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[soignee]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I have issues will some parts of slash fandom though, not going to lie. The writers that go, "eew girls have cooties" or "I don't like female characters period" or "all female characters are Mary Sues!" Those ones? Yeah, then can go back to lady school, where I will do the "you've not only let me down, but yourself down. Please stop hating your own gender, ladies" speech, while shaking my head sorrowfully.

A little hating on canon love interests (Lana Lang from Smallville immediately comes to mind as that was my first slash fandom and well, Lana) it understandable as there has to be a reason they're no longer interested in her and can start being interested in HIM. Still, people do overdo it sometimes.

But the vitriol aimed at these characters frightens me. It's Ginny Weasley/Hermione being turned into shrieking shrews. It's Rose Tyler being turned into a b*tch.  And I'm here going, "wut."

While there are still gender issues in entertainment that trickle into fandom, brilliant female characters do exist but are seemingly ignored. And I'm not talking about the "but Soignee, I think boys kissing is hot! It's my thing." That's brilliant. I like ladies in uniform and lovable rogue types, it's my thing. what I'm saying is this- write away your draco/harry doctor who/master holmes/sherlock stuff, but don't vilify your own gender in the process.

I will mention that none of this seems to apply to this fandom due to the creation of the Origins, and how the Wardens can be written... everything is canon. The above is something I've noticed in other fandoms and it... makes me sad. What's wrong with female characters, internets?

Modifié par soignee, 12 mai 2010 - 11:26 .

[Tellervo]

soignee wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...


Since she says m/m is meh, it's probably not something terribly interesting. 

Never said that.  I believe it was "oh, boys kissing. K."

I will read slash, I can nod my head approvingly at well written characters and applaud fine use of prose and narrative developing. But the sexytiems bits is sort of like reading Ikea furniture instructions to me, and I will scroll past it if it's smut for smut's sake.

I have issues with some parts of slash fandom though, not going to lie. The writers that go, "eew girls have cooties" or "I don't like female characters period" or "all female characters are Mary Sues!" Those ones? Yeah, then can go back to lady school, where I will do the "you've not only let me down, but yourself down. Please stop hating your own gender, ladies" speech, while shaking my head sorrowfully.

This is why I avoided writing overt M/M until the past year and stuck firmly to "romantic friendship" between male characters: I didn't want those people as fans.  I honestly don't give a flying feck about the genders/sexes involved, since I don't much enjoy romance in writing.  Romance is an element, not a focus, in my opinion, though I've been pushing that way on purpose to make myself more comfortable with it.  I have trouble writing women, though... so my general focus on men as main characters in my original works is sort of a crutch.

[soignee]

Sresla wrote...

Tellervo wrote...

Well, I don't much care for Leliana, personally.  Boobs and all that.

soignee wrote...

I get you're a straight woman and all, but does the thought of Zev/Leli hooking up really do nothing?

Wait. What?

Edit: Also, I do not want to cannot imagine Leliana and Zevran hooking up.

I've been told time and time and TIME again I am a filthy pervert and do not think what is the percieved correct way of how a woman should, so, eh. Tell said she was a straight woman and I was curious what the reaction was. I never make sense, do I?

[Tellervo]

soignee wrote...

Sresla wrote...

Tellervo wrote...

Well, I don't much care for Leliana, personally.  Boobs and all that.

soignee wrote...

I get you're a straight woman and all, but does the thought of Zev/Leli hooking up really do nothing?

Wait. What?

Edit: Also, I do not want to cannot imagine Leliana and Zevran hooking up.

I've been told time and time and TIME again I am a filthy pervert and do not think what is the percieved correct way of how a woman should, so, eh. Tell said she was a straight woman and I was curious what the reaction was. I never make sense, do I?

