Why of course! I will say that I'm not a fan of his armor in this one but I deleted the save point so can't go back and re-take it, alas. Next playthrough!
ever try the winterforge mod? lets you take that fugly purple armor and make it look awesome~
What's the (Romantic) Appeal of Zevran?
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#2701
Posté 17 février 2010 - 06:20
Cuddlezarro
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ever try the winterforge mod? lets you take that fugly purple armor and make it look awesome~
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#2702
Posté 17 février 2010 - 09:59
EccentricSage
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I'm a bisexual female who never felt any desire to wed, nor bare offspring. I prefer people who are straight forward and competent about things like friendship and sex. I'd much rather put up with Zevran running around on me, than with Alistair wanting me to be his mommy. Zevran strikes me as the type of guy who I could tell up front what I want and don't want, and who will then respect that. He would tease, to be certain, but I also find ball busting humor perfectly agreeable. I am also a pervert who's mind tends to go straight to the gutter. For me, his overall manner is perfect.
As for the depths of his personality... This is a man who has had arguably the WORSE circumstances to grow up in. The fact that he was raised in a ****house and admits to being beaten leads me to wonder what else they did to him. I doubt their world lacks child prostitution. Then he is sold as a slave to the Crows, at seven, where he is subjected to some manner of brutal training which I remember him saying few survive. AT SEVEN. Seriously. He's had very few joys in life, and his early childhood involved little love and affection. It makes sense, psychologically, that sex replaced normal means of bonding with and understanding other people. It makes sence that he would try to bury his emotions, not acnowlege his own feelings, and would feal the need when first meeting you to CONSTANTLY reaffirm that he's OK with the life he's had, that he in fact likes it. This is how he has found some shreds of happyness to keep him alive.
He's strong. Despite everything he's maintained a sense of individuality and pride. A sense of identity and worth that was only challenged when he made that dreadful mistake, out of fear, and mocked the woman he loved as she died. The realization that her life and his meant nothing hurt so badly that he chose a suicide mission. I think that says a lot about the heart he hides. Frankly to ask him to feel shame for anything except that one mistake is asking far too much. The man's sence of dignity despite his position in life and despite how others view him was hard won. He's paid more dues than most of the companions. So for him I had the most admeration and respect. And how could a girl, or in the case of my character a male Dalish, NOT want to reafirm that this man's life holds value? If you realy give the character's background and psychology some deep thought, he is the ultimate wounded bird, yet he has no victim complex, and tries to chearfuly wave away any show of pity. He is ideal, from my point of view, and my philosophy.
Besides, though your character couldn't be sure of this, he does turn out to be incredibly loyal... arguably more so than Alistair. Once you win Zevran's loyalty, he will follow you to hell and back, and cheerfully, too.
Oh, and did I forget to mention his intellect? The man argues circles around the other NPCs, is highly observant, can playfully manipulate people into revealing more of their personality, has a hard won and in my opinion very wise life philosophy.... God damn, if that's not sexy, what is?
And with the practice he's had, that lust for life he has, and that creative mind of his, he would be an absolute GOD in bed. I would argue it would be a crime to reign him in too much. LOL
As for the depths of his personality... This is a man who has had arguably the WORSE circumstances to grow up in. The fact that he was raised in a ****house and admits to being beaten leads me to wonder what else they did to him. I doubt their world lacks child prostitution. Then he is sold as a slave to the Crows, at seven, where he is subjected to some manner of brutal training which I remember him saying few survive. AT SEVEN. Seriously. He's had very few joys in life, and his early childhood involved little love and affection. It makes sense, psychologically, that sex replaced normal means of bonding with and understanding other people. It makes sence that he would try to bury his emotions, not acnowlege his own feelings, and would feal the need when first meeting you to CONSTANTLY reaffirm that he's OK with the life he's had, that he in fact likes it. This is how he has found some shreds of happyness to keep him alive.
He's strong. Despite everything he's maintained a sense of individuality and pride. A sense of identity and worth that was only challenged when he made that dreadful mistake, out of fear, and mocked the woman he loved as she died. The realization that her life and his meant nothing hurt so badly that he chose a suicide mission. I think that says a lot about the heart he hides. Frankly to ask him to feel shame for anything except that one mistake is asking far too much. The man's sence of dignity despite his position in life and despite how others view him was hard won. He's paid more dues than most of the companions. So for him I had the most admeration and respect. And how could a girl, or in the case of my character a male Dalish, NOT want to reafirm that this man's life holds value? If you realy give the character's background and psychology some deep thought, he is the ultimate wounded bird, yet he has no victim complex, and tries to chearfuly wave away any show of pity. He is ideal, from my point of view, and my philosophy.
Besides, though your character couldn't be sure of this, he does turn out to be incredibly loyal... arguably more so than Alistair. Once you win Zevran's loyalty, he will follow you to hell and back, and cheerfully, too.
Oh, and did I forget to mention his intellect? The man argues circles around the other NPCs, is highly observant, can playfully manipulate people into revealing more of their personality, has a hard won and in my opinion very wise life philosophy.... God damn, if that's not sexy, what is?
And with the practice he's had, that lust for life he has, and that creative mind of his, he would be an absolute GOD in bed. I would argue it would be a crime to reign him in too much. LOL
#2703
Posté 17 février 2010 - 10:40
Sabriana
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Indeed, EccentricSage. I keep being surprised and baffled that people tend to forget that he knew nothing else in life than what he is at the moment he meets the PC. She is actually a turning point, and why should that not be scary to him?
The line "A massage that I learned in the wh*rehouse" always makes me flinch. He was 7 when he left the brothel. I tend to believe he was sold because the child was getting to old for the purposes he was used for in that wh*rehouse.
