35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Danijou]

I appreciate the politics, i'm just bad at it.

[Sarah1281]

soignee wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

soignee wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Okay, soignee, I read the chapter, liked it, and decided to review it. It's easier to keep track of review feedback than remembering to look on the Zev page 1232/1233 for it, right?

thanks sarah! woah long review *goes off to read*

I know you'd appreciate the dwarf politics of it... There's like 4 of us who do...

What? It was only 696 words! 

And I only know that as I had to type it out in Word because once you hit a certain length in the review window then it keeps flashing up to the top of your review so you can't see what you're writing.

And I adore the dwarven politics. Seriously, the game should have had more of them. And maybe more assassination attempts instead of fanatics trying to kill you on the street with everyone watching. And since Bhelen's greeting speech is so awesome and so is finding evidence Bhelen set you up, I think that's my new favorite way to play it.

jsut seems to be the dwarf noble way- assassins make sense instead of "fanatics." Much more practical then being jumped on randomly, but that's probably game mechanics.

Especially since the DN opening tells you that in Orzammar, "assassination and blackmail are commonplace but the appearance of honor is paramount." How, exactly, does having your followers jumping your opponents in the street look at all honorable? You'd think that would just bolster support for whichever side you're on since they aren't being caught playing the thug.

[Aroihkin]

Yeah, I always thought that was weird too. And don't you get jumped by the other guy's goons like three times? The first two weren't subtle enough, I guess. XD

Modifié par Aroihkin, 01 juin 2010 - 03:59 .

[Sarah1281]

Aroihkin wrote...

Yeah, I always thought that was weird too. And don't you get jumped by the other guy's goons like three times? The first two weren't subtle enough, I guess. XD

And then if you do sneak-support then you get jumped by the guy you were supporting's fanatics but I suppose in that case why not? Especially if you're now in the midst of an outright rebellion. Although I do wonder who Bhelen's supporters intended to put on the throne had they won since their leader was already dead.

[Aroihkin]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...

Yeah, I always thought that was weird too. And don't you get jumped by the other guy's goons like three times? The first two weren't subtle enough, I guess. XD

And then if you do sneak-support then you get jumped by the guy you were supporting's fanatics but I suppose in that case why not? Especially if you're now in the midst of an outright rebellion. Although I do wonder who Bhelen's supporters intended to put on the throne had they won since their leader was already dead.

Yeah, I'm starting to think lynch mobs are less about politics and more about a hobby in Orzammar. XD

[Sarah1281]

Aroihkin wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...

Yeah, I always thought that was weird too. And don't you get jumped by the other guy's goons like three times? The first two weren't subtle enough, I guess. XD

And then if you do sneak-support then you get jumped by the guy you were supporting's fanatics but I suppose in that case why not? Especially if you're now in the midst of an outright rebellion. Although I do wonder who Bhelen's supporters intended to put on the throne had they won since their leader was already dead.

Yeah, I'm starting to think lynch mobs are less about politics and more about a hobby in Orzammar. XD

Now isn't that a thought: they have clubs and go out randomly killing people in the streets. It would certainly explain why the DN isn't allowed into the commons and why no one seems surprised when the attacks start.

[Sarah1281]

My commission is finally here! And since we're talking about Orzammar anyway I'm gonig to post it!

[Sannox]

That's a lovely family portrait, Sarah .

[Sarah1281]

Sannox wrote...

That's a lovely family portrait, Sarah .

Thanks.  I just love the dynamics and it's so pretty...

[Aroihkin]

Oooh, very pretty! Payroo does lovely work~ ^^

[Sannox]

Aroihkin wrote...

((Fffffffffffffffffff-- so I went poking through Zev prompts and found one. I'll have to brush up on some research if I do it, though. It's a complicated kink. Still. I'm doomed.
Kmeme is clearly like pringles. Once you pop you can't stop?))

Oh good!  I'm glad you found one.  I'll look forward to it.  What sort of complicated kink?  Or will it be a surprise?  I just caught up with your Ser Bryant one just now, and loved it.   I enjoyed your OC and the dialogue was great!  

