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[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

Some new lines of Zevran's that I noticed...

When you ask him about Antiva, if you ask him if he doesn't like Ferelden, he makes the comment that Fereldans don't know the difference between an assassin and a mere killer. He might be trying to justify, but I thought it an interesting comment nonetheless.

Also, upthread someone was asking about the bashing skulls comment, right? HNF got that at the post-coronation, with Zevran at friendly. It's if you ask him if the Crows will come after him. He answers something like, "Eventually. I will stand by and mock them while you bash their skulls. It's the sort of thing our friendship was built on, yes?"

Zevran's dialogs have such good answers.  Even the nasty ones (the ones that cause me to reload) -- amazing.  The voice acting is so good.

And ok, the friendship line at the is different from the love line, though very similar.  Addai67, I'm so glad you're here and willing to test those things!  He says, "Eventually. I will stand by and mock them while you bash their skulls.  Besides, I happen to like you.  Crazy, isn't it?"  I really really like that he emphasizes how much he likes the warden after he falls in love.  That to him is real.  It also shows the difference, I think, between a friendzone and a romanced Zev.  He values the friendship more than anything with a friend.  He values his feelings for the warden more than anything when romanced.

Or am I reading WAY too much into all that?

[Addai]

Here's an action shot from that final battle with Zev in the ancient elven armor.  He's got HNF's back, as usual.

[soignee]

MOAR ZEV THOUGHTS:



What I like about the Zev/Warden dynamic is that it's very much an equal relationship. He is by no means the bedwarmer who happens to be good with daggers; he proves time and time again that out of all the companions, he's on the money with comments and asides, (albeit pragamatically) and happily says his mind to you, and rolls with the punches if they come with a laugh.



With Warden/Alistair, pesky duty gets in the way and even if you pick an option where the two of you remain together, there is always the power shift in the dynamic. There's the notion that one is never as equal as the other due to warden either being more powerful then Alistair, or Alistair being more powerful then the warden. I always feel bad on my Aeducan playthrough as Alistair is pretty much the henpecked doormat, and follows her where she leads; it's written he's happy, but I wonder if he truly is, and wonder how that will play out in the future expansions. If you don't put him on the throne, does he regret it, I wonder...

[jenovan]

Sabriana wrote...

That's an idea, Jenovan. Your
suggestion and snoop around the mod threads a bit. Perhaps it is that
easy. Can't hurt to sniff around and/or ask.
Good luck with Jowan. I
hope it works, because I don't think sending the poor dude back to the
Chantry is merciful in any way, shape, or form.

I'd look into the modding if I wasn't up to my ears in cleaning house this week.   (guest coming, wheee)  Of course I'd soooo much rather be playing DA, or figuring out that mod, or making my HNF, or Dalish girl (both Zevran romances, of course!)... sigh, responsibilities. ;D

Ramante wrote...
I replayed that massage conversation 4 times today... I simply melt when Zevran says 'Then why are we still talking?'.  o.o'

Seriously.  His voice when he says that... gah. XD

Addai67 wrote...
Did you see my screenshot up above?    I decided to put him in it for the final battle with my HNF character and I agree, I think he looks very handsome in it.  We were a handsome bunch, in fact, my character in Varathorn's armor, Alistair in Cailan's armor and, well, Morrigan in her witch robes (but there is nothing to be done about mage's clothing in the game).

Yeah!   I always thought that armor was interesting because it wasn't heavy, it never occured to me to put a rogue in it   I do get a liiittle tired of the leather armors in the game, that's a nice change. ;D

(agreed on the mage robes... sigh.)


Right, about Jowan.. I did some exploring on both of my characters and still couldn't work out a way to free the poor guy. :/  Even if you make him go to the Fade (looool Irving did NOT like that XD).   I put some of what I found here on my blog (wow this thing is handy), but given how conditional everything in this game is, I wouldn't be surprised if I'd done something somewhere that totally prevented me from releasing him.  Yikes!   I agree with Sabriana, leaving him to the Circle and/or the Templars isn't much of a mercy :/

(I should prooobably go find a Jowan thread.  But I love discussing with you guys! )

[ejoslin]

soignee wrote...

MOAR ZEV THOUGHTS:

What I like about the Zev/Warden dynamic is that it's very much an equal relationship. He is by no means the bedwarmer who happens to be good with daggers; he proves time and time again that out of all the companions, he's on the money with comments and asides, (albeit pragamatically) and happily says his mind to you, and rolls with the punches if they come with a laugh.

