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[Sresla]

Wow, am I lucky or what? Went and did some work and all the while was contemplating what was brought up a few pages ago, about Wynne and the "relationship talk", then come back and you guys went off that topic and then Sage brings it back up again so I can segway into this - I apologize, I am certainly no Jenovan (who has mad writing skills), but this is the scene that, in my story, occurs right after that discussion. Angry Wynne is angry!

PS. WTB preview, edited for formatting.

Modifié par Sresla, 19 février 2010 - 11:49 .

[ejoslin]

I think I've tried all the romance-start lines with Zevran now; some are far better than others, but one thing I have noticed. In all but two of the conversations (do you stare at everyone like that, and asking him if it's after you ravish him), the romance starting line, IF you're already in a romance, gives you a terribly jaded response.

Examples, when he asks you if you can picture him being anything but an assassin, if you're not in a romance and you answer, "Handsome elf like you? I can think of a few things," he laughs and says something very similar back. But if the romance has begun, he asks if you're planning on peddling him out to wealthy noblewomen. Or when you ask him what he fancies, if not romanced yet, he gives that incredible answer that we all know (I fancy many things . . .) but if the romance has begun, he says something along the lines of, "For now I fancy you, which is handy as I'm following you across the countryside, unless you decide to kill me, which i hear spoils the mood." They're all kind of like that, though

He really does have a lot of mistrust for the warden and their motivations at first. Which is very understandable. I suppose since he had always used sex as a tool, why wouldn't the warden as well? Gah, I need more coffee and I need to think about this more. I'm sure I'll write more later!

Edit: Different subject, but no need for a new post  . . . Sresla, I'm reading your story, and I LIKE it!  You have Wynne pegged.  And I can see a conversation like that going down.  

Second edit: Actually, after rereading it, can I say that I like it more.  You captured a lot in it.

Modifié par ejoslin, 19 février 2010 - 12:03 .

[Sabriana]

Read it, commented on it. Absolutely beautifully captured



*bows to Sresla*

[EccentricSage]

ejoslin wrote...

He really does have a lot of mistrust for the warden and their motivations at first. Which is very understandable. I suppose since he had always used sex as a tool, why wouldn't the warden as well? Gah, I need more coffee and I need to think about this more. I'm sure I'll write more later!

Edit: Different subject, but no need for a new post  . . . Sresla, I'm reading your story, and I LIKE it!  You have Wynne pegged.  And I can see a conversation like that going down.  

Second edit: Actually, after rereading it, can I say that I like it more.  You captured a lot in it.

It might be mistrust because he uses sex that way, or it might also be mistrust because he has been used for sex that way...and worse... considering his upbringing.

My Dalish got the sexy talk with Zev before a romance had any chance to begin, but my Dristen was still confused and had too much on his mind to deal with this... so he was all grateful but indecisive...

Boy was he surprised when he did finaly aprouch Zev, all coy and teasing, and ended up with Zev being coy right back, and even getting pissed at one point.  XD  Zev's only easy on his terms.  Well... unless you literally order him into bed.  But Dristen is to sensitive, and still unsure.

Realy, I thought, from Dristen's POV, he'd want to just get Zev in the tent and talk, and see where it goes.  But oh that Zev is a wiley one.  LOL  Managed to thoughraly confuse and frustrate Dristen.  Who then took his 'blueballs' as some call it and pouted over Morrigan and Zev both putting him out.  XD

[jenovan]

Raiynsong wrote...
@jenovan:  read your fan fic.  Nice writing !

Thank you!   (I have to admit I'm always relieved to hear from Zevran fans XD;

And to Sresla -- that was epic.   I'd love to read more, if there is more. XD


Oh, man... slightly OT, slightly not, but you know how we talk about getting the most revealing stuff out of Zevran by being mean to him?  It applies elsewhere too.  The writers are cruel.   *magePC spent time last night having final conversations with Jowan*

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...

I think I've tried all the romance-start lines with Zevran now; some are far better than others, but one thing I have noticed. In all but two of the conversations (do you stare at everyone like that, and asking him if it's after you ravish him), the romance starting line, IF you're already in a romance, gives you a terribly jaded response.

