neutral - and even that didn't last for very long). However there is a lot of range in playing mostly good characters - from the naive, everything will turn out okay character; to the pragmatic character who sees the world in shades of grey but still tries to find the "best" outcome given the circumstances.



The fun thing about Zev is you don't have to agree with him all the time to get him to like you. He is rather accepting of the Warden having a different viewpoint. There certainly are points that you can take a big approval drop if you don't agree with him, but there are a lot of ways to earn those points back.



Back to "pirate Zev"

[Mscheveous]

True, True..he is.

After a few regular playthroughs I just started to follow guides, like the conversation one. So I can get the best rating asap, I got the Zevasap mod, I dont even finish Lothering before I go get him, talk to him in camp and in a few exchanges Im in his tent for the last bit of it...weee



I just love me my Zev!

[Aroihkin]

*claws out from under ffnet formatting drama for a moment* I'd really rather be writing. ;_;

...I've handled Ignacio differently on just about every character that's met him, some of them I've put off running into him yet. My CE archer chick told him to gtfo and never contact her again, my Brosca girl is doing the jobs -- because what's a little more dirty work? I'm not sure how Alleyana will react.

What I wish for, and can't be modded really, is if you could ask Zev what he thinks of the Warden's group potentially running errands for the Crows. If he couldn't care less, then great, more of my characters would probably do it. If he's kind of disgusted at the idea, less of mine would do it, etc. Although... not all of them in either direction.

I just wish there was a way to find out his thoughts on the matter in-game. XD Alley will certainly ask in the fic if I illustrate that encounter, it's just a shame she can't in canon.

( I suspect and currently plan to go with "cautious indifference" in the fic. He doesn't want them to walk into a trap, but it doesn't seem at all weird to him to be doing Crow work. He's only just barely gotten away from them, after all; it probably doesn't even seem weird. It might after Alley points it out, though. XD But not enough to sway his opinion. He hated being an expendable, not so much being a Crow. )

But I still wish there was an option in the game for the Warden to turn to Zevran and say "And your thoughts?" considering how near to the subject he is. I realize he's behaving as the good little subordinate and just hanging out in the background waiting for any traps to spring, but not all of my Wardens would leave it at that. Especially the ones who already know about the Rinna incident.

Modifié par Aroihkin, 03 mai 2010 - 06:09 .

[TanithAeyrs]

Aro, I agree with you, I don't think Zev would really care except to be concerned about a trap. He has nothing against being an assassin - he is very up front about that. It would be nice to be able to ask him about it though.



I always found it kind of weird from a RP standpoint that you couldn't talk to your NPC's about major decisions anyway. I know it would be tough to implement from a game standpoint, but my Wardens would definitely talk, at least to their closest friends and LI about big issues.



Also, Aro, so sorry to hear about your formatting issues - FF is a pain when you need a break within a chapter. I ended up using their standard line on my last chapter - I hope it stays there. Best wishes on getting everything moved over to the other site - I will follow your link so I can keep reading.

[Sannox]

Jayelet wrote...

@Ejoslin and @Sannox

I have my own theory on this point in the game.
I do not think Zevran be afraid of their feelings. But for the life he led, seriously thinks that the character is playing with him.
One of the things that I've always been clear with Zevran, is that he is dispensable and nobody really thinks it can love or want a future with him.
When offered the slope, you said it was important for him, but sincerely believes that it is not important for the character, that Zevran not really sure he feels the same.

I hope I have managed to explain

You've all been talking about the earring through the night!  What a treat for me to wake up and read the posts. 

I agree, Jayelet - he has been taught that he's 'nothing'.  When somebody did admit to loving him, there was a horrible ending too.    I do believe that he assumes the earring isn't going to mean much to the warden, and that's why he tells them they can do what they like with it.   He doesn't have the confidence in the warden's feelings to say 'This is important to me.  I want you to treasure it'.  

[Sannox]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

I always found it kind of weird from a RP standpoint that you couldn't talk to your NPC's about major decisions anyway. I know it would be tough to implement from a game standpoint, but my Wardens would definitely talk, at least to their closest friends and LI about big issues.
.

