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What's the (Romantic) Appeal of Zevran?


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#31101
ejoslin

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Ok, here is why I like Zevran's romance better than Alistair's. Well, one reason, but it's striking.

With Zevran, despite him being technically her indenture, comes across as her equal. With Alistair, despite him being actually the more experienced member of the same order, he is her subordinate.

Both have their serious awkward moments.

I think it's kind of funny when Alistair falls in love, he wants sex (if they haven't). When Zevran falls in love, he can't bring himself to touch the warden until things are set between them.

Do I have a point? Naw, but I heard we were comparing the two romances here and that's a fun thing to do.

Edit: Page topper, hmmmm.  Let's see...

Meanest line in the game.  My warden just made Alistair king, and it dropped him to 100 hostile.  We get back to camp and he gives his hate speech.

Alistair: I guess I'll have to be satisfied with you actually helping to stop the Blight, won't I? If that's still your intention. I can't do it on my own.
Warden: So says the king of Ferelden.  Sad, really.

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Modifié par ejoslin, 02 juin 2010 - 10:27 .


#31102
nos_astra

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Sresla wrote...
I'm sure you mean - except those times when he'll give you his opinion and then do a complete about face and tear you to shreds back in camp for doing what he suggested. :huh:

Oh yes, he will do so. And if you talk to him he will admit that it is unfair to do so. And I totally love the character for this! This is how REAL people would react. But I'm not normal, I also love that he snaps and leaves at the Landsmeet.

#31103
Sarah1281

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Corker wrote...

soignee wrote...
It's a struggle writing two emotionally stunted characters as Missa would not sit down and go, "this is a story about my past that I'm not happy about" at all, or take pity and sympathy from anyone well.


soignee - Maybe in the context of Telling People Things?  Much more angry than introspective?  Because I am all about telling Wynne (for example; Alistair or Leiiana work too) how wrong, wrong, wrong they are about How Life Is.

I have an exchange with Wynne in my head:

Wynne: Love is ultimately selfish.
Brosca: Do you... do you think about what you're saying?  Honestly?  Selfish is a pimp trying to ride his noble hunter to a cushy palace life.  Love is the noble hunter working that job so her sister doesn't have to.  Selfish  is taking the money for lichen bread and spending it on lichen ale.  Love is going out to beg for more money so your family, including the drunk, doesn't starve.  Do you see the difference here?

Possibly a tad more rhetoric than a Brosca ought to muster, but *cough* it's an example.

A more sympathetic character might then follow up on that rant to learn the story that's suggested there.  Missa might not take it well, but she might also wish to demonstrate that she's So Strong and Tough that she can talk about it.  It doesn't really hurt.  So you want to know? Fine. Know.  Now go away.

Word. I really wander what made Wynne so convinced of that BS interpretation of love anyway. Was she convinced that basic human things like wanting to keep her son instead of letting the Chantry spirit him away to be raised by the Chantry and either dragged back to the Tower or be forced into Chantry brotherhood or becoming a Templar? If she sees the Chantry as a necessary evil then she probably would decide her hating their practices was selfish.

#31104
ejoslin

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klarabella wrote...

Sresla wrote...
I'm sure you mean - except those times when he'll give you his opinion and then do a complete about face and tear you to shreds back in camp for doing what he suggested. :huh:

Oh yes, he will do so. And if you talk to him he will admit that it is unfair to do so. And I totally love the character for this! This is how REAL people would react. But I'm not normal, I also love that he snaps and leaves at the Landsmeet.


Hmmm, my real problem with that is Alistair suggests killing Connor.  For whatever reason, this comes from him.  Most people DON'T suggest something of that gravity if they are not convinced that it's the right thing to do. I actually made that choice my first playthrough based on his word.  His ripping into my character was a complete shock.  He laid 100% of the blame on the warden.  Yeh, he backs down if you pass the persuade check, but it's completely unfair.

What that taught me? Don't take Alistair at his word.  

Yeh, Zevran does speak up.  At one point, in the vanilla game, you have no choice BUT to follow him.  I like that.  My wardens like sharing the responsibility with someone who means what they say. 

#31105
Tellervo

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Alistair is a cool dude, but he will forever be in the friend zone because he doesn't man up enough, and hardened Alistair is sort of too sudden to believe.

Gonna go hide some more.

Modifié par Tellervo, 02 juin 2010 - 10:36 .


#31106
Nonvita

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soignee wrote...

nuuuuuuuuuu not Princess disapproval! I shall take her to watch Sex and the City 2 to make up for it...


Princess' Sex and the City face:
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She will love you forever.

Edit: And really, another Alistair debate? I think we've already established many times over that most people in here do like him as a character, just not as a romance. So we agree with all the points made about his character and how the faults just add to believability, we simply don't actively pursue a romance with him.

Modifié par Nonvita, 02 juin 2010 - 10:39 .