It also bothers me that people just shrug off his past. He was always a slave, whether in the brothel or later on in the Crows. His talk of being 'locked into cages, festering wounds' and later the scene in the fade, or the "if you can't do the training, you die". The sentence "Alas, being cold doesn't come natural to me." also doesn't seem to sink in. Of course, you only get that line if the PC doesn't pick the obvious "gain approval at all cost" or "lets be mean, nasty, and rude" dialogue choices.
In RL I am a hetero female and I only play female PCs. Even when I start out wanting to do the Alistair romance to the finish, all of my girls get caught up in Zevran, somehow. His strength, loyalty, honesty, his looking out for the PC, and his smarts always win the day for him and her.
Alistair is a sweet boy, and his romance is story book in the beginning. All the nice lines, all the 'be still my heart moments', but in the end, he is not mature enough for my PCs.
He's a good friend to them, and they all like him very much. I've not had the heart yet to kill him off at the Landsmeet, but I did let Loghain live several times. He will be married to Anora, and he will thwart her attempts to make a hero bigger than life out of Daddy.
I only let him sacrifice himself once (very first, unspoiled play-through), and that was because my Mage was all out of choices. Dumped publicly and hurt, she finally figured out that true love had been staring in her face all the while, and the 'Anora married Alistair' option was long gone by then.
She wanted to live for Zevran, and was unwilling to die for the country which hated her so much, simply because she's a mage. Despite sacrificing her whole life for it.
Edited: Spelling! Gah! What a bother.
The line "A massage that I learned in the wh*rehouse" always makes me flinch. He was 7 when he left the brothel. I tend to believe he was sold because the child was getting to old for the purposes he was used for in that wh*rehouse.
It also bothers me that people just shrug off his past. He was always a slave, whether in the brothel or later on in the Crows. His talk of being 'locked into cages, festering wounds' and later the scene in the fade, or the "if you can't do the training, you die". The sentence "Alas, being cold doesn't come natural to me." also doesn't seem to sink in. Of course, you only get that line if the PC doesn't pick the obvious "gain approval at all cost" or "lets be mean, nasty, and rude" dialogue choices.
In RL I am a hetero female and I only play female PCs. Even when I start out wanting to do the Alistair romance to the finish, all of my girls get caught up in Zevran, somehow. His strength, loyalty, honesty, his looking out for the PC, and his smarts always win the day for him and her.
Alistair is a sweet boy, and his romance is story book in the beginning. All the nice lines, all the 'be still my heart moments', but in the end, he is not mature enough for my PCs.
He's a good friend to them, and they all like him very much. I've not had the heart yet to kill him off at the Landsmeet, but I did let Loghain live several times. He will be married to Anora, and he will thwart her attempts to make a hero bigger than life out of Daddy.
I only let him sacrifice himself once (very first, unspoiled play-through), and that was because my Mage was all out of choices. Dumped publicly and hurt, she finally figured out that true love had been staring in her face all the while, and the 'Anora married Alistair' option was long gone by then.
She wanted to live for Zevran, and was unwilling to die for the country which hated her so much, simply because she's a mage. Despite sacrificing her whole life for it.
Edited: Spelling! Gah! What a bother.
Modifié par Sabriana, 17 février 2010 - 10:43 .
#2704
Posté 17 février 2010 - 11:57
EccentricSage
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Sabriana wrote...
Indeed, EccentricSage. I keep being surprised and baffled that people tend to forget that he knew nothing else in life than what he is at the moment he meets the PC. She is actually a turning point, and why should that not be scary to him?
The line "A massage that I learned in the wh*rehouse" always makes me flinch. He was 7 when he left the brothel. I tend to believe he was sold because the child was getting to old for the purposes he was used for in that wh*rehouse.
It also bothers me that people just shrug off his past. He was always a slave, whether in the brothel or later on in the Crows. His talk of being 'locked into cages, festering wounds' and later the scene in the fade, or the "if you can't do the training, you die". The sentence "Alas, being cold doesn't come natural to me." also doesn't seem to sink in. Of course, you only get that line if the PC doesn't pick the obvious "gain approval at all cost" or "lets be mean, nasty, and rude" dialogue choices.
In RL I am a hetero female and I only play female PCs. Even when I start out wanting to do the Alistair romance to the finish, all of my girls get caught up in Zevran, somehow. His strength, loyalty, honesty, his looking out for the PC, and his smarts always win the day for him and her.
Alistair is a sweet boy, and his romance is story book in the beginning. All the nice lines, all the 'be still my heart moments', but in the end, he is not mature enough for my PCs.
He's a good friend to them, and they all like him very much. I've not had the heart yet to kill him off at the Landsmeet, but I did let Loghain live several times. He will be married to Anora, and he will thwart her attempts to make a hero bigger than life out of Daddy.
I only let him sacrifice himself once (very first, unspoiled play-through), and that was because my Mage was all out of choices. Dumped publicly and hurt, she finally figured out that true love had been staring in her face all the while, and the 'Anora married Alistair' option was long gone by then.
She wanted to live for Zevran, and was unwilling to die for the country which hated her so much, simply because she's a mage. Despite sacrificing her whole life for it.
Edited: Spelling! Gah! What a bother.
Holy cheezus! D: I thought I was doing a realy good job of exploring Zevran's dialogue with my male elf, but aparently I missed some stuff. I never got the dialogue about locked in cages or festering wounds... but then, I'm not to Landsmeet yet, so maybe there will be new dialogue with him after we're confronted by Talisen?
