35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Sresla]

I'd give a hint but there's only one I could give and it'd give it away immediately. But you seem like a bright lass. I'm sure you'll puzzle it out

Edited for more appropriate wording!

Modifié par Sresla, 18 février 2010 - 10:13 .

[Sabriana]

Oh sure, be like that. Now you'll have me trying to pry your posts apart, thanks.



***wanders away mumbling..."now what does the Zevran line have to do with Denerim?".....mumble, grumble***



Plus, I'm not even finished with my PTSD HN rogue, and I'm trying to figure out the best mage/healer build. I should so not come here in the middle of a play through.

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

I dont think dwarf commoner would be that different for either gender really I just cant see much changing

and even if you *dont* screw up as badly as my Baren did you still are forced to kill your best friend when you return home which is pretty awful

Id say Dwarf Noble males have it better off than females though since they have an heir to the throne before they become grey wardens (and like I said earlier in the topic I dont see female dwarf PC's getting preggers thanks to Dwarves already having low fertility rating on top of the low fertility caused by the grey wardens)

The only reason CDF has a better shot at happiness is she can also end up with Alistair (YES, many women consider that happy) and would not consider being his concubine a bad thing.  I cannot see an elf being completely happy being the king's concubine (ugh, sorry Ali fangirls, but I can't) as elves are looked down upon far more than dwarves are.  Plus, I don't think being a nobleman's concubine in Ferelden is viewed as the same status as it is in Orzammar.  Of course, the biggest difference is the warden is so much more than just a concubine to the king.  

I agree that DNM have it better -- DNF either can continue their bloodline through Bhelen, or let it die out.  And instead of getting a good talk with Gorim, you end up dumped when you meet up with him again!

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 11:55 .

[ejoslin]

EccentricSage wrote...
<<a lot of good things, snipped for brevity ONLY>>

Zevran and Taliesen, I believe, had deep feelings for each other.  It's pretty obvious that Taliesen did, as because you mention, Taliesen tried to get Zevran back.  Even his ambush was pretty bad, probably because he didn't want to risk Zevran getting killed and expected Zev to fight with him.  Zevran also had deep feelings for Taliesen, which you can see if you're at that point, but Zevran refuses to fight (only when romanced but below 71+, so still casual, and even then, he may fight depending on your answers) and IF you question him about his relationship with Taliesen later.  Zevran looks and sounds so heartbroken during that discussion.  Of course, if you are able to have that discussion, you most likely have only heard the hints about Rinna at the gauntlet, if you took him.  It actually gives the relationship and discussion a very natural flow, and gives the discussion about Rinna a lot more context.

Since normally my warden is forced to choose between Alistair and Zevran after Alistair falls in love, of course there's no approval loss for choosing Zevran since my warden is nice about it.  Zevran has such large approval drops once you get past +71.

With a femwarden, though, and possibly the male warden (I don't know, I've never done that romance) Zevran does express regrets (he regrets far more than the men and women he's been with, he consoles himself that most of his marks had it coming, he wishes that coldness came naturally to him) -- far more than Leliana ever does.  Being an assassin is all he knows, but even the stories he tells are the ones that really bug him and place him in a fairly bad light, and explain a lot about how he is as well.  He also may thank the warden on more than one occasion for giving him a new path.  On the other hand, you also know that when he lets Anora know (if you go a certain route) that he is looking for a reason not to slit her throat and throw her in the river, that she is lucky that she is still alive, and if the Warden is harmed, it doesn't matter who she is, he will kill her.  

I certainly don't think he becomes a warm-hearted puppy hugger.  His fluid morals are one of the most appealing things about him, coupled with his pragmatism and intelligence.  But he is not a psychotic killer, either.  At least, I don't see him as such.

You know, though, a lot of what I'm saying is not necessarily revealed in conversations with him.  So his character WILL be different.  It's the most amazing thing about the writing, how every conversation can have a completely different tone and show a different character.

