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[Sarah1281]

Verly wrote...

My DE's don't feel right sparing Loghain either. After all they are Dalish..at least they have been traveling with with their rag tag group of mostly humans for about a year and a half...after seeing how city elves live..let alone what was happening to them by the ok of Loghain...nope...none of them have been able to spare him.

This isn't about your or anyone else's PC but do you think the Dalish at whole who look down on the city elves and feel that they deserve their hardship for submitting to humans (so basically, like Morrigan on the Circle) would really be upset on behalf of the city elves and their slaver problems? 

[ejoslin]

Gah, I was hoping they would be easy. Dumping and rejecting Alistair makes no difference with the hardening conversation.



The love letter there I didn't find until my fourth or fifth play through which is why I asked. I was looking in the one down the stairs and to the left -- it took me a long time to realize there were the two JUST inside the entrance. I felt silly.



Ah well

[Verly]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Verly wrote...

My DE's don't feel right sparing Loghain either. After all they are Dalish..at least they have been traveling with with their rag tag group of mostly humans for about a year and a half...after seeing how city elves live..let alone what was happening to them by the ok of Loghain...nope...none of them have been able to spare him.

This isn't about your or anyone else's PC but do you think the Dalish at whole who look down on the city elves and feel that they deserve their hardship for submitting to humans (so basically, like Morrigan on the Circle) would really be upset on behalf of the city elves and their slaver problems? 

Part of the Dalish's goal is to have a new place for all elves to go to so they can teach them the old ways. It's known that my DE have never been away from their clain.  She/He has never seen a human city.. so she/he doesn't know what an Alinage is, just what she's/he's heard.  but to see it with her/his own eyes...that makes her/him even more mad at the humans at how they  treat her/his people.

I as a player think back to the origin where one of the clan is teaching a CE how to shoot a bow and how welcomed he was to the clan.    He had some intersting things to say about what he had heard about DEs. so elves on both sides have to put their differeces aside.

[Sannox]

Nilfalasiel wrote...
Lol, we are talking about the same convo, but we seem to be interpreting it very differently. Yes, he does present it as a completely throwaway gift...at first. But if you refuse it once, he insists that you take it, which contradicts his careless presentation of it. Moreover, if you do accept it, he says "it's meant a lot to me (again, contradiction with his previous carelessness), but so have...so has everything you've done." He does care, even if he's refusing to put words onto it. I know that it's meant to be the Warden putting her/his feelings on the line, but she/he doesn't actually say anything about them; to me, it feels like she/he's forcing Zev to make the first move. And for all he knows, she/he could be trying to have her/his cake and eat it: demanding commitment without giving any in return. I've been in situations like that, and I can understand why he'd be upset about it.

Because, to me, he does sound upset, not just frustrated. "You pick up every stray bit of treasure, but you won't take this"; another contradiction. If the gift was really as throwaway as he presented it, he wouldn't have any reason to say it in this tone. His earlier statement that "you can wear it or sell it, or anything you like" sounds like the Warden could just toss it in the trash, and he wouldn't care. But refuse to take it, and suddenly it's not so trivial anymore.

Yes!  I think he does offer it with meaning the first time, even though he struggles to say it.  But he does say it in his own way, which the warden can accept or not.  I can see why he gets frustrated when the warden won't accept it.  I think he is frustrated, but I hear him as upset too.  

I take the 'don't get the wrong idea' line to mean that he's not asking anything of the warden, other than to accept it.   At this point (and this is just my view, which I know not everybody agrees with) he has no idea if the warden feels the same way or not.    He doesn't mean that he doesn't care what the warden does with it - only that he's putting no pressure on the warden to treasure it.   He asks for nothing back. 

If you accept, he is so grateful and does say that he has no better way to say it.   There's also a big approval jump, which you don't get otherwise.  And later, he explains why he had no better way to say it. 

Modifié par Sannox, 16 juin 2010 - 05:22 .

