35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Charsen]

totally unrelated but if anyone wants that young zevran head morph i made for their own toolset adventures (or you could i think turn it into a game head) then here it is

you'll need Bidelle's stuff, i posted a list of my chargen mods in the readme but the only one i definitely recall using was from Bidelle's for his young skin morph

Modifié par Charsen, 02 juin 2010 - 09:15 .

[Danijou]

klarabella wrote...

Korina1982 wrote...
I don't doubt that Alistair thinks he loves the Warden, as I thought I loved that person. You can think of sparing Loghain as the trigger point for Alistair; the point where he realizes that the Warden isn't who he thinks she is. Notice that if you don't spare Loghain and don't make Alistair king, he continues to follow her around like a lost puppy. I really like that Zevran will speak up if he doesn't agree with what you're doing. The relationship with Zevran seems more like a partnership between equals. With Alistair, I almost feel like I'm his mother.

Edit 2: I'm not trying to say this is the only way to interpret it, of course, but this is how I see it.  I respect that your interpretation might be different.

And can interpretations ever differ. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

If Zevran speaks up if he doesn't agree with you he's being awesome.
If Alistair speaks up if he doesn't agree with you he's a child.

If Zevran will stay with his lover in the end he's showing his deep and unabiding love.
If (Warden) Alistair will stay with his lover in the end he's following her around like a lost puppy.

Alistair does seem like a child. Not because he never disagrees with you in an awesome way (he just tends to do that in a reaffirming way, rather than a "stop now!" way) but because there comes such a huge hurdle that he'll have nothing to do with you again, and it ignores everything logical about the choice to entirely bank on emotion. He even ignores that he "should have seen it coming" if your Warden is prone to making like decisions.

Comparatively speaking, Zevran will disagree with you, but still kill the Dales. You'll take a nice smack to your approval, but he recovers. Isn't it just as emotional a thing to destroy his most adored culture? 

As for staying with his lover in the end, it's never Alistair's choice. You force him to realize you can stay in the palace, or you keep him away from the palace so you can keep him to yourself. You can try and force Zevran to stay, but if you do, he certainly doesn't like it. He chooses it.

[Danijou]

Ejo, I was like ten times wordier but I think we're riding the same train.

And for the record, it's not as though Alistair's childishness isn't a good thing sometimes, I was just presenting an argument for the sake of the point.

[AnniLau]

Korina1982 wrote...

AnniLau ,

Perhaps I said it badly, but it does seem that Alistair is more in love with the idea of being in love than actually loving the Warden. I was in his position years ago and what Nilfalasiel said was completely true for me. I eventually came around, realized what an idiot I was being, and saw the guy in question for the jerk he was (as opposed to this idea I had in my head).

I think lots of people have been in the
position you describe but, at the same time, just because it's a first
love doesn't mean it isn't a true love. Some people do still marry their childhood sweethearts and grow old together.

I don't doubt that Alistair thinks he loves the Warden, as I thought I loved that person. You can think of sparing Loghain as the trigger point for Alistair; the point where he realizes that the Warden isn't who he thinks she is.

I think of it as game mechanics...you're only allowed to have one or the other in your final party and that's how they make you decide. I also don't think it's in character for what I've seen of Alistair in the rest of the game. Sure, he might have stormed out of the Landsmeet in the heat of the moment, but I don't believe he would have left altogether. I just don't.

Notice that if you don't spare Loghain and don't make Alistair king, he continues to follow her around like a lost puppy.

This is different from romanced Zevran how? He stays with the Warden too.

I really like that Zevran will speak up if he doesn't agree with what you're doing.

So does Alistair, when he feels the need, although he often waits until you're alone so as (in my opinion) not to undermine your authority. Is it supposed to be a bad thing that he trusts your judgement the majority of the time?

The relationship with Zevran seems more like a partnership between equals. With Alistair, I almost feel like I'm his mother.

Yeah, I don't get that, especially the 'mother' part. Alistair needs some help in the confidence department and he can sometimes be immature, I don't deny that, but that's all reflective of his upbringing. He'll get over it. And no matter how equal a partnership is, at various points one person or the other will  take a leadership role...knowing when to lead and when to follow is not weakness, it's a strength.

Plus, again, game mechanics. If Alistair was super confident and raring to go, the PC wouldn't be able to lead effectively.




I like both romances, but Alistair's personality - sweet and smart a s s - is just more my cup of tea. And I don't think they made Zev very aesthetically pleasing either. 

Modifié par AnniLau, 02 juin 2010 - 09:26 .

[AnniLau]

Oh, and...

[Minaleth]

*looks for popcorn, might be handy soon*

quote]Charsen wrote...

[/quote] i just wanted to add that I absolutely LOVE this!

Modifié par Minaleth, 02 juin 2010 - 09:35 .

[Sannox]

@ Nilfalasiel, yes, you're making sense! I think he is in love with Rinna (why would he want the warden to think he was if he wasn't?), but it is different to what he feels for the warden, partly because of the circumstances and how he changes. With the warden he has already left a lot behind when they meet, and the love has a chance to burn slowly before he even realises it.



