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[Sabriana]

Well, Alistair forgets that the HN whole house was massacred along with most of her family. So what's a dead bride-groom?

When hearing of the festering wounds, and being locked up, I always remember the blurb he has on the BioWare homepage. It says:

The Antivan Crows are the most infamous guild of thieves and assassins in all of Thedas, even counting members of royal houses among their numbers. The organization's fearsome reputation is often as effective as the exotic poisons they have developed, letting them all but rule their homeland through terror.

Zevran, born to an elven **** in the capital of Antiva was sold to the guild at a young age. Although he resisted the Crows' brutal training methods at first, he eventually accepted his lot, and began to excel. Zevran rose through the ranks to become one of the Crows' most promising assassins, specializing in both, seduction and stealth. Brash and ambitious, he has acepted his most dangerous commission yet. A target in far-off Ferelden, one that may bring him unimaginable rewards.

So he did resist at first, and who knows what the Crows do in that case. I doubt it's gentle persuasion.

I just don't know what to make of the sentence I put in italics. A deliberate misleading of the player, perhaps? Or Zevran deliberately misleading the master when he put in the bid to kill the GW?

[jenovan]

Heh, just went through the City Elf homecoming a couple days ago myself... geh. I wonder how different it is with the male CE? Zevran and Alistair still express surprise, and I think a lot of the dialogue is the same, but when the PC mentions that his fiancee was kidnapped, it's Zevran who pipes up with "Surely you got her [the bride] back?" Hmm, I need to go transcribe that part and listen to it again..



But anyway, I agree that the PC should be able to tell their romantic interest about that important tidbit earlier! (.. of course you can tell Alistair, but that's well before a romance can really start... >_> Still, how could he possibly forget that, especially if you're in a romance with him?!) RP-wise, I just kinda decided that my PC wouldn't have mentioned the wedding itself, since it never happened, he and Nesiara are no longer betrothed since he went to the Wardens, and so on. Thanks a lot, Shianni. ;P

[ejoslin]

It's probably wrong of me to admit this, but because of Alistair's reaction in the Alienage, I took great delight when leaving him at the gates later, when he asked why, answering, "Because I don't like you." I didn't select, "****** off," because by then she was over it, but I did like those dialog selections for a hostile Alistair.

With Zevran in the Alienage with a city elf romance . . . still, ugh. The hitch is definitely in his voice, and it's worse if you choose, "he died," but he is able to make light of it if the warden does. But he also always makes a joke whenever he's upset, so that's not too surprising.

Edit: I think his reaction in the Alienage being a bit understated is kind of the same when he learns that the HNF (and most likely HNM) is getting married.  He makes a joke, so it's very easy to miss the small cues -- the hurt expression, the upset voice, and in the case of the HN, his wanting to discuss it further.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 06:10 .

[Jaulen]

Yeah, thanks alot Shianni!
Especially since my FCE wasn't keen on getting married in the first place, the wedding never happened, AND to top it all off the bridegroom is DEAD!
I do wish there had been a 'run away' option at the wedding....

For the FCE he pretty much says something along the lines of "So there's a secretive side to you after all" I don't recall what else....but he doesn't look happy when he says that.

EDIT: ejoslin: Do you have some transcripts of the convo with Zevran as a FCE? My game dialogue bugged at that point.

Modifié par Jaulen, 18 février 2010 - 06:15 .

[jenovan]

Sabriana wrote...
When hearing of the festering wounds, and being locked up, I always remember the blurb he has on the BioWare homepage. It says:

The Antivan Crows are the most infamous guild of thieves and assassins in all of Thedas, even counting members of royal houses among their numbers. The organization's fearsome reputation is often as effective as the exotic poisons they have developed, letting them all but rule their homeland through terror.

Zevran, born to an elven **** in the capital of Antiva was sold to the guild at a young age. Although he resisted the Crows' brutal training methods at first, he eventually accepted his lot, and began to excel. Zevran rose through the ranks to become one of the Crows' most promising assassins, specializing in both, seduction and stealth. Brash and ambitious, he has acepted his most dangerous commission yet. A target in far-off Ferelden, one that may bring him unimaginable rewards.

So he did resist at first, and who knows what the Crows do in that case. I doubt it's gentle persuasion.