[Sannox]

I let Alistair kill Loghain on my first playthrough and regretted it!

My dwarf really wanted to get on with defeating the Blight and the whole business seemed to be getting in the way.   Alistair made it clear that he didn't want to be king.  My dwarf talked to Anora, who wasn't particuarly likeable but seemed to have her head screwed on right (she reminded me of a cross between Thatcher and Diana!), and I felt we could leave her in charge while we got on with things.  Alistair was annoyed that my dwarf even suggested supporting her.  There's a chance to ask about Loghain when you talk to Anora, and by this time, my dwarf really wanted to talk to him and have it out.  She kept hearing that he'd lost his marbles, but at the Landsmeet he seemed to be talking sense, if tired.  Zevran duelled him, and I wanted to spare him, but felt my character owed Alistair one for dumping him (great reason, I know).    Watching Alistair slaughter him in front of his daughter once was enough.   Never again.   

It wasn't just a case of needing all the grey wardens we could get, or even just avoiding executing him in such a barbaric way.  My characters had never led armies before - Loghain had.  I felt we needed that expertise for the final battle.  

ETA: Loghain reminds me of those strong leaders who are used then tossed aside - Lawrence of Arabia, Thatcher, etc. (and I hated Thatcher - just saying.).  It seems that somebody who was more easy to manipulate was more useful  (Alistair).

Modifié par Sannox, 16 juin 2010 - 05:16 .

[MorGothic]

Ramante wrote...

I stopped looking in the Ali-thread after MG found a disturbing conversation about cows.. it was something like;
Person A: 'How do you call a male cow?'
Person B: 'That would be a bull.'
Person A: 'So a bull is not a seperate species?'

I just died a little inside...again.

As for the bugs, I thought I fixed all of them? If you need me to do it again, let me know next time your on, and this time I'll get Zevring etc, which will hopefully stop anything weird happening.

[soignee]

Sannox wrote...

I let Alistair kill Loghain on my first playthrough and regretted it!

My dwarf really wanted to get on with defeating the Blight and the whole business seemed to be getting in the way.   Alistair made it clear that he didn't want to be king.  My dwarf talked to Anora, who wasn't particuarly likeable but seemed to have her head screwed on right (she reminded me of a cross between Thatcher and Diana!)

*snipped some of the post*

ETA: Loghain reminds me of those strong leaders who are used then tossed aside - Lawrence of Arabia, Thatcher, etc. (and I hated Thatcher - just saying.).  It seems that somebody who was more easy to manipulate was more useful  (Alistair).

Hahah I'm glad someone else sees the Anora/Thatcher thing, because that's what my head parsed it as when I first encountered her. THATCHER WITH BUNNNNSSSSS

[Verly]

it's nice to see the Zev thread so busy today. I'm not feeling well so that's why I'm here...what's wrong with the rest of you? you know...that is not usually wrong.



for the lulz

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...
Lol, we are talking about the same convo, but we seem to be interpreting it very differently. Yes, he does present it as a completely throwaway gift...at first. But if you refuse it once, he insists that you take it, which contradicts his careless presentation of it. Moreover, if you do accept it, he says "it's meant a lot to me (again, contradiction with his previous carelessness), but so have...so has everything you've done." He does care, even if he's refusing to put words onto it. I know that it's meant to be the Warden putting her/his feelings on the line, but she/he doesn't actually say anything about them; to me, it feels like she/he's forcing Zev to make the first move. And for all he knows, she/he could be trying to have her/his cake and eat it: demanding commitment without giving any in return. I've been in situations like that, and I can understand why he'd be upset about it.

Because, to me, he does sound upset, not just frustrated. "You pick up every stray bit of treasure, but you won't take this"; another contradiction. If the gift was really as throwaway as he presented it, he wouldn't have any reason to say it in this tone. His earlier statement that "you can wear it or sell it, or anything you like" sounds like the Warden could just toss it in the trash, and he wouldn't care. But refuse to take it, and suddenly it's not so trivial anymore.