#31107
Jayelet

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Well I'm not going to talk about Alistair ... I do not care the least.
Of course I'm going to say NO to your post.

Why I like Zevran?

For his strength, his personality, his sincerity and dedication. All that to my characters, is worth a thousand crowns and a thousand Alistair together.

Photo sexy
Posted Image%20%20Uploaded%20with%20ImageShack.us] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/url]


Edit: @Novita
Not me .. I like Alistair Neither romance nor as a person, not even as a king ... will never be a leader as such I see it. But I would not think going to say to post who have their fans, I respect the opinion of others and do not expect them to give me the reason.

Modifié par Jayelet, 02 juin 2010 - 10:45 .


#31108
Danijou

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I wish that my utter lack of background ability would stop ruining my pictures :/

After four attempts on this image I think that's all the gusto I have to give...

linky ... spoiler kinda, since this chapter of Artana's story isn't posted yet.

Modifié par Danijou, 02 juin 2010 - 10:58 .


#31109
Sarah1281

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Nonvita wrote...

soignee wrote...

I do not think the romance is meant to work beyond Lands Meet, and that includes chancellor/mistress/couscous queen runthroughs.


Quiet, you!

Princess disapproves -1000.
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(Really need to get back to playing Princess, but I got distracted by Mass Effect and fan art... :unsure:)

Maybe she just meant all the other Cousland Queens who aren't am amazing, beautiful, and perfect as Princess? Posted Image

#31110
ejoslin

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Danijou wrote...

I wish that my utter lack of background ability would stop ruining my pictures :/

After four attempts on this image I think that's all the gusto I have to give... 

linky ... spoiler kinda, since this chapter of Artana's story isn't posted yet.

Wow, you make fabulous use of shading.  That is beautiful.

Modifié par ejoslin, 02 juin 2010 - 10:59 .


#31111
Danijou

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I do better when I have a live model. .-. I always see errors in retrospect when I have to make anatomy up like that. X_x

But thank you! :happy: If only it felt finished!

Modifié par Danijou, 02 juin 2010 - 11:01 .


#31112
Korina1982

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I really do like Alistair as a character.  If my PC isn't romancing him (and I do have my character romance him sometimes) they are best buds.  I just think his romance can be viewed in several different ways, which is one of the many things I like so much about this game.  (Of course, it's not just his romance; there are tons of things with multiple valid interpretations in the game.)

Sorry if I stirred up trouble. :(  I'm going back to lurking now...

#31113
Danijou

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Tis no trouble XP

#31114
ejoslin

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Korina1982 wrote...

I really do like Alistair as a character.  If my PC isn't romancing him (and I do have my character romance him sometimes) they are best buds.  I just think his romance can be viewed in several different ways, which is one of the many things I like so much about this game.  (Of course, it's not just his romance; there are tons of things with multiple valid interpretations in the game.)

Sorry if I stirred up trouble. :(  I'm going back to lurking now...


Hah, you didn't stir up anything.  *grin* At least, nothing that doesn't pop up and become interesting conversation every few weeks!

Don't go back to lurking over this!  Both threads have our moments.  It's fun talking about the two romances, even if it's not always positive.  I don't think anyone gets truly offended over it.  And we have an excuse to say the obvious, how Zev is just so amazing!  :wub:

#31115
Korina1982

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That he is!

Know what else is amazing? ZDF!  I know I've posted on nexus thanking you before, but the work you've put in is greatly appreciated!  :wub:

Can't forget Gatekisses either.  I don't do dwarves but have a pic of my Dalish warrior:
Posted Image

#31116
ejoslin

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Gah, I'm glad you like it! Thank you!~ And yes, I agree, Gatekisses is the most amazing mod there is. Hmmmm, time for Charsen squee! <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

#31117
Aroihkin

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Are we being invaded by swoopers? Damnit people, come back on friday!

#31118
MorGothic

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Aroihkin wrote...

Are we being invaded by swoopers? Damnit people, come back on friday!


Come now Aro, be nice, it's not their fault Zev is more interesting then Alister. :devil:


I was bored so I drew:


Posted Image

Modifié par MorGothic, 03 juin 2010 - 12:52 .


#31119
Sarah1281

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Aroihkin wrote...

Are we being invaded by swoopers? Damnit people, come back on friday!

They do come by on Fridays. That's why they're scared of us. Posted Image

And do we have a theme this week? 

#31120
Arundor

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Minaleth wrote...

Tellervo wrote...

Nilfalasiel, you win at the Zevthread. I don't know what your prize is, but you win.

The prize is of course something featuring naked antivans... :innocent::o


I'm a bit late, but did someone call for naked Antivans?

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#31121
Danijou

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Danijou likes this. *thumbs up*

#31122
Aroihkin

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Arundor wrote...

Minaleth wrote...

Tellervo wrote...

