35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Sannox]

Ah, long post disappeared while I was writing.   That will teach me to write long posts.  And I bet the conversation has moved on now. 

If you think slavery is abuse, Zevran was abused.  And he mentions specific abuse (the oubliette, etc.)

His relationship with the Crows reminds me of an abusive relationship: the mind games, the control, the brainwashing, the rewards, the deprivation, the threats. 

Although he's a strong character and survives (apparently) emotionally intact, he was affected.   Look at how he reacts to loving and being loved the first time (Rinna).  

I do think he might be proud of being able to endure pain.  (And I've wondered if he was a natural masochist, because of his hints, and whether he managed to use that).  But putting somebody in that situation as a slave is abusive.  It's not the same as someone going through gruelling training that they have knowingly signed up for.

ETA: Oh, in the name of Andraste, what sort of picture is going to be appropriate to go with this post? 

There we go.  Zevran's serious face.

Modifié par Sannox, 03 mai 2010 - 06:27 .

[ejoslin]

Hahahaha, looking at the orzammar dialogs, there's one named orz300_nobleb!tch. She only appears if Harrowmont is king, though.

Edit: To get rid of the **** out part.

Modifié par ejoslin, 03 mai 2010 - 06:16 .

[ejoslin]

Elps wrote...

I've pondered that too & have my own theory (again, probably controversial)...
Zevran has never been master of his own destiny. At one stage he says he is not ambitious. That's fair enough since he has never been in a position to BE ambitious. However, since the age of 7 he has always had a controller. The last one was Taliesen, who he was emotionally involved with to at least some extent. The Warden has taken over the role Taliesen had in his life. 

When his first offer of the earring is turned down its really the first time in the relationship that Zev stands up for himself. The second time he makes a stand is when he refuses to go to the tent. Even when the Warden does things he disapproves of, he can usually be persuaded, so, for me, the earring & tent are examples of him feeling more independent and less reliant on his controller/boss. 

Early on, Zev asks about what will happen when the Blight is ended and basically asks, "but what if I want to stay?" People can RP that however they like but the first time I heard that my thoughts went like, "this guy is used to being part of a group, led by a strong individual, protected by a team - oops! Dependency issues!"
I can't quite shake that first impression. 

Nothing controversial about an interpretation.

In that conversation you're speaking of, he to me seems to be pinning down what exactly the relationship is.  Later on, after defeating Taliesen, if given the choice, he will leave unless he and the warden have an active romance.  He has just gone from being a slave to the crows to pledging himself to the warden.  There are a few party banters where he pretty much refers to himself as such (telling Morrigan that not being able to choose one's master is a fate worse than death).

Anyway, that conversation has some interesting script notes.  In it, if you go the friendship track, he's intrigued by the idea of a friend as he's never had one before.

Edit: However, if you tell him straight out there IS nothing more that is going to happen, he assumes he will be released after the blight thing is done.  But in the conversation, he is assuming that he in fact is indentured to the warden.

Modifié par ejoslin, 03 mai 2010 - 06:28 .

[Nonvita]

Elps wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Quote

Quote

I don't think that being dependent on others and being self-confident are mutually exclusive, though. Zevran is clearly confident at what he does, regardless of whether or not he has others there to guide him. He considered himself the greatest Crow there is, is completely confident at his ability as a lover, clearly had the audacity to stand up to his torturers and tell them he could handle more, etc.

I also don't think he was entirely dependent on Taliesan. Most of his missions were not done with Taliesan at his side, and in the Rinna case he did show some opposition to some things Taliesan says. I think he was forced, for the most part, to be somewhat dependent on others in order to survive, but I don't think he has become completely dependent. To add, he does stand up to the Warden sometimes, albeit only vocally, as he will not actually turn against the Warden for killing the elves or mages. But his training has dictated that he be subservient to his superiors, so that is natural.

[Tellervo]

My dears, my lovelies, I have pulled a jaw muscle (don't ask what I was doing), and I will be unable to eat, talk, work, etc. for at least tonight, until it's less excruciating. The keyboard is my only viable form of communication and my only sustenance will be the lulz you bring me.

[Sannox]

I don't see Zevran as dependent. He doesn't take any looking after. He's happy to act as support rather than lead - to me, that's not at all the same as being dependent. If anything the warden is more dependent on his support. (He's dependent on the warden's protection, but that's not the same as being emotionally dependent. I'm not sure if I'm explaning myself well).

I don't get the impression that he was controlled by Taliesin or dependent on him, although it could probably be read that way. Isn't it Zevran who chooses the merchant contract where they end up killing Rinna? And Taliesin comes along on Zevran's request?

I don't actually see the earring and the tent refusal as him standing up for himself, as such. I think he's genuinely confused. But he does stand up for himself at other times - he will not allow you to criticise him over certain things.