Yes!  I think he does offer it with meaning the first time, even though he struggles to say it.  But he does say it in his own way, which the warden can accept or not.  I can see why he gets frustrated when the warden won't accept it.  I think he is frustrated, but I hear him as upset too.  

I take the 'don't get the wrong idea' line to mean that he's not asking anything of the warden, other than to accept it.   At this point (and this is just my view, which I know not everybody agrees with) he has no idea if the warden feels the same way or not.    He doesn't mean that he doesn't care what he warden does with it - only that he's putting no pressure on the warden to treasure it.   He asks for nothing back. 

If you accept, he is so grateful and does say that he has no better way to say it.   There's also a big approval jump, which you don't get otherwise.  And later, he explains why he had no better way to say it. 

Why can't I resist this argument?

First of all, his "don't get the wrong idea" is in response to at least one answer being, "Thank you Zevran, it's beautiful!"  This is a thrilled warden getting a gift, not a reticent one hiding her feelings.  He backpedals there and tells her not to get the wrong idea.

No one argues about the meaning of the earring.  And he may not mean it when he says that he doesn't care what s/he does with the earring (he obviously is lying) but it remains that he DOES say that, and continues to say that, and continues to trivialize the gift, and refuses, even when the warden is asking directly ("so... not a token of affection?") to acknowledge what the gift actually means.  

The approval there, btw, is not a high approval gain (I'm not sure that this matters).  It's a low approval gain -- there are a few in that conversation.  However, you get a moderate disapproval for rejecting the earring if it doesn't mean anything, and a high disapproval if you reject it because you don't want it.

Here's how the conversation goes for me -- this may be why people see it differently, because it can go several ways:

Zevran: Here... it seems an appropriate moment to give you this. (warm)
Warden: Oh? Will that mean we're married in Antiva? (If PC is female) SET: APP_ZEVRAN_INC_VLOW
Zevran: <desc>Laughs</desc> Let's hope not! (amused)
Zevran: I acquired it on my very first job for the Crows. A Rivaini merchant prince, and he was wearing a single, jeweled earring when I killed him. In fact, that's about all he was wearing.
Zevran: I thought it was beautiful and took it to mark the occasion. I've kept it since... and I'd like you to have it. (it's no big thing, just a simple gift)
Warden: Thank you, Zevran. It's so beautiful! (If PC is female) SET: APP_ZEVRAN_INC_med
Zevran: Don't get the wrong idea about it. You killed Taliesen. As far as the Crows will be concerned, I died with him. That means I'm free, at least for now.  (it's no big thing, just a simple gift)
Zevran: Feel free to sell it, or wear it... or whatever you'd like. It's really the least I could give you in return. (it's no big thing, just a simple gift)
Warden: So... not a token of affection, then?
Zevran: I... look, just... just take it. (taken off guard -- he's not used to discussing his feelings)
Zevran: It's meant a lot to me, but so have... so has what you've done. Please, take it. (awkward, embarassed)
Warden: I'll only take it if it means something. SET: APP_ZEVRAN_DEC_MED
Zevran: You are a very frustrating woman to deal with, do you know that? (exasperated)
Zevran: We pick up every other bit of treasure we come across, but not this. You don't want the earring? You don't get the earring. Very simple. (he gives up in frustration) SET: APP_ZEVRAN_PLAYER_REFUSED_EARRING

To me, this conversation doesn't look like the warden is pushing Zevran away -- I genuinely found this hurtful.  The warden was trying to get the relationship acknowledged and Zevran is just refusing.  He slips and almost does, but catches himself in time.  He doesn't want to say his feelings, but it should be beyond that.

There is no question that he's lying about what the gift means.  But he IS lying.  The warden is being honest -- she was delighted to get it until he started telling her how it meant nothing.