I do have a Zevran story started, that I'd forgotten about.   I have the background knowledge for it, but writing it is another matter.  I'm not a natural writer.  But then, I am going for prompts which haven't been filled for a while and deliberately picking the dodgier ones that might not get filled, so something is better than nothing, isn't it? 

I'm still not sure about putting warnings on, and when dub-con becomes non-con. (Incidentally, I haven't written or requested rape, as such.  But I will be getting into non-consensual territory, whether or not sex is involved.)  As I wasn't sure of the division I did some research, and a couple of sites seem to be saying that 'non-con' means 'rape'.  Is that right?  I'd assumed it meant anything with lack of consent, where consent would normally be expected (imprisonment, beatings outside sex play, etc.).   It's a minefield!   I just want to make sure I don't fill a prompt inappropriately, or have somebody inadvertently read something they'd rather not. 

Why don't you write prompts?  I was quite excited when my prompt got filled.

[SurrealSadi]

Soignee and Aro make me look like a child when it comes to writing.

Seriously.

I am in awe, you two!!

Edit: OOH!! New Rooster82 page!!

Modifié par SurrealSadi, 01 juin 2010 - 06:54 .

[Nonvita]

Wow, Sarah, that's gorgeous. It's actually one of my favorite Payroo pieces I've seen. Congrats!

[Sarah1281]

Nonvita wrote...

Wow, Sarah, that's gorgeous. It's actually one of my favorite Payroo pieces I've seen. Congrats!

Thanks, I'm glad you like it. I think it's my favorite, as well, but I might be biased...

[Sannox]

I have just persuaded Loghain to do the dark ritual for the first time. Interesting. Frustratingly, Morrigan said that my character should persuade him so that he wouldn't get to die a hero. Does anybody consider that my character might actually want to keep her whole team alive? Nobody gets left behind (except Alistair, but he chose to leave).
Loghain himself doesn't help. He takes a lot of persuading, much more than I remember for Alistair. I ended up feeling bad about it. These dratted characters and their guilt trips!

Modifié par Sannox, 01 juin 2010 - 08:56 .

[Avilia]

I was intending to ask him to do it and he talked me out of it!



He must have had a higher persuasion score than me ;-)

[Minaleth]

Corker wrote...

Charsen wrote...
this is really beautiful Mina. their faces seem very classical art in style. i tried to figure out what artist this reminds me of, but it's been a while since i took art history. i thought maybe ~raphael perhaps, or at least of that era's style. very nice. =)

Dürer?

*faints* that is like the greatest compliment for my drawing...<3<3<3
But you guys are right, I've learned to draw by making pencil copies of renaissance masters (my favs by Boticcelli, Durer, Raphael, DaVinci), maybe it was not in vain 

Edit: I forgot... nice reading Aro and soignee, very different but both very lovely (I am not huge fan of politics in fantasy, though I love Missa's story).
 

Modifié par Minaleth, 01 juin 2010 - 09:08 .

[Sannox]

Avilia wrote...

I was intending to ask him to do it and he talked me out of it!

He must have had a higher persuasion score than me ;-)

I didn't know he could talk you out of it when I started! 

For my characters the ritual has seemed the best option for everybody.   It's the only way to keep everyone alive.  My male characters can do it themselves, but my female characters have to persuade somebody else.   If they refuse they're not only courting their own death but the PC's.   My PCs have never considered sacrificing themselves (although I suppose I should do it some time). 

I probably messed things up a bit by being honest about the ritual and the child.  But he did give in in the end, thankfully.

[Sannox]

Minaleth wrote...
Edit: I forgot... nice reading Aro and soignee, very different but both very lovely (I am not huge fan of politics in fantasy, though I love Missa's story).
 

Seconded.  I'm not very good at reading longer stories online, which is partly why I've been enjoying the shorter ones on kmeme.  I get lost and forget what happened in earlier chapters.   But I do like to read the longer ones now and then.

Modifié par Sannox, 01 juin 2010 - 09:33 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Going back a few pages...

ejoslin wrote...