Yes.  Sometimes it feels very strange when something happens that you would talk about, and your closest companions are just standing there with blank expressions.    This (Ignacio) was one of the occasions I really wanted to talk to Zevran, but there are lots.   It would be great if there was more opportunity for that in DA2, but I have a feeling that's not the way it's going to go (judging by the changes in Awakening).

[Aroihkin]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

Aro, I agree with you, I don't think Zev would really care except to be concerned about a trap. He has nothing against being an assassin - he is very up front about that. It would be nice to be able to ask him about it though.

I always found it kind of weird from a RP standpoint that you couldn't talk to your NPC's about major decisions anyway. I know it would be tough to implement from a game standpoint, but my Wardens would definitely talk, at least to their closest friends and LI about big issues.

Also, Aro, so sorry to hear about your formatting issues - FF is a pain when you need a break within a chapter. I ended up using their standard line on my last chapter - I hope it stays there. Best wishes on getting everything moved over to the other site - I will follow your link so I can keep reading.

Oh, it'll still be going up on ffnet and should be safe enough to read there when chapters are new, but folks coming in late or whatnot should probably just start off on AWN where I know the formatting on old stories/chapters didn't get magically skull****ed when I wasn't looking. I also long ago figured out the html needed to stick the review box from ffnet onto AWN, because I'm a review-wh*re like that. So the only real difference is site scheme, although I haven't heard any complaints about it being difficult to read on there or anything...  and all the TAF readers went to AWN to read the explicit chapter of 04, since it was too high rating for ffnet.

Plus, I like to respond to reviews... but ffnet frowns on that, so I generally do it on AWN instead.

It's just all my past stuff getting screwed that I hate. Over and over, I keep having to fix it all, just to have it get screwed up again in a few weeks or a few years, and I only find out when I go to re-read a key scene or chapter that has a break in it. So now everything has "go read at AWN" plastered on it, so if someone's reading on ffnet anyway and suddenly the scene changes jarringly and the whole thing is randomly incoherent because the narrators all changed... they know it wasn't my writing that did it, and they can go see how it's supposed to look.

...Sorry, mini-tangent. This is the second time this has happened to me just within a month, though, and I've been a registered member of ffnet for nine years, and was once even a paid member before they started ****ing everything. I'm a veteran of their bs and I'm incredibly sick of it, but ffnet is where the readers are. I can't keep going back and fixing all my stuff though, I've written too much long epic crap for it to not take an entire day to do it, and obviously the more I write the worse it's getting. Plus, again, not even knowing when the formatting gets borked to begin with...

Modifié par Aroihkin, 03 mai 2010 - 06:53 .

[UnDutchable]

My 2 cents about the earring:

Zevran is acting like a Crow throughout the whole thing, which is enough for most of my characters to reject it the first time. When he tells you about Rinna, he says that you've been a good friend and is obviously upset that the Crows didn't give two bits about him or Rinna. But the only way he dares to give you the earring is by lying about his feelings and intentions (I shouldn't get the wrong idea but the earring has meant a lot to you and you want me to have it?) and downplaying his own importance (Because why shouldn't you sell the earring after he just told you its meant a lot to him? He's just Zevran, he's totally insignificant, right?).

For my characters, telling him they don't want the earring unless it means something is their way of saying they want Zevran to give the finger to all that Crow indoctrination and accept that he IS worth something. If that means forcing him to think about his feelings and pushing him out of his comfort zone, so be it.

Although sometimes I just metagame and reject the earring regardless of RP intentions, because Zevran is just adorable when he's frustrated with you.





Ah yes, FF.net and formatting... good times. *fondly remembers resubmitting a chapter six times because the formatting kept getting screwed up*

[Sannox]

@Tellervo, @ Mscheveous, @ Elps, @ sami jo, @ Nonvita, I'm catching up and loved reading your earring posts.    It's amazing how differently it can be seen.

A couple of things:

The idea that Zevran is being evasive about his own feelings while expecting the warden to confess his/hers: I don't get that at all.   I get the opposite.  I went through the game a while back and tried to test out the dialogue options.  I get the impression from some of you that your warden is being open to Zevran about how they feel and Zevran isn't reciprocating.  I know some people might play that as happening outside of the dialogues we see.   But within the dialogue choices it seems to be impossible. 