I think his confusion actually stems from the fact that Tell is non-gendered.  I am both/neither (yes, I am physically one or the other, but my brain meats tell me I'm neither, because my brain meats apparently didn't get the memo from my genitalia).  I go shopping with my lady friends (awkwardly--I usually hold their bags and sneer and look mean) and happily participate in their craft nights and *squee* about hair, and I go get krunk at sports bars with my dude friends and hit on chicks and rargleflargle about cars.  I have no idea what a normal boy/girl is supposed to be like--I've never been one.  I also understand that you can be one or the other and still be like this, but I'm not programmed as one or the other.

Use whatever gender pronoun is appropriate in your head, though, because they're both appropriate.

[Sarah1281]

That sounds really complicated. I just go with 'I'm physically a girl' and to hell with gender norms.

[Tellervo]

Sarah1281 wrote...

That sounds really complicated. I just go with 'I'm physically a girl' and to hell with gender norms.

I'm beginning to think I should've just picked one and pretended that's what I am.  And I'm wondering if it's too late to do so now.

[Sresla]

soignee wrote...

It's Rose Tyler being turned into a b*tch.  And I'm here going, "wut."

While this is a genuine tangent - I'd like to point out that Doctor Who did fine for what... 30 odd years without introducing a single love interest. I found the whole Doctor/Rose tree to actually distract from the storytelling aspect of the episodes because it became such a strong undercurrent that was always present and was glad when she left the show. Except they stepped into another puddle with Martha Jones - her feelings just went unrequited. Jack, although the "attraction" element was there, never feelt like it bogged down the plot excessively. Everyone has their favorite seasons, I'm sure, but the Doctor/Donna dynamic, to me, was the strongest one presented and actually went back to the days of solid female leads (SJS, Romana, Leela, Nyssa, Ace, Jo Grant and more...) without needing the crutch of romance to lead it along.

Although, River Song works for me. Maybe because the relationship feels more like what I would equate to love equality rather than infatuation gone way too far.

I also doubt we'll ever see another permanent male companion. It would be nice. Adric, Turlough, Harry, LBS and Jaime all fit brilliantly with their Doctors (I think I read somewhere that Jaime's character has been in more DW episodes than any of the singular Doctors).

[Creature 1]

soignee wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...


Since she says m/m is meh, it's probably not something terribly interesting. 

Never said that.  I believe it was "oh, boys kissing. K."

I will read slash, I can nod my head approvingly at well written characters and applaud fine use of prose and narrative developing. But the sexytiems bits is sort of like reading Ikea furniture instructions to me, and I will scroll past it if it's smut for smut's sake.

If m/m to you is like reading furniture assembly instructions, that's going beyond indifferent (meh) to outright bored. 

[Creature 1]

Tellervo wrote...
I think his confusion actually stems from the fact that Tell is non-gendered.  I am both/neither (yes, I am physically one or the other, but my brain meats tell me I'm neither, because my brain meats apparently didn't get the memo from my genitalia).  I go shopping with my lady friends (awkwardly--I usually hold their bags and sneer and look mean) and happily participate in their craft nights and *squee* about hair, and I go get krunk at sports bars with my dude friends and hit on chicks and rargleflargle about cars.  I have no idea what a normal boy/girl is supposed to be like--I've never been one.  I also understand that you can be one or the other and still be like this, but I'm not programmed as one or the other.

Use whatever gender pronoun is appropriate in your head, though, because they're both appropriate.

I don't do *any* of these things. 

[Sarah1281]

If m/m to you is like reading furniture assembly instructions, that's going beyond indifferent (meh) to outright bored.

Well that or she's a furniture enthusiast.

[soignee]

Tellervo wrote...

I think his confusion actually stems from the fact that Tell is non-gendered.  I am both/neither (yes, I am physically one or the other, but my brain meats tell me I'm neither, because my brain meats apparently didn't get the memo from my genitalia).  I go shopping with my lady friends (awkwardly--I usually hold their bags and sneer and look mean) and happily participate in their craft nights and *squee* about hair, and I go get krunk at sports bars with my dude friends and hit on chicks and rargleflargle about cars.  I have no idea what a normal boy/girl is supposed to be like--I've never been one.  I also understand that you can be one or the other and still be like this, but I'm not programmed as one or the other.

