35177 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

Yeh, why not. It's not like Awakening didn't get creative and change some things in itself :/

Gah, page topper.

Modifié par ejoslin, 06 juin 2010 - 03:13 .

[Sannox]

For some reason I'd thought that your story would finish at the end of Origins. I suppose you could skim over Awakening, or miss it out altogether.

[soignee]

Sannox wrote...

For some reason I'd thought that your story would finish at the end of Origins. I suppose you could skim over Awakening, or miss it out altogether.

going to miss it out, I think. 6 months is enough to be vague...

[ejoslin]

Awakening was not that consistent with lore. I may play it again now that the letters are modded back in, but right now, I'm still wandering through FO3. I bought ME1 but have not been able to get into it.

[soignee]

ejoslin wrote...

Awakening was not that consistent with lore. I may play it again now that the letters are modded back in, but right now, I'm still wandering through FO3. I bought ME1 but have not been able to get into it.

you're not the only one, I've tried to play the ME franchise. I've completed ME2, that's all I can tell you. Don't even know what happened in the plot much. Other then I killed the chicken legged female. And that Garrus is LOLZ.

[ejoslin]

soignee wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Awakening was not that consistent with lore. I may play it again now that the letters are modded back in, but right now, I'm still wandering through FO3. I bought ME1 but have not been able to get into it.

you're not the only one, I've tried to play the ME franchise. I've completed ME2, that's all I can tell you. Don't even know what happened in the plot much. Other then I killed the chicken legged female. And that Garrus is LOLZ.

*grin* I haven't even really given it a chance -- it just didn't grab me.

Ok, it's too damn quiet around here.  So here's some Zev-controversy.  I know it's been discussed before, but ok.  

When you're romancing both Zevran and Alistair, if you go to kiss Alistair, Zevran gets pissed and you lose approval and Alistair refuses to kiss you.

I understand why Alistair would refuse to kiss the warden after Zevran's reaction.  My question is WHY does Zevran react that way?  VO notes are useless in this case.  The way the voice is supposed to sound directly contradicts the words and the facial expression and the approval loss.

One thing you can be sure off -- his reaction is based on the fact that he is also romancing the warden, as if he's NOT, he just teases them good-naturedly and there's no approval loss (VO note has the voice sounding the same as the other -- both say mischievious).

To me, he sounds jealous of Alistair when the warden goes to kiss him, and he DOES sound like he makes at least a small claim on her.  I don't think he's jealous of the physical act of kissing -- I think he's jealous of the affection, if that makes sense.

Ok, if this doesn't bring the thread alive, nothing will!

Modifié par ejoslin, 06 juin 2010 - 03:51 .

[MorGothic]

soignee wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

Quick question, how long do you figure Awakening takes?

About half a year.

urgh, I really don't want to do Awakenings in the DDW series, idk what to do. ffffffffffffff-

I don't know Missa talking to Sigrun () could be fun.

Sigrun: What's an Antivian Milk Sandwich..Oh...I'll just put this back...
Missa: I've had one of those...
Sigrun: ........

Also the whole Oghren situation would be...interesting...

[Creature 1]

ejoslin wrote...
To me, he sounds jealous of Alistair when the warden goes to kiss him, and he DOES sound like he makes at least a small claim on her.  I don't think he's jealous of the physical act of kissing -- I think he's jealous of the affection, if that makes sense.

Yes, Alistair's not really a casual romance guy.  He shot down my f!Amell when she tried to get him into bed because he thought it was too early in the relationship.  I don't think Zevran minds recreational sex with other people (probably preferably with him there too!), but if you're going after Alistair you practically have to court him, meaning by the time you get him into bed it's not at all casual. 

[Sannox]

The public kissing is odd. I've got DT which changes it, so I can't remember who you can do it with and who not. But I'm sure I wasn't able to kiss Zevran outside of camp at all in the original game. I don't know if that's a bug, or deliberate. If he refuses to kiss outside camp, it makes sense that he disapproves of anyone else doing it .... except that when I've tried when I've just picked him up, he doesn't mind (although he does over-react a bit. And it's still strange that he won't do it later on).