Zevran gives back what he gets, and more.  It's the warden who holds back. It's not as if the warden has gone as far as Zevran does in that moment - the warden hasn't given a gift with meaning like that, or said anything quite as powerful as Zevran says while giving it.   He's going out on a limb.

I think the conversation just before is the most striking example;

Warden 'I'm glad to have you stay'.  (A nice thing to say, but not particularly powerful or committed).
Zevran: 'Then stay I shall.  I'm with you until the end .. provided you do not tire of me first.  Or I die.  Or you die.  But there you go'.  (Wow!  For all his joking, that comes across as really powerful and committed.  Much more so than anything the warden has said to him). 

Offering the earring is going out on a limb in itself - again, it's something the warden hasn't done for him.   And I think it's clear (from the conversation and from other conversations) that he does it without being at all sure about the warden's feelings for him.  

It's pretty one-sided at that point.   He is doing the offering.   He is struggling with what he's saying but he makes it clear enough that he feels a lot, I think.   The warden doesn't say anything like that.  

The idea that Zevran says the ring is meaningless and he's happy for you to give it away or sell it.  That's not what he says.   He says 'feel free to sell it, wear it ... whatever you'd like'.   He doesn't know what you would like, but I bet he hopes that you'll keep it.  He says that it means something to him, but he doesn't insist that it means something to you.  (And given how easily his approval goes up, it's quite possible that at this point he is talking to a warden who is not in love with him.  Regardless, he wants to give the earring anyway). 

The idea that he won't give it with meaning.   He does give it with meaning ('It has meant a lot to me ..').  I know that some people want him to be more explicit.  But as I've said, he is going out on a limb - saying more than the warden has said to him, without any guarantee that it will be accepted.

The idea the refusing the earring encourages him to think about his feelings.  He does think about his feelings regardless.  It's not the refusal that gets him to that point.  

The mod allowing you to express your own feelings instead of just demanding that he says more.  I appreciate that, because I really did want the option to be able to say what I felt at that point, regardless of whether my warden accepted the earring or not.  However, when the warden does reveal his/her feelings, Zevran reciprocates.  (It's just rare the that the warden reveals feelings to him!).   It changes his character, I think, to have him reject your feelings.   I would love to say it, whether I accept or not, but I don't think it works with his dialogue.

(Married in Antiva.  I think he takes that comment rather well, considering that it sounds as if the warden could be making fun of him and his gift.  I know you might play a warden who really believed that it meant you were married in Antiva, but he doesn't act as if he knows that - I don't believe his response is what he would say to a warden who believed they were married.  It's what he would say to a warden who was joking around, I think.)

Modifié par Sannox, 03 mai 2010 - 07:21 .

[Tellervo]

What I meant was, I took the Warden being evasive, in context of the character I was playing, to be letting Zevran take all the first steps so the relationship didn't move too quickly for him in an emotional sense... and the way he downplays the meaning of the earring (not that it's worthless, but that he tries to belittle its worth) when it's very clear that it is important was infuriating. My first Warden's knee-jerk reaction was to turn it down, because he wasn't going to accept what Zevran was implying about himself and his own worth, nevermind the accidental implications about the Warden's value to him.

It was sort of an impulsive anger.  My Warden was trying to be understanding and patient, as he was rather confused himself, but that was just a little too much.  Zevran's response when you reject the earring is telling that he was trying to downplay the importance of it--comparing it to loot, as if it's something you could win or gain from some sort of conquest.  Not that it had no value, but he was certainly trying to make it seem like less than it was.

I like all of the dialogue around the earring as is.  It's kind of mean, but turning the thing down should be a little mean.  It's not a nice thing you're doing, no matter how you play it out, and he would be justified in breaking up with you--though that would probably be a bit of a hissy fit at that stage of the relationship.  As it stands, I think getting the proposal out of him is much more satisfying.  There's real fear that it will end, if you're playing blind.

Modifié par Tellervo, 03 mai 2010 - 07:41 .

[phaonica]

UnDutchable wrote...

For my characters, telling him they don't want the earring unless it means something is their way of saying they want Zevran to give the finger to all that Crow indoctrination and accept that he IS worth something. If

Gosh I played that completely differently.  Here he was giving me something that he obviously cared about, downplaying it's worth and his own. I felt like if I turned it down, I'd only be confirming that he didn't mean anything to anyone. I felt grabbing him up and looking him straight in the face and telling him, "Dont *ever* think no one cares about you ever again."