With Warden/Alistair, pesky duty gets in the way and even if you pick an option where the two of you remain together, there is always the power shift in the dynamic. There's the notion that one is never as equal as the other due to warden either being more powerful then Alistair, or Alistair being more powerful then the warden. I always feel bad on my Aeducan playthrough as Alistair is pretty much the henpecked doormat, and follows her where she leads; it's written he's happy, but I wonder if he truly is, and wonder how that will play out in the future expansions. If you don't put him on the throne, does he regret it, I wonder...

yes yes yes yes yes!  LOL.  That's one of my favorite contrasts to the two relationships.  Zevran really IS the only companion who comes off as the Warden's equal, and Alistair is most definitely subservient to her.  I think this is very apparent in the HNF ending when you marry him for political reasons only.  Zevran is not happy about the wedding, wants to discuss it at a later date, but obviously comes to terms with it.  However, Alistair is very happy to let his new bride rule AND act as she pleases.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 février 2010 - 07:19 .

[SurelyForth]

My take on Alistair is that he's happy letting the Warden lead and letting him/her be the hero because he's not the sort of person who is entirely comfortable being It and even hardened he will defer to the PC if he/she is his Chancellor. When he wants to be king, his focus is on doing good rather than being powerful, and it seems he has the same philosophy towards being a Warden- there's evil in the world and Wardens can fight it. That's what he wants to do. He doesn't need a special title, designation, or to be holding the reigns- as long as he's fighting the good fight and you're not being a total jerk, power struggles should not enter the picture.



I can see his being King being more of a problem for the Warden-Commander PC than the PC being Warden-Commander would be for just plain Warden Alistair. If that makes any sense.



On Zevran: I actually cut him lose after the Taliesen fight with my last character and immediately regretted the decision. Even though he and that PC weren't close, and she would definitely understand his desire for freedom, it felt so strange to think that they wouldn't end the game together as partners is morally ambiguous business. I'll romance him again soon, but I really appreciate him in the role as companion so very much.

[Ramante]

jenovan wrote...

Ramante wrote...
I replayed that massage conversation 4 times today... I simply melt when Zevran says 'Then why are we still talking?'.  o.o'

Seriously.  His voice when he says that... gah. XD

First time romancing Zevran, can't help it.

I like the fact that that line comes in two ways. One when you just agree, the other is more interesting. Asking him if he is sure and you finally respond that 'you are of mind' (something like that, what the hell does it mean? Seriously, I don't get it. It makes no sense when I translate it in Dutch) he says it and he kisses you. I always go with the second option.

[ejoslin]

SurelyForth wrote...

My take on Alistair is that he's happy letting the Warden lead and letting him/her be the hero because he's not the sort of person who is entirely comfortable being It and even hardened he will defer to the PC if he/she is his Chancellor. When he wants to be king, his focus is on doing good rather than being powerful, and it seems he has the same philosophy towards being a Warden- there's evil in the world and Wardens can fight it. That's what he wants to do. He doesn't need a special title, designation, or to be holding the reigns- as long as he's fighting the good fight and you're not being a total jerk, power struggles should not enter the picture.

I can see his being King being more of a problem for the Warden-Commander PC than the PC being Warden-Commander would be for just plain Warden Alistair. If that makes any sense.

On Zevran: I actually cut him lose after the Taliesen fight with my last character and immediately regretted the decision. Even though he and that PC weren't close, and she would definitely understand his desire for freedom, it felt so strange to think that they wouldn't end the game together as partners is morally ambiguous business. I'll romance him again soon, but I really appreciate him in the role as companion so very much.

Zevran doesn't ask to leave if being romanced -- in fact, if you force him to say it, he asks to stay. 

I don't see Alistair as being king any problem for the Warden -- he'll still defer to her, but if she wanted to run the kingdom, she'd be chancellor anyway.  As his princess-consort, she is still considered the ruler (it is spelled out VERY plainly if it's a political match).

This is not necessarily a bad thing, though.  But I never get the feeling that Alistair is the warden's equal.  I think that may be part of the reason Arl Eamon is kind of cool to the Warden, especially if the warden chooses to marry Alistair.  He understands the influence that the warden has over Alistair.

[ejoslin]

Ramante wrote...

jenovan wrote...

Ramante wrote...
I replayed that massage conversation 4 times today... I simply melt when Zevran says 'Then why are we still talking?'.  o.o'

Seriously.  His voice when he says that... gah. XD

First time romancing Zevran, can't help it.

I like the fact that that line comes in two ways. One when you just agree, the other is more interesting. Asking him if he is sure and you finally respond that 'you are of mind' (something like that, what the hell does it mean? Seriously, I don't get it. It makes no sense when I translate it in Dutch) he says it and he kisses you. I always go with the second option.

