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[Sarah1281]

Creature 1 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Fanart takes more work than fanfics? Maybe for one-shots but for longer ones? I rather doubt it.

It is easier to write crappy fanfiction than drawing bad fanart.

I don't draw fanart but say it takes, what, 30 hours to complete a crappy piece (and if it's that bad I doubt it would take that long). If you have a crappy fanfic that's, say, only 40,000 words then MAYBE you could get it written in the same time if you literally type as things occur to you and don't hit a wall or plan it out. Anything longer and you simply can't compare it. As a general rule, if it takes you longer to do you've put more work into it.

At the horrible fanfic forum I used to post at much of the fanfic was only hundreds or a few thousands of words long, and that was enough to make your eyes bleed and often make you reach for the brainbleach.  

Plan it out??  This is bad fanfic we're talking about, why would you do a thing like that? 

Just because people might have no talent for writing doesn't mean they aren't trying. And I'm not sure I really see the logic behind 'it takes more skill to fail at drawing then fail at writing.' I fail at drawing and doing so is really easy. Far easier than I imagine being good at it would be.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 14 juin 2010 - 04:36 .

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I don't draw fanart but say it takes, what, 30 hours to complete a crappy piece (and if it's that bad I doubt it would take that long). If you have a crappy fanfic that's, say, only 40,000 words then MAYBE you could get it written in the same time if you literally type as things occur to you and don't hit a wall or plan it out. Anything longer and you simply can't compare it. As a general rule, if it takes you longer to do you've put more work into it.

To have your fanart even being recognized, you have to put some effort into it. It takes longer to decide that a fanfic is spectacularly bad, and you have to read through it. Hence why bad fanfiction usually gets more bashing than bad fanart.

soignee wrote...

Depennnnds. writing is like passing a large stone to me. Drawing yeah I have crap F*CK YOU HANDS I'LL JUST HIDE YOU THEN moments, but it's easier. 

I was talking about bad fanart and fanfiction.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 14 juin 2010 - 04:37 .

[Creature 1]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Just because people might have no talent for writing doesn't mean they aren't trying.

Some of them are trying, many are not.

And I'm not sure I really see the logic behind 'it takes more skill to fail at drawing then fail at writing.' I fail at drawing and doing so is really easy. Far easier than I imagine being good at it would be.

You probably fail at the "not even bad" level, like my happy stick man. 

Whatever, it's inconsequential.  That's my explanation for why there's so much more awful fanfiction than fanart. 

[Aroihkin]

Creature 1 wrote...

I don't remember much art mocking.  We've done some fanfic mocking, which I occasionally take part in, but sometimes stuff is so awful it's hard not to laugh.  There are whole communities devoted to the discussion of really bad fic, and not just bad in execution but bad in concept (to pick a random fandom, HP fics that "rehab" Hermione by making her suddenly knockout gorgeous, or get rid of her embarrassing Muggle parents by making her an adopted pureblood, or put Draco in leather pants, or slash Harry with Voldemort(!)).  Fanart generally doesn't reach the same lows that fanfiction does, perhaps because it's more work. 

I don't have specific incidents bookmarked for reference, but the original question was why no one posts random fanart anymore... and I gave my own reason as someone who used to post quite a lot of random fanart.

Still, it was considered to be in poor taste to mock Zevran fanfic in here, so I'm not sure why it's so defensible to needlessly mock fanart. Like Zevran has so many active fanartists that we really need to cull the herd or some-such bullsh*t.

And I browse weepingc*ck (NSFW LJ community), but there's a pretty big quality gap between examples, don't you think? Fanart that someone thinks is nice enough to link versus pulsing purple love-helmets. Plus this is a general fan thread, and Weeping is a comm dedicated to nothing but the mockery of terrible, terrible porn... and making it funny, not just snarky.

And this isn't just "my goodness, the tense seems to be a bit off!" (insert small artistic detail here for a fanart), but stuff I can't quote because it's NSFW but it's so terrible it almost has to be on purpose.

(So I agree, on a sidenote, that there's more OMGWTFWHYDIDYOUWRITETHAT than equivilent for art...)

Either way. Original Q = why no fanart. My A = I don't like the way fanart done by non-thread-posters is ocassionally treated here.

Modifié par Aroihkin, 14 juin 2010 - 04:47 .

[Sarah1281]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I don't draw fanart but say it takes, what, 30 hours to complete a crappy piece (and if it's that bad I doubt it would take that long). If you have a crappy fanfic that's, say, only 40,000 words then MAYBE you could get it written in the same time if you literally type as things occur to you and don't hit a wall or plan it out. Anything longer and you simply can't compare it. As a general rule, if it takes you longer to do you've put more work into it.