I think I see Zevran as WAY more confident than you do, though.  I don't think he was ever full of self doubt over the warden's feelings.  I think his doubts were coming from his views on love, and the ramifications of being in love.

[Nilfalasiel]

ejoslin wrote...

The earring can be refused for two reasons there -- one with the warden stating straight out that they don't want it, and the other with the warden saying they'll only take it if it means something.  Saying you'll take it if it means something I think sounds like the warden IS asking for a commitment, at least it does to me.  The warden is saying, "I want this to be more."

The few times you can see Zevran angry in the game, he doesn't sound like he does at the end of that conversation.  He is upset, but what is really so upsetting about someone saying to you, "I will take it only if it means something"?  My warden doesn't want it to "wear or sell" or to treat it as a piece of treasure -- she wants a piece of jewelry coming from the man she loves to be something that represents that.

I understand this, and this is how I perceive it from the Warden's perspective as well. But switch over to Zev's perspective and try to see it from his point of view. Assuming the Warden says the exact lines that appear on the screen and nothing more, there's nothing in that conversation to confirm her/his feelings. Yes, she/he's asking for commitment, I'm not denying that. But that doesn't automatically mean offering commitment in return. I've successfully done just that in the past (not proud of it, btw), so maybe it's my personal experience talking, but the Warden's position at that particular moment can certainly be interpreted in that way. She/he asks "I want more" without saying or even implying "I'm ready to give more as well". She/he might perfectly well be willing to give more (in fact, she/he shows as much during the second convo), but as long as she/he doesn't say it, Zev can't be certain of it. So the fact that she/he's trying to force a confession from him would irritate him even more than it normally would.

Edit: See, I didn't pick the "thank you, it's beautiful" answer, so my Warden wasn't acknowledging anything at all. Besides, even if you do pick it, all it's saying is exactly that: the earring is beautiful. There's no further indication of feeling behind it. As for "does that mean we're married in Antiva?" that can just be interpreted as a sarcastic comment from a non-committal Warden, and Zev responds to it in a non-committal way. I'm not saying your interpretation is wrong, but simply that there's something to be said for a different perception of the situation as well, with the Warden in a slightly more dominant position. Not that the Warden is necessarily consciously trying to be dominating, only more guarded with her/his feelings. But to Zev, that may come across as exacting or peevish.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 16 juin 2010 - 05:42 .

[Herr Uhl]

MorGothic wrote...

Ramante wrote...

I stopped looking in the Ali-thread after MG found a disturbing conversation about cows.. it was something like;
Person A: 'How do you call a male cow?'
Person B: 'That would be a bull.'
Person A: 'So a bull is not a seperate species?'

I just died a little inside...again.

...really?

[ejoslin]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The earring can be refused for two reasons there -- one with the warden stating straight out that they don't want it, and the other with the warden saying they'll only take it if it means something.  Saying you'll take it if it means something I think sounds like the warden IS asking for a commitment, at least it does to me.  The warden is saying, "I want this to be more."

The few times you can see Zevran angry in the game, he doesn't sound like he does at the end of that conversation.  He is upset, but what is really so upsetting about someone saying to you, "I will take it only if it means something"?  My warden doesn't want it to "wear or sell" or to treat it as a piece of treasure -- she wants a piece of jewelry coming from the man she loves to be something that represents that.

I understand this, and this is how I perceive it from the Warden's perspective as well. But switch over to Zev's perspective and try to see it from his point of view. Assuming the Warden says the exact lines that appear on the screen and nothing more, there's nothing in that conversation to confirm her/his feelings. Yes, she/he's asking for commitment, I'm not denying that. But that doesn't automatically mean offering commitment in return. I've successfully done just that in the past (not proud of it, btw), so maybe it's my personal experience talking, but the Warden's position at that particular moment can certainly be interpreted in that way. She/he asks "I want more" without saying or even implying "I'm ready to give more as well". She/he might perfectly well be willing to give more (in fact, she/he shows as much during the second convo), but as long as she/he doesn't say it, Zev can't be certain of it. So the fact that she/he's trying to force a confession from him would irritate him even more than it normally would.