Oh, this is a translation thing.  He says, "If you are not of a like mind," which just means, "if you don't think the same."  You can't translate it literally because, well, "like mind" means in agreement actually.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 février 2010 - 07:41 .

[soignee]

SurelyForth wrote...

My take on Alistair is that he's happy letting the Warden lead and letting him/her be the hero because he's not the sort of person who is entirely comfortable being It and even hardened he will defer to the PC if he/she is his Chancellor. When he wants to be king, his focus is on doing good rather than being powerful, and it seems he has the same philosophy towards being a Warden- there's evil in the world and Wardens can fight it. That's what he wants to do. He doesn't need a special title, designation, or to be holding the reigns- as long as he's fighting the good fight and you're not being a total jerk, power struggles should not enter the picture.

I can see his being King being more of a problem for the Warden-Commander PC than the PC being Warden-Commander would be for just plain Warden Alistair. If that makes any sense.

Oh man, I am too jaded and cynical to catch that. Sometimes I loathe it when people have to point out the goodness in situations, as I feel like inept social idiot too used to seeing only the bad ><;

BUT! I will say, Alistair is not a natural leader, hardened or not. But then, I suppose that seek power never know what to do with it anyway.

Modifié par soignee, 21 février 2010 - 07:44 .

[ejoslin]

soignee wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

My take on Alistair is that he's happy letting the Warden lead and letting him/her be the hero because he's not the sort of person who is entirely comfortable being It and even hardened he will defer to the PC if he/she is his Chancellor. When he wants to be king, his focus is on doing good rather than being powerful, and it seems he has the same philosophy towards being a Warden- there's evil in the world and Wardens can fight it. That's what he wants to do. He doesn't need a special title, designation, or to be holding the reigns- as long as he's fighting the good fight and you're not being a total jerk, power struggles should not enter the picture.

I can see his being King being more of a problem for the Warden-Commander PC than the PC being Warden-Commander would be for just plain Warden Alistair. If that makes any sense.

Oh man, I am too jaded and cynical to catch that. Sometimes I loathe it when people have to point out the goodness in situations, as I feel like inept social idiot too used to seeing only the bad ><;

I would like to add this -- even if you ARE a total jerk to Alistair, maybe especially, he will still follow the warden.  In fact, if Alistair hates your warden, you will never hear about his sister, so you will never do his personal quest, so he will never be hardened, so if you become chancellor he is nothing but your puppet.

Yes, I've done this.  I know it for a fact.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 février 2010 - 07:43 .

[Ramante]

ejoslin wrote...

Ramante wrote...

jenovan wrote...

Ramante wrote...
I replayed that massage conversation 4 times today... I simply melt when Zevran says 'Then why are we still talking?'.  o.o'

Seriously.  His voice when he says that... gah. XD

First time romancing Zevran, can't help it.

I like the fact that that line comes in two ways. One when you just agree, the other is more interesting. Asking him if he is sure and you finally respond that 'you are of mind' (something like that, what the hell does it mean? Seriously, I don't get it. It makes no sense when I translate it in Dutch) he says it and he kisses you. I always go with the second option.

Oh, this is a translation thing.  He says, "If you are not of a like mind," which just means, "if you don't think the same."  You can't translate it literally because, well, "like mind" means in agreement actually.

I figured it would be something like that but was not sure.. Thanks.
The translation thing is sometimes really annoying, some words I don't know the meaning at all. When Sten told my Warden for the first time that he thought she was callow I had no idea what he was talking about.

After all the screenshots with Zevran in Ancient Elven Armor, I have to decide what armor I'm going to give him in my playthrough... I had kind of decided to give my Warden the Ancient Elven Armor, but Zevran looks really good in it...

[ejoslin]

Ramante wrote...

I figured it would be something like that but was not sure.. Thanks.
The translation thing is sometimes really annoying, some words I don't know the meaning at all. When Sten told my Warden for the first time that he thought she was callow I had no idea what he was talking about.

After all the screenshots with Zevran in Ancient Elven Armor, I have to decide what armor I'm going to give him in my playthrough... I had kind of decided to give my Warden the Ancient Elven Armor, but Zevran looks really good in it...

Heh, i may be wrong and he may just say, "not of a mind" which would actually mean more, "if you're not interested."  But it means pretty much the same thing -- thinking the same way.

I do agree, the ancient elven armor looks hot on him.  A very compelling reason to make him a str/dex rogue this playthrough for sure!

But at least Sten is kind enough to define "callow" for you, right?  I love Sten so much!

[sami jo]

ejoslin wrote...