'Everything I thought I desired' is an interesting phrase. I've wondered why he used that. It could mean that she didn't turn out to be what he desired, or more likely, that he didn't really know what he desired.



Whether Alistair is just infatuated, I don't know. I think he is supposed to be in love, but maybe my threshold for what I'd call love is just a bit lower than some . In a way, Alistair has more to deal with than Zevran. Once Zevran sorts out his own issues, it's plain sailing. I've never played it, but I know one awful outcome with Alistair is being dumped at the Landsmeet. But I think his actions there can still be consistent with somebody in love. The battle of trying to have a dwarf/elf/mage as a wife is not one he is prepared to fight at the moment. Marriage seems to often be a political issue. Won't he still sometimes continue the relationship, if hardened? (I'm not very up on the Alistair romance). It does feel like an immature romance, very much so, but it could still be real love.

[Korina1982]

AnniLau wrote...

I like both romances, but Alistair's personality - sweet and smart a s s - is just more my cup of tea. And I don't think they made Zev very aesthetically pleasing either.  

I just wanted to say that I do like Alistair's romance, and I did an absolutely horrible job of trying to explain my reasoning in my earlier post.  The others are doing a much better job so I'll shut up now.  Sorry. 

[Cuddlezarro]

AnniLau wrote...

Oh, and...

OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 02 juin 2010 - 09:34 .

[Danijou]

Cruel as always :/

[ejoslin]

If Alistair isn't hardened and you make him king (like me my first playthrough because I trusted Eamon), he'll break up with the warden. If he's hardened, you can talk him into letting you be his mistress.



Then again, if Zevran adores a warden (or they've had sex) and you marry Alistair/Anora, you can talk him into staying as your lover. He understands that politics are not the same as love. He tries to give the warden an easy way out, and comforts them if they choose to break up (it's a heartbreaking breakup, actually, because he IS so sweet).



The thing is, Alistair does warn the warden (if he has told the warden, that is -- that's not necessarily true) that if he becomes king, he's not sure what that means for them. I think it would have been nice had he told the warden ahead of time that a marriage between him and an elf/dwarf/mage would not be acceptable. I also think he is completely NOT thinking of the future during that relationship. He's living for the moment, enjoying the feelings of first love.



Zevran, from before you can invite him to the tent, wants to know about the future. He's willing to accept several possibilities, but he DOES want to know.

[Charsen]

Danijou wrote...

Cruel as always :/

yeah CZ is really, really cruel
:wub:

here is another one with young zevran and Rinnia, sparring together.... lulz

Modifié par Charsen, 02 juin 2010 - 09:42 .

[Sresla]

AnniLau wrote...

So does Alistair, when he feels the need, although he often waits until you're alone so as (in my opinion) not to undermine your authority. Is it supposed to be a bad thing that he trusts your judgement the majority of the time?

I'm sure you mean - except those times when he'll give you his opinion and then do a complete about face and tear you to shreds back in camp for doing what he suggested.

If Zevran says "I think this is a good idea" he doesn't return to camp and say, "Horrible. Terrible. Worst idea ever. You must now converse with my hand - away with you."

[ejoslin]

 Charsen   I wish there was a ROFL smiley here.

Edit: AnniLou, is that tmp7704's mod?

Second edit: Danijou  I think we do agree on much here!

Gah, internet...  Why doesn't it behave!

Modifié par ejoslin, 02 juin 2010 - 09:51 .

[AnniLau]

Cuddlezarro wrote...
OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

His head is staying right where it is, thank you! They're going off to be Wardens together this time.

I might kill him on my DNF though...and then immediately reload and exile him instead. I feel this need to see all of the options first hand, even if they're horrible.

[Sannox]

Charsen wrote...

Danijou wrote...

Cruel as always :/

yeah CZ is really, really cruel
:wub:

here is another one with young zevran and Rinnia, sparring together.... lulz

 Hasn't he seen breasts before?  Or has she got something better than breasts?

[soignee]

Soignee's Thoughts on Alistair, take 4

*clears throat*

Disclaimer: I like him as a character. *gasp*

I will always find something in each playthrough that will endear him to me. Last time it was seeing how shellshocked he was at Flemeth's hut, as an example. As far as romancing him goes, it's very sweet. It's first love syndrome, and this is the 564th time I've used this analogy, but it reads as your first love at college/high school; the first relationship where it feels so do or die.

I do not think the romance is meant to work beyond Lands Meet, and that includes chancellor/mistress/couscous queen runthroughs. I have an Aeducan who took her (unhardened) Alistair off of the throne. I am writing a fic about it 7 years after the blight, and I am literally struggling giving Alistair a role other then, "warms my bed and/or offers witty one liners" for her. Politically he is gelded due to his heritage and you know Anora will keep an eye on the pair of them to make sure the Theirin blood doesn't get any funny ideas about reclaiming thrones.

