35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Sannox]

Nonvita wrote...

Don't worry boys, Princess loves you all! <3 (though not as much as Alistair)

DISNEY PRINCESS PRINCESS (stage 1):

Pretty princess!  I'm glad you're doing it in stages, and that you've put her in her everyday clothes instead of that unflattering armour.  

Are her legs a little bit short, or she is squatting under that gown?

Modifié par Sannox, 07 juin 2010 - 07:29 .

[Aroihkin]

Yeah, but, just commenting at all =/= jealousy. Going "Oh, yeah, don't mind me, I'm only standing right here..." to remind the Warden he's there if he's romanced is different than a non-romanced Zevran kinda leering and being his friendly-perv "I like to watch~" self.

Edit: Reminds me of a RP situation I was in once, actually. The Pern version of Tannusen was involved with a guy who essentially got married (weyrmated) to a chick after Tannu had already been sleeping with him, with the understanding that the guy was going to be seeing other men still, even if specifics weren't initially revealed.

Tannu often hung out with both characters, being friendly aquaintances with the chick even though she didn't know he was one of those men. (He'd known her before she suddenly hooked up with the guy, and got along. Why not continue to get along?)

Anyway, T had no problem with the guy and the gal being shacked up and doing things with one another, but he did get a little annoyed when the guy did PDA with the girl right in front of him. Partially because he was the "secret" and couldn't do anything of the kind himself, and partially because... dude, that's just kind of rude. XD

He probably wouldn't have cared so much if all three of them had been involved, but I was pretty startled when the character basically informed me that this was Not Cool with him and went off to sulk. Hanging out with both of them at the same time became an exersize in emotional self-abuse for him. Not healthy, no, but he rarely is.

So I sort of wonder if it's like that for Zevran. Not to mention he's already confused about whatever he's feeling that he's "not supposd to be"... he's not "the secret", but if he thinks it's rude to suck face with someone in front of the other boy/girlfriend, not only would he not do it*, but I could see him being aggravated if the other two started to right in front of  him. XD

( * though even for IC purposes, I have no problem with and use that mod, since I never have two romances anyway. Granted, I mostly use it to make the game update, but it beats poking someone for dialogue and then going "nevermind" every time. )

Modifié par Aroihkin, 07 juin 2010 - 07:57 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Sannox wrote...

It's not as simple as him being more concerned about the others.  He gives an ethical reason - he doesn't want to be a cheat.  

One of the conversation points during my earlier playthroughs that made me sit up and examine his character a bit more closely, actually. I loved it.

[Nonvita]

Sannox wrote...

Pretty princess!  I'm glad you're doing it in stages, and that you've put her in her everyday clothes instead of that unflattering armour.  

Are her legs a little bit short, or she is squatting under that gown?

Lol she's sitting. It'll be more obvious once more things are worked in. Right now her dress is getting more and more ridiculous ornate, so I'll post updates once it's a little further along.

And Disney should really take notes.


Now then, sorry for interrupting the serious talk! Goodness knows this thread can always use some undisturbed thoughtful discussion!

[Nilfalasiel]

@ Nonvita: Princess: smiting unwary eyes all over the world with the power of Pink! Watch her flounce, and tremble!

You should probably add glitter along with the bows, just to make the Pink Pwnage absolute.

Aroihkin wrote...

Re: kissing jealousy talk, there's a biiiig difference between someone doing that in camp than doing it while stomping around in the woods with three other people, two of which you're in a relationship with. May even be part of why Zev and Leliana don't have the option without mods... those two are wiser to these things than Alistair, and seem to care a little more about certain "etiquette" than Morrigan does. It's interesting that Morrigan still backs off when it's her, though. XD Like "Oh, yeah, that is sort of in bad taste, isn't it? Oops."

Edit: The way I look at it, Zevran is just sort of... clearing his throat. Like "hey guys? I'm standing right here, you know." which would be a little (-3) exasperating to have to point out to your love/hump interest.

Some very good points there. I guess the fact that Zev and Lel both used seduction as a tool of trade gave them a slightly more, uh...rule-regulated view of it?

Concerning ninjamances, I attempted to navigate Lel's second romance trigger convo without actually triggering anything, but she apparently assumes things even if you don't tell her you wish you could be special to her like Marjolaine was. And I probably forgot to reload after realizing that, because when I clicked on her in Orzammar, expecting to hear the nug convo, I got the jealousy talk. Was a very typical "omg, how could you? you said all those things to me!" one. Which definitely puts Zev's jealousy talk in perspective: it *is* surprising how he insists on propriety and the other person's feelings rather than his own, isn't it? (I assume Alistair and Morrigan also have the Leliana kind of jealousy talk, yes?)