[Sabriana]

Hey. No puppy-hugger? He likes my dog. Seriously, can you say this is not friendly:

Zevran: I noticed some dog drool in my pack this morning.

Dog: (Happy bark!)

Zevran: Not that I like to make accusations. And I even appreciate the artistry behind a good burgle when I see it, to tell the truth. But leaving all that drool as evidence? Sloppy.

Dog: (Happy bark!)

Zevran: I'll take that as an apology.

Dog: (Happy bark!)

Zevran: I'm so glad you're pleased. It really is quite something to find such enthusiasm in one's companions.

Dog: (Ecstatic bark!)

Zevran: I agree. Go, team. Hurrah.


But seriously, Zevran has a lot of room to grow once he jumps over the hurdle and acknowledges and even embraces the love he has for the Warden.

Truly, the Zevran in the beginning is definitely not the Zevran at the end. He feels glad that he's doing something worthy (fighting the Blight), and he would happily lay down his life for her. The 'Black City' speech gets me everytime, it's so beautiful. Even if the Warden becomes his treasured friend only (no romance), he grows during the game, and is capable of sacrifices for her.

I believe that many people just want see him to a complete flip in an instant. That's not going to happen, he can't do that, being a slave and an assassin is all he knows. He has to learn everything from the bottom up. "Already it's been many things" is one of my favorite lines of his. Especially when combined with the look on his face when he says it - appreciative, glad, and a bit bemused.

[ejoslin]

Hahahaha, ok, KITTEN hugger!



He does grow and change a lot. "I cannot think of anything that I have ever done that is so worthy . . ." as lover or friend. It's such a shame so many people miss that talk. I have to admit, I find the speech when you leave him at the gates more moving, but I never leave him (though I do occasionally listen to it and reload). It's like, when you hurt Zevran, he is more willing to express his love, and right there is no exception.



*sigh* I'm forcing my way through the final onslaught right now. I always have the Dalish help in the Alienage. Not that they're particularly great there, but for some reason it seems fitting.

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

Hahahaha, ok, KITTEN hugger!

He does grow and change a lot. "I cannot think of anything that I have ever done that is so worthy . . ." as lover or friend. It's such a shame so many people miss that talk. I have to admit, I find the speech when you leave him at the gates more moving, but I never leave him (though I do occasionally listen to it and reload). It's like, when you hurt Zevran, he is more willing to express his love, and right there is no exception.

*sigh* I'm forcing my way through the final onslaught right now. I always have the Dalish help in the Alienage. Not that they're particularly great there, but for some reason it seems fitting.

Yeah, forcing us through all the bad choices, and oodles of F5 and F9, just so we can hear the dialogues. Thanks a lot Zevran, we love being put through the wringer.

Heh, I do that too. The dalish in the alienage, I mean. However, I do like the dalish, those archers are tops against the one-hit grunts. I have terrible problems with the mages though. They end up incinerating my PC, her allies, and themselves. So far, in all of my 3 play-throughs, the dwarfs were the most effective in the harder end-battles.

[Nonvita]

Sten is the kitten hugger.



It's 5:30am here, and I'm running on 2 hours of crappy sleep. I can't think straight, otherwise I would post something really awesome about how great Zevran is being just the way he is. So just imagine lots of gushing and squee. Make it seem like I wrote something cool.



And I don't like healer mages. I never even use Wynne, and I refuse to give Morrigan any healing spells. I don't know why, I just have a really hard time finding a build I'd want to use for a character. I'll keep giving it a go, but so far no luck. (But if that really is some sort of druid spec in Awakening, then I'll be a happy camper.)

[ejoslin]

I usually play a controller mage the odd time I play a mage. Blood wound just makes everything so easy.

I actually saw a new Zevran comment today at the gates. You know how after you select your party, sometimes a party member comments? I thought this one was cool.

Zevran: (Exhales) Could the city even recover from an onslaught such as this?

