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[Sylph_14]

Oh gads the POEM. I headdesk every time I hear it. It's just so BAD D:



It's absolutely adorable that he tells you it to try and cheer ya up though I don't remember any of the other characters ever thinking I need cheering up :/

[jenovan]

Sylph_14 wrote...

Oh gads the POEM. I headdesk every time I hear it. It's just so BAD D:

It's absolutely adorable that he tells you it to try and cheer ya up though I don't remember any of the other characters ever thinking I need cheering up :/

The poem made me LOL, literally. Ouch!!

But yeah, it was sweet of him to try to cheer you up.  I had just been thinking, seriously, of how serious my PC always looked, and here is Zevran pointing it out.  (Which, come to think of it, is sort of interesting, since he also says something along the lines that he found joy only because he wasn't expecting it... Hmm..)

[Namirsolo]

 The poem made me laugh, and I was happy for it because I had just agonized over whether to chose him or Alistair (my very first, so blind, playthrough). I ended up having two saves- one for the Alistair romance and one for Zev. haha

I think that the "party Antivan style" line might be one of the random things that your party members comment as you walk around (although i haven't seen it myself). I can't figure out what the triggers are for this stuff, but I always have Zevran in my party and on my third playthrough i heard new stuff from him. When I got to Orzammar he was commenting on everything ("oh drunken dwarves") is the only one I can specifically remember, but I know he had at least two more that I had never heard before. I'm thinking it might be random.

[Mythria]

I keep trying to rehabilitate Zev. So far I haven't done it.

[Default137]

Namirsolo wrote...

 The poem made me laugh, and I was happy for it because I had just agonized over whether to chose him or Alistair (my very first, so blind, playthrough). I ended up having two saves- one for the Alistair romance and one for Zev. haha

I think that the "party Antivan style" line might be one of the random things that your party members comment as you walk around (although i haven't seen it myself). I can't figure out what the triggers are for this stuff, but I always have Zevran in my party and on my third playthrough i heard new stuff from him. When I got to Orzammar he was commenting on everything ("oh drunken dwarves") is the only one I can specifically remember, but I know he had at least two more that I had never heard before. I'm thinking it might be random.

Yeah it seemed like a random thing to, probably set to be said between the Landsmeet and the fight with the Archdemon, I had been taking my sweet time, and must of got lucky, and it ended up triggering, it was really sad though for it to trigger like that, right there.

[ejoslin]

Mythria wrote...

I keep trying to rehabilitate Zev. So far I haven't done it.

He remains incorrigible.   But I like that my PC is stuck with him anyway!

[Sabriana]

Zevran does state several times that he has regrets over what he had to do. It shouldn't be forgotten that he never really had a choice, ever. He was sold into slavery at age 7.

His tone of voice when he says about the Crows "They buy them young, raise them to know nothing but murder [...]" is very telling, because to me it sounds like it's full of hate toward the Crows. I think it's a slip up on his part, and he reveals what he really feels about the Crows. Because in the beginning he goes to great length to deny that assassins are murderers.

After Taliesan, my PC told him that he should decide what he wants to do, and I always find it very endearing that he seems confused by that. He says something like "But I never had a choice. Everything was always decided for me".

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Zevran does state several times that he has regrets over what he had to do. It shouldn't be forgotten that he never really had a choice, ever. He was sold into slavery at age 7.
His tone of voice when he says about the Crows "They buy them young, raise them to know nothing but murder [...]" is very telling, because to me it sounds like it's full of hate toward the Crows. I think it's a slip up on his part, and he reveals what he really feels about the Crows. Because in the beginning he goes to great length to deny that assassins are murderers.
After Taliesan, my PC told him that he should decide what he wants to do, and I always find it very endearing that he seems confused by that. He says something like "But I never had a choice. Everything was always decided for me".

Mine always tells him she'll be sorely put out if he leaves.  I think he's never had anyone make him feel important before.

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

Mine always tells him she'll be sorely put out if he leaves.  I think he's never had anyone make him feel important before.

I have to yet try that line. I'm always afraid to leash him, because my PC feels that he's been leashed enough in his life. But I'll certainly try it out. I'm going to take a page out of your book and make multiple 'Zevran' saves. :happy:

But I can certainly see that he'd be happy that someone feels he is so very important. His facial expression and tone of voice when he tells my PC that his master said those cruel things to him after killing Rinna are heartbreaking. Something in the line of:

PC: "Why would he (the master) say this?"
Zevran: "To show that I am nothing. To show that she was nothing."