I just don't know what to make of the sentence I put in italics. A deliberate misleading of the player, perhaps? Or Zevran deliberately misleading the master when he put in the bid to kill the GW?

Ooh, I'd never seen that before, thanks for posting it!   There's all kinds of goodies in there... it seems to say that Zevran was a Crow of some note, and it confirms his resisting the training at first.. although I think that might come up in game, somewhere, too. This isn't the first time I've heard that, hmm..

Heh, "brash and ambitious" may have been how he misled the master, yes.  Actually, that's how I imagined that scenario happening... he took on the "difficult" assignment of that merchant, and after a... success...  with that one, he's bidding on something even more ambitious.  It might have seemed in-character, to the master.

[ejoslin]

In the CEF, Zevran gets this really upset look and says,

Zevran: A wedding? So there is a secretive side to you after all
Warden: The wedding actually never took place
Alistair: But still, you never told me you were betrothed, what happened?
--
Warden: He died
Zevran: I don't know what to say to that

OR

Warden: Disaster! There were rapists! They brought the wrong cake!
OR
Warden: Picture a fairy tale wedding.  This was the opposite.
Zevran: I'm sure you looked stunning for the occasion.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 06:19 .

[jenovan]

Heh, is it bad that the "wrong cake" line makes me laugh every time I see it? >_>;;

The male CE gets the cake and fairy tale wedding options, but obviously he doesn't get "(s)he died", the bride doesn't die in that origin. He also gets those same opening lines from Zevran and Alistair.

Argh, must... transcribe... and, of course, play with all the possible answers. XD

Modifié par jenovan, 18 février 2010 - 06:21 .

[Addai]

That CE conversation is a bit bugged. The next response you can make is "I did. And then I was conscripted by the Grey Wardens." That response only makes sense if Zevran has told you he is sure you looked stunning, but it's an option even if you took the other route.



Zevran's reaction there is one of those times when you wonder how they communicate so much just through voice acting and pixels. He is obviously heavy-hearted about learning you had such a secret, but trying to hide the fact.

[ejoslin]

Heh, it's worse. You don't get the "I did" selection afterwards for one of the other selections (I don't remember which one).  It's just an annoying bug, but an ignorable one.

And I agree, Zevran's reaction just breaks my heart. Jon Curry just does such an amazing job, as do the animators. You can see just how hurt he is; my city elf feels like crap after that conversation. I always select, "We can talk about it later," and I think they do.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 06:26 .

[Sabriana]

You did see it in-game Jenovan, or we are both hallucinating. But I remember it being buried (deliberately, I think) by Zevran as a "no big deal" thing. In that blurb it's more obvious, and it also drives home the points that

a) The Crows are incredibly powerful, and
he wasn't a Mr. Nobody, but actually quite good. That makes it quite clear that his attempt at the GW was set up to fail.

By the way, you're quite welcome

Okay, I ran all out of 'quites'. Good.

Modifié par Sabriana, 18 février 2010 - 06:28 .

[ejoslin]

Zevran actually on more than one occasion says he was one of the best crows if not the best. I never got the feeling it was idle bragging -- he doesn't seem to have an inflated sense of himself. His arrogance may annoy some people, but it seems well deserved.

I think everything about the GW encounter points to it was set up to fail. From how horrible it was, to the warning, to his being such an ass afterwards. And if you end up asking him if he wants to live or not, he actually sounds, not only surprised, but questioning. "Yes? Yes I do?"

Edit: but he was not one of the master assassins.  He says as much to Alistair.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 06:32 .

[Jaulen]

I always love picking the Zev convo options where you give him a choice.....he always sounds so suprized that anywould would ever give him that option.

[Sabriana]

Lol, he says a lot to Alistair. But seriously, he is far from a bungler. You know, my PC actually resents that remark from Alistair. Zevran might not be a warrior type, but he's highly effective.

He's the one who dies the least in my games, and he deals out massive, massive damage. And he's always there to fight for my PC, ignoring his own attackers. He pulled her butt out of the fire countless times.

I have to try that one, I don't think I ever picked that line. And I think I accidentally saved over the 'ambush' save I had. So I have to do it next play-through, sigh.

Edit: @ Jaulen
He actually says that in the 'after Talisen' conversation, when the PC asks him what he would like to do. She hasn't understood yet that he wishes to be asked to stay

Modifié par Sabriana, 18 février 2010 - 06:40 .