I was really surprised to get his reaction the first time I played, and if I remember correctly it was very early on - the romance must have been started, but nothing had happened.

It's too early for jealousy, at that point, and it doesn't really make sense, considering he's happy with kissing and sex in the camp, then and later, AND that that he is not yet involved with the warden. In fact, he never admits jealousy even later, whether you think he feels it or not. He's hardly going to make a statement of jealousy at that point, if he won't make it later.

If it's more that he's envious, it doesn't make sense either as he won't kiss in public (unless we're actually meant to be playing it as if our wardens will kiss Alistair in public, but not Zevran. That would be an interesting can of worms).

If it's just a question of propriety, it doesn't make sense that he'll tolerate it at an earlier point.

However, he does make that point about not being a cheat - he maybe does have some strong ideas about morality in relationships, and maybe that does extend to public displays - you don't do them if you are even flirting with more than one person? It seems a bit extreme, but about the only explanation that fits.

I'm not keen on the handling of the public kissing. I feel I need more explanation. I also need to download the DT mod which stops companion comments because they're driving me nuts.

Modifié par Sannox, 06 juin 2010 - 04:32 .

[jenovan]

Creature 1 wrote...

Quick question, how long do you figure Awakening takes?

For some reason, I also thought about 6 months. Not sure why, now that I'm thinking it over, unless something about the 6-month gap between Origins and Awakenings just made me fill that in myself...

@ej: is that page-topper a new pic? I don't remember seeing it before, but it's gorgeous!

Creature 1 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

To me, he sounds jealous of Alistair when the warden goes to kiss him, and he DOES sound like he makes at least a small claim on her.  I don't think he's jealous of the physical act of kissing -- I think he's jealous of the affection, if that makes sense.

Yes, Alistair's not really a casual romance guy.  He shot down my f!Amell when she tried to get him into bed because he thought it was too early in the relationship.  I don't think Zevran minds recreational sex with other people (probably preferably with him there too!), but if you're going after Alistair you practically have to court him, meaning by the time you get him into bed it's not at all casual. 

Ooh, that's a good point...
I haven't got a girl into that kind of relationship yet -- what does Zevran say there?  And what does Alistair say if you kiss Zevran?  (although I suppose since kissing Zev is modded in, there may not be an official "jealousy" line from Alistair...)

Now I'm curious about kisses and jealousy... *grins*

Modifié par jenovan, 06 juin 2010 - 04:34 .

[Sannox]

Yes, I don't think you can kiss Zevran without a mod in public, Jenovan, so I don't know Alistair's reaction. I haven't tried it modded. I could go back and experiment, although I suppose it wouldn't be accurate if I'm using DT.

Modifié par Sannox, 06 juin 2010 - 04:36 .

[ejoslin]

No, in the vanilla game you can only kills Alistair and Morrigan, no Zevran and Leliana kisses in public. I'm not discussing DT because, well, that is added with recycled dialog and such.



Zevran is definitely ticked off if you kiss Alistair (and I would imagine Morrigan) in front of him if he's romanced. He looks and sounds really pissy, and Alistair refuses to kiss the warden.



See, this is something that I think supports Zevran is falling in love from the beginning. It was put in very deliberately. I think Leliana's jealousy is very expected (she gets jealous of all kisses I believe). Zevran's, not so much so. He claims not to be jealous, but he certainly acts jealous there.



However, he doesn't act jealous when the warden has sex with other people, though in the case of Isabela, he disapproves if the warden doesn't let him join. However, Isabela has absolutely no bearing on Zevran's romance -- his dialog and approval gains/losses are exactly the same no matter what his approval rating is. But he's fine with Cammen as well, and approves (again, this is not related to his romance at all -- but since Alistair doesn't disapprove there of a warden he's romancing, that whole thing may be an oversight).



ANYWAY, PDA is a bit more than just physical. It's affectionate, and I think that is what his issue is. Then again, I don't think he sounds very convincing when he says he's not jealous and could happily step aside either, so I have a bit of a bias there.