I did make the mistake of moveing way to fast with him... I was the one to ask him to the tent while he was still at nuetral and then asked him about love. I knew there are consequences for this, but when I play, I play from my character's point of view. My male Dalish is heartbroken and homesick... He'd never 'bonded' as the elves call it, has a sheltered view of the world shaped only by clan life, and lost his best friend... feels maybe he could have done more. When he met Morrigan, he instantly took a liking to ker and Flemeth, because they know what it's like to be treeted so poorly and chased out of their homes, even murdered just for being what they are. Morrigan and Flemeth were very polite and apreciative of him for his manners as well. (He wanted to slap Alistair! I wish it had been an option!) But then Morrigan starts to reveal all these dark things about Flemeth, who had saved his life and seemed so grandmotherly to him. So he was so verry confused. As he gets to know Morrigan better, he falls for her more deaply, enamored with her, but he's also a bit frightened by a coldness and cruelty within her. He's realy not even sure if he should trust her when she says what Flemeth intends to do.... It's not like Morrigan showed him the passage in the Grimore/Journal. On top of that she keeps toying with him... on one hand she's cute and playful, but on the other hand, cunning and insensitive. So after she turned him away for the third time, just to pick on him, after their first time together, he got desperate and turned to Zevran.
He already cautiously LIKED Zevran... wanted this fellow elf to have a chance at freedom... but was still not sure what to belieave. So he did some more dialogue and got all those little stabby fealings in his heart at the way Zev's eyes and vocal inflections betrayed his true fealings when he spoke of being happy and lucky to be an Assassin. So he kind of went overboard after they slept together. couldn't help himself! But both Morrigan and Zevran were saying it's casual, that it won't go anywhere, so he was taken by surprise when Zev got jealous because he kissed Morrigan and really surpised when Zev made him choose. But there have been no new dialogue options since the storry about poor Rinna or being told the sex poem 'to chear him up'. Boy... the story that acompanies that poem isn't very good for chearing up. XD But it was an interesting conversation. At that point, Dristen (my character) wasn't sure weather to beleive that Zevran wasn't using the women, that it was realy these mercyfull cenarios that Zev makes it out to be. But he acsepts the reality of it, acsepts Zevran, even though he still kind of scares him sometimes. He knows Zevran won't do that to him, and he understands Zev's logic behind it. I mean, hell, if an assassin, who had no choice in being such, was sent to kill me, and he was a kind and charming man who offered me hours of pleasure before hand... well... I think I'd take that offer.
Anywho.. yeah... so that's my character's situation with Zev. Now he's unsure what to think of Morrigan, who IS still kind to him, and is at 100 adoration with Zev, whom he loves, and who he knows loves him in a way... at least as a friend with benifits. I don't see 'friend with benifits as lacking love, so long as the friend is loyal and not just useing you. Zev has opened up to Dristen about some pretty painfull things, and the fact that he has experienced love... so... obviously the relationship has a LOT of unspoken meaning behind it. Dristen is ok with that.
Oh... Also... OMG... It totally threw me, and Dristin, for a loop when it finaly dawned on us that Zevran sees himself as my slave and is perfectly happy with that... Telling ... I think it was Morrigan, that he's lucky, or something to that efect, to get to pick his master. That... wow... really shook me. Really makes you look back and re-evaluate everything.
So I am totally confused and anxious as to what comes next, and what type of ending their storry will have. The writers certainly have done a masterfull job.
And ah, yeah. I hate it when people blithly kill him even knowing that it takes so little effort to get him to 33+ so he'll be loyal. He's so easy to win friendship of... so easy going and non-judgemental. I like the fact that because he knows he does things others would see as immoral, he doesn't see fit to go around preaching to others or giving you massive disaprooval for half the choices you make. I swear... for someone who values freedom above all else, Morrigan sure is overbearing at times. And for someone who claims not to be very religious and to have hated being in the.... uh... monestary, or whatever they called it in Ferelden... for someone so rebelious and yet week willed, he sure has no problem ignorantly passing judgement on others without ever getting to know them. I love his sence of humor, he's Dristen's buddy and there are times Dristen wants to just hug him, or drag him back to his tent (Zevran has corupted the hell out of him. lol ), there are also times he wants to punch him in the face and tell him to shut up. But sadly confronting Alistair about his ignorance and hypocracy has never been in the dialogue options. ;_;
I feel... disguest with people who refuse to give zevran a chance, because I know that people who think that way will act that way IRL. I mean, when they say that their character killed him because the character thought it unwise to knowingly bring an assassin to camp, I can understand that. But the ones who bash the character, jeez... I can't imagine they are the most tolerant and thoughtfull people in real life. I can't stand that. It's what's wrong with the world. Once again I have to aplaud DA: O's writers for creating characters so deap and situations so provacative that it brings out these sides of people, and gets everyone talking about the hypotheticals that the game brings up. Hypotheticals that play out in real life in our world that we'd like to not think of. Pretty impresive.
And, also... (man I'm long winded tonight...) I love your character's storry. That makes great sence. Sad for Alistair, but he put HIMSELF in that position with the decisions he made/pestered you to make. If I had to choose, I would choose to live for Zevran and myself, too... Alistair... it's mean to say it... but he comes off as an ingratefull bastard who will waste his life being bitter over the smallest injustices he'll experience, without being willing to do a thing to stop the much more dire injustices that others, like the Elves and Mages, are subjected to. If he won't grow as a character then I can only care for him so much. He's probably happier sacraficing himself to be the holy warrior who stoped the Archdemon than having to actually deal with his responsabilities. I heard that in one of the endings, if you make yourself king, he becomes some drunkard ... I'm not surprised.
And to hell with spelling. Firefox, at the moment, is refusing to critique me.
