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[Sabriana]

AndreaDraco wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
Frankly, after finding out that she actually tries to entice the Warden mage back into the tower *in the middle of the Blight*, nothing will surprise me anymore about her. Make me angry, yes. Surprise me, no.

What?

I must have missed this detail!

I know,  Andrea, I was floored too when Reaverwind told me that. I thought she/he made a sarcastic joke at first. It's somewhere in the Abominable Wynne thread, not too far back.

[Creature 1]

I figured she meant you should go back after the Blight.

[Sabriana]

That's what one could hope for. I haven't had the pleasure yet, my mage didn't do her personal quest, she missed it somehow. My others are HN, so that wouldn't work.

I really want to see this one up-close. Ah well, I must make another mage, but I'll try for a smarter one. I'll just have to figure a way to role-play her so she'll see the warning signs before she gets in too deep with Alistair.

Maybe Zevran can do it. She'll be a mage who's never been anywhere, or seen anything. Therefore, she will be talking to the Antivan quite a lot. Yeh, that could work.

[ejoslin]

I also believe she was talking about after the blight. See, after the warden saves the world, if she survives, should go back to her prison and try to change things in there. I have no problem telling her off for that one (Wynne disapproves yet again).  Because, of course, Wynne is too old to do so.  And she couldn't be bothered when she was younger.

Heh, one other point about Wynne in the fade -- after you get to the sloth demon, her comment. She really believes she was instrumental in getting to the demon. She really gives your warden NO credit for pulling everyone out of the fire!

Edit: And never mind the fact that the Warden is still a Grey Warden as has those obligations.  Never mind the fact that the Warden may have a partner who is most definitely not a circle mage.  Never mind that the Warden has gone so far and beyond what anyone else could have done.  Never mind that the Warden actually has a choice. She should still be a prisoner of the circle, even though Wynne, every time she gets a chance, is not in that prison.

Modifié par ejoslin, 20 février 2010 - 04:34 .

[aaniadyen]

Romantic appeal of Zevran? Hmm...



Child-bearing hips?

[Sabriana]

Yeah, Ejoslin, I hear you. Even my silly mage would never give up Zevran. Especially not after what he did for her, after publicly losing face like that. I felt so bad for her, I think if not for Zevran, she'd have done the sacrifice, even though she hated how Ferelden treated the mages. Everywhere she went she had to hear bad things about mages, even from the mayor of Redcliffe.

Dagna was a bright light in that play. She was so very sweet, and she called mages the 'surface's great natural resource'.

As for Wynne in the fade, even my misguided mage (I see a pattern here. She obviously liked all the wrong people, silly thing) stopped short after the "we found each other in this place". What? My PC found all of you, and she had to go through some pretty awful stuff to do so.

[Reaverwind]

ejoslin wrote...

I also believe she was talking about after the blight. See, after the warden saves the world, if she survives, should go back to her prison and try to change things in there. I have no problem telling her off for that one (Wynne disapproves yet again).  Because, of course, Wynne is too old to do so.  And she couldn't be bothered when she was younger.

Heh, one other point about Wynne in the fade -- after you get to the sloth demon, her comment. She really believes she was instrumental in getting to the demon. She really gives your warden NO credit for pulling everyone out of the fire!

Edit: And never mind the fact that the Warden is still a Grey Warden as has those obligations.  Never mind the fact that the Warden may have a partner who is most definitely not a circle mage.  Never mind that the Warden has gone so far and beyond what anyone else could have done.  Never mind that the Warden actually has a choice. She should still be a prisoner of the circle, even though Wynne, every time she gets a chance, is not in that prison.

Actually, my take on the Warden is that he/she really does NOT have a choice. There's a reason recruits are warned there's no turning back, that you learn in other Origins that Wardens abdicate traditional inheritance rights, etc. The Joining not only changes the recruit into someone suited to handling darkspawn, it also pretty much guarantees life-long loyalty to the Grey Warden cause, differences with the Order notwithstanding. (I do consider having Alistair take the throne a bit of a plot-hole.) Returning to the Circle really isn't an option. Wynne tacitly acknowledges that the Warden is forever changed for any Origin BUT the mage origin.

[ejoslin]

Reaverwind wrote...