It's beyond inconsiderate. Alistair is very flawed.  But it adds a really interesting contrast to his relationship when comparing it to Zevran's.  Alistair never thinks about the future -- Zevran from the start is thinking about the future.  Alistair puts his duty first -- Zevran puts the warden first above everything, including his own happiness.  When they fall in love, Alsitair pulls away, Zevran requires a commitment.  Yet...  Since the words they use are so different, Alistair's relationship comes off as deep and Zevran's comes off as shallow to many people.

So I decided to do some save 'n' reload to experiment with Alistair's and Leliana's romances, since I had such a perfect occasion for it. One thing I have to say is: the game should have limited you to 1-2 conversations per character per camp trip. It's much too easy to just speed through most of a character's dialogue in one go, especially once you have high approval. At least, in ME, you have to advance the storyline/do some sidequests to trigger convos. But anyways. At least it makes experimenting easy.

Lel was much as I expected it: very mushy, takes some prodding to get her to explicitly admit what it is she wants. I guess she's sincere enough, but the "you're just like my previous girlfriend, and now we're soulmates!" part is kinda creepy. Seems like she's not too concerned about what the PC feels either: it's like she's brewing her own potion in her head, and you poke her about it at your own risk. Something tells me she'd be just as content keeping it all as a private fantasy, as long as you don't go off bonking someone else.

As for Al...after seeing the buildup, I'm really not getting the "deep" vibe. Yes, he becomes very emotional, and you feel horrible for turning him down because you know HE thinks it's sincere. But the further along it got, the more it felt like an infatuation blown out of all proportion to me. Harp about his gentlemanly manners all you like, he's still a male. A 20+ year-old virgin male. Any normally constituted male in that situation would probably be getting desperate. But due to his upbringing, he needs feelings before sex, so in a way, it seems like he's convinced himself he's in love. He says "I love you" in such a throwaway manner too, kind of like "oh yeah, we just had sex, so it *must* be love". He's also implying that he partly says it to hear the PC say it in return ("see? that wasn't so hard"): it's about him rather than her. Far be it from me to diminish the meaning of a romanced and rejected Al sacrificing himself for the PC at the end, but not only does that come much later (ie. his feelings would have time to mature), I also wonder how much of it is simply the thrill of being a hero and how much of it is genuine feeling...?

With Zev, you know that whatever he's going through has nothing to do with sex. He's had plenty of it before, possibly better and definitely more varied, and it's something of an art to him. So when the "I want to stay" vibe starts kicking in ("is there no one I might stay for?" IS very powerful, I must concur after hearing it), especially if you haven't bedded him yet, you know he's being completely earnest. To the extent that it frightens him: he keeps not only trying to back out himself, but to leave the PC as many outs as possible, yet, at the same time, he's constantly testing the terrain; it's like he can't help it. And even when he becomes irrevocably hooked, he doesn't actually outright demand anything, does he? I'm half-tempted to try the "not having you around to kiss you" breakup once I get to it, but I'm 99% certain I won't be able to take it, even out of curiosity.

[Aroihkin]

Sannox wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...

((Fffffffffffffffffff-- so I went poking through Zev prompts and found one. I'll have to brush up on some research if I do it, though. It's a complicated kink. Still. I'm doomed.
Kmeme is clearly like pringles. Once you pop you can't stop?))

Oh good!  I'm glad you found one.  I'll look forward to it.  What sort of complicated kink?  Or will it be a surprise?  I just caught up with your Ser Bryant one just now, and loved it.   I enjoyed your OC and the dialogue was great!  

I do have a Zevran story started, that I'd forgotten about.   I have the background knowledge for it, but writing it is another matter.  I'm not a natural writer.  But then, I am going for prompts which haven't been filled for a while and deliberately picking the dodgier ones that might not get filled, so something is better than nothing, isn't it? 

I'm still not sure about putting warnings on, and when dub-con becomes non-con. (Incidentally, I haven't written or requested rape, as such.  But I will be getting into non-consensual territory, whether or not sex is involved.)  As I wasn't sure of the division I did some research, and a couple of sites seem to be saying that 'non-con' means 'rape'.  Is that right?  I'd assumed it meant anything with lack of consent, where consent would normally be expected (imprisonment, beatings outside sex play, etc.).   It's a minefield!   I just want to make sure I don't fill a prompt inappropriately, or have somebody inadvertently read something they'd rather not. 

