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[Verly]

There are game plays where I spare Loghain and I find him a very interesting character in his own right, there are just some playthroughs that I can't see my characters sparing him. I'm not even sure what Veylya is going to do when she gets to that point. She and Ali don't really get along at that much. I just finished Orzammar (as my first tready quest) and he has *just* asked her what she thought about her traveling companions. He didn't like what she did at Redcliff and he's still not quite over it I guess.


Thread topper:

Modifié par Verly, 16 juin 2010 - 04:22 .

[Nilfalasiel]

soignee wrote...

Something about the Ali thread rubs me the wrong way though, idk what it is. Probably because it's too fast moving? Kind or reminds me of the time I stumbled into a private book club party and it consisted of giddy 30somethings in no way shape or form talking about books and I sort of edged out quietly, trying to find where I was meant to be instead.

That sounds a lot like the Tali thread over on the ME forums. It's what...at least 4k posts long by now? 5k maybe? I've never even tried looking in.

I will occasionally poke the Morrigan thread as I love me some Morri, though it kind of feels like I'm wandering into one of those bars and everyone's slumped over the bar with their drinks muttering into their own misery. There may even be country played in the background to add to the despair...

Awww  That's such a great comparison, though. Poor Morrigan fans really do get the short end of the storyline stick, don't they? I'd be tempted to give them a group hug, if I wasn't afraid that it would be interpreted as Schadenfreude.

As for Loghain, my DE was actually seriously considering letting him live, making him a GW and feeding him to the Archdemon as a fitting form of punishment. Kinda like "oh you're doing all this for the sake of Ferelden? very well, here's the best thing you can do for Ferelden". But then Alistair threw a hissy fit, so I killed him, since I didn't feel like losing all the work I'd put into Al. Had there not been the threat of him leaving though, I totally would've forcibly Grey-Wardened Loghain.

[ejoslin]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Lol, we are talking about the same convo, but we seem to be interpreting it very differently. Yes, he does present it as a completely throwaway gift...at first. But if you refuse it once, he insists that you take it, which contradicts his careless presentation of it. Moreover, if you do accept it, he says "it's meant a lot to me (again, contradiction with his previous carelessness), but so have...so has everything you've done." He does care, even if he's refusing to put words onto it. I know that it's meant to be the Warden putting her/his feelings on the line, but she/he doesn't actually say anything about them; to me, it feels like she/he's forcing Zev to make the first move. And for all he knows, she/he could be trying to have her/his cake and eat it: demanding commitment without giving any in return. I've been in situations like that, and I can understand why he'd be upset about it.

Because, to me, he does sound upset, not just frustrated. "You pick up every stray bit of treasure, but you won't take this"; another contradiction. If the gift was really as throwaway as he presented it, he wouldn't have any reason to say it in this tone. His earlier statement that "you can wear it or sell it, or anything you like" sounds like the Warden could just toss it in the trash, and he wouldn't care. But refuse to take it, and suddenly it's not so trivial anymore.

I never said it was trivial, and it's obvious he's lying when he says it means nothing.  And of course he's contradicting himself -- he's in love, but he doesn't want to admit it.  So he doesn't drop the lie.  He refuses to say it means something.  As you point out, he slips and ALMOST says that the warden means something to him, but catches himself in time.  I actually found that whole conversation quite hurtful, from his "let's hope not" when asking if it meant they were married to his outright refusing to say, "you've meant a lot to me."

The earring can be refused for two reasons there -- one with the warden stating straight out that they don't want it, and the other with the warden saying they'll only take it if it means something.  Saying you'll take it if it means something I think sounds like the warden IS asking for a commitment, at least it does to me.  The warden is saying, "I want this to be more."

But understand, I refused the earring the first time unspoiled and was completely blown away by the way it played out.  I think my reaction IRL would be the same as my character's as that was my initial reaction.  It wasn't trying to play a game or get something out of him, it was trying to move things forward.

The few times you can see Zevran angry in the game, he doesn't sound like he does at the end of that conversation.  He is upset, but what is really so upsetting about someone saying to you, "I will take it only if it means something"?  My warden doesn't want it to "wear or sell" or to treat it as a piece of treasure -- she wants a piece of jewelry coming from the man she loves to be something that represents that.