Examples, when he asks you if you can picture him being anything but an assassin, if you're not in a romance and you answer, "Handsome elf like you? I can think of a few things," he laughs and says something very similar back. But if the romance has begun, he asks if you're planning on peddling him out to wealthy noblewomen. Or when you ask him what he fancies, if not romanced yet, he gives that incredible answer that we all know (I fancy many things . . .) but if the romance has begun, he says something along the lines of, "For now I fancy you, which is handy as I'm following you across the countryside, unless you decide to kill me, which i hear spoils the mood." They're all kind of like that, though

He really does have a lot of mistrust for the warden and their motivations at first. Which is very understandable. I suppose since he had always used sex as a tool, why wouldn't the warden as well? Gah, I need more coffee and I need to think about this more. I'm sure I'll write more later!

I'd wondered about this, 'cos I'd see people mention him having one reaction, and then I'd find a totally different one... XD  Gahh, such detail in this game...   It seems to me from those responses that, if you've started down the romance path, he may expect you to realize that (even if you don't... ;D).  If you joke around and play dumb (what do you fancy? when you should already know, etc.), I suppose it's  natural he'd be a little offended/put off.  I suppose to him it seems like you don't return his feelings, which might make him think that, yeah, maybe the Warden really is just with him for a good time.  Hmm, hopes that makes sense, I'm a little rushed XD

[sami jo]

[quote]jenovan wrote...

[quote]Raiynsong wrote...
Oh, man... slightly OT, slightly not, but you know how we talk about getting the most revealing stuff out of Zevran by being mean to him?  It applies elsewhere too.  The writers are cruel.   *magePC spent time last night having final conversations with Jowan*

[/quote]

Speaking of the mean dialogue options with Zev, does anyone know where it's posted?  I remember reading it but I can't find it now, and I just can't bring myself to play a character that way.

[Sabriana]

@ Jenovan

The thing is, that he always seems to end those with something detrimental to him. "Peddle him off..." or "if you don't kill me first". It seems he hopes it isn't so, but he half expects to be used once again. As usual.

You can't just wipe a whole life of experiences away in one fell swoop. It's astounding enough that he is able to retain a large piece of himself, hide it successfully from his masters, and is finally able to let it come out with his warden.

Btw. thanks a lot for that Jowan bit. I so love dangling carrots - not!  You people are all cruel.

Jowan is another one I can't be mean to, not even as a mage. I keep feeling sorry for him.

@ Sami Jo
There are a lot of them, the worst ones come after 71 adore. They're all over the place here, and many of them are (re)mentioned just a few pages back.

Really bad is the funeral scene and epiloge if the PC sacrifices herself

Also bad: After getting the earring the second time and picking the "No that's too much" option. The PC has just ripped Zevran's soul to shreds with that one. It can net the PC of up to -45 in approval.

We are best off waiting for Jenovan or Ejoslin to come back. They seem to be around.

Modifié par Sabriana, 19 février 2010 - 03:08 .

[ejoslin]

Which mean dialogs would you like? The breakups? The more uncomfortable answers? I don't think there are any complete transcripts, but I highly suggest going through all but perhaps the breakups just talking to him, even if you feel the need to reload.



Don't call him names or get judgmental, but you also don't have to be a murder cheerleader. It's just that the voice acting is so good as well as the animation -- you really get a much better picture hearing them yourself.



The breakups after he falls in love, I almost suggest you do the same thing. It gives so much more weight to what he isn't saying. For instance, I love this example, if you get the second offer of the earring and ask if it's a proposal, you may wonder by his answer if it really is something he wants or if he just will be willing to go along with it -- unless you tell him it's too much. You WILL reload, and have zero doubt that he just proposed in his own way.



Of course, watching Zevran get destroyed and still being sweet afterwards is not for the faint of heart! But it will make you love him more.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

The thing is, that he always seems to end those with something detrimental to him. "Peddle him off..." or "if you don't kill me first". It seems he hopes it isn't so, but he half expects to be used once again. As usual.