#2705
Posté 17 février 2010 - 12:02
ejoslin
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Raiynsong wrote...
Just got the whole shebang from massage through Rinna. Much as I love Alistair's sexy voice and naivete, I think I'm a Zev girl for life....
Yeh, I cannot go a game without romancing Zevran. I may try, I'll even start the romance with Alistair, but when my character is forced to choose (and she will be, I just can't help that), I go for Zev. And when he actually falls in love . . .
Ok, I'm adding NOTHING to the discussion here.
Edit: Well, nothing but squee at least. I have to admit, there is something so compelling about this relationship, how it goes from shallow to far deeper than even Alistair at his finest moment. And I like the Alistair romance (believe it or not), but wowza on the Zevran one. I actually like Zevran's voice better than Alistair's, but I didn't start that way for sure. Both the voice actors, mmmmmmm.
Modifié par ejoslin, 17 février 2010 - 12:19 .
#2706
Posté 17 février 2010 - 12:12
ejoslin
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Hi EccentricSage! Amazing posts; thank you so much. I agree with so much of what you say.
Yes, Zevran's dialogs are the very best when you take small dings -- he's so easy to raise anyway.
I will say that I think Zevran is far more likely to be faithful than Alistair. There's absolutely no indication that Zevran actually messes around. Even in the party banter, if you listen to it for awhile, when he hits on people, he's taking potshots. Wynne kept prying into things that made him uncomfortable, so he returned the favor. Leliana, he challenged her goody-two-shoes image of herself. Alistair, obviously not serious. Morrigan, a bet. Oghren, no, really, even less serious than Alistair. This is all in the female playthrough.
The reason I think Zevran would not ever cheat is because how sex and love, at the end, become mixed up for him.
Anyway, I am so torn about the slavery thing -- I see what you're saying, and I agree, especially since if not romanced he does ask for his freedom after Taliesen. Though he feels free after Taliesen, so his staying is his choice. He also says to Alistair in a party banter that what he does afterwards is up to the warden as he is "not a free man so to speak." It can be taken as a romance line I suppose, but it's not -- it's there no matter what.
But Zevran is also fiercely independent, and he WILL leave in the right circumstances, after Taliesen is dead. So at the end, he is there completely of his own choice, and even if he feels like a slave at some level, it's of his choosing.
Edit: I always have my character tell Leliana, when the option comes up, that Zevran does not belong to her, and is not her elven slave. But I have no doubt that Zevran sees himself as one. That's all he's ever been.
Yes, Zevran's dialogs are the very best when you take small dings -- he's so easy to raise anyway.
I will say that I think Zevran is far more likely to be faithful than Alistair. There's absolutely no indication that Zevran actually messes around. Even in the party banter, if you listen to it for awhile, when he hits on people, he's taking potshots. Wynne kept prying into things that made him uncomfortable, so he returned the favor. Leliana, he challenged her goody-two-shoes image of herself. Alistair, obviously not serious. Morrigan, a bet. Oghren, no, really, even less serious than Alistair. This is all in the female playthrough.
The reason I think Zevran would not ever cheat is because how sex and love, at the end, become mixed up for him.
Anyway, I am so torn about the slavery thing -- I see what you're saying, and I agree, especially since if not romanced he does ask for his freedom after Taliesen. Though he feels free after Taliesen, so his staying is his choice. He also says to Alistair in a party banter that what he does afterwards is up to the warden as he is "not a free man so to speak." It can be taken as a romance line I suppose, but it's not -- it's there no matter what.
But Zevran is also fiercely independent, and he WILL leave in the right circumstances, after Taliesen is dead. So at the end, he is there completely of his own choice, and even if he feels like a slave at some level, it's of his choosing.
Edit: I always have my character tell Leliana, when the option comes up, that Zevran does not belong to her, and is not her elven slave. But I have no doubt that Zevran sees himself as one. That's all he's ever been.
Modifié par ejoslin, 17 février 2010 - 12:33 .
#2707
Posté 17 février 2010 - 12:42
EccentricSage
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ejoslin wrote...
Hi EccentricSage! Amazing posts; thank you so much.
Yes, Zevran's dialogs are the very best when you take small dings -- he's so easy to raise anyway.
I will say that I think Zevran is far more likely to be faithful than Alistair. There's absolutely no indication that Zevran actually messes around. Even in the party banter, if you listen to it for awhile, when he hits on people, he's taking potshots. Wynne kept prying into things that made him uncomfortable, so he returned the favor. Leliana, he challenged her goody-two-shoes image of herself. Alistair, obviously not serious. Morrigan, a bet. Oghren, no, really, even less serious than Alistair. This is all in the female playthrough.
The reason I think Zevran would not ever cheat is because how sex and love, at the end, become mixed up for him.
Anyway, I am so torn about the slavery thing -- I see what you're saying, and I agree, especially since if not romanced he does ask for his freedom after Taliesen. Though he feels free after Taliesen, so his staying is his choice. He also says to Alistair in a party banter that what he does afterwards is up to the warden as he is "not a free man so to speak."
But Zevran is also fiercely independent, and he WILL leave in the right circumstances, after Taliesen is dead. So at the end, he is there completely of his own choice, and even if he feels like a slave at some level, it's of his choosing.
I guess we enterpret his intentions diferently. I think he probably is interested in others, and probably isn't makeing up his stories of conquest... and you do meet that one lady at the Pearl whom you can have a possible threesome with.... who indicates she had the pleasure of Zevran before. But you see, I also don't see this as immoral at all. I know my views are not the norm, but I find the idea that love should mean that two people control and limit eachother actually doesn't make sence to me. It sounds most unpleasant. So, from my perspective, if Zev were ever to have infedelities, I wouldn't see it as a betrayal unless he made a promise to the character to be monogomous. And even then, such a minor betrayal.