[Raiynsong]

My CEF I played as definitely NOT wanting to get married. She was rude to the bridegroom, told everyone in no uncertain terms she didn't want the marriage. So when we end up in the Alienage and BOTH Alistair and Zevran said "what? you were married" I picked the answers that seemed (to me) as if they implied I didn't want to do it in the first place. I also picked the we'll talk later and made sure Zevran and I did. I do wish, tho, there would have been an option for "it was an arranged marriage I wanted no parts of" or something like that.



I always got the impression that Zevran was definitely one of the best but was outside the leadership mainly because of his values, tho hidden (even to himself) caused friction with the bossmen. And I get the impression that they agreed to him tackling the warden because they knew it would be near impossible and that they were willing to risk losing him. What I enjoy about that first encounter is that I didn't really hear the suicide note in his conversation. Him being surprised he wanted to live I heard as him being ironic and sarcastic. Knowing what I know now, I can sense some nuances there, but it works well either way. Good writing.

[ejoslin]

Heh, I personally think that Zevran is a far better fighter than Alistair. I've had them both as champion against Loghain. Guess who needs to use potions and takes forever. NOT the elf. But I suppose it's possible when Zevran says that masters usually don't take contracts outside of Antiva that he was speaking of himself. It's hard to say. Ignacio obviously knew who he was on sight.

Edit: And before anyone yells at me, I know it's a warrior vs rogue thing.  But usually I send Zevran in first when fighting (stealthed of course) and he still needs the least healing.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 06:48 .

[Sabriana]

Yes Raiynsong, and Ignacio makes it clear that this particular contract was not popular at all.

Zevran tells Alistair that he was the only one who bid on it, and he also says that "even the Crows find it impolitic to go after Grey Wardens".



But my PCs all know that something is not as it should be the very first time he opens his mouth. "I expected to wake up dead... or not wake up at all..."

[jenovan]

Jaulen wrote...

I always love picking the Zev convo options where you give him a choice.....he always sounds so suprized that anywould would ever give him that option.

Hehe, yes... the one after the Taliesen encounter, for one, is absolutely adorable, he sounds so confused!


Okay, I know there's that "we'll talk about it later" option in the wedding discussion... but do they actually have that conversation later?? I've never seen it referenced, but then, it would only apply to CE's, anyway...

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

Jaulen wrote...

I always love picking the Zev convo options where you give him a choice.....he always sounds so suprized that anywould would ever give him that option.

Hehe, yes... the one after the Taliesen encounter, for one, is absolutely adorable, he sounds so confused!


Okay, I know there's that "we'll talk about it later" option in the wedding discussion... but do they actually have that conversation later?? I've never seen it referenced, but then, it would only apply to CE's, anyway...

not in game.  There are a few instances where the warden and Zevran say they will talk later about something but the conversation is left up to the imagination I suppose.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 06:54 .

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

Heh, I personally think that Zevran is a far better fighter than Alistair. I've had them both as champion against Loghain. Guess who needs to use potions and takes forever. NOT the elf. But I suppose it's possible when Zevran says that masters usually don't take contracts outside of Antiva that he was speaking of himself. It's hard to say. Ignacio obviously knew who he was on sight.

Edit: And before anyone yells at me, I know it's a warrior vs rogue thing.  But usually I send Zevran in first when fighting (stealthed of course) and he still needs the least healing.  

no yelling from this quarter. I don't care if it's a whatever vs rogue thing, all my PC knows is that he either saves her butt and/or finishes off the fights so we all can regain consciousness and use the lesser healing kits.

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Heh, I personally think that Zevran is a far better fighter than Alistair. I've had them both as champion against Loghain. Guess who needs to use potions and takes forever. NOT the elf. But I suppose it's possible when Zevran says that masters usually don't take contracts outside of Antiva that he was speaking of himself. It's hard to say. Ignacio obviously knew who he was on sight.

Edit: And before anyone yells at me, I know it's a warrior vs rogue thing.  But usually I send Zevran in first when fighting (stealthed of course) and he still needs the least healing.  