Nilfalasiel, you win at the Zevthread. I don't know what your prize is, but you win.

The prize is of course something featuring naked antivans... :innocent::o


I'm a bit late, but did someone call for naked Antivans?

Posted Image


:wub:

*goes back to scribbling Zevporn for the kmeme*

Modifié par Aroihkin, 03 juin 2010 - 01:37 .


#31123
sami jo

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MorGothic wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...

Are we being invaded by swoopers? Damnit people, come back on friday!


Come now Aro, be nice, it's not their fault Zev is more interesting then Alister. :devil:


I was bored so I drew:


Posted Image


Awwwwww.  Get bored more often. :P

#31124
Guest_Elps_*

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ejoslin wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Sresla wrote...
I'm sure you mean - except those times when he'll give you his opinion and then do a complete about face and tear you to shreds back in camp for doing what he suggested. :huh:

Oh yes, he will do so. And if you talk to him he will admit that it is unfair to do so. And I totally love the character for this! This is how REAL people would react. But I'm not normal, I also love that he snaps and leaves at the Landsmeet.


Hmmm, my real problem with that is Alistair suggests killing Connor.  For whatever reason, this comes from him.  Most people DON'T suggest something of that gravity if they are not convinced that it's the right thing to do. I actually made that choice my first playthrough based on his word.  His ripping into my character was a complete shock.  He laid 100% of the blame on the warden.  Yeh, he backs down if you pass the persuade check, but it's completely unfair.

What that taught me? Don't take Alistair at his word.  


That blindsided me too. My feelings about Alistair as a character are complex (blame overthinking!). To me, he is essentially a GOOD boy, but not as focused on duty as some others believe him to be. If you compare his attitude to duty to Stens he comes up way short. I don't see him as particularly young - just because I don't compare how a very young man today might act compared to a Chantry-raised man of those times. I'm not convinced Alistair is any different in his attitudes to women than, say, Cullen.

I love the Alistair romance, but it doesn't lure me in like the Zevran romance. The reason for this is two-fold. Alistair is a romantic who is bitter about his past and the influence his birth has had on how he was treated. He carries a chip on his shoulder like a badge of honor. But he also believes that love must be involved in order for him to involve himself in a sexual relationship. He sees himself as chivalrous - so, of course, he believes he is in love.
But, having declared his love & gotten the attention of it into bed, the romance doesn't go anywhere. There is nothing more. 

I enjoy playing out the Alistair romance but by comparison to Zevran it doesn't feel intimate. Loving, in the romantic love, hearts and roses sense - yes. Intimate as in sharing who you are with the one you love - no way. 

Zevran exposes himself, warts and all, shortcomings, failings, cruelty, and asks nothing in return. His is a selfless kind of love. He notices if you look sad and tries to cheer you up. He offers himself and if you can accept him for who he is he becomes utterly loyal and devoted despite great risk to himself in staying in one place. That's not the kind of character that will appeal to everyone and those who want the sweet words, hearts and roses kind of romance won't get it with Zev. Luckily, the game gives us choices so we can RP however we like.

I'm off to dump Alistair now :whistle: My latest Warden considered it her duty to make sure he didn't die a virgin, and took him off for a threesome with Isabella because she was being kind to him but, what can I say? Zev warned her at the start that he grows on people :happy:

#31125
Avilia

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Elps wrote...

I love the Alistair romance, but it doesn't lure me in like the Zevran romance. The reason for this is two-fold. Alistair is a romantic who is bitter about his past and the influence his birth has had on how he was treated. He carries a chip on his shoulder like a badge of honor. But he also believes that love must be involved in order for him to involve himself in a sexual relationship. He sees himself as chivalrous - so, of course, he believes he is in love.
But, having declared his love & gotten the attention of it into bed, the romance doesn't go anywhere. There is nothing more. 

I enjoy playing out the Alistair romance but by comparison to Zevran it doesn't feel intimate. Loving, in the romantic love, hearts and roses sense - yes. Intimate as in sharing who you are with the one you love - no way. 

Zevran exposes himself, warts and all, shortcomings, failings, cruelty, and asks nothing in return. His is a selfless kind of love. He notices if you look sad and tries to cheer you up. He offers himself and if you can accept him for who he is he becomes utterly loyal and devoted despite great risk to himself in staying in one place. That's not the kind of character that will appeal to everyone and those who want the sweet words, hearts and roses kind of romance won't get it with Zev. Luckily, the game gives us choices so we can RP however we like.


Pardon the abbreviated quote...

This, very much this for me.  Alistair is really just learning about life and love, which is sweet and appealing in its own way.    Being first love though it always strikes me that he's carried away by it without thinking too much about the future or possible problems.

Zev's character arc is always more touching and once he's there, he'd follow you into hell if you needed him to.

I know its just a game (gasp!) but if I had to choose between them in real life - no contest - Zev every time ;-)