Game mechanics wise I also struggle with Alistair Suddenly Grows Balls And Is King as it's too sudden, but I understand that comes down how the game is programed. Also it's what fanfic is for, and my Brosca is armpunching her salroka into hardening up.

[/end Thoughts On Alistair]

[AnniLau]

Sresla wrote...

I'm sure you mean - except those times when he'll give you his opinion and then do a complete about face and tear you to shreds back in camp for doing what he suggested.

You've never been conflicted about something and reacted inappropriately?

[Sannox]

@ Ejoslin, thanks! Why doesn't he let the warden be his mistress if he isn't hardened? Does he explain?

There comes a time in most relationships where it's polite to let the other person know if you can't get married or have children. It looks like he misses his cue. I wonder if he's not only just not thinking about the future, but hoping that he's not going to be king? That something will stop it? Right up to the Landsmeet he still seems to be looking to get out of it.

(The Landsmeet is annoying even as a friend. There seems to be no way to make him happy there. He doesn't want to be king, but won't be happy if you suggest supporting Anora, etc.)

[AnniLau]

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: AnniLou, is that tmp7704's mod?

Yes! It's lovely.

[ejoslin]

AnniLau wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: AnniLou, is that tmp7704's mod?

Yes! It's lovely.

*grin* I won't post unfair pictures of the vanilla sex scenes, ummm, like the expressions on the faces of the dwarf and elf especially when with Zevran and when with Alistair (let's just say, it would be VERY unfair -- in elf and dwarf he's cradling their faces and they're looking totally into it and, well, everyone knows the standard WTF face during the Alistair scene).

Edit: had to make the tent scene singular with Alistair.  I wonder if there's a statement being made there with Zevran having different tent scenes depending on race and gender, and Alistair's being the same no matter what.  It's not a thought I have the attention to explore too much right now!

Modifié par ejoslin, 02 juin 2010 - 09:58 .

[nos_astra]

Sannox wrote...
@ Ejoslin, thanks! Why doesn't he let the warden be his mistress if he isn't hardened? Does he explain?

Because he will have to marry eventually and he thinks it is unfair to both of them, the Warden as well as his future wife. He will break up now because he thinks he won't be able to do so later. He also will refuse to talk about it at camp afterwards, telling her that thinking about their love is too painful and too tempting.

Sannox wrote...
There comes a time in most relationships where it's polite to let the other person know if you can't get married or
have children. It looks like he misses his cue. I wonder if he's not only just not thinking about the future, but hoping that he's not going to be king? That something will stop it? Right up to the Landsmeet he still seems to be looking to get out of it.

I always get the no children talk before the Landsmeet. He was going to be king and it was natural to ask where the relationship was going given the option. If you tell him you aren't looking for a commitment he will not be pleased.

Honestly, none of my characters are delusional. I can't imagine they are stupid enough to need HIM to tell them that being king might become an issue, they are a part of this world. A player may not consider this but at least an elf/mage/dwarf should have an inkling that Ferelden will not approve of their relationship.

If you ask Arl Eamon after the Landsmeet if he's fine with the King going into battle he will answer that he can't stop Alistair anyway. And he will say that he suspects Alistair might be looking for a way out by falling in battle.

So yes, Alistair deperately hopes that he's not going to be king and won't adress the issue before it's too late unless you ask him.

Modifié par klarabella, 02 juin 2010 - 10:26 .

[sami jo]

Sresla wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

So does Alistair, when he feels the need, although he often waits until you're alone so as (in my opinion) not to undermine your authority. Is it supposed to be a bad thing that he trusts your judgement the majority of the time?

I'm sure you mean - except those times when he'll give you his opinion and then do a complete about face and tear you to shreds back in camp for doing what he suggested.

If Zevran says "I think this is a good idea" he doesn't return to camp and say, "Horrible. Terrible. Worst idea ever. You must now converse with my hand - away with you."

That, exactly.  I do like Alistair, I really do.  He reminds me of my son.  Which is pretty much the problem (aside from the EW! factor) He reminds me of a much younger man.  He is written as a younger man and one with much less real world experience.  It shows in his character.  He is sweet, but very, very young.  I can understand the appeal, but the way he feels fine with grilling the PC for making a decision he doesn't like (even when he suggested it) but absolutely refuses to take the lead is the response of a young, insecure man.  A romantic and basically honorable man, but still very young. 

So yes, I, personally, prefer Zevran--the slightly older and far more world-worn man who knows his own mind on most things.  I generally prefer the man who can and will put my Warden first.  Alistair puts his duty first.  It's not a bad thing, but being dumped for duty isn't terribly appealing.  Oh, and I find his look rather appealing, but to each their own.

[Nonvita]

soignee wrote...

I do not think the romance is meant to work beyond Lands Meet, and that includes chancellor/mistress/couscous queen runthroughs.

Quiet, you!

Princess disapproves -1000.


(Really need to get back to playing Princess, but I got distracted by Mass Effect and fan art... )

[soignee]

nuuuuuuuuuu not Princess disapproval! I shall take her to watch Sex and the City 2 to make up for it...