I mean, I know he wasn't realy interested in Oghren, but then, Zevran flat out says so. While I apreciate the way he exposes and confronts other characters with their own hypocracies and such, I also think there really might be the intention of putting the idea out there, because you never know if they might become interested. He said Rinna called him insuferable at first, after all, yet they fell in love. XD But yeah... I think in many cases, he's only half joking. Why wouldn't he sleep with Leliana, Morrigan, or Alistair? Or be entrigued by sten and even Wynne. Given the option, I would have created a character to have a romance with Wynne. The things Zevran said in his dialogues with her are true... She's very beautiful for her age, powerful, 'cynical' wich I don't think is the best word, but he was trying to tease her, and she's very spirited. I loved the bit of dialogue about how her age shouldn't prevent her from experiencing life's pleasures. While his 'advice' sessions do tend to be uncomfortable for the characters, his advice is usualy perfectly good and seems well intended... Especialy in Wynne's case. I don't see it as that weird. Harrold and Maud is one of my favorite movies. lol
I think Zev's emotions were always mixed up with sex. I think it was the only way he could let himself experience fealings, was through sex. Just look at how you get aprooval points every time you bed him... You can literally **** your way into his heart. At first I thought he realy did just use the victims he slept with, but then, the more I noticed his strong fealings about sex and it's role in life, the more I beleved that it realy was, in many cases at least, from his perspective at least, an act of kindness and sympathy. There are people like this in real life, people who feal very strongly about sex, no matter who it's with. People for whom sex is the absolute epitomy of expression. To me, this does make sence. I don't understand people who choose to seperate sex from ... everything else, and turn it into a mere act. I think that's kind of sad. I'd make a great hippy. Free love, man. Shame about STDs. That realy puts a damper on everything fun and wonderous in real life. But in the game's world, that doesn't seem to be a problem. Or maybe it's just that they don't expect to live long, so it's worth the risk.
Yeah, I noticed that too. lol He is an interesting one. You know, I wonder if he feals he is your slave, and thus talks about how you are his master and such so that the others are more at ease. They were not happy at first, thinking he may just be plotting. If he makes a show of giveing up control to you, it would make them feal safer and more comfortable around him. Which is still kind of a tragic thought. But that's part of Zevran's beauty... he's got a grace about him no matter what situation he's in. Then, of course, if something happens that makes him feal he needs to escape his 'new master', well, yeah. But he's still 'escaping the master'. From my Dalish's perspective, he has fallen hard for Zev and acsepts him the way he is. At Landsmeet I intend to tell him that I want him to stay, instead of telling him to be free, because from by character's perspective, making him doubt how badly he's desired for even a moment seems to cruel, and my Dristen just wants to protect him.
I'll go the other rought with the Male Noble I created... He'll start out cold and controlling... all the perverse dialogue about pounding and such, and ravaging him in victory. But learning about what Zevran has lived through will change his perspective on this power exchange that he mistakingly thought was willingly given to him and earned by him for sparing the assassins life. He will learn to respect Zevran more than the rest, and will make a big point of making him choose for himself.
But I haven't actually gotten very far in that file yet. I wonder what new surprises Zev will have in store for me?
Modifié par EccentricSage, 17 février 2010 - 12:55 .
#2708
Posté 17 février 2010 - 12:53
Sabriana
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Zevran even points out himself that he 'may be a thief, a murderer, a lover..., but not a cheat'. I (and my PC) always took that at face value.
If at a certain approval (I forget which value, though), the PC will take an approval hit ( -3, I think), from him, every time she kisses Alistair. Every time.
About the slave thing, I'm not sure about that either, yet. He might mean it as him keeping his oath to her, and just tosses 'master' and 'servant' around because that's his way of expressing it. He was, after all, a slave all his life. My PC made it very clear to him that she wouldn't hold him to his oath, and that he was free to leave at any time. You see, she let him live mainly because he was a slave. A slave who craved freedom. In her opinion, a slave has no choice but to do as told, or he will die. It's also her opinion that everyone deserves at least one shot at freedom.
Of course, that all goes by the wayside as soon as she and Zevran get to know each other
She was totally floored by his insistence to be asked to stay. "Is there no one I should stay for?" Lordy, she was really surprised, and I do believe that one intrigued her into wanting to learn more about him.
Clever elf, he is.
If at a certain approval (I forget which value, though), the PC will take an approval hit ( -3, I think), from him, every time she kisses Alistair. Every time.
About the slave thing, I'm not sure about that either, yet. He might mean it as him keeping his oath to her, and just tosses 'master' and 'servant' around because that's his way of expressing it. He was, after all, a slave all his life. My PC made it very clear to him that she wouldn't hold him to his oath, and that he was free to leave at any time. You see, she let him live mainly because he was a slave. A slave who craved freedom. In her opinion, a slave has no choice but to do as told, or he will die. It's also her opinion that everyone deserves at least one shot at freedom.
Of course, that all goes by the wayside as soon as she and Zevran get to know each other
She was totally floored by his insistence to be asked to stay. "Is there no one I should stay for?" Lordy, she was really surprised, and I do believe that one intrigued her into wanting to learn more about him.
Clever elf, he is.
#2709
Posté 17 février 2010 - 12:54
Creature 1
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Zevran slept with Isabela to get the opportunity to assassinate her husband. I think a lot of his conquests were while he was on business.EccentricSage wrote...