[Sannox]

@ Tellervo, that makes sense to me as a reason for refusing. It IS frustrating to listen to him talk as if he doesn't mean much to the warden, when you want him to value himself.



For me, that would be the point to say what he means to my warden, but you don't get that chance, only the chance to refuse. It's frustrating that it forces you to rp your warden a certain way, even though it works well.



@ Undutchable I don't see him as lying, any more than the warden is lying by not saying more. He's the one who is coming forward and saying that it means a lot, not the warden. Later, when the warden (if you RP it that way) wants a proposal, are they lying when they don't ask him directly? I don't think there is lying going on there on either side, so much as both not being quite sure of the other's feelings. BUT I do think the warden has more reason to be sure of Zevran's feelings than vice versa, given the dialogues.



The refusal doesn't force him to think about his feelings, because he does that anyway. He seems to need that inbetween conversation to talk about them, though - when he tries to thank you for freeing him from the Crows, and you give him at least some acknowledgement that there's something between you (even friendship). Then he'll talk, openly. But even then, it's clear that he's been confused about his feelings rather than lying. I really like the option where you ask if he loves you - his voice when he says that he doesn't know.

[Mscheveous]

I havent gotten to that point in the MOD yet, so I still dont know how it works and what all the options are on it yet, Im working on getting to that point now. ..Married in Antiva, is that part of the MOD, or am I missing dialect? Even when I wasnt following the guide I didnt notice that part...



For me, I do feel it makes him think on it a bit more, I felt that up until then he was taking the relationship with a grain of salt. Not that he didnt 'love' the Warden before then perhaps, as you mentioned with the Warden never really having the option to profess either he was unsure and didnt want to open up and get rejected. I felt refusing it the first time would then make him think that the Warden does in fact feel as deeply as he, and that he may then let down his guard just a little, to express that the earring is a token of affection, not just a thank you gift, you have been lavishing him with gifts also all this time, but I cant remeber any of the dialect attached to the plot ones, probably nothing that allows the Warden to say anything about his/her feelings like when giving Alistair some of his. ----Of course I have to go back and reread all the dialogue, to see what the Wardens options actually were..after a few play throughs like I mentioned I just followed the conversation guide...I dont think he expected the Warden to confess anything, I dont think Zevran expects much at all to be honest, like you mentioned as well. Hes just happy to be had..



I guess thats the good thing about Zevran, whoever wrote his character did an excellent job. Each person playing seems to get to feel something different by the things he says, the choises you make for him, ECT. I feel the others are kind of one sided, or maybe I just dont talk to them enough to see if they are as in depth as Zev.

[Sannox]

phaonica wrote...

Gosh I played that completely differently.  Here he was giving me something that he obviously cared about, downplaying it's worth and his own. I felt like if I turned it down, I'd only be confirming that he didn't mean anything to anyone. I felt grabbing him up and looking him straight in the face and telling him, "Dont *ever* think no one cares about you ever again."

I wish there was that option :happy:.   But of course it woudn't fit with Zevran then saying that you are frustrating, and walking off!  

One thing that I haven't mentioned is that I think accepting the earring can mean a lot.  It's not just a case of not refusing it.   It acknowledges his 'I have no better way to say it'.  I find that line quite moving.   He really can't explain what he feels at that point.  

I know I've said it before, but it needs to be repeated often - Ejoslin and Charsen's work on the gate kisses changes things in a huge way - being able to confirm that he knows he's loved is wonderful.  (I know there are other good options.  I just love that one so much).  

But at that point, when he offers, he has no reason to be sure of what you feel.   And given how easy it is to get his approval up, and the diallogue options up till that point, he could well be talking to a warden who is nowhere near in love, who just finds him an amusing companion.  That's the context in which he gives the gift. 

[UnDutchable]

phaonica wrote...

UnDutchable wrote...

For my characters, telling him they don't want the earring unless it means something is their way of saying they want Zevran to give the finger to all that Crow indoctrination and accept that he IS worth something.