You can't just wipe a whole life of experiences away in one fell swoop. It's astounding enough that he is able to retain a large piece of himself, hide it successfully from his masters, and is finally able to let it come out with his warden.

Btw. thanks a lot for that Jowan bit. I so love dangling carrots - not!  You people are all cruel.

Jowan is another one I can't be mean to, not even as a mage. I keep feeling sorry for him.

Oh, I know.  He most certainly is not going to let himself hope that it's more.  Hmmmm, I actually think that is more reason to think he was falling in love from the start.  It's only after Taliesen that he DOES let himself hope that it is returned (as he says during breakups, that he was a fool to hope).  It's not so much that his feelings for the warden changed as it is his perspective did.

[Sabriana]

@ Ejoslin

Indeed, I too believe they were always there, just like my PC likes to throw in Wynne's face. It's just that Zevran tries to battle them off, because at first he's convinced that he's to be either used, his feelings are unreturned, or he simply doesn't deserve to be loved. (Weird sentence, I know)

Later on he realizes that she does have genuine feelings for him, and hope rises.

Gah! How much better can that get?

By the way, none of my PCs gave much credence to his deflections and defending after the Fade. Even my silly mage. I am fond of her, but she's still a silly mage.

[Creature 1]

Sabriana wrote...
Also bad: After getting the earring the second time and picking the "No that's too much" option. The PC has just ripped Zevran's soul to shreds with that one. It can net the PC of up to -45 in approval.

I have the transcript for that one at home.  If you say, "No, that's too much," he says, "Then what we feel is not enough."  You can respond to this something like, "We don't have to end it, though," and he says with a tone of finality, "I do."  Then he sounds like he's forcing himself to seem resigned and unaffected and says something about how he's sure the Gray Warden has business to attend to, ending the conversation.  

It's very uncomfortable. 

[sami jo]

ejoslin wrote...

Which mean dialogs would you like? The breakups? The more uncomfortable answers? I don't think there are any complete transcripts, but I highly suggest going through all but perhaps the breakups just talking to him, even if you feel the need to reload.

Don't call him names or get judgmental, but you also don't have to be a murder cheerleader. It's just that the voice acting is so good as well as the animation -- you really get a much better picture hearing them yourself.

The breakups after he falls in love, I almost suggest you do the same thing. It gives so much more weight to what he isn't saying. For instance, I love this example, if you get the second offer of the earring and ask if it's a proposal, you may wonder by his answer if it really is something he wants or if he just will be willing to go along with it -- unless you tell him it's too much. You WILL reload, and have zero doubt that he just proposed in his own way.

Of course, watching Zevran get destroyed and still being sweet afterwards is not for the faint of heart! But it will make you love him more.

My game on the Xbox has been glitchy enough that I don't dare.  Morrigan stopped being romanceable with any character when one of them ended it with her (for Zev ) after she had hit love.  Allistair is flirting with one of my male PCs.  If I purchase a tome or premium item with one PC, it disappears for all PC's.  If I permanently broke the interactions with Zev, I would cry.  At the moment, the only PC in the house that will run the game is my son's, and I'm not *quite* obsessed enough to actually abscond with his computer.  Now, if Zev gets glitched, I make no promises .

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

@ Ejoslin
Indeed, I too believe they were always there, just like my PC likes to throw in Wynne's face. It's just that Zevran tries to battle them off, because at first he's convinced that he's to be either used, his feelings are unreturned, or he simply doesn't deserve to be loved. (Weird sentence, I know)
Later on he realizes that she does have genuine feelings for him, and hope rises.
Gah! How much better can that get?
By the way, none of my PCs gave much credence to his deflections and defending after the Fade. Even my silly mage. I am fond of her, but she's still a silly mage.

LOL, all this mage talk is having me replaying a mage.  Of course, I cheated and just copied an old game file with a save from just before sacrificing Isolde and making a deal with the demon (gogo free skill point).  I'm so tired of Ostegar, though, that I think this is the way I'm going to go with ALL my replays!  I can live with missing the beginning of the Alistair romance, because my favorite part is the end, when Zevran forces her to choose.