I would like to add this -- even if you ARE a total jerk to Alistair, maybe especially, he will still follow the warden.  In fact, if Alistair hates your warden, you will never hear about his sister, so you will never do his personal quest, so he will never be hardened, so if you become chancellor he is nothing but your puppet.

Yes, I've done this.  I know it for a fact.

This is what bothered me the most about romancing Allistair.  He is written as a sweet, very good man.  He clearly adores your PC if you romance him.  The problem is that he wants a mom, not a partner.  He desperately wants to belong; so much so that he will allow the PC to walk all over him.  It's kind of heart breaking.  The only happy ending for him is if he is romancing the PC and gets to run off with her to rebuild the GWs. 

All of the NPCs are a bit broken.  It's not as if any of them had a really wonderful past or had much real choice about the course of their lives.  Zevran is certainly just as broken, there is just a good deal more inner strength there.  Allistair is more of the abandoned puppy--sweet, endearing, and well meaning.  Zevran is your partner.  He'll offer his opinion.  He'll challenge your views.  He won't follow along no matter what.  You earn his trust and his loyalty; but even at his most loving, loyal and trusting, he is not your pawn. 

[Ramante]

ejoslin wrote...

Ramante wrote...

I figured it would be something like that but was not sure.. Thanks.
The translation thing is sometimes really annoying, some words I don't know the meaning at all. When Sten told my Warden for the first time that he thought she was callow I had no idea what he was talking about.

After all the screenshots with Zevran in Ancient Elven Armor, I have to decide what armor I'm going to give him in my playthrough... I had kind of decided to give my Warden the Ancient Elven Armor, but Zevran looks really good in it...

Heh, i may be wrong and he may just say, "not of a mind" which would actually mean more, "if you're not interested."  But it means pretty much the same thing -- thinking the same way.

I do agree, the ancient elven armor looks hot on him.  A very compelling reason to make him a str/dex rogue this playthrough for sure!

But at least Sten is kind enough to define "callow" for you, right?  I love Sten so much!

Sten is my favourite non-romancable companion. Since I have some problems with the translations it is real fun to have Sten telling me to speak in common tongue. We seem to have the same problems.
I have romanced Alistair twice, Morrigan is 'in progress' and Zevran is also 'in progress' (100 adore).. and I have to say Zevran is my favourite.

I have decided to dump Leliana as my rogue for Zevran as soon as I have enough money to buy the books to give Zevran some lockpicking skills. That girl is just 'creepy'.

[Addai]

Ramante wrote...

After all the screenshots with Zevran in Ancient Elven Armor, I have to decide what armor I'm going to give him in my playthrough... I had kind of decided to give my Warden the Ancient Elven Armor, but Zevran looks really good in it...

The stats are not that good for regular-game.  It has spirit resistance, though, which makes it perfect for the final battle.  I generally put him in the Chasind Robe.  It is counter-intuitive to think that less armor is better, but the defense bonus plus his dexterity means he just never gets hit.  It also pulls less aggro.  By the time an enemy has figured out he's the deadliest one in the bunch, that target is... well, dead.  Or paralyzed and then dead.  Or stunned then dead.  You get the picture. 

It is a little frustrating at first when you try to re-spec him as a cunning rogue.  It takes a while for him to catch up in the lockpicking and trap-disarming department.  It's a trade-off, however.  He's a better fighter than Leliana, and nicer on the eyes.  So, he comes with me and we deal with the snags.  You could take them both with you, actually- only one warrior is really needed in a party IMO- but I prefer to leave Leliana in camp.

[Ramante]

Addai67 wrote...

Ramante wrote...

After all the screenshots with Zevran in Ancient Elven Armor, I have to decide what armor I'm going to give him in my playthrough... I had kind of decided to give my Warden the Ancient Elven Armor, but Zevran looks really good in it...

The stats are not that good for regular-game.  It has spirit resistance, though, which makes it perfect for the final battle.  I generally put him in the Chasind Robe.  It is counter-intuitive to think that less armor is better, but the defense bonus plus his dexterity means he just never gets hit.  It also pulls less aggro.  By the time an enemy has figured out he's the deadliest one in the bunch, that target is... well, dead.  Or paralyzed and then dead.  Or stunned then dead.  You get the picture. 

It is a little frustrating at first when you try to re-spec him as a cunning rogue.  It takes a while for him to catch up in the lockpicking and trap-disarming department.  It's a trade-off, however.  He's a better fighter than Leliana, and nicer on the eyes.  So, he comes with me and we deal with the snags.  You could take them both with you, actually- only one warrior is really needed in a party IMO- but I prefer to leave Leliana in camp.