Usually the comments I see are about fighting the archdemon. I'm not sure why I liked this one so much; maybe because it was a surprise that he'd be even thinking about recovery before the archdemon is dead?  More likely because after (ugh) 16 (!!!!!) playthroughs I'm still finding new things.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 02:26 .

[Sabriana]

*Does what Nonvita asks and pretends*
Squee!!!

Oh, that's so cool, Ejoslin. He actually cares about the city (and I assume its people), even though he has yet to face the archdemon. And you said he was no puppy...ah, kitten-hugger.

Edited to pretend I care for clarity.

Modifié par Sabriana, 18 février 2010 - 03:02 .

[Creature 1]

Ok, who suggested reading the Nightrunner series? I thought it was Jenovan, but she says no, but I know it was one of you! Whoever it was thanks for the suggestion!

[ejoslin]

@ Sabriana, I took it like, he is assuming victory. He does not lose faith in the Warden or her abilities to lead them in this battle. Alistair's talk with her at the gate is full of apprehension, whereas Zevran's is completely confident (unless left behind, then he wants reassurance that (s)he will be back). And that comment was just more . . . confidence. Then again, his comments there also seem to indicate that he is walking with her, not being lead by her. Gah. Ok, THIS is squee!

[Jaulen]

I just finished Landsmeet last night, and had planned on having a hardened Alistair rule with Anora. But I forgot to go back to Anora to tell her Alistair (reluctantly) agreed to the match, so she betrayed us at the Landsmeet. (one of my favorite lines, "Excuse me while I go have a small hear attack in the corner"). Thankfully though it was 6 to 1 at the Landmeet in the GW's favor. I battled Loghain and let Alistair chop off his head. No WAY after Anora betrayed me was I letting her father live. And thankfully Alistair jumped in and grabbed the reigns of power and tossed Anora in the tower.



Now the after Landsmeet breakup scene. This is what I had been waiting for ALL game. BUT I only had Alistair at 67 care. So I didn't think there WOULD be a break up scene. Nope. He comes in and says his whole "We have to talk about us." My PC told him, totally puzzled, "I didn't realize there was an us" and Alistair was like "Oh come now, don't kid yourself, we BOTH know where this is going...." (I laughed at that.....) and then I treid to pick my way through the conversation to get him to realize nope, there ISN'T an us......no luck there. (I think my convo was bugged) because even not picking the lines I knew would convince him to keep my CE as a concubine....that's where he finished up the conversation. So now I have a romanced 100 love Zevran, whom my CE will run off with at the end, and a boy-king at 64 care who thinks there's some sort of future between the two of them! *sigh*



And poor Alistair, virgin up until the point of Morrigan wanting to get into his pants. (I love when she says Zevran and beloved in the same sentance) Well, Alistair lost his virginity to the swamp witch....I feel so cruel! *mwahahahaaaaa*



Got to the gates of Denerim, and saved right before hand so I could run through the take/leave companion convos (I usually take the same team in.....but this time I'm taking Alistair, Zevran and Sten in with me). I'm wondering if I triggered Leliana's romance becuase her speeches sounded suspiciously like a 100 Love Leliana with my CEM. But, I went through the Zevran lines....and telling him you love him, when leaving him at the gates....*ouch* "Cruel to the end* and then he walks off.



Hubby and I figure the reason for THAT response, you've never TOLD him explicitly "I love you." And he's totally in love with you, sees a future with you, and then at the point of you possibly going off and dying and not coming back, THAT'S when you tell him you love him? Hubby said he'd be ticked off too.



I liked his response to the "are you sure you want to go up against an Archdemon/dragon?" question. I also liked Alistair's "The ritual won't protect you from getting squashed by the dragon"

[Sabriana]

@ Ejoslin

You know that I now have to try and trigger this, don't you? Thanks bunches . And my current PC isn't even close to the end yet, she's still running around Orzammar, and the werewolves are still waiting *sigh*.

Why is that girl so slow? Gah!