Use whatever gender pronoun is appropriate in your head, though, because they're both appropriate.

Isn't that normal, though? I'm the same.

I got lady friends who I talk about baking and shoes and boys with, and I got male friends who I hang out with who I go to metal concerts/curry nights/THE PUB with where we talk about beer, women and politics. (I'll admit I don't do sports or cars.) The dudes don't treat me like a woman, never notice my t*ts and the most I'll get is a "little sister" comment once every blue moon in vague reference to my gender.

Also since I'm lolfashion I got a plethora of men and women who slip in the middle, and have been in more gay clubs, pubs and bars then hot dinners. Gay Mafia= run fashion, you know.

I apparently think like a man when it comes to other men, in terms of sex and relationships. This makes me sort of angry as what's wrong with thinkinggggg like a girllll I ammmmm one! That's what my little offhand comment to Tell was about, so sorry it caused a little confusion and the above waffle.

[Creature 1]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If m/m to you is like reading furniture assembly instructions, that's going beyond indifferent (meh) to outright bored.

Well that or she's a furniture enthusiast.

You win the internet!  *hands embossed certificate* 

[Sarah1281]

Creature 1 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

If m/m to you is like reading furniture assembly instructions, that's going beyond indifferent (meh) to outright bored.

Well that or she's a furniture enthusiast.

You win the internet!  *hands embossed certificate* 

Yay!

[soignee]

Creature 1 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

If m/m to you is like reading furniture assembly instructions, that's going beyond indifferent (meh) to outright bored.

Well that or she's a furniture enthusiast.

You win the internet!  *hands embossed certificate* 

It's just the sweaty parts, I love me a good romance/character development REGARDLESS of gender. Visual m/m is the same, too.

[Charsen]

if gay sex seems boring then you should stop looking at yaoi and check out some real stuff

edit
er, that sounded ****tier than i meant... didn't mean that in a rude way actually

Modifié par Charsen, 13 mai 2010 - 12:05 .

[Herr Uhl]

Charsen wrote...

if gay sex seems boring then you should stop looking at yaoi and check out some real stuff

You volunteering?

[Creature 1]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Charsen wrote...

if gay sex seems boring then you should stop looking at yaoi and check out some real stuff

You volunteering?

*waits for obvious response* 

[soignee]

Charsen wrote...

if gay sex seems boring then you should stop looking at yaoi and check out some real stuff

I never said boring, just that it doesn't rock my socks....

GODDAMIT CAN I OFFEND ANYONE ELSE TODAY, LINE UP SO I CAN OFFEND YOU

[Sarah1281]

soignee wrote...

Charsen wrote...

if gay sex seems boring then you should stop looking at yaoi and check out some real stuff

I never said boring, just that it doesn't rock my socks....

GODDAMIT CAN I OFFEND ANYONE ELSE TODAY, LINE UP SO I CAN OFFEND YOU

Oh, pick me!  

I'm not sure you've ever managed to offend me yet...

[Creature 1]

soignee wrote...

Charsen wrote...

if gay sex seems boring then you should stop looking at yaoi and check out some real stuff

I never said boring, just that it doesn't rock my socks....

GODDAMIT CAN I OFFEND ANYONE ELSE TODAY, LINE UP SO I CAN OFFEND YOU

Oops, was I supposed to be offended??  WHY DOES NO ONE TELL ME THESE THINGS?! 

[Tellervo]

Here, Soignee: Furniture pr0n

[Herr Uhl]

Tellervo wrote...

Here, Soignee: Furniture pr0n

I'll be in my bunk.

[soignee]

Tellervo wrote...

Here, Soignee: Furniture pr0n

what is this I don't even

[Creature 1]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Tellervo wrote...

Here, Soignee: Furniture pr0n

I'll be in my bunk.

Laughing so hard I'm crying and almost fell out of my chair!  Bow-chika-wow-wow!

[Charsen]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Charsen wrote...

if gay sex seems boring then you should stop looking at yaoi and check out some real stuff

You volunteering?

but those are trade secrets!!
.....as in, what are you trading?