On the other hand, when you think about it, it's also completely in character: if he's doing his best to present the relationship as casual, it makes sense that he'd try to come up with a reason that doesn't involve his feelings. At least, not directly. Where Lel shows her feelings first and expects the Warden to respond, Zev makes sure the Warden responds first and then shows his feelings, or at least hints at them. He's putting the Warden's interests first, once again, but he's definitely happy if you choose him. What does he say if you reject him? I admit I didn't have the guts to experiment (because he pulled a puppy face when saying "then only one path lies ahead of us").

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 07 juin 2010 - 09:15 .

[Sannox]

@ Nonvita, you're not interrupting! Anyway, one thing I love about this thread is when there is serious conversation and humour all mixed up. I will stop being mean about Princess's legs. Of course she's sitting!

[Sannox]

@ Shadow, that conversation came as a bit of a surprise the first time, and I do love it.  I love the way his tone changes when he gets on to the part about not being a cheat, as if he's been tiptoeing around the issue and this is the crux of it.   He does sound sincere, and perhaps not pleased that the warden would ask that of him. 

@ Nilfasiel Whether he actually is trying to present the relationship as casual, I don't know.   About the same time you get the Rinna conversation, in which he makes it clear that his feelings aren't casual.    The sex is fun (he thinks), but the relationship itself is not casual.

About what he actually presents to the warden, what he confesses about what he feels:

At the end, he explains that he didn't know what he felt.  He was confused.  Even after everything, he still doesn't know if it's love.   So even if he felt love back then, he didn't know it.

He also (depending on how you play it), has no idea what the warden feels - the warden acts much the same whether in love with him or just appreciating his company.  (The 'choice' conversation triggers because of the NPCs feelings, not the warden's, obviously.  The warden could be in love with both, or largely indifferent to both - it doesn't matter).    I wrote about the warden actually tells Zevran about their feelings here.   Briefly, the most you can confess through the conversations with him are variations of 'I'm glad to have you along'.  

I think that in the 'choices' conversation he knows that he doesn't want to lose the relationship with the warden, and he does play that down, again for ethical reasons (he believes he shouldn't make claims).  But I don't think he understands what his feelings mean.  

Modifié par Sannox, 07 juin 2010 - 10:25 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Sannox wrote...

@ Nilfasiel Whether he actually is trying to present the relationship as casual, I don't know. About the same time you get the Rinna conversation, in which he makes it clear that his feelings aren't casual. The sex is fun (he thinks), but the relationship itself is not casual.

Well, early on, he tries to keep the sex and the feelings separate, and it's the former he's trying to present as casual in the choice convo. Considering that he is actually happy that you pick him and considering how completely NOT casual it becomes post-Taliesin, you can see it as just another step in his struggle. The Rinna convo he'll have with a friend as well, right? Meaning it's not quite in the same category. It has a stronger impact if you're romancing him, of course, but it's only dependent on trust, not on romantic feelings.

He also (depending on how you play it), has no idea what the warden feels - the warden acts much the same whether in love with him or just appreciating his company. (The 'choice' conversation triggers because of the NPCs feelings, not the warden's, obviously. The warden could be in love with both, or largely indifferent to both - it doesn't matter). I wrote about the warden actually tells Zevran about their feelings here. Briefly, the most you can confess through the conversations with him are variations of 'I'm glad to have you along'.

Yeah, I remember that. I see that as self-fuelling mutual wariness. Zev's reluctant to put a name on his feelings or to be vocal about them, because he's scared, confused and because he doesn't know how the Warden might respond (he DID try to kill her/him, after all). The Warden sees the hesitation and reacts to it in kind: she/he could be residually wary of his motives, wary of what he does or doesn't feel, and eventually, wary to not spook him by using the "l" word, since he takes such exception to it. It's like a cleverly orchestrated avoidance game: "oh, he didn't say anything about feelings, I better not say anything either"; ****** for tat, quid pro quo (must...not...say..."Clarice").  It's radically different from how a female Warden behaves with both Alistair and Leliana, who are both certain of their feelings (or well, in Alistair's case, he desperately wants to be certain). So I think at least part of it must be directly dependent on how Zev himself behaves.

At the end, he explains that he didn't know what he felt.  He was confused.  Even after everything, he still doesn't know if it's love. So even if he felt love back then, he didn't know it.