@ Jaulen

I always thought that too. She tells him she loves him, and then leaves him behind. Poor guy. Oh, the ways we can be cruel to him. Poor, poor Zevran.

[Jaulen]

Although I do so love hearing the 'I would willingly storm...." speech, I always take Zevran in with me. So I had to run through the 'leave him at the gates lines' And yeah, my PC will never again tell him she/he loves him at that point.



This will be my first time not taking Wynne with, but I've found out that Alistair, Sten, Zevran, and myself are a kick-butt combo. We don't die and we use very few health pots. Off to kill the AD tonight after dinner! Maybe at the end speech I can get it through Alistair's thick head that there is no future for him in a romantic sense with the GW.

[ejoslin]

@ Jaulen, Alistair dumped my city elf at 64 hostile. LOL, I picked every rude response I could there, and he just wouldn't believe it.

*sigh* I cannot leave Zevran at the gates. He does have a couple of really sweet responses there, as well as the two which prompt, "cruel to the end," but it's the "In truth, for the chance to be by your side, I'd willingly storm the gates of the dark city itself, never doubt it," which causes the reload. It's also why I occasionally try to leave him -- he sounds so sad and so tender right there. But as you know, Zevran always is part of my team (from my second play through on) because of all that he has to say, everywhere.

Also, with Zevran, think about the last time a woman he cared for told him she loved him . . . It really is the worst thing to say to him at that moment. Seriously, he wants to be with the warden, by her side for that final battle, thinks that maybe he can be the one to save her life and wants nothing more than to be able to do that, and instead she leaves him there and tells him that.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 04:04 .

[Sabriana]

I've been taking no-mage groups more and more, and I like it. With the latest discovery (Morrigan being called a malificar by Wynne) she's out of the group for good.

Morrigan is alright, but she does tend to go on my nerves a bit. For the tougher areas, she will be there though, but mostly its my PC, Zevran, Sten, and Alistair...... Hey. That's the same as your optimal group, lol.

Ejoslin, he also wants to be there to prevent her 'untimely death', even if it means dying for her.

I feel a serious 'squee' coming on. Duck everyone!

[Jaulen]

I *squee*ed already.

the first time I heard the "chance to be by your side line" I was like "reload reLOAD!" but I didn't have a save decently close enough, and I wanted to get through the game (since she knew she was going to US). So she left Zevran at the gate. *ouch*

I've really been enjoying the non-mage parties also. I didn't used to take Sten with, but I figure that's becuase I didn't know how to spec him at all. Now it's Alistair doing all the dying, can't figure out why exactly, but that's okay, what's a few battle scars on a King, eh? And as long as I have enough lesser injury kits, and hes the only one using them (I wonder if they can become addicting?) we should be good.

EDIT: @ejoslin: So even at 64 Hostile Alistair STILL thought there was something going on between the two of you after the Landsmeet?

At the end of the convo I was wishing there was a 'grab Alistair and shake him while yelling "No no no!!!! There was never anything, there is nothing, and there will NEVER BE anyththing between us!" But now I'm interested in seeing the epi cards.

Modifié par Jaulen, 18 février 2010 - 04:19 .

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

I've been taking no-mage groups more and more, and I like it. With the latest discovery (Morrigan being called a malificar by Wynne) she's out of the group for good.
Morrigan is alright, but she does tend to go on my nerves a bit. For the tougher areas, she will be there though, but mostly its my PC, Zevran, Sten, and Alistair...... Hey. That's the same as your optimal group, lol.
Ejoslin, he also wants to be there to prevent her 'untimely death', even if it means dying for her.
I feel a serious 'squee' coming on. Duck everyone!

Yes, he sure does.  And as her partner, even though she knows better, she can't deny him that.

Arrrrgh.  I'm debating whether to finish my second casteless dwarf, make an Alistair hate HNF (I have a feeling his reaction to the wedding will be the same as his reaction at 0 neutral, though, which is funny but not worth an entire playthrough to check for differences), or what.  Zevran + DF love and kiss scenes almost make up for DF's long arms . . . Decisions, decisions . . .