To have your fanart even being recognized, you have to put some effort into it. It takes longer to decide that a fanfic is spectacularly bad, and you have to read through it. Hence why bad fanfiction usually gets more bashing than bad fanart.

soignee wrote...

Depennnnds. writing is like passing a large stone to me. Drawing yeah I have crap F*CK YOU HANDS I'LL JUST HIDE YOU THEN moments, but it's easier. 

I was talking about bad fanart and fanfiction.

Just because it might take more effort to get fanart good enough to be mocked doesn't mean it takes more effort automatically to do fanart or that it's automatically harder than fanfiction. As a fanfiction writer I kind of resent the implication that it's easier to write than draw.

[Tellervo]

Words just come out. Drawing takes me weeks, rarely gets finished, and I never like it even if I'm proud of the improvement. So, it depends on the person. Everyone's got different talents. Personally, I think fic is about a thousand times easier than art.

[Creature 1]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Just because it might take more effort to get fanart good enough to be mocked doesn't mean it takes more effort automatically to do fanart or that it's automatically harder than fanfiction. As a fanfiction writer I kind of resent the implication that it's easier to write than draw.

I write, I don't draw, and I'll happily say it's a heck of a lot harder to write than draw.  

Modifié par Creature 1, 14 juin 2010 - 04:48 .

[Minaleth]

What about this Sarah - there are more fanfic witers than fanartists (either quality). Why is that?

Modifié par Minaleth, 14 juin 2010 - 04:52 .

[Sarah1281]

Tellervo wrote...

Words just come out. Drawing takes me weeks, rarely gets finished, and I never like it even if I'm proud of the improvement. So, it depends on the person. Everyone's got different talents. Personally, I think fic is about a thousand times easier than art.

Has it ever taken you longer than a year of regularly working on a drawing and not just abandoing it for awhile to finish it? It's taken me that long for some fanfics.

[Sarah1281]

Minaleth wrote...

What about this Sarah - there are more fanfic witers than fanartists (either quality). Why is that?

I'm sure there are many reasons but if I had to pick one I'd go with 'more intereset in fanfic' in these people.

[Herr Uhl]

Minaleth wrote...

What about this Sarah - there are more fanfic witer than fanartists (either quality). Why is that?

It is easier to realize that your fanart is bad than your fanfiction?

And because there (probably) is a lot more deadbeat writers than artists.

[Creature 1]

Aroihkin wrote...
And I browse weepingc*ck (NSFW LJ community), but there's a pretty big quality gap between examples, don't you think? Fanart that someone thinks is nice enough to link versus pulsing purple love-helmets. Plus this is a general fan thread, and Weeping is a comm dedicated to nothing but the mockery of terrible, terrible porn... and making it funny, not just snarky.

And this isn't just "my goodness, the tense seems to be a bit off!" (insert small artistic detail here for a fanart), but stuff I can't quote because it's NSFW but it's so terrible it almost has to be on purpose.

(So I agree, on a sidenote, that there's more OMGWTFWHYDIDYOUWRITETHAT than equivilent for art...)

Either way. Original Q = why no fanart. My A = I don't like the way fanart done by non-thread-posters is ocassionally treated here.

Yes, sometimes I read stuff and wonder if there's some version of Poe's law for badfic. 

I haven't seen any fanart remotely approaching the depths I've seen dredged by fanfic.  I don't really remember much in the way of critique here.  Personally the most criticism I've had for a fanart here was "too feminine for me" of one Zevran pic, and I don't think I even posted that.  There's one I said in this thread that the Warden character looked like a girl, but that was a observation, not a critique! 

[Aroihkin]

Creature 1 wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...
And I browse weepingc*ck (NSFW LJ community), but there's a pretty big quality gap between examples, don't you think? Fanart that someone thinks is nice enough to link versus pulsing purple love-helmets. Plus this is a general fan thread, and Weeping is a comm dedicated to nothing but the mockery of terrible, terrible porn... and making it funny, not just snarky.

And this isn't just "my goodness, the tense seems to be a bit off!" (insert small artistic detail here for a fanart), but stuff I can't quote because it's NSFW but it's so terrible it almost has to be on purpose.

(So I agree, on a sidenote, that there's more OMGWTFWHYDIDYOUWRITETHAT than equivilent for art...)

Either way. Original Q = why no fanart. My A = I don't like the way fanart done by non-thread-posters is ocassionally treated here.