I think that in the 'choices' conversation he knows that he doesn't want to lose the relationship with the warden, and he does play that down, again for ethical reasons (he believes he shouldn't make claims).  But I don't think he understands what his feelings mean.  

He might not understand what they mean at the point where they have the choice convo, but that doesn't mean he doesn't already have them. All the more reason for him to be extra careful about mentioning them, since he doesn't know what to do with them.

Post-Taliesin though, I'm pretty sure he's starting to understand what it is, since it reaches a point where he'll leave if the Warden doesn't reciprocate. It's just that he's reluctant to capture the feeling by putting a very negatively charged word on it: the last time he heard someone use the word "love", they ended up dead at his feet and him spitting on their corpse. I can see why he wouldn't want to associate his feelings for the Warden with that.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 07 juin 2010 - 11:17 .

[Sannox]

I agree with that last bit (about the word being negative). I think it's more than that too - when he last felt love, he felt fear/negative feelings. Because he doesn't have those negative feelings with the warden, it takes him longer to realise it's love. I do think when he says that he doesn't know it's love, it's genuine. It's a tone of voice thing again, so I can't prove it, but it feels sincere to me when he says it.

That's a good point about the warden being different with the others. I did get frustrated having to play a reticent warden with Zevran (even though I was roleplaying a reticent character!). You do get more options with the others but can play it down. With Zevran you can only play it down.

You see that as him not allowing you the openings - but he does. There are points where he tests the water, and confesses things, but the warden doesn't respond in kind. The way I've come to see it, in terms of the writing, Zevran's story wouldn't work with a more forthcoming warden. He can confess bits and pieces, but if the warden was forthcoming from the beginning, the romance story couldn't take the same route.

Sex isn't really a problem, so that's not exactly what he's talking about in the 'choices' conversation. He is happy for the warden to have sex with other people, until the point where the other person has feelings that would mean they'd want an exclusive relationship (exclusive in terms of relationship, rather than sex). And he doesn't need to have had sex to force that choice, I believe.  (The other person is also happy with the sex, up to a point).

I think what he says as a friend is very powerful, committed and about the relationship between the two of you. Personally, I think he would end up loving a friend at 100 approval, although it's not labelled as such. I don't think any less of his confessions when they're things he might say to a friend.

Modifié par Sannox, 07 juin 2010 - 12:15 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Sannox wrote...

You see that as him not allowing you the openings - but he does. There are points where he tests the water, and confesses things, but the warden doesn't respond in kind. The way I've come to see it, in terms of the writing, Zevran's story wouldn't work with a more forthcoming warden. He can confess bits and pieces, but if the warden was forthcoming from the beginning, the romance story couldn't take the same route.

Oh, I'm not saying that he's not allowing the Warden openings. He is. It's the Warden who's reluctant to take them. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't be forthcoming in a situation like that either. Here's a guy the Warden is supposedly having a fling with, but she/he might be starting to develop feelings for him. And he's also starting to act a little odd, but at the same time, he's not saying anything conclusive. So rather than jump in head first and possibly get hurt, the Warden is trying to be more guarded with what she/he says. Casual things can become messy when feelings get involved. Especially with the kind of premise they have (assassination attempt). So they're both being careful, kind of like baiting the other to say a little bit more rather than plonking everything out in the open right away.

[soignee]

I'm bored, have some music I listen when I try to write. I have a Dead Dust Walking playlist (no really) that I listen to to get in the mood, it's very sad. ANYWAY.

Songs that remind me of Zevran:

1) Love is like a sin my love for the ones that feel it the most... "Paradise Circus" by Massive Attack. (PS: watch this video it's amazing.)
2) I've heard it all before and I chose to ignore it... "Caesar" I Blame Coco feat. Robyn.

if only for the LOLZ:
3) I just set them up to knock them down.... "Starstrukk" by 3oh!3 ft. Katy Perry. (you shut up, this is my work out song too...)

And the Missa Brosca/Zevran love story soundtrack:
4) "Long Time," by Shakira.
5) "Draw Your Swords," by Angus and Julia Stone.


...feel free to mock me now, go on.

Modifié par soignee, 07 juin 2010 - 01:14 .

[aimo_ahmed]

Apologies, Nonvita, for borrowing Princess for this artwork, but Disney Princess Princess is inspiring 



"Princess is delighted to chance upon the rare, mythical creature known as the Alicorn during her musical medley in the Magical Forests of Highever. She yearns to touch the beautiful sparkly beast, but little did she realize the danger in the form of its rider: A small yet utterly fierce monster princess ready to defend her claim on the wondrous steed with wanton violence."