I guess we enterpret his intentions diferently. I think he probably is interested in others, and probably isn't makeing up his stories of conquest... and you do meet that one lady at the Pearl whom you can have a possible threesome with.... who indicates she had the pleasure of Zevran before. But you see, I also don't see this as immoral at all. I know my views are not the norm, but I find the idea that love should mean that two people control and limit eachother actually doesn't make sence to me. It sounds most unpleasant. So, from my perspective, if Zev were ever to have infedelities, I wouldn't see it as a betrayal unless he made a promise to the character to be monogomous. And even then, such a minor betrayal.
Mostly people think he isn't interested in other people because if your Warden dies the epilogue (although potentially ambiguous) suggests he never had another lover. Additionally, he says in dialogue at one point (probably while romancing him and someone else, I haven't run across it) that he's not a cheater. Of course if he and the Warden don't consider it cheating, it's not, but those are the main reasons for thinking he wants to be exclusive.
#2710
Posté 17 février 2010 - 12:57
AndreaDraco
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I like to think that Zevran - even if the Warden is still well and alive - will perhaps have some bad partners - maybe women, if the Warden is male; or men, if the Warden is female -, but that his love is utterly, totally, completely, exclusively for the Warden.
#2711
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:01
ejoslin
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Ooooh, I was NOT claiming that he is anything OTHER than what you're saying. He was an assassin who used seduction as one method of getting close to his marks. I'm talking about after he falls in love. Isabela's (the duelist in the pearl) husband was a mark. It's very clear that their affair was business (that they both enjoyed a lot), he was having sex with her to get close to her husband, and once Zevran killed him, he disappeared.
But at the end . . . he won't have sex with the warden until he gets a real commitment from him or her. At that point, the sex becomes an expression of love. He also will stay with the warden if they marry Alistair (not romanced) or Anora, but he is NOT happy about it at all (heh, some disagree with me on this because he makes a couple of jokes during that conversation, but the conversation ends on a note where it's pretty obvious he's upset, but more relieved).
Edit: I feel the need to say again, I just can't get past the fact that at the end sex DOES change for him and has meaning, where it never did before. It was a tool before the warden, one he enjoyed a lot, but still, a tool, but it becomes an expression of love after he falls in love, and it confuses him completely.
Second edit: It's a wonderful thing about the writing, that there's enough ambiguity there that we can all have such wildly different interpretations. One thing that is not doubted by anyone, though, is that at the end Zevran is completely in love and devoted to the warden. That is, if the romance has been completed.
Third edit (gah, maybe I should just make a new post): Doesn't one of the writers say that once Zevran is romanced, he's as faithful as any of the other romance partners?
But at the end . . . he won't have sex with the warden until he gets a real commitment from him or her. At that point, the sex becomes an expression of love. He also will stay with the warden if they marry Alistair (not romanced) or Anora, but he is NOT happy about it at all (heh, some disagree with me on this because he makes a couple of jokes during that conversation, but the conversation ends on a note where it's pretty obvious he's upset, but more relieved).
Edit: I feel the need to say again, I just can't get past the fact that at the end sex DOES change for him and has meaning, where it never did before. It was a tool before the warden, one he enjoyed a lot, but still, a tool, but it becomes an expression of love after he falls in love, and it confuses him completely.
Second edit: It's a wonderful thing about the writing, that there's enough ambiguity there that we can all have such wildly different interpretations. One thing that is not doubted by anyone, though, is that at the end Zevran is completely in love and devoted to the warden. That is, if the romance has been completed.
Third edit (gah, maybe I should just make a new post): Doesn't one of the writers say that once Zevran is romanced, he's as faithful as any of the other romance partners?
Modifié par ejoslin, 17 février 2010 - 01:10 .
#2712
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:10
EccentricSage
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In my case, Zevran said he makes no claim on me, but that he knows Morrigan will not share, so he needs me to choose, because he won't be a cheat. So, by cheat, he means he doesn't want to have Morrigan cheated on because of him. I was surprised, and thought it was kind of him, but was also suspicious that he was just using that as the excuse when I know he's jealous. lol I agree... I think if he is asked not to sleep with others, he will be true. He's such a passionet person. But at the same time, I don't want to assume too much... I do like the idea of him being as liberal about sex as he makes himself out to be. It's so rare for people like that to be shown in a positive light. It would be nice, from my perspective, to have a character who doesn't fall into the normal boundaries of romance... *sigh*
Oooooh... and... I remember reading about that ending where you die... it said he'd never love again. So basically, he might still have sex, in that case. I imagine as far as coping he might revert to some of his old survival techniques, though I like to think, given his freedom and love, that he wouldn't revert entirely.
But I am actually a bit disapointed to hear that he becomes as jealous a lover as he does. That's actually less romantic to me.
Oooooh... and... I remember reading about that ending where you die... it said he'd never love again. So basically, he might still have sex, in that case. I imagine as far as coping he might revert to some of his old survival techniques, though I like to think, given his freedom and love, that he wouldn't revert entirely.
But I am actually a bit disapointed to hear that he becomes as jealous a lover as he does. That's actually less romantic to me.
Modifié par EccentricSage, 17 février 2010 - 01:14 .
#2713
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:11
Sabriana
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Well, it all depends on the player, her/his RPing and such, but I, personally, think that Zevran will stay monogamous in all ways. Sex is completely connected to love for him at the end, in my view.
I do think the epilogue card is a bit ambiguous, but there is that one little word that tells me that he never did take anyone else to bed and heart.
****Caution****Epilogue Spoiler ahead****Caution****
It says he was 'offered' (or it could be 'presented', not sure) many bed partners, but never loved another. If the word 'offered' was cut out, then yes, it wouldn't be ambiguous.