*grin* Gah, the earring discussion again!

Edit: But that's the great thing about the game, and probably especially Zevran's romance -- it can be taken so many different ways.

And I want to add:

Zevran is only one half of the equation in that discussion, and not only his feelings matter in this!  So if a warden is hurt by the way he offers it, it probably is better that they refuse it.

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 juin 2010 - 04:21 .

[Ramante]

I love Zevran's line 'We loot every corpse we see, but you refuse to take this.' (paraphrased obviously), once he said that I felt really guilty because it is so true. xD



I stopped looking in the Ali-thread after MG found a disturbing conversation about cows.. it was something like;

Person A: 'How do you call a male cow?'

Person B: 'That would be a bull.'

Person A: 'So a bull is not a seperate species?'

[tmp7704]

ejoslin wrote...

City elf would kill him and make Alistair king no matter what.

Hmm my CE didn't have problem with Alistair's wish to kill Loghain (for obvious reasons) but actually handed the crown back to Anora -- they made an arrangement beforehand and Anora did keep her end of the bargain. Not to mention unhardened Alistair really hated the idea so that way everyone ended relatively happy and with something they wanted.

[sami jo]

I tend to play elves, and they usually have trouble with everything that happened in the Alienage. My mage did spare him because she thought it would be better for Ferelden. None of my characters have been all that comfortable with Al's "vengeance for Duncan no matter what!" spree either, though, and the whole killing him after he surrenders in front of his daughter has never seemed right.

[Ramante]

tmp7704 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

City elf would kill him and make Alistair king no matter what.

Hmm my CE didn't have problem with Alistair's wish to kill Loghain (for obvious reasons) but actually handed the crown back to Anora -- they made an arrangement beforehand and Anora did keep her end of the bargain. Not to mention unhardened Alistair really hated the idea so that way everyone ended relatively happy and with something they wanted.

Even when hardened  he hates the idea. :/

I'm so grateful for ejoslin's comments about the political marriage. The minute I read about it I had the entire thing planned:
- Alistair unhardened
- Romance Zevran
- Political marriage with Zev on the side
- All power for my Warden

[Sarah1281]

So has anybody else made Loghain a Warden and married Alistair to Anora partly because they realized that Alistair would never serve with Loghain and didn't want the new King getting himself killed before he even took the throne?

[tmp7704]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I think Tirigon summed it up the best why she spared him on her CE. He is a commoner by birth, as his daughter, and a CE would have a very big reason to hate ANY Noble.

It's not like CE gets to brush shoulders with many nobles exactly, so that's a curious statement and reasoning behind it doesn't seem clear. If it's all based on the experience with arl's son, then by the same token CE has "very big reason" to hate all commoners, because a commoner has tried to sell their father into slavery along with others dear to CE?

edit: plus, i believe it was commoners that killed CE's mother in one of the purges, although that's pretty vague in game so i can be mistaken here.

Modifié par tmp7704, 16 juin 2010 - 04:29 .

[ejoslin]

tmp7704 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

City elf would kill him and make Alistair king no matter what.

Hmm my CE didn't have problem with Alistair's wish to kill Loghain (for obvious reasons) but actually handed the crown back to Anora -- they made an arrangement beforehand and Anora did keep her end of the bargain. Not to mention unhardened Alistair really hated the idea so that way everyone ended relatively happy and with something they wanted.

*grin* I should have been clear that I speak only for me and why I decide to spare Loghain or kill him.  My city elf had no trust for Anora at all (none of them -- I won't say how many playthroughs I've done).  I understand that other people play it differently.

I actually like Alistair/Anora as a ruling couple if the warden is not a HN (I think HN + Alistair/Anora makes a better ruling couple but that is my ego talking).  I think also the marriage between any of them would make for a stronger, united country -- strongest being HNM/Anora as that completely unites the country.

Edit: Loghain to me is usually just another pawn.  City Elf is the exception for me -- she wants revenge!

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 juin 2010 - 04:27 .