[EccentricSage]

ejoslin wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

The thing is, that he always seems to end those with something detrimental to him. "Peddle him off..." or "if you don't kill me first". It seems he hopes it isn't so, but he half expects to be used once again. As usual.

You can't just wipe a whole life of experiences away in one fell swoop. It's astounding enough that he is able to retain a large piece of himself, hide it successfully from his masters, and is finally able to let it come out with his warden.

Btw. thanks a lot for that Jowan bit. I so love dangling carrots - not!  You people are all cruel.

Jowan is another one I can't be mean to, not even as a mage. I keep feeling sorry for him.

Oh, I know.  He most certainly is not going to let himself hope that it's more.  Hmmmm, I actually think that is more reason to think he was falling in love from the start.  It's only after Taliesen that he DOES let himself hope that it is returned (as he says during breakups, that he was a fool to hope).  It's not so much that his feelings for the warden changed as it is his perspective did.

I agree with this completely.  As he gets to 'care', he's already so... WARM towards the warden.  There is a sort of love there, a friendly, hopeful type.

Honestly, the more I learn here, the more conflicted I feal about the Landsmeet and him confronting the Crows.  Is there an option to tell him I'll do the fighting, that I don't want to put him through that?  Being a Dalish especialy, my character will have a strong sence that the people you grew up with and belonged to are your family... even as bad as the Crows are, I think Dristen would have an incling that there had to have been many tortured youths like Zev who aren't bad people... He's always taken Zevran's ocasional praising of the Crows or his sentimentality about Antiva as part of this.  To see him fight the only family he ever knew, and to say he's doing it for my character... That would be too much for Dristen to witness.  ;_;

[EccentricSage]

random observation: Zev is turning us all into masochists.

[Sabriana]

@ ES

If Zevran is at 71 adore and over, he has already broken with the Crows. And I don't think he considers them family, especially after his face being pushed in "you are nothing, she was nothing".

He wants to die, when that doesn't happen, he sees the Warden as a way out. He doesn't want to be with them anymore. They made him feel worthless, after all.

[Creature 1]

I don't think Zevran has much compassion for adult Crows. The training breaks them and they're not the innocent children they once were. For the most part there is no reason to feel regret over killing a Crow, besides sorrow over the potential that was destroyed years ago.

[EccentricSage]

Sabriana wrote...

@ ES
If Zevran is at 71 adore and over, he has already broken with the Crows. And I don't think he considers them family, especially after his face being pushed in "you are nothing, she was nothing".
He wants to die, when that doesn't happen, he sees the Warden as a way out. He doesn't want to be with them anymore. They made him feel worthless, after all.

Oh, I know that... that's not what I meant.  He obviously hates the people in charge, and is bitter towards the organisation for all they have done to him... but, I figure, he probably bonded with some of his colegues no matter how carefully they guard their emotions.  He still grew up with them, suffered the same training as them, and they, too, by extention, are also 'nothing' to the organisation.  so it still makes me feal cruel that he can't hang back and let Dristen be the strong one and defend him.  That is how Dristen would want it.

I'm not saying I want him to ever consider going back.  Hell no!!!   I just feal bad for the other crows that were like him, who didn't likely have a choice.  The more you think about it, it's a ****ty situation all around.  ;_;

And yes, they need to die.  It's just, if it would be even a small mercy to spare Zevran from it, I'd prefer it.  You know what I mean?  After all, there was something good left in Zevran.

Modifié par EccentricSage, 19 février 2010 - 03:35 .

[ejoslin]

EccentricSage wrote...



I agree with this completely.  As he gets to 'care', he's already so... WARM towards the warden.  There is a sort of love there, a friendly, hopeful type.