Why don't you write prompts?  I was quite excited when my prompt got filled.

Yeah, noncon is rape. Non-consent, as in they say "no" or to a similar degree of "do not want" on the character's side. Dubcon is dubious-consent, where it's not clear either way.

I mostly know this from back when I was a fanfic archivist. Which sounds more impressive than it is, probably.

And I've never put in a request because I wasn't sure I'd be writing any fills. XD And besides, most things I might want to see, I'm really just waiting for the chance to write myself. I may put in a het request or something later, since I prefer reading it over writing it anyway.

And hooray for liking the Ser Bryant story! Very glad to hear it. Q.Q It needs the love, Bryant's such a minor character to the game-plot. I was a bit put out to see he had an unfilled prompt while the broodmother somehow has like three filled ones, according to the tags. Probably crack (humor), but still.

Still.

Templars need mollesting too! (Which looks like it's becoming a theme for DA-Tannusen, according to my little list of prompts I might be filling. He never did know when to stop touching the hot stove...) And apparently so does the Chant of Light. Sacrelicious.

As for the prompt... I'll leave it semi-obscure for now. Just to avoid having to explain it to folks on here. XD Tannusen is a well-educated man, let's just say.

Minaleth wrote...
Edit: I forgot... nice reading Aro and soignee, very different but both very lovely (I am not huge fan of politics in fantasy, though I love Missa's story).

<3<3 Very glad to hear you liked it too~

And I should hope it was very different! One's a badass dwarf going Western all over dust town's face, and one's... um... people praying in the Chantry. Yeah. Let's call it that.

Praying.

[Lulia]

To be perfectly honest, as a rl women, i found all romances for females characters to be rather unsettling.



Alistair is... pathetic. He whines and moans like a child through the whole game and his sarcasm just rubs me the wrong way. He's not even funny. He was my main love interest during my first playthrough just because i hated Zevran more.



Zevran is just too sleazy. He just screams of all the things that guys think would impress a girl, when infact they just repulse. However! He was my main love interest on my second playthrough and i actually think he was the best. Changing a man, now that is something i can appreciate, and his confusion and gifts were so subtle and sincere.



Lel... well. I don't see any appeal in same sex relationships unless you are gay in real life. I did quite like her sugar exterior and dark history though.



I would have jumped in the sack with Duncan in a flash and i fancy Nathaniel too - such is my luck.

[Aroihkin]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Going back a few pages...

ejoslin wrote...

It's beyond inconsiderate. Alistair is very flawed.  But it adds a really interesting contrast to his relationship when comparing it to Zevran's.  Alistair never thinks about the future -- Zevran from the start is thinking about the future.  Alistair puts his duty first -- Zevran puts the warden first above everything, including his own happiness.  When they fall in love, Alsitair pulls away, Zevran requires a commitment.  Yet...  Since the words they use are so different, Alistair's relationship comes off as deep and Zevran's comes off as shallow to many people.

So I decided to do some save 'n' reload to experiment with Alistair's and Leliana's romances, since I had such a perfect occasion for it. One thing I have to say is: the game should have limited you to 1-2 conversations per character per camp trip. It's much too easy to just speed through most of a character's dialogue in one go, especially once you have high approval. At least, in ME, you have to advance the storyline/do some sidequests to trigger convos. But anyways. At least it makes experimenting easy.

Lel was much as I expected it: very mushy, takes some prodding to get her to explicitly admit what it is she wants. I guess she's sincere enough, but the "you're just like my previous girlfriend, and now we're soulmates!" part is kinda creepy. Seems like she's not too concerned about what the PC feels either: it's like she's brewing her own potion in her head, and you poke her about it at your own risk. Something tells me she'd be just as content keeping it all as a private fantasy, as long as you don't go off bonking someone else.