Actually, my take on the Warden is that he/she really does NOT have a choice. There's a reason recruits are warned there's no turning back, that you learn in other Origins that Wardens abdicate traditional inheritance rights, etc. The Joining not only changes the recruit into someone suited to handling darkspawn, it also pretty much guarantees life-long loyalty to the Grey Warden cause, differences with the Order notwithstanding. (I do consider having Alistair take the throne a bit of a plot-hole.) Returning to the Circle really isn't an option. Wynne tacitly acknowledges that the Warden is forever changed for any Origin BUT the mage origin.

The mage is the only one that Wynne can ask to go back to the circle.  The warden at the end seems to have some choice whether to devote her entire life to the GW, though -- but maybe not.

[Reaverwind]

ejoslin wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

Actually, my take on the Warden is that he/she really does NOT have a choice. There's a reason recruits are warned there's no turning back, that you learn in other Origins that Wardens abdicate traditional inheritance rights, etc. The Joining not only changes the recruit into someone suited to handling darkspawn, it also pretty much guarantees life-long loyalty to the Grey Warden cause, differences with the Order notwithstanding. (I do consider having Alistair take the throne a bit of a plot-hole.) Returning to the Circle really isn't an option. Wynne tacitly acknowledges that the Warden is forever changed for any Origin BUT the mage origin.

The mage is the only one that Wynne can ask to go back to the circle.  The warden at the end seems to have some choice whether to devote her entire life to the GW, though -- but maybe not.

I find the epilogue where your character survives a bit inconsistent and not so well-done as the US ending. Of course the mage is the only one Wynne can push iher dreams on, but my point was that Wynne conveniently forgets that the mage Warden doesn't stop being a Warden just because the Blight ends.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 20 février 2010 - 05:13 .

[ejoslin]

Reaverwind wrote...

I find the epilogue where your character survives a bit inconsistent and not so well-done as the US ending. Of course the mage is the only one Wynne can push iher dreams on, but my point was that Wynne conveniently forgets that the mage Warden doesn't stop being a Warden just because the Blight ends.

Oh, I get your point now.  In fact, if you get a buddy comment from Alistair after making him king, he tells you straight off that the Grey Wardens will have to make two exceptions, not one.  But yes, I agree; Wynne does conveniently forget that.  But she expects so much from other people, yet holds herself to an entirely different standard.

[Ramante]

So one question (surprisingly not about Wynne)...

I romanced Zevran (got him on 97 approval) and I talked to him he suddenly started asking about Lelianna... I had no idea I romanced her.

I tried to get through the conversation as good as possible (great poetry by the way, it was real fun because right before that conversation I had talked to the rhyming Grand Oak). I got a -25 from Lelianna... any ideas on how I can make the drop in approval not so high?



When do you get the earring thing? I noticed that after I dump Lelianna I get Zevran on 100 (adore) approval and I can ask him (again) about his last mission. Do you get it after that or do you need to be at love?

[Sabriana]

That's why my HNFs never had a problem chucking the whole 'noble' thing, especially after finding out that Fergus is still alive and kicking. Well, there are some issues, but it's too much to explain those for the purpose of this post.

Her (their) father tells her that the "Couslands have always done what's best for Ferelden". Now, my girls think that rebuilding the GWs is actually the 'best thing' for Ferelden. However, another way to do what's 'best for Ferelden' is the HNF marrying Alistair as a political marriage and be the administrator of the country. Unless the HNF is convinced that Alistair will turn out capable, tell Eamon to stfu and gtho, and curb Anora's power-lust, that is.

Both are actually valid thought processes.

[ejoslin]

Ramante wrote...

So one question (surprisingly not about Wynne)...
I romanced Zevran (got him on 97 approval) and I talked to him he suddenly started asking about Lelianna... I had no idea I romanced her.
I tried to get through the conversation as good as possible (great poetry by the way, it was real fun because right before that conversation I had talked to the rhyming Grand Oak). I got a -25 from Lelianna... any ideas on how I can make the drop in approval not so high?

When do you get the earring thing? I noticed that after I dump Lelianna I get Zevran on 100 (adore) approval and I can ask him (again) about his last mission. Do you get it after that or do you need to be at love?

He'll tell the warden about Rinna as soon as he hits 71 adore or 91 friendly (NOT warm, it has to be friendly, so after his personal quest if not romanced).  And yes, he needs to fall in love in order for him to offer the earring and also to declare his feelings.