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Mine always tells him she'll be sorely put out if he leaves.  I think he's never had anyone make him feel important before.

I have to yet try that line. I'm always afraid to leash him, because my PC feels that he's been leashed enough in his life. But I'll certainly try it out. I'm going to take a page out of your book and make multiple 'Zevran' saves. :happy:

But I can certainly see that he'd be happy that someone feels he is so very important. His facial expression and tone of voice when he tells my PC that his master said those cruel things to him after killing Rinna are heartbreaking. Something in the line of:

PC: "Why would he (the master) say this?"
Zevran: "To show that I am nothing. To show that she was nothing."

It's worse if you ask him if he felt guilty.  Then he says: "I felt empty.  Like I was nothing.  That she had been nothing."  

Zevran, no matter what, is choosing to stay with you if he stays when he's free to go.  If he doesn't want to stay, he will ask to go, and if you insist he stay, then you're leashing him.  Look at it this way; even when he's giving you the earring for the first time, he can't bring himself to say that it's because he cares for you, though he almost slips up and says it.  He can't bring himself at that point to say he wants to stay.  However, if his approval is lower at that point or if you tell him you don't return his feelings, he will ask to leave.  

I've been married IRL for 18 (!) years, and learned a long time ago that men just communicate differently than women do.  For a woman, often she'll think she's giving a guy freedom to "choose" in this type of situation, where a man just wants to be told he's wanted.  If you tell a guy he can choose to do whatever he wants, it can always be taken as you don't care what he wants.  Once a man is in love with a woman, his whole outlook changes.  

Edit: And you're right, the look on his face is heartbreaking.  It's not only because of what he did, but because he realized at that moment exactly what he was worth to the Crows.

Modifié par ejoslin, 05 janvier 2010 - 12:24 .

[Creature 1]

ejoslin wrote...
I've been married IRL for 18 (!) years, and learned a long time ago that men just communicate differently than women do.  For a woman, often she'll think she's giving a guy freedom to "choose" in this type of situation, where a man just wants to be told he's wanted.  If you tell a guy he can choose to do whatever he wants, it can always be taken as you don't care what he wants.  Once a man is in love with a woman, his whole outlook changes.

I want him to stay if he wants to stay, but he only wants to stay if he knows that I want him to stay, and not just if he wants to. . . 

[Sabriana]

I was married too, and I agree. Heck, even communicating to my son is way different than communicating with my daughter.

I was just a little worried that Zevran would utterly resent being leashed once again. Remember, I've not tried the other versions yet, but be assured that I will.



@ Creature

Thank you for making my head spin

[ejoslin]

Creature 1 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
I've been married IRL for 18 (!) years, and learned a long time ago that men just communicate differently than women do.  For a woman, often she'll think she's giving a guy freedom to "choose" in this type of situation, where a man just wants to be told he's wanted.  If you tell a guy he can choose to do whatever he wants, it can always be taken as you don't care what he wants.  Once a man is in love with a woman, his whole outlook changes.

I want him to stay if he wants to stay, but he only wants to stay if he knows that I want him to stay, and not just if he wants to. . . 

Hahahaha, just the type of game he HATES!  Ask him if he wants to break up after he starts refusing to go to your tent, and if you get to, "well, I asked you first," he gets really p.o.'ed.

I actually understand why guys get so confused by women.  We just communicate SO much differently.  And I have to laugh at how well this game captures that.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

I was married too, and I agree. Heck, even communicating to my son is way different than communicating with my daughter.
I was just a little worried that Zevran would utterly resent being leashed once again. Remember, I've not tried the other versions yet, but be assured that I will.

@ Creature
Thank you for making my head spin

Oooh, ok, that makes sense.  But no, if he wants to go, he asks to go.  He is always upfront about this stuff.  It's probably my favorite thing about the character.

[Sylph_14]

ejoslin wrote...

Zevran, no matter what, is choosing to stay with you if he stays when he's free to go.  If he doesn't want to stay, he will ask to go, and if you insist he stay, then you're leashing him.  Look at it this way; even when he's giving you the earring for the first time, he can't bring himself to say that it's because he cares for you, though he almost slips up and says it.  He can't bring himself at that point to say he wants to stay.  However, if his approval is lower at that point or if you tell him you don't return his feelings, he will ask to leave.  

The part where he aaaalmost slips up is so endearing. He says something like "It's meant a lot to me, but so have... so has everything you've done."