If it said "he had many other bed-partners" it would be clear, of course, so that little word throws things into question.
***End of Spoiler***
But like I said, it solely depends on the player. Me, personally, think that my PC and Zevran are happily wrapped up in each other in all ways, while rebuilding the Grey Wardens. She has chucked all ties with the nobility (not, of course the family ties), and is a Grey Warden only now. She has no needs that he can't fulfill, and vice versa. (Disneyland? What do you mean by that exactly? Pfft)
I do think the epilogue card is a bit ambiguous, but there is that one little word that tells me that he never did take anyone else to bed and heart.
****Caution****Epilogue Spoiler ahead****Caution****
It says he was 'offered' (or it could be 'presented', not sure) many bed partners, but never loved another. If the word 'offered' was cut out, then yes, it wouldn't be ambiguous.
If it said "he had many other bed-partners" it would be clear, of course, so that little word throws things into question.
***End of Spoiler***
But like I said, it solely depends on the player. Me, personally, think that my PC and Zevran are happily wrapped up in each other in all ways, while rebuilding the Grey Wardens. She has chucked all ties with the nobility (not, of course the family ties), and is a Grey Warden only now. She has no needs that he can't fulfill, and vice versa. (Disneyland? What do you mean by that exactly? Pfft)
#2714
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:14
ejoslin
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EccentricSage wrote...
In my case, Zevran said he makes no claim on me, but that he knows Morrigan will not share, so he needs me to choose, because he won't be a cheat. So, by cheat, he means he doesn't want to have Morrigan cheated on because of him. I was surprised, and thought it was kind of him, but was also suspicious that he was just using that as the excuse when I know he's jealous. lol I agree... I think if he is asked not to sleep with others, he will be true. He's such a passionet person. But at the same time, I don't want to assume too much... I do like the idea of him being as liberal about sex as he makes himself out to be. It's so rare for people like that to be shown in a positive light. It would be nice, from my perspective, to have a character who doesn't fall into the normal boundaries of romance... *sigh*
Oooooh... and... I remember reading about that ending... it said he'd never love again. So basically, he might still have sex, in that case. I imagine as far as coping he might revert to some of his old survival techniques, though I like to think, given his freedom and love, that he wouldn't revert entirely.
But like I said, I see nothing amoral about his sexual deviancy. I LIKE it... I hope in future installments I turn out to be right... because... well... I really like him that way... the dashing, perverted rogue... the lady slayer... figuratively nowadays, of course... ; p
The epilogue card reads as such (HUGE ending spoiler -- but I cut out most of it, just leaving in the last sentence):
He maintained a distance from his former comrades even then, and despite frequent offers of new bedmates, never loved again.
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He had a lot of offers, but there is no indication there that he took anyone up on them.
Edit: He does say he makes no claim on the warden, that they can pursue their fancies, but that also happens before he falls in love. After he falls in love, he changes. He doesn't like the thought of the Warden being married, even though it's just political, though he can understand it. If you do not show him the same level of commitment (other than the political marriage), he breaks up. He ends up loving the warden completely, and that's all that's important to him.
Then again, this IS a roleplaying game. My guess is, in future installments, it will be a bit like it is in this game, where you can choose dialog choices that give things a different meaning. Because we all have things we find very special about Zevran, and he is a bit different to all of us.
Modifié par ejoslin, 17 février 2010 - 01:18 .
#2715
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:18
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ejoslin wrote...
EccentricSage wrote...
In my case, Zevran said he makes no claim on me, but that he knows Morrigan will not share, so he needs me to choose, because he won't be a cheat. So, by cheat, he means he doesn't want to have Morrigan cheated on because of him. I was surprised, and thought it was kind of him, but was also suspicious that he was just using that as the excuse when I know he's jealous. lol I agree... I think if he is asked not to sleep with others, he will be true. He's such a passionet person. But at the same time, I don't want to assume too much... I do like the idea of him being as liberal about sex as he makes himself out to be. It's so rare for people like that to be shown in a positive light. It would be nice, from my perspective, to have a character who doesn't fall into the normal boundaries of romance... *sigh*
Oooooh... and... I remember reading about that ending... it said he'd never love again. So basically, he might still have sex, in that case. I imagine as far as coping he might revert to some of his old survival techniques, though I like to think, given his freedom and love, that he wouldn't revert entirely.
But like I said, I see nothing amoral about his sexual deviancy. I LIKE it... I hope in future installments I turn out to be right... because... well... I really like him that way... the dashing, perverted rogue... the lady slayer... figuratively nowadays, of course... ; p
The epilogue card reads as such (HUGE ending spoiler -- but I cut out most of it, just leaving in the last sentence):
He maintained a distance from his former comrades even then, and despite frequent offers of new bedmates, never loved again.
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He had a lot of offers, but there is no indication there that he took anyone up on them.
Oh god... D: That sounds like the worst possible ending... Returning to the Crows, PLUSS never allowing himself love again, and quite possibly not even being able to find pleasure and escape in sex anymore... D: What a wreched and miserable life. And the idea of him being a Crow again... ;_; After everything... It sounds like he ends up more cold hearted in a way than before. Like loosing you broke him once and for all. How gut wrenching. D:
Modifié par EccentricSage, 17 février 2010 - 01:20 .
#2716
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:19
ejoslin
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EccentricSage wrote...
Oh god... D: That sounds like the worst possible ending... Returning to the Crows, PLUSS never allowing himself love again, and quite possibly not even being able to find pleasure and escape in sex anymore... D: What a wreched and miserable life. And the idea of him being a Crow again... ;_; After everything...
It's worse than you can see here. If you'd like, I can post the entire card. It's horrible, but I've posted it here before.