[frostajulie]

I always took it to mean no matter what a man says when his penis is involved he has staked his claim, at least subconsciously and Zev is reacting from a purely penile response. While he logically and verbally states he is not jealous his penis and tone make him act differently.

[Sannox]

The kissing in the camp is affectionate too, and the sex presumably is. Although the game is a bit vague about how much exactly, the characters see and know (although it seems to be that they can see what happens outside the tent, and hear what happens in it). It seems to be the fact that it's public, rather than the act itself.

Either Zevran's not jealous later, or he is and pretending not to be (or maybe doesn't know it). Any way you look at it, I don't see him openly expressing jealousy at that point. Either he doesn't feel it, or he does but is trying to hide it, or he does but doesn't know it (in which case bringing the subject would make him think ...!). It's out of character for him to express jealousy.



It's not out of character for him to express an opinion on relationship ethics - so that's possible. But it still seems too big a reaction.



He could be falling in love from the beginning. I tend to take it that it's from the first tent time, as that's the time he pinpoints. But even if he's in love at that point, his reaction doesn't make sense, considering he's happy with kissing and sex in camp at whatever stage he's at.



I'd love to know what was intended - if maybe something here was a mistake, or meant to eventually bring up some other dialogue that explained it or something.

[nos_astra]

jenovan wrote...
Ooh, that's a good point...
I haven't got a girl into that kind of relationship yet -- what does Zevran say there?  And what does Alistair say if you kiss Zevran?  (although I suppose since kissing Zev is modded in, there may not be an official "jealousy" line from Alistair...)

Now I'm curious about kisses and jealousy... *grins*

www.youtube.com/watch

[Herr Uhl]

frostajulie wrote...

I always took it to mean no matter what a man says when his penis is involved he has staked his claim, at least subconsciously and Zev is reacting from a purely penile response. While he logically and verbally states he is not jealous his penis and tone make him act differently.

Penises are evil *shakes fist*.

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

The kissing in the camp is affectionate too, and the sex presumably is. Although the game is a bit vague about how much exactly, the characters see and know (although it seems to be that they can see what happens outside the tent, and hear what happens in it). It seems to be the fact that it's public, rather than the act itself.
Either Zevran's not jealous later, or he is and pretending not to be (or maybe doesn't know it). Any way you look at it, I don't see him openly expressing jealousy at that point. Either he doesn't feel it, or he does but is trying to hide it, or he does but doesn't know it (in which case bringing the subject would make him think ...!). It's out of character for him to express jealousy.

It's not out of character for him to express an opinion on relationship ethics - so that's possible. But it still seems too big a reaction.

He could be falling in love from the beginning. I tend to take it that it's from the first tent time, as that's the time he pinpoints. But even if he's in love at that point, his reaction doesn't make sense, considering he's happy with kissing and sex in camp at whatever stage he's at.

I'd love to know what was intended - if maybe something here was a mistake, or meant to eventually bring up some other dialogue that explained it or something.

But if it were because it was public, then his relationship wouldn't matter.  It only bothers him if he is romancing the warden as well.  It is not about it being public and him thinking that's bad -- it's about the warden kissing Alistair when she's romancing Zevran as well, in front of him, in public.  If he's not romanced, he just says he's seen it before and he won't gawk.

The tent time...  Hmmm, possibly, but he actually has nicer dialog if you never take him to the tent.  The jealousy talk still happens (it calls what they're doing a flirtation) and is not so dismissive about his own feelings.  Aside from nicer dialogs in a few cases, the romance goes the same whether you go to the tent or no.

I think frostajulie is right.  I also think he's never been in the type of relationship before where he WOULD stake a claim (which I know is not what she said, but I'm adding to that thought because I LIKE it!).

[Creature 1]

ejoslin wrote...
I also think he's never been in the type of relationship before where he WOULD stake a claim (which I know is not what she said, but I'm adding to that thought because I LIKE it!).

I agree with this. 