Honestly, the more I learn here, the more conflicted I feal about the Landsmeet and him confronting the Crows.  Is there an option to tell him I'll do the fighting, that I don't want to put him through that?  Being a Dalish especialy, my character will have a strong sence that the people you grew up with and belonged to are your family... even as bad as the Crows are, I think Dristen would have an incling that there had to have been many tortured youths like Zev who aren't bad people... He's always taken Zevran's ocasional praising of the Crows or his sentimentality about Antiva as part of this.  To see him fight the only family he ever knew, and to say he's doing it for my character... That would be too much for Dristen to witness.  ;_;

Hmmm, the only way to get Zevran not to fight is to have his approval be lower than 71 but for the romance to be on.  But Zevran wants to protect the Warden once he hits adore.  It's fantastic to watch, actually.  He he is going to fight, he is locked into the encounter, even if you don't have him in your party when the confrontation starts.  Zevran is a survivor, and the strongest of your companions -- this is something he needs to do.

He is so torn up about the whole thing if he doesn't fight -- heartbroken, really.  His fighting lets you know 100% that he's over Taliesen and over the Crows.

Edit: Would you like the transcription to the dialog if he is not over Taliesen yet and leaves the fight?  I don't mind doing it, but it's off screenshots so . . . 

Modifié par ejoslin, 19 février 2010 - 03:36 .

[ejoslin]

Sad Zevran putting his past behind him . . .


 

[Creature 1]

EccentricSage wrote...
Oh, I know that... that's not what I meant.  He obviously hates the people in charge, and is bitter towards the organisation for all they have done to him... but, I figure, he probably bonded with some of his colegues no matter how carefully they guard their emotions.  He still grew up with them, suffered the same training as them, and they, too, by extention, are also 'nothing' to the organisation.  so it still makes me feal cruel that he can't hang back and let Dristen be the strong one and defend him.  That is how Dristen would want it.

I'm not saying I want him to ever consider going back.  Hell no!!!   I just feal bad for the other crows that were like him, who didn't likely have a choice.  The more you think about it, it's a ****ty situation all around.  ;_;

And yes, they need to die.  It's just, if it would be even a small mercy to spare Zevran from it, I'd prefer it.  You know what I mean?  After all, there was something good left in Zevran.

I'm not sure Zevran wants to be spared.  I don't think he cares about any of the Crows present except Taliesin.  In my fic my PC offered to kill Taliesin for him but Zevran said no.  I think it would seem . . . rude or something to him to have someone else who doesn't know his friend or care about him kill Taliesin for him.  Disrespectful, as if Taliesin didn't matter.  Besides, they might screw it up and make Taliesin suffer more than necessary.  So that's why I think Zevran would want to do the job himself. 

[Sabriana]

ES, If he's over/at 71 adore, just watch and enjoy. It is made very clear what/who his priorities are at that point. Pick the first line. Gah! I don't know whether to put it here or leave you unspoiled.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

ES, If he's over/at 71 adore, just watch and enjoy. It is made very clear what/who his priorities are at that point. Pick the first line. Gah! I don't know whether to put it here or leave you unspoiled.

Leave it unspoiled for her is my vote.  It is THE best selection.  Yes yes yes!  Hahahaha, even reading it wouldn't ruin it as you can't beat hearing it but, yes, wow!

Zevran . . . NOT an elf to be pitied for sure!

Edit: my screenshot above, I brought him back into my party immediately after the fight.  You can remove and add party members in that area.  The lighting at the camp is just awful.

Modifié par ejoslin, 19 février 2010 - 03:48 .

[Jaulen]

PLayed through to the end last night, and saved so I could complete the romances (yes, somehow Alistair had decided we were in a romance. So I tried not picking either and levaing them both in love, picking Zev and picking Alistair).

I had hardened Alistair and tossed Anora in the tower.

Funny line with Alistair in love was "Waht about Anora?" "Let her get her own conquering hero, I've found mine." (Um, dude, didn't we decide to lock Anora up? Or am I forgetting something?" His lines as a npon-completed romance were the same as a friend.



My favorite line of the night though came from Zevran.....ah the lines with him in love are much better than Alistair's. But my favorite line was the 'bring on the crows' with his "I will stand by and mock them while you bash their heads." He looked and sounded so cheery at the thought. I had to think, "He's happy that there's someone around to protect HIM for a change."



But I am probably reading that wrong.



Of course. I reloaded any game where him and the GW don't go off to rebuild the GW's again. *shudder* I even did the "I think you should go" line there at the end.....*no no no, nightmares!*