Also, it's 5:30 am, why am I up and posting? D:

[ejoslin]

Sylph_14 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Zevran, no matter what, is choosing to stay with you if he stays when he's free to go.  If he doesn't want to stay, he will ask to go, and if you insist he stay, then you're leashing him.  Look at it this way; even when he's giving you the earring for the first time, he can't bring himself to say that it's because he cares for you, though he almost slips up and says it.  He can't bring himself at that point to say he wants to stay.  However, if his approval is lower at that point or if you tell him you don't return his feelings, he will ask to leave.  

The part where he aaaalmost slips up is so endearing. He says something like "It's meant a lot to me, but so have... so has everything you've done."

Also, it's 5:30 am, why am I up and posting? D:

When he finally CAN bring himself to say it, wow, he does it with style! He's a bit awkward at the second giving of the earring, but at the gates?  WOW!

[Sabriana]

That's another difference between the two romances. Saying "I love you to the end" means little to Alistair, but saying that he deeply cares for the PC is hard for Zevran.

I played a human mage my very first play-through, and was utterly appalled at how little meaning Alistair's words had. He dumped her right then and there, after she made him king, and to top the humiliation off, he can be persuaded that the PC can be his piece on the side. Get thee away from me, cur.

That play through ending was actually the point where Zevran roped me in (no pun intended... probably). You see, my PC was flirty with him, but stayed committed to Alistair. In the end, when she was completely humiliated by the one she thought loved her with all his heart, there was Zevran, ready and willing to pick up the pieces.

And that was that. From there on out, none of my PC's can never, ever say 'no' to Zevran.
I guess I took Alistair's behavior toward my PC, and his reaction when Loghain is spared too personally, but I just can't romance him anymore. I tried, especially after reading that there is a way to go off into the sun-set with him, but as soon as Zevran enters the picture, my resolve to see the Alistair romance through crumbles.

Modifié par Sabriana, 05 janvier 2010 - 01:04 .

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

That's another difference between the two romances. Saying "I love you to the end" means little to Alistair, but saying that he deeply cares for the PC is hard for Zevran.

I played a human mage my very first play-through, and was utterly appalled at how little meaning Alistair's words had. He dumped her right then and there, after she made him king, and to top the humiliation off, he can be persuaded that the PC can be his piece on the side. Get thee away from me, cur.

That play through ending was actually the point where Zevran roped me in (no pun intended... probably). You see, my PC was flirty with him, but stayed committed to Alistair. In the end, when she was completely humiliated by the one she thought loved her with all his heart, there was Zevran, ready and willing to pick up the pieces.

And that was that. From there on out, none of my PC's can never, ever say 'no' to Zevran.
I guess I took Alistair's behavior toward my PC, and his reaction when Loghain is spared too personally, but I just can't romance him anymore. I tried, especially after reading that there is a way to go off into the sun-set with him, but as soon as Zevran enters the picture, my resolve to see the Alistair romance through crumbles.

ROFL!  I could have written this.  My PC in my first play through was so in love with Ali, and when he dumped her, Zevran was there to pick up the pieces.  I have to admit I have done a few play throughs to get revenge -- dumping Ali after he falls in love (ugh, he is relieved when that happens), marrying him without romancing him and telling him I'm trying for an heir with someone else.  Romancing him and telling him the same thing then dumping him, still marrying him, and keeping Zevran on the side.  Mainly though, I don't romance Alistair.  It's annoying that you can't turn off all romance possibilities from the start -- that you have to get him interested and then dump him to turn those off.  Usually I'm at the arch demon still able to tell him he's handsome (ugh).

Even though my current play through is human noble (again), I haven't decided whether she will be queen or not yet.  Since she romanced Ali, I know I won't like that epilogue as it's far better when she doesn't romance him (either she's the beloved bride or the the ruler and savior and i know which I prefer).  I'm actually thinking Ali must die this time around.

[ejoslin]

A further thought on whether Zevran would feel leashed if the PC asks him to stay straight off rather than trying to make him decide. From the start, as soon as he starts moving into either interested or warm, he asks the PC what her intentions are. He tells her that if they grow fond of each other he'll want to stay. So after Taliesen, even though at that point he's not saying he wants to stay because of the PC, he had already told her a long time ago that he would want to stay with her (granted, when he had no clue he would fall in love). In dialogs, there are very few choices that the PC has to let Zevran know that she cares, at least in a non-jealous way (and I will say that jealousy and caring are two very different things). Which is a good thing, because while Alistair may like the gushing, I just don't get the same feeling from Zevran.