[Sannox]

Tellervo wrote...

My dears, my lovelies, I have pulled a jaw muscle (don't ask what I was doing), and I will be unable to eat, talk, work, etc. for at least tonight, until it's less excruciating. The keyboard is my only viable form of communication and my only sustenance will be the lulz you bring me.

Oh, poor you.  I won't ask.  I'll just imagine.  No,I'm sure it's not funny.  Pulled muscles are painful things.  Hope it's better soon.

Modifié par Sannox, 03 mai 2010 - 06:42 .

[UpiH]

Ouch, sorry to hear that - doesn't laughing hurt, too, then? I mean we better talk seriously if that's the case.

[Tellervo]

I very rarely laugh IRL, though I may be amused to others' "laughter" threshold. No worries.

[Sannox]

Very NSFW.  (Just looking for pictures to cheer people up!). ETA: Maybe too NSFW!  Link removed.

Modifié par Sannox, 03 mai 2010 - 08:07 .

[soignee]

Tellervo wrote...

My dears, my lovelies, I have pulled a jaw muscle (don't ask what I was doing), and I will be unable to eat, talk, work, etc. for at least tonight, until it's less excruciating. The keyboard is my only viable form of communication and my only sustenance will be the lulz you bring me.

Oh noes! Here, prince knows what to do:

[Tellervo]

Sannox wrote...

Oh, poor you.  I won't ask.  I'll just imagine.  No,I'm sure it's not funny.  Pulled muscles are painful things.  Hope it's better soon.

It's okay to laugh.  I would be if it didn't hurt so much.

@Soignee: Oh yeah, that's the stuff.

[soignee]

Tellervo wrote...

Sannox wrote...

Oh, poor you.  I won't ask.  I'll just imagine.  No,I'm sure it's not funny.  Pulled muscles are painful things.  Hope it's better soon.

It's okay to laugh.  I would be if it didn't hurt so much.

@Soignee: Oh yeah, that's the stuff.

Prince even makes you some tea. You may not be able to drink it properly, but holding it against your jaw might help!

[Sarah1281]

ejoslin wrote...

Hahahaha, looking at the orzammar dialogs, there's one named orz300_nobleb!tch. She only appears if Harrowmont is king, though.

Edit: To get rid of the **** out part.

That sounds intriguing. I know Lady Dace is a b!tch if you support Harrowmont (and pretty much every other time you talk to her), but she has a name so I don't think it would be her. Is it the noble who refuses to send her sons to fight in a surface war or is it someone else?

[UpiH]

Meet the Trancess

Modifié par UpiH, 03 mai 2010 - 07:25 .

[soignee]

Sarah1281 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Hahahaha, looking at the orzammar dialogs, there's one named orz300_nobleb!tch. She only appears if Harrowmont is king, though.

Edit: To get rid of the **** out part.

That sounds intriguing. I know Lady Dace is a b!tch if you support Harrowmont (and pretty much every other time you talk to her), but she has a name so I don't think it would be her. Is it the noble who refuses to send her sons to fight in a surface war or is it someone else?

she calls you a wh*re noble hunter too if you're casteless scum. FFFFFFFFFFFFF-

UpiH wrote...

Meet
the Trancess

D: D: D: THIS IS GENUINELY HALF LULZY HALF DISTURBING oh god what is that i don't even

Modifié par soignee, 03 mai 2010 - 07:17 .

[Sarah1281]

soignee wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Hahahaha, looking at the orzammar dialogs, there's one named orz300_nobleb!tch. She only appears if Harrowmont is king, though.

Edit: To get rid of the **** out part.

That sounds intriguing. I know Lady Dace is a b!tch if you support Harrowmont (and pretty much every other time you talk to her), but she has a name so I don't think it would be her. Is it the noble who refuses to send her sons to fight in a surface war or is it someone else?

she calls you a wh*re noble hunter too if you're casteless scum. FFFFFFFFFFFFF-

And if you're not she assumes you're a messenger and if you tell her that you're the DN she snootily declares you dead and tells you to stop bothering her. And her 'So I hear you put another Aeducan on the throne. How ever is the surface gettin by without you' still pisses me off whenever I side with Bhelen.

[Sresla]

I think there was a typo.

Tellervo wrote...

My dears, my lovelies, I have pulled a jaw muscle (don't ask what I was doing), and I will be unable to eat, talk, work, etc. for at least tonight, until it's less excruciating. The keyboard is my only viable form of communication and my only sustenance will be the lulz you bring me.