[Ramante]

Sarah1281 wrote...

So has anybody else made Loghain a Warden and married Alistair to Anora partly because they realized that Alistair would never serve with Loghain and didn't want the new King getting himself killed before he even took the throne?

Everytime I recrute Loghain I let Alistair marry Anora. Alistair is really... annoying in Awakening when you do that. -.-
Does anyone know when Loghain is supposed to show up in Awakening, haven't seen him yet? :/

@Sarah, I love your ava.. something about the light, it's just beautiful.

[Costin_Razvan]

Does anyone know when Loghain is supposed to show up in Awakening, haven't seen him yet? :/

Do 2 of the three major quests and he will be in Vigil's Keep.

[ejoslin]

Ramante wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

City elf would kill him and make Alistair king no matter what.

Hmm my CE didn't have problem with Alistair's wish to kill Loghain (for obvious reasons) but actually handed the crown back to Anora -- they made an arrangement beforehand and Anora did keep her end of the bargain. Not to mention unhardened Alistair really hated the idea so that way everyone ended relatively happy and with something they wanted.

Even when hardened  he hates the idea. :/

I'm so grateful for ejoslin's comments about the political marriage. The minute I read about it I had the entire thing planned:
- Alistair unhardened
- Romance Zevran
- Political marriage with Zev on the side
- All power for my Warden

Teyrna of Gwaren and sister to the Teyrn of Highever as well!  It's not a bad deal at all for the ambitious.  And there's the best chance of an heir being produced that way as well, though I think any heir is very unlikely.

[Sarah1281]

Ramante wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

So has anybody else made Loghain a Warden and married Alistair to Anora partly because they realized that Alistair would never serve with Loghain and didn't want the new King getting himself killed before he even took the throne?

Everytime I recrute Loghain I let Alistair marry Anora. Alistair is really... annoying in Awakening when you do that. -.-
Does anyone know when Loghain is supposed to show up in Awakening, haven't seen him yet? :/

@Sarah, I love your ava.. something about the light, it's just beautiful.

 Thanks.

[sami jo]

Sarah1281 wrote...

So has anybody else made Loghain a Warden and married Alistair to Anora partly because they realized that Alistair would never serve with Loghain and didn't want the new King getting himself killed before he even took the throne?

That would be exactly what my mage did.

[Ramante]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Does anyone know when Loghain is supposed to show up in Awakening, haven't seen him yet? :/

Do 2 of the three major quests and he will be in Vigil's Keep.

Thanks, I wa afraid it was another bug that I hadn't seen him.. my game is so messed up. The weirdest things are (not) going on. I really need to figure out how to fix all the bugs, because I thought it was just my human mage being buggy, but my CE is having the same issues. >>

Modifié par Ramante, 16 juin 2010 - 04:33 .

[ejoslin]

Ramante, what issues?

[Minaleth]

Ramante wrote...
- Alistair unhardened
- Romance Zevran
- Political marriage with Zev on the side
- All power for my Warden

I like how you think 

Though my canon and current scenarios are different.
Canon:
- Alistair unhardened
- Romance everyone and choose Zevran, dump Alistair before it even gets serious
- Marry Alistair to Anora
- run away with Zev to take over the Crows (with small side trip to Amaranthine)
Current:
- Alistair hardened
- Romance Zevran and only him
- spare Loghain, feed him to dragon, marry Alistair to Anora
- quietly vanish with Zevran somewhere north where it is warmer 

If I ever play human noble I would probably want to get them to the throne or somehow take the power, yes. But I really like to marry Alistair to Anora, me thinks they are really nice couple and also maybe capable rulers.

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

So has anybody else made Loghain a Warden and married Alistair to Anora partly because they realized that Alistair would never serve with Loghain and didn't want the new King getting himself killed before he even took the throne?

Once.

Edit: But then I wanted to get rid of the git (they didn't like each other very much)

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 16 juin 2010 - 04:37 .

[Minaleth]

Sarah1281 wrote...

So has anybody else made Loghain a Warden and married Alistair to Anora partly because they realized that Alistair would never serve with Loghain and didn't want the new King getting himself killed before he even took the throne?

