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[Cuddlezarro]

No one can reverse Maric's decision to elevate Loghain.

well they can but not under normal circumstances



Loghain was stripped of his title and lands if you recruit him, and Levi drydan's family was once a noble family until the name was blacklisted and you can also ask for the howes to lose their noble titles and lands

[Jaulen]

Question: So then if you recruit Loghain, and he's stripped of titles and lands....what would that make Anora? After all, her 'nobility' is based on her father's status...strip that status from Loghain (the patriach) and it's a dominoes effect....wouldn't she then also lose her status as a noble (see Drydens and Howes as examples).

So then, if Loghain is recruited, Anora becomes a commoner-Queen with NO claim other than marriage, which would be trumped in all cases by a blood-claim.

EDIT: So she IS the power-hungry status-skeeing throne-stealing b!tch I have always thought her to be.

Modifié par Jaulen, 18 février 2010 - 09:16 .

[Cuddlezarro]

if you recruit loghain she has to become queen in some for either as your wife, alistairs wife or sole ruler theres no other options sadly

and if you or Alistair marry Anora then her claim gets some legitimacy since your a Cousland/Therin aka the most powerful noble familys in ferelden

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 18 février 2010 - 09:21 .

[Jaulen]

that really sucks since if you recruit Loghain, she shouldn't have any claim at all to the throne.

So you can't spare Loghain and have Alistair rule without Anora?

I've never played through the rescue Anora as "I trust her." Even with the cut scenes between her and Loghain/Howe, I was always very suspicious of her. After all 'the apple doesn't fall far from the tree'. And when she betrays you at the Landsmeet, I wish I could also cut off her head too.

Modifié par Jaulen, 18 février 2010 - 09:24 .

[Cuddlezarro]

no you cant spare loghain and have alistair rule alone... alistair even hardened will run off and become a wandering drunk if you dont arrange the marriage



also

So she IS the power-hungry status-skeeing throne-stealing b!tch I have always thought her to be.

well your gonna love this then



you know the whole "HELP ME howe and daddy are going to murder me" plot well Loghain had no intentions to let his daughter die and Anora knew it



she wanted you to "rescue" her because and I quote loghain "it gave her no small amount of pleasure" and so she could gain sympathy and an alliance that could help her stay on the throne

[Sabriana]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

No one can reverse Maric's decision to elevate Loghain.

well they can but not under normal circumstances

Loghain was stripped of his title and lands if you recruit him, and Levi drydan's family was once a noble family until the name was blacklisted and you can also ask for the howes to lose their noble titles and lands

True enough. I forgot about that.

Jaulen, that's true, she is noble through Loghain, but her nobility is not stripped. She became a noble by birth, although she is not of noble blood. Loghain is stripped because he became a GW, and also that is played quite losely in Ferelden, it is said that GW can't hold titles and land because it jeopadises (sp?) their neutral status.

He is stripped of them, but not his family. I know it's hard to understand, but the Drydens were demoted (so to speak) as a family, and so would Howe's be if the HNF/M asks for it. Mine never do, they don't want to punish Tomas and Delilah because of their father's deeds.

[Jaulen]

That's true, different thing happening there. Loghain loses HIS claim, but it's not stripping the familiy of their status.

[Sabriana]

Jaulen wrote...

That's true, different thing happening there. Loghain loses HIS claim, but it's not stripping the familiy of their status.

Yeah, those nobles are a tricky beast to understand.

@ Cuddlezarro

Oh wow. I get all kinds of surprises. I never had Anora betray me at the Landsmeet, and somehow I never got those lines. Well, heck. I never disliked her, I even felt a bit sorry for her after she and my PC had the 'talk' about Alistair. This puts a whole other light on her.

Well, that does it. My PC (and all that follow her) will stick with Zevran. At least he loves her truly and completely, and he seems to be the most loyal of all companions. Let the nobility tear each other apart. If worse comes to worse, she'll stand with Fergus (not my mage though), other than that, they deserve each other.

[Cuddlezarro]

Oh wow. I get all kinds of surprises. I never had Anora betray me at the Landsmeet, and somehow I never got those lines. Well, heck. I never disliked her, I even felt a bit sorry for her after she and my PC had the 'talk' about Alistair. This puts a whole other light on her.

while iv had Anora betray me at the landsmeet (its worth it just so you can call her a ****) the dialogue i was referring to about Anora pretty much having you rescue her for **** and giggles came from loghain once I recruited him
 his dialogue concerning Anora is interesting and he has some regrets about the fact he feels like he wasnt that good of a father to Anora
 and even if you dont believe that he would never kill Anora he also says the exact same thing to shale during a banter when she brings it up

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 18 février 2010 - 09:47 .

[EccentricSage]

Oh! (been reading people's convo and getting caught up)



And I didn't have Zevran yet when I went to the Mage's tower! D: If I had, seeing that would have been all it would take to win Dristen's heart. Though he still want to hang on to Morrigan longer because he had an affinity for her from their early convos, and because he really can't imagine what it would be like to have been denied companionship growing up... to have been raised to be alone.... But his heart would have been Zevrans and he would have told Morrigan that of his own accord a lot sooner... but at least this way he got Zevran's speech about how he couldn't be a cheat on Morrigan, and his pleasant surprise at being the chosen one.