Edit: Ok, I will post the entire card anyway. Don't read it if you don't want your heart completely broken . . . And his face at the funeral . .. ugh.
Modifié par ejoslin, 17 février 2010 - 01:27 .
#2717
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:21
EccentricSage
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ejoslin wrote...
EccentricSage wrote...
Oh god... D: That sounds like the worst possible ending... Returning to the Crows, PLUSS never allowing himself love again, and quite possibly not even being able to find pleasure and escape in sex anymore... D: What a wreched and miserable life. And the idea of him being a Crow again... ;_; After everything...
It's worse than you can see here. If you'd like, I can post the entire card. It's horrible, but I've posted it here before.
I'd like to see it, as I will be avoiding that ending at all cost. ;_; But I kind of want to know, from a storry perspactive.
#2718
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:25
ejoslin
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EDIT: MAJOR ENDING SPOILER. Epilogue card!
Zevran lingered in Denerim for a time, mourning the loss of his love and working for the Fereldan throne as a distraction. Eventually the Crows came after him once again and he elected to take the fight to their doorstep, returning to Antiva. After four master assassins disappeared, the Crows readmitted Zevran--as their leader. He maintained a distance from his former comrades even then, and despite frequent offers of new bedmates, never loved again.
Second edit: Pictures! Clicky if you want to see them larger. Funeral. Ugh.
Zevran lingered in Denerim for a time, mourning the loss of his love and working for the Fereldan throne as a distraction. Eventually the Crows came after him once again and he elected to take the fight to their doorstep, returning to Antiva. After four master assassins disappeared, the Crows readmitted Zevran--as their leader. He maintained a distance from his former comrades even then, and despite frequent offers of new bedmates, never loved again.
Second edit: Pictures! Clicky if you want to see them larger. Funeral. Ugh.
Modifié par ejoslin, 17 février 2010 - 01:29 .
#2719
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:27
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I'd seen the funeral screen cap before... Amazing how much emotion they were able to make him convey while at the same time, his expression is relatively blank... It's all in the eyes and tightness of his libs... and well... in seeing him be serious....
Oh... that's actually what I was responding to already... XD But yeah... that is... ugh... D:
Oh... that's actually what I was responding to already... XD But yeah... that is... ugh... D:
Modifié par EccentricSage, 17 février 2010 - 01:29 .
#2720
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:28
Sabriana
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EccentricSage wrote...
ejoslin wrote...
EccentricSage wrote...
Oh god... D: That sounds like the worst possible ending... Returning to the Crows, PLUSS never allowing himself love again, and quite possibly not even being able to find pleasure and escape in sex anymore... D: What a wreched and miserable life. And the idea of him being a Crow again... ;_; After everything...
It's worse than you can see here. If you'd like, I can post the entire card. It's horrible, but I've posted it here before.
I'd like to see it, as I will be avoiding that ending at all cost. ;_; But I kind of want to know, from a storry perspactive.
Yeah, I can understand that. I never re-loaded quicker in my life when I saw that ending. His expression, the epilogue..., no, Ferelden doesn't deserve this sacrifice. Loghain will do just fine as such.
#2721
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:32
ejoslin
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Zevran ends up an empty shell without the warden -- everything that was good about him dies along with him or her. Yes, when a sacrifice must be made, it's Alistair or Loghain. Both of them want to take that final blow anyway.
#2722
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:33
EccentricSage
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We both have to stop going back and editing our previous posts. XD It's getting messy.
Damn. I would have hoped that he would have been inspired by love to live a new life. But I guess it just completely breaks him... tares away all that was good and made him, him. Leaving only the killer. *shudders* It's moving, but... disturbing.
Damn. I would have hoped that he would have been inspired by love to live a new life. But I guess it just completely breaks him... tares away all that was good and made him, him. Leaving only the killer. *shudders* It's moving, but... disturbing.
#2723
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:35
ejoslin
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Heh, I had to take out that picture, it was too big and too depressing for people first thing. Thumbnails can be easier to take!
#2724
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:38
EccentricSage
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ejoslin wrote...
Zevran ends up an empty shell without the warden -- everything that was good about him dies along with him or her. Yes, when a sacrifice must be made, it's Alistair or Loghain. Both of them want to take that final blow anyway.
I agree. Man...
And I wouldn't want a soulless heartless Zevran unleashed upon the world, ether. I'd take a demon child over that anyday. D: Because no matter what, I don't doubt that it's true that he enjoyed killing.
All options are better than virtually destroying Zevran.
And you know what? I always go for the tragic tortured characters with the extream endings. I'm in love with Testament from Guilty Gear, too.
Modifié par EccentricSage, 17 février 2010 - 01:39 .
#2725
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:43
Sabriana
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If you want to see how much it destroys him when she dumps him, pick the
*****Spoiler coming, duck*****
"No, that's too much" line after the second earring offering. The PC can see how much he loves her, that there will be no casual relationship option for him, and she will take a very serious approval hit, up to -45
***Spoiler over, y'all can stand up straight again***
He's finally found someone who belongs to him, someone who loves him, and doesn't think he's 'nothing'. He never had that before in his life and then all that is taken away from him. Poor Zevran. It utterly and completely destroys him from the inside out.
*****Spoiler coming, duck*****
"No, that's too much" line after the second earring offering. The PC can see how much he loves her, that there will be no casual relationship option for him, and she will take a very serious approval hit, up to -45
***Spoiler over, y'all can stand up straight again***
He's finally found someone who belongs to him, someone who loves him, and doesn't think he's 'nothing'. He never had that before in his life and then all that is taken away from him. Poor Zevran. It utterly and completely destroys him from the inside out.