My team is always one rogue, two warriors (one tank and Sten (I love Sten)) and one mage. Zev is definetly nicer on the eye and when I select him he doesn't giggle (that always freaks me out). I also think I will like his comments during the alienage and Orzammar. Leliana is always so 'I'm such a good and nice girl'. Unfortunately for her, I like bad boy Zevran.

I know the armor is not that great, but my Warden is an Arcane Warrior, game has been to easy because of that. So I'm going (for a while) with a not-so-great-but-beautiful armor.

[Cuddlezarro]

I do agree, the ancient elven armor looks hot on him. A very compelling reason to make him a str/dex rogue this playthrough for sure!

you dont need to build him as a Str Rogue to get him to wear said armor pump his Str up to 20 and just make up the rest with equipment its not exactly that heavy (I think 24 str is the requirement)

he also looks hot in dalish armor...which is why I turned the felons coat into dalish armor

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 21 février 2010 - 09:15 .

[Addai]

You don't use Sten as your tank? Or is your PC the tank? I like Sten, as well. I'm only just getting some of his dialogues prompted by overhearing his comments, and they're fascinating. Massive approval jumps, too, even if you think during the conversation that it is not going well! He loves talking about his homeland and figuring things out in Ferelden. With the latter, you are helping him do his duty and I think he gives you the big smiley faces because of that. He, Zevran and Oghren seem to be the companions who give you the most "reward" by having them in your party during the action. You'll never get to know them fully just from camp.

I'm running an Arcane Warrior-Blood Mage and currently having the armor problem, too. I will keep her in robes til I get Varathorn's Armor. I don't want her to wear massive, it will just look funny on her small elven body, and the light armors are garbage as is well-known.

Edit:  Ah, I understand since your PC is a mage that you don't have room for 2 rogues.  Same deal with my mage character.  She and Morrigan are the twin sisters of mayhem and destruction, so I round out the party with Zevran and a tank.

Modifié par Addai67, 21 février 2010 - 09:20 .

[Cuddlezarro]

iv only ever used Sten once and I ended up missing some of his special conversations



I did get a laugh where he tells you he stole cookies from a fat kid at lake calenhad

[Cuddlezarro]

EDIT: gah stupid double posts

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 21 février 2010 - 09:25 .

[Ramante]

Addai67 wrote...

You don't use Sten as your tank? Or is your PC the tank? I like Sten, as well. I'm only just getting some of his dialogues prompted by overhearing his comments, and they're fascinating. Massive approval jumps, too, even if you think during the conversation that it is not going well! He loves talking about his homeland and figuring things out in Ferelden. With the latter, you are helping him do his duty and I think he gives you the big smiley faces because of that. He, Zevran and Oghren seem to be the companions who give you the most "reward" by having them in your party during the action. You'll never get to know them fully just from camp.

I'm running an Arcane Warrior-Blood Mage and currently having the armor problem, too. I will keep her in robes til I get Varathorn's Armor. I don't want her to wear massive, it will just look funny on her small elven body, and the light armors are garbage as is well-known.

Edit:  Ah, I understand since your PC is a mage that you don't have room for 2 rogues.  Same deal with my mage character.  She and Morrigan are the twin sisters of mayhem and destruction, so I round out the party with Zevran and a tank.

I always let Sten fight with his own sword. First playthrough I had Alistair as tank, this time I'm going for Shale. (Shale + Sten = priceless). My pc is Arcane Warrior/Spirit Healer so together with Shale she is the tank. Right now she is wearing the Warden Commander outfit but since you can't transfer it to Awakening I want her to wear something else. I also want her to wear the ancient elven armor because it 'fits' with the fact that an ancient elven spirit learns you the arcane warrior specialization. And (third reason) it is one of the few armors who look good with a female player, the boobs stay in place while wearing it.

I absolutely adore Sten and his conversations. I also think he is one of the few companions who actually understands the quest you're on. Wynne acts like she knows what you're doing but it is quite clear she doesn't. Sten also has great conversations with your companions. 

[Cuddlezarro]

heres another random picture of Alexander and Zev admiring Orzammar

[Creature 1]

I have no love for Sten. I fired him in my elf mage's playthrough because I decided he didn't like Sten's attitude towards mages. Never got his sword back, hah!

[soignee]

So I wrote a very short little story about Zevran spinning a tale about an Antivan prostitute here, mostly for the laughs: http://social.biowar...7/index/1358503

The funky formatting and filtering used here meant I had to change it around, but hopefully it's still readable on the forums, despite that.

Modifié par soignee, 21 février 2010 - 11:51 .