I've only had Alistair champion once.  It was not a good idea.  I always fight the duel myself- I figure it's an honor thing.  My last HNF cunning rogue was the only one where I thought she might enjoy the joke of having Zevran fight Loghain.  In the end, though, she thought it was too serious a matter to jerk Loghain's chain, much as she wanted to.  She also planned to make herself queen and saw it as an opportunity to show the nobles that she was not just a pretty face who'd survived the Joining.  Fereldans love their warrior queens, after all.

But, what line of Alistair's are you guys referring to?

[ejoslin]

It's a party banter when Alistair asks Zevran why they sent him instead of a master assassin.  And tells him he's no master of combat.

Edit: I always have Zevran champion because, unless my character is also a melee rogue, it's the fastest, easiest fight.  Stunning poisons, paralyze rune, no matter what the difficulty level, the fight is over in less than 10 seconds.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 06:59 .

[Sabriana]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Heh, I personally think that Zevran is a far better fighter than Alistair. I've had them both as champion against Loghain. Guess who needs to use potions and takes forever. NOT the elf. But I suppose it's possible when Zevran says that masters usually don't take contracts outside of Antiva that he was speaking of himself. It's hard to say. Ignacio obviously knew who he was on sight.

Edit: And before anyone yells at me, I know it's a warrior vs rogue thing.  But usually I send Zevran in first when fighting (stealthed of course) and he still needs the least healing.  

I've only had Alistair champion once.  It was not a good idea.  I always fight the duel myself- I figure it's an honor thing.  My last HNF cunning rogue was the only one where I thought she might enjoy the joke of having Zevran fight Loghain.  In the end, though, she thought it was too serious a matter to jerk Loghain's chain, much as she wanted to.  She also planned to make herself queen and saw it as an opportunity to show the nobles that she was not just a pretty face who'd survived the Joining.  Fereldans love their warrior queens, after all.

But, what line of Alistair's are you guys referring to?

That a-one:

Alistair: So why would the Crows send you, Zevran?

Zevran: Is there some reason why they should not?

Alistair: Plenty of reasons. Starting with the fact that you weren't exactly the best they had, were you?

Zevran: Slander and lies. For shame, Alistair.

Alistair: I'm not an idiot. Well, not most of the time. You're no raw recruit, but I've seen you fight. You're no master of
combat, by any means

Zevran: Assuming that I intended a fair fight, that would indeed be a problem.

Alistair: But the Crows must have master assassins, the way you describe them. Men with years and years of experience. Why not send them?

Zevran: Why not, indeed? It is a mystery for the ages.

Alistair: Oh, I get it. You're not going to tell me.

Zevran: Morrigan said you were sharp. No liar, she.

Edited because formatting is vastly overrated, pfft.

Modifié par Sabriana, 18 février 2010 - 07:03 .

[Jaulen]

The first time through my CE spared him 1) because she was suprised that he was suprised at still being alive 2) Alistair was getting on my nerves a little 3) Yeah! A fellow elf! And a non-alienage one at that!

Zevran will usually ignore tactics and come over to help my PC's if things are getting dicey (made me wonder .... Ghost in the Shell for Zev's character?), so I appreciate that from him. I also appreciate that he doesn't die and can handle himself, even with a constitution of 15.

EDIT: I usually do the duel with Loghain (DW rogue). I tried Alisatir once, and yeah, not pretty. Did the duel last night with my lv 22 rogue and without poisons, just a dirty fighting toss, and momentum, flurry, poor Loghain was gone by the time I finsihed saying to my husband "I'm just starting the duel with Loghain." In fact it happened so fast, there were still figting sounds and background noice/convos/taunts re the fight, when it went into the 'I yield" cut scene.

Modifié par Jaulen, 18 février 2010 - 07:07 .

[ejoslin]

That dialog shows more the rivalry between Alistair and Zevran, actually. Alistair is quite jealous, no matter what!

Hmmm, and maybe it's because I always respect Zev, but his constitution is 10 for me. Doesn't matter. He doesn't die. And I wonder if it is in the shell of the character. I know it's in his default tactics to attack whatever is attacking the warden, but I take it you change that one.  It's in Daveth's default tactics as well, which is part of the reason I like him so much!

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 07:10 .

[Cuddlezarro]

Alistair is quite jealous, no matter what!

even if your a guy hes jealous!



...shame I didnt take a screenshot of his reacting to Alexander saying hes jealous of me and zevran



also does any one know how to get the "you and zevran have a connection" part of the gossip dialogue if your romancing him or is it "females only"