I find it interesting... despite the rivalry that my two timing caused, and despite their suspicions of eachother, there's always a certain level of respect and even a bit of admeration between the two. Morrigan... she took it hard and well all at the same time. LOL Huge disaprooval, but she actually payed Zev a compliment in her dialogue with me and was still super nice to my character and everything. She's such a mystery. lol



Also.... I started this game knowing I liked Zev from a few spoilers and youtube videos right of f the bat, but the spoilers that I'm hearing here are really... wow. I don't mind, of course. I'm far too impatient, and it would break my heart if I made a big mistake towards the end and had things end badly. I thought I already has Zev figured out, but I'm still being surprised by what I'm hearing about later in the game. Very pleasantly surprised. The writing for Zev really is incredible. I can't wait! He is really just so beautiful. And to think, anyone could dismiss him or kill him out of simple practicality as he lay there at the ambush. It really shakes you to think. Of course, my Dalish couldn't possibly... he was too lonely for his own kind and to wise to the horrible circumstances of fellow elves to not at least give Zevran a chance.



And yes... Zevran's ability to figure out what people are hiding... ether from eachother, or even from themselves, and to pick away at that... is just aw inspiring. He's brilliant. And yet, you do still always have this sence that he bears them no actual ill will, too. And I second you guys a few pages back on how wonderful it is that he wants to stand at the Warden's side and help carry the burden instead of just following, nitpicking, and asking favors like the rest.



I remember in /v/ on 4chan, a guy in a thread asking why all the guys think Alistair is such a great bro, and saying how Alistair is so ungrateful, week, and jugemental, while Zevran on the other hand will stand his ground, respect you, help you, and follow you to hell and back if you merely treat him well. It made me happy, since most streight guys seem to get all uncomfortable and keep their distance from Zev even if they don't kill him, because he's so forward about being interested. He said in his playthrough, he romanced Morrigan, did the ritual, and then she took off on him, and Zevran then chose to acompany him to find Morrigan, pregnant with his demon child, while everyone else went and did their own thing, uninterested in helping him.



So yeah. XD I totally am going to have a bromance file with Zev, too, though it's going to take all my willpower not to 'accidentaly' take up his offer of a 'massage'. XD

[Sabriana]

But..., but I had Loghain in my party, why didn't he tell me that? True, I never bothered to raise his approval all that high, because I never intended to have him do the ritual, but I have to do that this time around. And I have to remember to bring Shale with me.

I brought Zevran (of course) and my dog because I wanted to hear the banter between Zevran and him (I still giggle even thinking of: "I'm terribly broken up over it." )

Loghain and dog are quite heart-warming, he really misses his dog, and I really hated Orlais after hearing him. I'm one of those people that loves cats *and* dogs

[ejoslin]

If you don't start romancing Zevran, keep it friendzone, he will never offer a massage. In fact, you can very easily turn off the romance completely. If you haven't, it really is completely irrelevant (aside from some minor dialog selections) whether you've been to the tent before or after he falls in love.

Anora loses all claim to Gwaren after Loghain is stripped. Even she refers to it as her father's Teyrnir, not hers, if made queen.

Edit: And yes, Zevran is very much a surprise, on many levels.  He is far FAR different than what he appears at first.  What he starts showing the warden, what he starts showing the rest of the party after he's been with them is amazing.  We all love him here for many reasons, but no one will ever argue the absolute depth of the character.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 10:08 .

[Cuddlezarro]

Loghains story about his dog had me on the verge of tears...yes im an animal person to

[jenovan]

Sabriana wrote...

But..., but I had Loghain in my party, why didn't he tell me that? True, I never bothered to raise his approval all that high, because I never intended to have him do the ritual, but I have to do that this time around. And I have to remember to bring Shale with me.
I brought Zevran (of course) and my dog because I wanted to hear the banter between Zevran and him (I still giggle even thinking of: "I'm terribly broken up over it." )
Loghain and dog are quite heart-warming, he really misses his dog, and I really hated Orlais after hearing him. I'm one of those people that loves cats *and* dogs

There's a long chain of conversation to ask Loghain about Anora... I'm glad my PC didn't really trust her to begin with, because he would have felt horrible for doing so after finding out more about her. XD  Ah, politicians.

The Zevran/Loghain banter is hilarious, all the  more so because Loghain takes it pretty well, I think. XD  I've seen that he's surprisingly cordial.  (Dog? I'll have to try that one, aww.)

[Sabriana]

EccentricSage wrote...

good stuff

Oh, I like it when people have just started on Zevran. I can repeat all the good stuff about him without feeling guilty.

But so true, he's just as good as a friend without being romanced. He will be a loyal friend, and the Warden can count on him.

I don't understand this Zevran hate either. His romance is so easy to turn off. Don't hedge, don't challenge him (the don't bother line), just say "No" and he'll back off for good.
Now Leliana..., every play-through, no matter how rude my PC is to her, she suddenly falls in love. I don't mind her, I have little use for her, she and Wynne usually stay in camp, but having to constantly break up with her is getting tiresome.