Gosh I played that completely differently.  Here he was giving me something that he obviously cared about, downplaying it's worth and his own. I felt like if I turned it down, I'd only be confirming that he didn't mean anything to anyone. I felt grabbing him up and looking him straight in the face and telling him, "Dont *ever* think no one cares about you ever again."

Haha, we're doing complete opposite things to try and achieve the same result. Humans are so hilariously complicated.  (And it's a compliment to the writing in this game that we all have such different views on what's being said and felt.)

@Sannox: I felt like Zevran was lying because of  "Don't get the wrong idea." I would have honestly been fine with the whole conversation if not for that one line. It gets my blood boiling every time I hear it, and I'm not sure why. I guess it kind of makes me feel like Zevran isn't even letting the PC have a chance to an unspoken agreement that the earring is a token of affection. Because even before he says that it's meant a lot to him, it's obvious that it's not an insignificant gift - he's already made it clear that the Crows don't have friends and he's not used to being given gifts, so for him to give you something is pretty significant even if it was just a "thank you" from one friend to another. And then he throws that line at you. I dunno, it just really rubs me the wrong way.

It mostly depends on who I'm playing as, though; my Casteless Dwarves took the earring the first time because she understood what he was saying and she would have expressed her feelings the same way; my City Elf who dreamed of marriage and children got the earring right after returning to the Alienage and... yeah, she didn't take it very well after just being reminded of her murdered husband. My Dwarf Noble, Human Noble, and Dalish all wanted some kind of commitment because I imagined that's how they were raised, so the proposal was the way to go for them. (Although my maleCousland took the earring the first time because he's a Manly Man and Manly Men don't talk about feelings and stuff.)

... And now I realize why the Alistair romance bores me: I never have to think about roleplaying in the actual romance itself, his becoming king or not is the only part that depends on roleplaying. Why you gotta be such a boring gentleman, Alistair?

Modifié par UnDutchable, 03 mai 2010 - 08:12 .

[Sannox]

@Mscheveous When he offers the earring you can have an option to ask if it will mean that you're married in Antiva. He says 'I hope not'. If it's meant as a joke, his response is fine, but if the warden really did think it meant they were married it comes across as hurtful. The way it sounds to me though, whatever the warden meant, Zevran assumes it's a joke.

I don't think he takes the relationship lightly so much as that he's confused and doesn't think about it too much until he's free. Maybe it's having the freedom to leave that starts to make him realise how much he wants to stay. He doesn't try to claim that the gift is 'just' a thank you gift - actually, I think that what he is trying to say there is difficult. He is grateful, but it's not quite that. He can't say it's a token of affection until he's thought about his own feelings. And he still doesn't know what the warden feels. 'I have no better way to say it' sums it up.

The writing is great, I agree. And the voice acting and the facial expressions. I can't believe I have actually seriously watched his face trying to pick up what he means from his expression - I forget that it's pixels, completely.

[Sresla]

Tellervo nails my sentiment.

Sannox - if you're looking for in game dialogue to give you direction for your character, you're always going to be a day late and a dollar short. I know I don't play that way (and that many of us don't - I doubt you do either). Even staying within the bounds of the dialogue in the strictest sense, there is so much subtext (from the Warden) that words alone will never be able to convey with emotional accuracy.

Let's use the line: Does this mean we're married in Antiva?

How many ways can the Warden say this? If you say it sarcastically, or jokingly, then him laughing is a perfectly reasonable response. But what if the Warden meant it seriously? Hopefully? (who'd even know, I rarely see any emotion cross the Warden's face at all). But from that standpoint, the laugh could be a bit off putting - it could be seen as him backing away from what the Warden is implying. Then for him to further go on and downplay it... It's taking another step backwards in the relationship.

My point being, NOTHING can be taken from JUST Zevran's viewpoint. There are two people involved in the conversation - one who's motivations is clear only in said Warden's head. Of course everything is "one sided" if you're not giving any emotional weight to anything you said or say.

(throws up hands) At this point, it feels like we're just arguing for the sake of it. It's cool to be polarized and maybe my viewpoint is skewed because I mentally have a lot of things happening "off screen" and so these conversations do have layers (like an onion) in my head.

Modifié par Sresla, 03 mai 2010 - 08:21 .