Modifié par ejoslin, 20 février 2010 - 05:22 .

[Sabriana]

Ramante wrote...

So one question (surprisingly not about Wynne)...
I romanced Zevran (got him on 97 approval) and I talked to him he suddenly started asking about Lelianna... I had no idea I romanced her.
I tried to get through the conversation as good as possible (great poetry by the way, it was real fun because right before that conversation I had talked to the rhyming Grand Oak). I got a -25 from Lelianna... any ideas on how I can make the drop in approval not so high?

When do you get the earring thing? I noticed that after I dump Lelianna I get Zevran on 100 (adore) approval and I can ask him (again) about his last mission. Do you get it after that or do you need to be at love?

After Eamon calls the Landsmeet. Go to Denerim with him, and walk to any location within Denerim. Talisen will show up. After defeating him, Zevran offers up the earring for the first time.

[Creature 1]

Ramante wrote...
I got a -25 from Lelianna... any ideas on how I can make the drop in approval not so high?

Did you tell Zevran you'd break up with her, or did you go talk to her and dump her?  Usually they don't mind as much if you agree with party B to dump them.  I had to let Alistair talk me into dumping Lel once when she ninja-adored me and I don't recall the approval hit being that great.  

[ejoslin]

I've noticed if you don't agree straight off with Zevran (don't say, But I don't want you to step aside) the dumpee takes it better. With Alistair, who normally gives no approval hit for being dumped, gives -10 if you choose that line with Zevran but no approval hit if you choose something else that still leads to Alistair getting dumped.

Edit: Apparently whomever is getting dumped overhears the conversation so it probably hurts a lot more if the warden doesn't at least acknowledge that she has deeper feelings for the dumped.

Modifié par ejoslin, 20 février 2010 - 05:46 .

[Sabriana]

Oh, that's interesting. I never pick that one because I want to hear him saying that he's 'many things, but not a cheat'.

What? What's so funny? Obsessed? Who, me? Oh shaddap.



*sticks fingers in her ears*

[Mirthadrond]

I instantly liked Zev when I first met him. His candid honesty made me want to recruit him, even though I didn't totally trust him. I knew I'd made the right choice when Alister replied: "What? You want to bring the assassin? Alright, but if there was a sign we were desperate, it just knocked on the door."

Oddly enough, my first play-through, I didn't 'romance' anyone!!

My poor guy made the ultimate sacrifice a virgin.



How sad is that?



At any rate, I did grow quite fond of Zev during the course of the game and promised myself to make a female elf and romance the hell out of him.



I can understand now why this thread is so HUGE... Zev is a very interesting character.

[Sabriana]

Welcome, Mirthadrond . Pull up a chair and get ready for some Zevran goodness.

He truly is amazing, be it as a friend or a lover. Although my girls never managed to stay on the friend path, but that's a whole other story

[Raiynsong]

The thing about Wrynn and the Mage Tower is that she constantly ignores that for herself. She tells Irving she's leaving with the Warden. Then at the end she (usually?) ends up serving the crown rather than going back to the Tower. Where does she get off ? I can put up with her harping at my mage, because she thinks she's the surrogate mom who "raises" the Warden. But after whining so much about how she was mean and nasty to her elven recruit---when you finally meet up with him in the forest, she asks HIM to go back to the Tower as well. She just doesn't seem to learn from her mistakes, does she ? except when she finally acknolwedges that your romance is a good thing. If you put up with her long enough to hear that.



Thanks, all , for the "second earring" hints. THIS time I will try to be neutral enough to get that comment but it's hard for me not to just tell Zev my feelings immediately...as I'm sure many of you understand



So...This time, City Elf Rogue (again,===I love playing rogues).

[Cuddlezarro]

iv only gotten the "wynn serves the crown" once



every other playthrough where wynns survived she runs off to tervinter with shale

[ejoslin]

What Wynne doesn't do is return to the circle if you do her personal quest.

Raiynsong, I was so lucky my first play through -- I realize this now. Everything went perfectly as far as the Zevran romance went, down to hearing his friendship dialog as I was in a full romance with Alistair. When she got dumped after the landsmeet, I did the Zevran romance and was SO shocked at the depth. I did it between finishing up quests, trying to talk to Alistair, etc. I was so hurt by Alistair (and yes, I really WAS hurt) and I was not going to let that happen again, so my answers to Zevran reflected that.  And I got the very best ending -- engaged to Zevran, Alistair as archdemon food with that incredible kiss -- wow, talk about unexpected.