Yes, sometimes I read stuff and wonder if there's some version of Poe's law for badfic. 

I haven't seen any fanart remotely approaching the depths I've seen dredged by fanfic.  I don't really remember much in the way of critique here.  Personally the most criticism I've had for a fanart here was "too feminine for me" of one Zevran pic, and I don't think I even posted that.  There's one I said in this thread that the Warden character looked like a girl, but that was a observation, not a critique! 

Well, Devart isn't called the pit of voles like fanfiction.net, for example.

[tmp7704]

soignee wrote...

Why should they? I am not oblidged to review every piece of literature, music, theatre show, art, chibi doodle, film etc I've ever seen. I only review when things effect me, whatever the reaction. I can tilt my head and go, "hmm the eyeline seems skewered on that fanart... Anyway what do you think about these shoes?" On this thread and not feel guilty. Creative consciousness is a funny thing, amirite?

I think the point was if someone has time to **** on the intertubes about eyeliner in someone else's work, then it might be as well done in the place where the author gets to see it. Or at least gets a copy. Rather than when they don't get to see it. After all, the effort involved is the same and they're already ****ing regardless, so why not?

[Tellervo]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Tellervo wrote...

Words just come out. Drawing takes me weeks, rarely gets finished, and I never like it even if I'm proud of the improvement. So, it depends on the person. Everyone's got different talents. Personally, I think fic is about a thousand times easier than art.

Has it ever taken you longer than a year of regularly working on a drawing and not just abandoing it for awhile to finish it? It's taken me that long for some fanfics.

Yes, actually.  I have a couple of pastel pieces like that.  One of them is going on seven years now, and I'm convinced I'll never finish it to satisfaction.

For me, all drawing is an abstraction of some sort.  It takes me maybe thirty minutes of work to clearly communicate an image in words, but in art?  At least a week, and then it won't be quite what I intended.  And emotion, that I'm utterly incapable of communicating through art.  So, yes, fiction is much easier than art, at least for me.

[Minaleth]

Aroihkin wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...
Yes, sometimes I read stuff and wonder if there's some version of Poe's law for badfic. 

I haven't seen any fanart remotely approaching the depths I've seen dredged by fanfic.  I don't really remember much in the way of critique here.  Personally the most criticism I've had for a fanart here was "too feminine for me" of one Zevran pic, and I don't think I even posted that.  There's one I said in this thread that the Warden character looked like a girl, but that was a observation, not a critique! 

Well, Devart isn't called the pit of voles like fanfiction.net, for example.

Depend for who. For nonfactor people like you or me (no offense but we are) it's pretty calm place, but once you get some recognition, or participate in fandoms that are very rabid and polarized, or if you do something controversial say artistic nudes or something you could get your share. I know this only from observation though.

[Creature 1]

Aroihkin wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...
And I browse weepingc*ck (NSFW LJ community), but there's a pretty big quality gap between examples, don't you think? Fanart that someone thinks is nice enough to link versus pulsing purple love-helmets. Plus this is a general fan thread, and Weeping is a comm dedicated to nothing but the mockery of terrible, terrible porn... and making it funny, not just snarky.

And this isn't just "my goodness, the tense seems to be a bit off!" (insert small artistic detail here for a fanart), but stuff I can't quote because it's NSFW but it's so terrible it almost has to be on purpose.

(So I agree, on a sidenote, that there's more OMGWTFWHYDIDYOUWRITETHAT than equivilent for art...)

Either way. Original Q = why no fanart. My A = I don't like the way fanart done by non-thread-posters is ocassionally treated here.

Yes, sometimes I read stuff and wonder if there's some version of Poe's law for badfic. 

I haven't seen any fanart remotely approaching the depths I've seen dredged by fanfic.  I don't really remember much in the way of critique here.  Personally the most criticism I've had for a fanart here was "too feminine for me" of one Zevran pic, and I don't think I even posted that.  There's one I said in this thread that the Warden character looked like a girl, but that was a observation, not a critique! 

Well, Devart isn't called the pit of voles like fanfiction.net, for example.

Ahh, the pit of voles.  *huggles PoV*  I actually had a parody fic posted one April 1 there yanked for violation of ToS.  I believe I'd made the first chapter script layout, which was expressly forbidden, or maybe it was just the egregious spelling.  Unfortunately I also lost a rather amusing (to me, at least) LotR poem in a different chapter of the same story and didn't have a backup for it! 

[ejoslin]

Well, I'm probably guilty of being an ass about someone else's artwork which is 1000000x better than anything I could draw. I post without thinking at times!