[Sabriana]

It took me the longest time to figure out how to respec Sten. But now he's a powerhouse. I nixed the 'taunt' and 'threaten' on him, so poor Alistair has to fill the breech. The one who almost never dies is Zevran. I swear, that man has 75+ health, while the rest of us are close to choking and wheezing, spitting blood.



I have made a very pretty dwarf lady in the Character Creator, but I can't get past the arms yet. One day I will have to use her though, I just have to get used to those weird arms. Or maybe a mod will come out. Hopefully. It's possible. But I want some dwarf/elf loving.

[ejoslin]

Hmmmmm, I am thinking about how Zevran in the fade completely changed the way I viewed his character. Learning that he really was tortured, and that he had to prove he could take pain without flinching was one thing. Seeing how much that memory terrified him was yet another. And seeing how he deflected the entire thing by making the wood nymph comment made me just wish he was real so I could hug him.

It also made me view his party banter with everyone a bit differently. Wynne I always thought was obvious he was just making her uncomfortable in return for her prying into things that were none of her business and trying to establish herself as his redeemer. Morrigan, again obvious as long as you run around with the two of them in your party long enough. But Leliana, those conversations took on a new meaning to me. It went from thinking he was hitting on her to realizing that he was poking holes in her professed beliefs. Take her to the gauntlet, and you see that further.

With Zevran, so many people don't see how he pries below the surface and hits people where they're most sensitive. You can see it even in the dialogs with the warden if (s)he is prodding in ways that make him uncomfortable.

Edit: And dwarf/elf loving in the best.  OMG, Zevran smiling . . . how can you pass that up?  And the kiss.  *sigh* Ok, I'll finish my casteless.  Her going home is so depressing, but probably some loving afterwards will cheer her up a bit.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 04:26 .

[Jaulen]

*makes face at DF arms* <<<<------ Worst character design in the game.

[Sabriana]

It is the worst. I thought the FemWalk was bad, but then I saw the Femdwarf arms and revised that opinion.



The fade was the turning point for even my Alistair besotted mage. She took an interest in Zevran right then and there. Especially him being so utterly terrified, and calls it a bad memory, a bad dream. Then he turns around and tells her in his ususal light way that "nothing beats a good racking". Compound that with the wood-nymphs, and she knew that he was definitely not what he wished to appear being.



Unfortunately for Isolde, that dooms her each and every time. There will be no Tower without Zevran. Ever. It's too important for my PC to see, she can figure out a big chunk of Zevran right then and there.

[ejoslin]

Yes, Zev in the fade is the first glimpse of what's below the surface, until he completely trusts the warden. And even when he's dreaming, after you rescue him he is already covering. His cowering instead of helping you fight . . . it is the strongest indication how bad it really was for him. It also makes the "festering wounds" comment come off as it really had happened to him.



I think one of the saddest moments in the game is when playing a city elf and you two go back to the alienage. He just looks like he's been kicked in the stomach when you're talking to Shiani. I wish there was a way that the city elf could have told him about it before then. It was also one of the things that ticked me off most about Alistair. Alistair is indignant, and even if your city elf DID tell him (as you can in Flemmeth's hut), he forgets. Zevran, though, looks so hurt and betrayed.

[Jaulen]

Ah yes, the Shianni convo in the Alienage.....*bap* to Alistair for forgetting you told him.....I took Zev in this time through to get his reaction and his reaction only. The first time I saw it it didn't seem like that big a deal, but after being romanced, and seeing just his reaction, with the facial expression and the little *hitch* in the voice......yeah, it seemed like it was a shock to him, and not in a good way.

MY PC felt like a heel for not telling him.

But then she was also like, "Shianni!!! *shhh* There never WAS a wedding! Why bring that up??"

Modifié par Jaulen, 18 février 2010 - 05:52 .