Haha, I suck at writing flowery prose XD

*runs away*

Modifié par aimo_ahmed, 07 juin 2010 - 01:21 .

[soignee]

aimo_ahmed wrote...

Apologies, Nonvita, for borrowing Princess for this artwork, but Disney Princess Princess is inspiring 



"Princess is delighted to chance upon the rare, mythical creature known as the Alicorn during her musical medley in the Magical Forests of Highever. She yearns to touch the beautiful sparkly beast, but little did she realize the danger in the form of its rider: A small yet utterly fierce monster princess ready to defend her claim on the wondrous steed with wanton violence."

Haha, I suck at writing flowery prose XD

*runs away*

oh GOD why do I bother drinking on this forum AHAHHA  choking on my tea, brb
AIMO ILU SO HARDDDDDDDD

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Poison, by Alice Cooper...for too many reasons.
Viva la Vida, by Coldplay...Zev's fall from being the best Crow in Antiva
Lovecats, by The Cure...General Zevishness.

Edit: Aimo...pink! XD

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 07 juin 2010 - 01:25 .

[Minaleth]

Both Princess CousCous artworks are stunning! *is stunned* LOL

[Behindyounow]

Whats this whole Princess thing?

[soignee]

Behindyounow wrote...

Whats this whole Princess thing?

Whhhhhhy, Princess Cousland of course! The most perfect woman in the whole world. Men and women alike throw themselves at her feet and weep at her perfection. Alistair's soulmate, obviously. How can he resist? All those others of course do not compare.

[Behindyounow]

So its like a parody of people who make their Couslands into perfect princesses?

[Minaleth]

Behindyounow wrote...

So its like a parody of people who make their Couslands into perfect princesses?

And maybe also a bit of those who ship the only true princess Cousland/Alistair pairing... <3

Modifié par Minaleth, 07 juin 2010 - 01:57 .

[soignee]

Oh Princess, you are amazing

*stares into space dreamily and sighs*

[Nilfalasiel]

Would Princess' mabari be called Precious, by any chance? With a special pink glittery kaddis and a sequined collar?

[Aroihkin]

*brain is broken*

AND ALSO, LOL.

Oh maaan, this thread. XD

Modifié par Aroihkin, 07 juin 2010 - 02:16 .

[Sannox]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Sannox wrote...

You see that as him not allowing you the openings - but he does. There are points where he tests the water, and confesses things, but the warden doesn't respond in kind. The way I've come to see it, in terms of the writing, Zevran's story wouldn't work with a more forthcoming warden. He can confess bits and pieces, but if the warden was forthcoming from the beginning, the romance story couldn't take the same route.

Oh, I'm not saying that he's not allowing the Warden openings. He is. It's the Warden who's reluctant to take them. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't be forthcoming in a situation like that either. Here's a guy the Warden is supposedly having a fling with, but she/he might be starting to develop feelings for him. And he's also starting to act a little odd, but at the same time, he's not saying anything conclusive. So rather than jump in head first and possibly get hurt, the Warden is trying to be more guarded with what she/he says. Casual things can become messy when feelings get involved. Especially with the kind of premise they have (assassination attempt). So they're both being careful, kind of like baiting the other to say a little bit more rather than plonking everything out in the open right away.

Yes, I see what you mean.  It's an awkward situation in that the warden has taken Zevran into his/her service, and Zevran doesn't really have a choice, because he'll be killed otherwise.  I think that's one reason that the dialogue options aren't given - because the story can't progress until Zevran is truly free, after Taliesin.  

I don't think the 'baiting' is equal though.  Zevran is the one who tends to nudge and prompt and confess that little bit more, even later.   For instance - what he says after the Rinna conversation, saying he'll be with the warden till death, offering the earring, refusing sex, talking about what he feels.   The warden doesn't really confess feelings until right at the end, after all that. 

[Sannox]

@ Soignee, the top video is from The Fall - have you seen it? It's a gorgeous film, with a fantastic child actor.

@ Shadow Poison always makes me think of Zevran too.

@ Aimo Brilliant!

I probably shouldn't post anything off my playlist because it would just be embarrassing. I'll look through and see if anything particularly reminds me of Zevran though.

Modifié par Sannox, 07 juin 2010 - 02:19 .

[soignee]

Sannox wrote...

@ Soignee, the top video is from The Fall - have you seen it? It's a gorgeous film, with a fantastic child actor.

 

yup, it's amazing. It's Antiva in my head too, not going to lie.