As for Al...after seeing the buildup, I'm really not getting the "deep" vibe. Yes, he becomes very emotional, and you feel horrible for turning him down because you know HE thinks it's sincere. But the further along it got, the more it felt like an infatuation blown out of all proportion to me. Harp about his gentlemanly manners all you like, he's still a male. A 20+ year-old virgin male. Any normally constituted male in that situation would probably be getting desperate. But due to his upbringing, he needs feelings before sex, so in a way, it seems like he's convinced himself he's in love. He says "I love you" in such a throwaway manner too, kind of like "oh yeah, we just had sex, so it *must* be love". He's also implying that he partly says it to hear the PC say it in return ("see? that wasn't so hard"): it's about him rather than her. Far be it from me to diminish the meaning of a romanced and rejected Al sacrificing himself for the PC at the end, but not only does that come much later (ie. his feelings would have time to mature), I also wonder how much of it is simply the thrill of being a hero and how much of it is genuine feeling...?

With Zev, you know that whatever he's going through has nothing to do with sex. He's had plenty of it before, possibly better and definitely more varied, and it's something of an art to him. So when the "I want to stay" vibe starts kicking in ("is there no one I might stay for?" IS very powerful, I must concur after hearing it), especially if you haven't bedded him yet, you know he's being completely earnest. To the extent that it frightens him: he keeps not only trying to back out himself, but to leave the PC as many outs as possible, yet, at the same time, he's constantly testing the terrain; it's like he can't help it. And even when he becomes irrevocably hooked, he doesn't actually outright demand anything, does he? I'm half-tempted to try the "not having you around to kiss you" breakup once I get to it, but I'm 99% certain I won't be able to take it, even out of curiosity.

I feel bad for having like nothing to contribute to this conversation. But I like your posts! *is lame*

[ejoslin]

The "it would be hard to kiss you if you leave," is not a break up. It's a bug. You can break up afterwards, but what happens if you choose that line is the "pre friendly pre love eligible" flag never gets set (a public kiss there is BAD). So even if you do break up afterwards, you miss the friendship ending as well. But even the breakups at "adore" are horrible.

An interesting thing, though. The conversation you bring up, when he asks about the future, you cannot have sex with him before having it. He needs to know, before it goes any further, if they're friends, if they're FWB, if the warden is unsure, or whether it is something more.

I agree with a lot that you say about the Alistair romance. It has that first love/infatuation feeling, and Alistair has his own separation issues (he has good reason, but they're definitely there). And YES, another person who believes that Zevran is falling in love from the start and as much as he tries, it never really is casual!

Ok, I think I need more coffee! So much squee, so early.

Edit: Rereading this, I used way too many words to say, "I agree with you, but beware of bugs!" Posting without caffeine does that to me :innocent:

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 juin 2010 - 10:51 .

[Sannox]

@ Nilfalasiel wrote...

You have some great insights.  You're really making me think about the characters.

I've had my share of proposals and confessions of love in the past: enough to know that the words don't mean much.   Maybe that was why I was drawn to Zevran who (I feel) shows it rather than says it.   The big difference I noticed between Zevran and Alistair is that for Alistair it's all about him, whereas with Zevran it's all about the warden.  Which ties in with what you are saying, I think.

I don't see Zevran as backing out, as such.  I think he's genuinely unaware of what he feels (until the Taliesin encounter), and unaware of what the PC feels.  There's a sort of wonder in his voice when he finally talks about it - he seems surprised to find himself in love (and still isn't sure that it's love).   I wrote a while back about what the warden tells him about their feelings, and it's very little indeed - mainly that he/she is glad to have him along.   There's no indication that the warden might be in love, until they talk about it, and even then the warden is cagey.   Zevran doesn't demand, but I think his reticence makes sense when you realise that he knows so little.   I think it also makes what he does say and do so much more powerful.   Even without knowing there's love involved, he's deeply committed.  

Whereas Alistair never does commit, does he?  I'm asking, because I don't know.  I haven't played the romance beyond the Landsmeet.   I think I might prefer Morrigan's romance to Alistair's.  

Modifié par Sannox, 01 juin 2010 - 10:52 .