Can you imagine the screaming and yelling going on in the forums if Zevran was that glitchy?

What's a "bromance"? I'm sorry, I'm not English. I'm pretty good at it, if I say so myself, but I've never heard that word before.

[Cuddlezarro]

Loghain has 2 banters with Dog Jenovan just a heads up the second one is pretty sad

What's a "bromance"? I'm sorry, I'm not English. I'm pretty good at it,
if I say so myself, but I've never heard that word before.

urban dictionary to the rescue!

http://www.urbandict...p?term=bromance

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 18 février 2010 - 10:13 .

[Jaulen]

*Anora loses all claim to Gwaren after Loghain is stripped. Even she refers to it as her father's Teyrnir, not hers, if made queen.*

Okay, that just makes the 'why does Anora think she has a claim to the throne other than she was boinking the king' question all the murkier.

Edit: Bromance: (at least my take) really very close good firend relationship between guys, like brothers. (kind of like the male verion of Best Friends Forever)

Modifié par Jaulen, 18 février 2010 - 10:14 .

[Sabriana]

Oh, Jenovan is here, another writer. Creature asked in another thread what Zevran would say to Wynne if she asked him to keep his filthy mitts off the Warden.

What would you imagine he would say?



In regards to Gwaren, that's inconsistent then. That shouldn't have happened, because she can't be queen if she is stripped alongside her father. Weird.

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

That dialog shows more the rivalry between Alistair and Zevran, actually. Alistair is quite jealous, no matter what!

Ah yes, that dialogue.  The schlong-measuring contest.  Tsk, Alistair, sooo obvious!  Bravo to Zevran for not playing, at least not then.  He does get back at Alistair, though, again and again. 

[ejoslin]

Jaulen wrote...

*Anora loses all claim to Gwaren after Loghain is stripped. Even she refers to it as her father's Teyrnir, not hers, if made queen.*

Okay, that just makes the 'why does Anora think she has a claim to the throne other than she was boinking the king' question all the murkier.

Edit: Bromance: (at least my take) really very close good firend relationship between guys, like brothers. (kind of like the male verion of Best Friends Forever)

That is Anora's sole claim, and she will admit it when the HNM wants to marry her. But I get tired of arguing it in love-Alistair threads.

Edit: added quoted text.  people here just post too quickly 

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 février 2010 - 10:16 .

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

That dialog shows more the rivalry between Alistair and Zevran, actually. Alistair is quite jealous, no matter what!

Ah yes, that dialogue.  The schlong-measuring contest.  Tsk, Alistair, sooo obvious!  Bravo to Zevran for not playing, at least not then.  He does get back at Alistair, though, again and again. 

Alistair does manage to strike a nerve once, though.  Heh, once.  Do not doubt Zevran's feelings of loyalty towards the warden, ever!

[Jaulen]

*Alistair does manage to strike a nerve once, though. Heh, once. Do not doubt Zevran's feelings of loyalty towards the warden, ever!*

Oooh, what's that dialogue?


What's the argument you ahve to give to the Alistair-love thread peeps?

Modifié par Jaulen, 18 février 2010 - 10:28 .

[Sabriana]

Thanks Cuddlezarro. That helped alot.

Yes Jaulen that about describes it. A loving non-sexual relationship between men. That's a funny word though. It sounds funny to my ears, no offense intended. I bet a lot of my language would sound really funny to your ears as well.

Strangely enough, I knew right away what 'schlong measuring' meant, even though I never heard that before either. Strange, that. Maybe I should blush?

[jenovan]

Sabriana wrote...

Oh, Jenovan is here, another writer. Creature asked in another thread what Zevran would say to Wynne if she asked him to keep his filthy mitts off the Warden.
What would you imagine he would say?

Hmmm, depends on how exactly Wynne said it.  I could imagine him making some kind of humorous reply -- maybe offering to put his filthy mitts on her too? XD   BUT -- I think his ultimate answer would be something along the lines of, it's the Warden's choice to make, not Wynne's, maybe with an extra ding in there for her being a busybody.

[Sabriana]

Jaulen wrote...

*Alistair does manage to strike a nerve once, though. Heh, once. Do not doubt Zevran's feelings of loyalty towards the warden, ever!*

Oooh, what's that dialogue?

I believe it's that one. Zevran does get angry during this dialogue:

• Alistair: So I have a question for you, Zevran. You're here, at least in part, to get away from the Crows, right?
• Zevran: That is indeed true.
• Alistair: So when this is over, what do you intend to do with yourself? You can't go back to Antiva, I assume.
• Zevran: What I do depends in large part upon your fellow Grey Warden. I am not a free man, as it were.
• Alistair: Yes, yes, but what if you could do whatever you wanted?
• Zevran: What makes you think I intend to go anywhere?
• Alistair: So you do intend to go back to the Crows?
• Zevran: I said no such thing. I think I should stay where I am. Ferelden is a marvelous country.
• Alistair: Why don't I believe you?
• Zevran: You're not much of a patriot, are you? Well I'm not going to listen to such slander of my new home. Off with you, then.