Yes, but for different reasons.

[Ramante]

ejoslin wrote...

Ramante, what issues?

- Cadash Thaig is not available, but quest is active (Shale said she wants to visit it)
- The Love Letter from the Werewolf ruines isn't there, the only thing I find is a Darkspawn bow on one corpse and money on the other one
- Alistair isn't getting hardened -> I don't get the camp conversation

Strange thing about my mage is also that I gave my save file to MG and he fixed these things, but when I got my mage back Zev was naked (he was wearing mod armor) and my ZevRing was gone.. so my mage is now in Awakening without her earring.

And I don't get Charsen's gatekiss to work on my human mage, I got the normal tent-kiss so there is a kiss added, but not the right one. Could be that I picked the wrong file for that.

[jenovan]

Sarah1281 wrote...

So has anybody else made Loghain a Warden and married Alistair to Anora partly because they realized that Alistair would never serve with Loghain and didn't want the new King getting himself killed before he even took the throne?

The first time I played through the game with my CE, I did this, attempting to spare Alistair and keep him off the battlefield for the sake of the kingship.  Loghain ended up dying to kill the Archdemon.  I subsequently changed my mind about how I wanted the Warden's story to go, though, so that isn't my "canon" playthrough for him anymore.

I think my DE girl may spare Loghain for purposes of practicality, if she ever makes it that far!

[ejoslin]

Are you sure you're looking in the right place for the love letter? There are three hidden doors when you walk in. The love letter is in a treasure chest IIRC. As soon as you walk in, there's a hidden door on either side (not the one on the left after you go down the stairs, but as soon as you walk in).

Alistair not getting hardened is weird. Have you finished all conversations with him and is his approval high enough?

But not getting Charsen's kiss at the gate but getting a different one is weird -- the regular kiss has a different name. OOOOOOH< but, yeh, if you're getting that AND you're in love with him, make sure you have the most recent version of GateKiss. I think Charsen has different kisses for "in love" and "in a romance" and one of the alpha versions did that to me as well.

Edit: To get to Cadash Thaig, if Shale wasn't with me at Caridin (and she usually is not, heh, as I normally spare Branka), I have to go to to Caridin's Cross to open up Cadash.

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 juin 2010 - 04:46 .

[Verly]

My DE's don't feel right sparing Loghain either. After all they are Dalish..at least they have been traveling with with their rag tag group of mostly humans for about a year and a half...after seeing how city elves live..let alone what was happening to them by the ok of Loghain...nope...none of them have been able to spare him.

[Ramante]

ejoslin wrote...

Are you sure you're looking in the right place for the love letter? There are three hidden doors when you walk in. The love letter is in a treasure chest IIRC. As soon as you walk in, there's a hidden door on either side (not the one on the left after you go down the stairs, but as soon as you walk in).

I have checked every (hidden) room in that ruin, I got so desperate at one point that I asked Dog in every room to find me something. x.x

ejoslin wrote...
Alistair not getting hardened is weird. Have you finished all conversations with him and is his approval high enough?

I dumped/rejected Alistair after the talk with Goldana and I lost 19 approval, but even after getting his approval back to the amount you need (71/76) still nothing, but I haven't encountered this in my CE playthrough yet so I'm hoping it will be fine this time.

ejoslin wrote...
But not getting Charsen's kiss at the gate but getting a different one is weird -- the regular kiss has a different name. OOOOOOH< but, yeh, if you're getting that AND you're in love with him, make sure you have the most recent version of GateKiss. I think Charsen has different kisses for "in love" and "in a romance" and one of the alpha versions did that to me as well.

I'm sure I picked the wrong one.. I'm not very bright when it comes to mods.

Edit: No fair editing your post.
Shale was with me during the Anvil quest but that was my first main quest so I didn't want to go to Cadash Thaig immediatly (Crystals not good enough), so I left the Deep Roads thinking I would return later.. but the Thaig was no longer available at a later time. I dragged Shale through the Deep Roads but it wasn't working.

Modifié par Ramante, 16 juin 2010 - 04:50 .