By the time the game was over, I was so happy with the way it all turned out -- the romance gets so special at the end of the game. I haven't been able to do a play through without romancing him now. And for some silly reason, it STILL feels special when he declares his feelings.

I didn't really get to know the character until the third play through I think, which is when I didn't play a rogue and used him instead. And I was completely blown away. Now, when I play a rogue, I have two-rogue parties, and I think I would even if he were just in the friendzone. He is by far my favorite character, just for his outspokenness and protectiveness.

Modifié par ejoslin, 20 février 2010 - 07:43 .

[Sabriana]

By the way, the avatar is my HN rogue. The one who thought that hardening her heart, and being cold and conniving was the best way to go. Of course, Zevran got to her just in time

She's not my favorite, Alissande is, my HNF warrior. But I won't put her into an avatar. She's mine. I only ever posted her in this thread. She is so very special to me. I thought about using her in a another play-through, but I just can't. She's happy where she is, with her dearly and deeply beloved Zevran. They are trying for a child. I hope they succeed. Alissande hopes for a girl, Zevran has no preference. He would love a child of his own, gender non-withstanding. He is very dedicated and enthusiastic in trying to fulfill Alissande's wish. Go figure.

Well, I've got to into my game now. It's time I... I mean my PC gets to have a kiss. She needs some tender loving care, and I... I mean she (anyone who just mentions Freud will get a nug stuffed up her/his bottom) will get it from her favorite rogue.

Edited: spelling. Bah. It's so overrated.

Modifié par Sabriana, 20 février 2010 - 08:31 .

[Cuddlezarro]

today on the life and times of Alexander and Zev... Zev(in his brand new godawfully expensive felons coat which used up all my money...good thing I can get over 100 gold easily in orzammar since thats my next quest)) and Alexander stargaze at camp though I get the impression Zevs gazing at Xander and not at the stars :3

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 20 février 2010 - 08:35 .

[Nonvita]

Sabriana wrote...

By the way, the avatar is my HN rogue. The one who thought that hardening her heart, and being cold and conniving was the best way to go. Of course, Zevran got to her just in time

She's not my favorite, Alissande is, my HNF warrior. But I won't put her into an avatar. She's mine. I only ever posted her in this thread. She is so very special to me. I thought about using her in a another play-through, but I just can't. She's happy where she is, with her dearly and deeply beloved Zevran. They are trying for a child. I hope they succeed. Alissande hopes for a girl, Zevran has no preference. He would love a child of his own, gender non-withstanding. He is very dedicated and enthusiastic in trying to fulfill Alissande's wish. Go figure.

Well, I've got to into my game now. It's time I... I mean my PC gets to have a kiss. She needs some tender loving care, and I... I mean she (anyone who just mentions Freud will get a nug stuffed up her/his bottom) will get it from her favorite rogue.

Edited: spelling. Bah. It's so overrated.

It's incredible how insanely attached to your characters this game makes you. I was afraid that the origins would make me feel detached, like the character was forced to be someone I didn't want, but actually they've done the reverse. My characters feel so much more fleshed out than those I played in previous games, and I simply adore them.

I *finally* uploaded my HNF (new avatar, yay!)- I usually have to play logged out because DA likes to say I don't have the Memory Band and Stone Prisoner installed even though I do... Anyway, she's Malyan, who's originally from a story I came up with (that happens to be eerily similar to the CE origin, and I mean ridiculously so... *sigh* silly Bioware stealing my stories >.<).

But my CE is totally with you on having a daughter with Zevran. I think their child would be ridiculously gorgeous, smart, and talented. And it would be so fitting to name her Adaia. Gah, is that too fangirly of me? I feel a litle too in love sometimes...



Oh, and darn you ejoslin I finally caved and created a dwarf. Her face is really cute, but those arms. Like everyone else I can't get over them! I only played through the first cutscene, though, and already I really like the origin. I think the lines (from memory)

Natia: Ew, I don't want to think about my sister doing that...
Rica: It's really not so bad. But I hope you'll only find that out with someone you love.

pretty much set the stage for an amazing love story to emerge.

Addai, if you're choosing between noble and commoner, definitely do commoner! I think it'll work perfectly with what you're going for!