[Sabriana]

Yes, he does. That was quite shocking for my PC actually. She never saw that coming. She told him that she'll not hold him to any oath, yet he keeps saying "fine, but what if..." No matter what she says to him about him not being indentured, he keeps circling back to that.

Especially the "Is there no reason that I should stay?" At that point my PC was all but hooked.

[ejoslin]

Don't you get the feeling from the way that whole romance plays out that Zevran knows from the start just how fantastic the PC is? He certainly spends a lot of time trying to portray himself in a horrible light as well, making sure she knows what it is she would be getting herself into. Opposed to Ali, who I don't think ever saw the PC as who she really was, and never realized what he was letting go.

[jenovan]

Sabriana wrote...
Especially the "Is there no reason that I should stay?" At that point my PC was all but hooked.

I loved that line   Or, well, I suppose the exact line I got was "Is there no one I might stay for?" At that point my PC wasn't really aware of Zevran's feelings, but that was a major hint, and that was relatively early in their friendship.  It truly caught me by surprise, and if I hadn't already decided that the PC was was going to try to romance Zevran anyway, that might have done it. X3

[Rhinna]

ejoslin wrote...

Don't you get the feeling from the way that whole romance plays out that Zevran knows from the start just how fantastic the PC is? He certainly spends a lot of time trying to portray himself in a horrible light as well, making sure she knows what it is she would be getting herself into. Opposed to Ali, who I don't think ever saw the PC as who she really was, and never realized what he was letting go.

I think Zev was trying to lay his cards out on the table - sort of "here...this is what you are getting into" and perhaps seeing if the PC DID care for him as much as he did for her?  Or trying to unconsciously drive her away, because the only thing he ever loved (Rinna) he destroyed?

*sighs* on an aside - you *must* take Zev and Shale to Orzammar.  Cutest dialogues ever!  Zev just had a whole convo with Shale about her lack of a 'partner" and the things that "squishies" can do, that Shale cannot (like make love, be in love) He then initiated another dialogue with Shale about starting a family, and having kids, and how that was one of the joys in life...omg I just melted.  Can you imagine Zev bouncing a baby on his knee? LOL and giving him a toy dagger to play with? I can just see the conversation now:

Zev: "OK son...this is how you hold the dagger...like so...Good! now jab quickly into the toy bear, twist with your wrist...AHa! That's my boy! Excellent!"

PC: *sighs* "MUST you Zevvie?"

Zev: *winks at PC then looks at his son in his lap* "EVERY man needs to know how to defend himself...and his woman...by the way son...did I ever tell you how I met your mother...."  *laughs as PC walks by, gives her a loving slap on the behind and whispers "You want to play Pirate later on?"

LOL

I think one of the major appeals of Zev to me is that he may not come out and kiss you each time you ask, or say "Maker's breath! but you're beautiful!"  however...in his side conversations with your travelling companions, you *know* how much he cares about you, and his loyalty is unswerving, his devotion unconditional.

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

Don't you get the feeling from the way that whole romance plays out that Zevran knows from the start just how fantastic the PC is? He certainly spends a lot of time trying to portray himself in a horrible light as well, making sure she knows what it is she would be getting herself into. Opposed to Ali, who I don't think ever saw the PC as who she really was, and never realized what he was letting go.

Yes he is brutally honest. I do feel that he even exaggerates his being a horrible person at times. When he tells her that he really likes being an assassin is one of those times, because later on he lets out that he does have many regrets, and that he had to do many things that were distasteful to him.

jenovan wrote:
I loved that line   Or, well, I suppose the exact line I got was "Is there no one I might stay for?" At that point my PC wasn't really aware of Zevran's feelings, but that was a major hint, and that was relatively early in their friendship.  It truly caught me by surprise, and if I hadn't already decided that the PC was was going to try to romance Zevran anyway, that might have done it. X3

Yeah, that was exactly what happened to my PC. During my first play-through my mage (sad, silly mage) romanced Alistair, and I don't think that line came up. Or maybe I wasn't paying enough attention to Zevran at the time, but on my second one the line certainly popped up. My PC was determined not to let any romance get in the way, but that washed her resolve all but away.

[Sabriana]

Not only Rinna, but his mother as well. He states that his mother died giving birth to him and says "my first victim, so to speak". The expression on his face is such that my PC wants to reach out, hug him, and comfort him.