As far as writing -- I think it's the one medium in which most people actually can do reasonably well. I've actually written professionally (nothing interesting, trust me, just user manuals), so I can safely say, even if you're not naturally gifted, it's a skill that can be developed anyway.

[jenovan]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Tellervo wrote...

Words just come out. Drawing takes me weeks, rarely gets finished, and I never like it even if I'm proud of the improvement. So, it depends on the person. Everyone's got different talents. Personally, I think fic is about a thousand times easier than art.

Has it ever taken you longer than a year of regularly working on a drawing and not just abandoing it for awhile to finish it? It's taken me that long for some fanfics.

It took me 3 years to finish a <50k word original fic.  As far as I'm concerned, writing is still easier.

I think you're overlooking the "bad" part.  If you're taking a year to write, edit, be unsatisfied with something, you're likely not writing badly.

[Creature 1]

I think it's easy to get started writing but hard to do really really well. I usually end up going through this process:



1. Write stuff.

2. Go back and add emotion.

3. Go back and add description.

4. Go back and fix repetitive sentence structure.



And sometimes:



5. Go back and have my muse demand a rewrite.



And sometimes it's still not right and I don't know why.



I've had an interest in writing since I was 12, though I've only written sporadically. The more I write, the more I realize how difficult it is.

[soignee]

tmp7704 wrote...

soignee wrote...

Why should they? I am not oblidged to review every piece of literature, music, theatre show, art, chibi doodle, film etc I've ever seen. I only review when things effect me, whatever the reaction. I can tilt my head and go, "hmm the eyeline seems skewered on that fanart... Anyway what do you think about these shoes?" On this thread and not feel guilty. Creative consciousness is a funny thing, amirite?

I think the point was if someone has time to **** on the intertubes about eyeliner in someone else's work, then it might be as well done in the place where the author gets to see it. Or at least gets a copy. Rather than when they don't get to see it. After all, the effort involved is the same and they're already ****ing regardless, so why not?

bollocks, frankly. I'm sure Christina Aguilera would love to know I think her latest album could use a heavy hand in the editing department. Wait, I'll get it on it now.

[Creature 1]

jenovan wrote...

It took me 3 years to finish a <50k word original fic.  As far as I'm concerned, writing is still easier.

lol  I have a book I started writing when I was 12 that's still not done.  Part of the problem is it kept changing as I got older.  Some day I need to finish the blasted thing.  It's actually a prequel and two novels, with a potential third I only have a hazy idea about.

[Aroihkin]

Minaleth wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...
Yes, sometimes I read stuff and wonder if there's some version of Poe's law for badfic. 

I haven't seen any fanart remotely approaching the depths I've seen dredged by fanfic.  I don't really remember much in the way of critique here.  Personally the most criticism I've had for a fanart here was "too feminine for me" of one Zevran pic, and I don't think I even posted that.  There's one I said in this thread that the Warden character looked like a girl, but that was a observation, not a critique! 

Well, Devart isn't called the pit of voles like fanfiction.net, for example.

Depend for who. For nonfactor people like you or me (no offense but we are) it's pretty calm place, but once you get some recognition, or participate in fandoms that are very rabid and polarized, or if you do something controversial say artistic nudes or something you could get your share. I know this only from observation though.

The pit is known as the pit because it's 90% trash, not because of feedback recieved there. XD

FF.Net is utterly responsible for my mastering the art of skim-reading. I got in the habit of skimming the first few chapters of a fanfic (or first page of a oneshot) before really reading it just to spare my brain from needing bleach funneled in through my eyesockets.

And just when I'd almost give up, I'd find a sparkling gem of a fic and it was like the abusive S/O being nice for a day. "They promised they wouldn't hit me no more!"

And then BAM, surprise m-preg right in the face!

Edit: It was even more lolarious when full-on smut was allowed on there.

Modifié par Aroihkin, 14 juin 2010 - 05:12 .

[Kaioku]

Tellervo wrote...

Words just come out. Drawing takes me weeks, rarely gets finished, and I never like it even if I'm proud of the improvement. So, it depends on the person. Everyone's got different talents. Personally, I think fic is about a thousand times easier than art.

Objection! (T__T)


@aro: *JUMPS* HERE I AM! WRITING!

Edit: Ewwwwwwwwww I don't want Mpreg ... neither in nor getting it all over my face.

Modifié par Kaioku, 14 juin 2010 - 05:12 .

[Creature 1]

Aroihkin wrote...
And then BAM, surprise m-preg right in the face!

Edit: It was even more lolarious when full-on smut was allowed on there.

If you don't like it, don't read it!