So I fixed it for you, to prevent undue strain on your fingers. Since you'll be using your hands all day. So, what is it you were doing? I'm all ears, as we elves like to say. :innocent:

[Sarah1281]

You can suggest to the werewolves killing the Dalish and if Zevran's there there's an opportunity for him to talk you out of it. You can't change your mind verbally if you agree with Cullen to kill the mages so make sure ou either save the game beforehand or removed Wynne from your party post-Fade because otherwise she'll make you kill her. Note: it doesn't matter what you tell Cullen, if you save Irving and don't disagree with Greagoir's inital 'everything's fine now' then you still save the Circle.

[Nonvita]

Sarah1281 wrote...

You can suggest to the werewolves killing the Dalish and if Zevran's there there's an opportunity for him to talk you out of it. You can't change your mind verbally if you agree with Cullen to kill the mages so make sure ou either save the game beforehand or removed Wynne from your party post-Fade because otherwise she'll make you kill her. Note: it doesn't matter what you tell Cullen, if you save Irving and don't disagree with Greagoir's inital 'everything's fine now' then you still save the Circle.

Ejoslin has a mod that changes it so you can allow Zevran to change your mind with the mages, though I think she was a little unhappy with the flow of it. Still, if you want to see his plea, you might consider trying it out.

As for the Dalish plea, I don't have the exact dialogue, but he mentions how his mother was Dalish and that although he holds no allegiance to them, it is meaningless to slaughter them in that way.

And here's his sad face:

[jenovan]

Sresla wrote...

I think there was a typo.

Tellervo wrote...

My dears, my lovelies, I have pulled a jaw muscle (don't ask what I was doing), and I will be unable to eat, talk, work, etc. for at least tonight, until it's less excruciating. The keyboard is my only viable form of communication and my only sustenance will be the lulz you bring me.

So I fixed it for you, to prevent undue strain on your fingers. Since you'll be using your hands all day. So, what is it you were doing? I'm all ears, as we elves like to say.

I think reality shakes a little when Sresla feels the need to pull out the halo emote.

dream_operator23 wrote...

Is there somewhere online to read what Zevran says if you decide to kill the Dalish? I've heard so much about his plea, but I can't bear to even suggest killing the Dalish because I love them so much and am often a Dalish warden.

(I've also never heard his plea for the mages either. Even though I think there is more of a reason to side with the templars than against the Dalish, I still always save the mages)

I'm playing a male Dalish warden right now and am toying with the idea of starting a romance with Zev. I've never done a male/male romance before. ^^

I'm hoping someone with access to the toolset will pop up with those lines for you!  As far as I know, they're not listed in the Wiki or anything, unfortunately.

As far as playing an m/m romance with Zevran, from what I've seen here, it's really not hugely different from playing m/f... Some of the lines of dialogue are tailored a bit differently, but the structure, pace, events, etc. of the relationship stay the same, as do the general content of the conversations. :3  It may give a bit of a different feel, though, I suppose.  (Looking forward to finding out, but my Dalish chick hasn't been ambushed yet. XD)

[ejoslin]

dream_operator23 wrote...

Is there somewhere online to read what Zevran says if you decide to kill the Dalish? I've heard so much about his plea, but I can't bear to even suggest killing the Dalish because I love them so much and am often a Dalish warden.

(I've also never heard his plea for the mages either. Even though I think there is more of a reason to side with the templars than against the Dalish, I still always save the mages)

I'm playing a male Dalish warden right now and am toying with the idea of starting a romance with Zev. I've never done a male/male romance before. ^^

Zevran: Are you truly going to do this? Slaughter the Dalish? (uneasy)
Warden: Yes, and you are going to help.
Zevran: My mother was Dalish. Or so I'm told. I hold no allegiance for them, but this... does not sit well with me. Do not do this thing, I beg you. (uneasy, he's not one to take the moral stance very often)

Warden: All right. I will find another way.
Zevran: Thank you. I would do as you ask, if you asked it, but... thank you. (glad that the slaughter has been averted)

OR (persuade check)
Warden: This is the best way. Trust me.

Zevran: (passed check) Perhaps you are right. I should not have mentioned it. (glum)

Zevran: (failed check) How is this the best way? You would punish the Dalish for something Zathrian did? (slightly angry)
Warden: The werewolves will make better allies.
Zevran: So it is to be a Grey Warden sacrifice. I see. (icy)

Edit: For the mages, as Nonvita said, I made a small mod that allows you to hear his plea without having to kill Wynne.  I do need to fix it and take out the option of changing your mind after doing the persuade check, but other than that I think it's ok. I made it possible to back out in more than one place -- it just didn't work AFTER the persuade check.  It works very well before it.  Nonvita actually did the wording and I didn't do it justice!

Second edit: My favorite of those little mods actually is the Ser Perth one, where you can let Zevran change your mind about using the oil!  Flaming undead IS bad!  

Modifié par ejoslin, 03 mai 2010 - 08:34 .