[frostajulie]

Herr Uhl wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

I always took it to mean no matter what a man says when his penis is involved he has staked his claim, at least subconsciously and Zev is reacting from a purely penile response. While he logically and verbally states he is not jealous his penis and tone make him act differently.

Penises are evil *shakes fist*.

Now now lets not jump to conclusions we all know we love the Penis.  Lets be rational here sometimes the penis wants what the penis wants and heart and head be damned.

To clarify  I love penises.

Edit to add afterthought

I say this from the collective experience of my own and observing 2 brothers both of whom have penises in their various relationships.  The friends with benefits thing rarely works out based on my observations because once the penis is involved certain subconscious claims have been made and can lead to  chest thumping and possessive growling.

Modifié par frostajulie, 06 juin 2010 - 05:35 .

[soignee]

seriously? I've doen FWB with both sexes and no posession or feelings there of have come up.

[Nonvita]

Creature 1 wrote...

Yes, Alistair's not really a casual romance guy.  He shot down my f!Amell when she tried to get him into bed because he thought it was too early in the relationship.  I don't think Zevran minds recreational sex with other people (probably preferably with him there too!), but if you're going after Alistair you practically have to court him, meaning by the time you get him into bed it's not at all casual. 

Agreed with this. If Zevran wanted casual sex, he could go to just about anyone for it. He's only reacting once he's already in a relationship, at which point (whether he likes it or not) he wants more from the relationship. I think it's also something he doesn't really understand. In the vanilla game he won't kiss in public, which makes it seem like he's used to much more private settings. I think he's a little confused and hurt by the meaning of the public display of affection and the depth of emotion involved in it. And I think he's a little sad there's no option to kiss him in public.

ejoslin wrote...

No, in the vanilla game you can only kills Alistair and Morrigan,

I think this was a typo, but I found it funny.

Herr Uhl wrote...

Penises are evil *shakes fist*.

Eh... well we're all already going to hell, so what's it matter?


Edit: @Soignee--I actually think Awakening takes less than 6 months, seeing as the entire original campaign took only a year or a little over, and with Awakening they always talked about the sense of urgency and how little time there was. I think you could easily get away with making it only a 3 month gap of time.

Modifié par Nonvita, 06 juin 2010 - 05:44 .

[Sannox]

What I mean about it being public, is that that's the difference between the kisses in camp (which he doesn't object to) and the kisses outside camp. If it's not about it being public, what can it be about? Not the act of kissing, or the sex, or even the relationship - he's fine with all of those, up to a point.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I probably am, because it's a long time since I played it), but this is before anything at all happens, apart from some conversation. He hasn't been to the tent, or kissed, or asked about the future yet.  There isn't a 'relationship'.   Staking any sort of claim at that point would be rather creepy and stalkerish. Even if he felt like doing it, I'm sure he wouldn't make those feelings public - surely?

Modifié par Sannox, 06 juin 2010 - 05:59 .

[Sannox]

soignee wrote...

seriously? I've doen FWB with both sexes and no posession or feelings there of have come up.

Me too - well, only with one sex.  My relationship with my boyfriend started out that way, years ago.   In fact, it was hardly even FWB, more just the B.  

Modifié par Sannox, 06 juin 2010 - 05:52 .

[Creature 1]

Nonvita wrote...
Edit: @Soignee--I actually think Awakening takes less than 6 months, seeing as the entire original campaign took only a year or a little over, and with Awakening they always talked about the sense of urgency and how little time there was. I think you could easily get away with making it only a 3 month gap of time.

I'm going with 6 months in my sequel, gives Blair enough time to get completely fed up.  *rubs hands and cackles evilly* 

[Herr Uhl]

frostajulie wrote...

I say this from the collective experience of my own and observing 2 brothers both of whom have penises in their various relationships.  The friends with benefits thing rarely works out based on my observations because once the penis is involved certain subconscious claims have been made and can lead to  chest thumping and possessive growling.

I can add that I've observed the same in both sexes. Well, females tend to thump their breasts less. I think that the penis factor is secondary to basic disposition.