I guess I just don't see him having the same doubts that you do.  I mean, I see it if you're telling him you don't want it (and you CAN go that way) but when you're telling him you think it's beautiful, there's not the same reason to backpedal there unless he wants to make SURE the warden doesn't see it for what it is.

The conversation can go where the warden is just telling him, no, I don't want it, keep it, whatever.  In that case, it makes sense that Zevran doubts what the warden feels.  And that would be the reason why he tries to tell the warden it really DOESN'T mean anything.  But if the warden is thanking him, telling him it's beautiful (or a fine gift) and is genuinely happy to receive it (rather than being uncomfortable), yeh, it sounds more like Zevran doesn't want the warden to attach meaning because he doesn't want to acknowledge his feelings.

But I still think if you accept it, you're letting him know you're fine keeping it casual and things can remain unspoken.  Again, I genuinely found that whole conversation hurtful.  They were lovers, they were friends, they were all sorts of things and they needed to move beyond the games.

[ejoslin]

Hmmmm, I wonder if I should start making countless threads demanding a Zevran wedding! I'll title it:

Subject: I want to see my engagement acknowledged!

Then I'll go on to say:

Ok, I jumped through all sorts of hoops and went through some heartache just so I could get the proposal from Zevran and there was NOTHING in the end about it. Is it too much to ask to have a wedding?

Heh, I wonder how quickly I'd get a bunch of hate from a certain segment of Zevran haters I think I'm not actually in the mood for the type of vitriol I would receive.

Edit: but the subject would certainly pull people in I'm sure!

Second edit: This is meant to be light.  I am not trying to imply my way of playing is better than anyone else's 

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 juin 2010 - 05:52 .

[soignee]

WHERE IS MY WEDDING I DEMAND A WEDDING I WANT A CAKE WITH OGHREN COMING OUT OF IT AND A PRETTY DRESS >:|

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
But I still think if you accept it, you're letting him know you're fine keeping it casual and things can remain unspoken.  Again, I genuinely found that whole conversation hurtful.  They were lovers, they were friends, they were all sorts of things and they needed to move beyond the games.

I don't really want into this discussion again (although it's always interesting), I just feel need to point that this is where our interpretations differ.
I interpret this as the Warden accepts the earring because they know what he means by the gift and don't want/need to make him do another explanation/proposal. That doesn't translate to me as Warden is okay with casual relationship. It's silently acknowledged as something more and sealed by the gift. 

Though I understand your side very well and I see why would anyone reject the first offer. And in similar IRL situation this solution might be wiser in many cases.

Modifié par Minaleth, 16 juin 2010 - 06:02 .

[ejoslin]

YES! Alistair is not the only one who proposes! Oh, wait...

[Ramante]

soignee wrote...

WHERE IS MY WEDDING I DEMAND A WEDDING I WANT A CAKE WITH OGHREN COMING OUT OF IT AND A PRETTY DRESS >:|

Zevran says a lot of things and then it never happens. *coughs* massage *coughs* 

@ejoslin, but I really want a wedding. o.o

[Verly]

You keep Oghren..I'll take Zev

[Minaleth]

soignee wrote...

WHERE IS MY WEDDING I DEMAND A WEDDING I WANT A CAKE WITH OGHREN COMING OUT OF IT AND A PRETTY DRESS >:|

Oh noes! I see tipsy Missa in a wedding dress dancing with Sten ... and 5 minutes later doing something really naughty just over the corner with her newlywed Zevran O.O Btw, do the guests have to eat the cake directly from Oghren?

[tmp7704]

Ramante wrote...

Zevran says a lot of things and then it never happens. *coughs* massage *coughs* 

As i understand it he does do the massage just err, of the insides rather than outsides..?

[ejoslin]

Mina, I think part of the problem is the writing is a bit awkward too. There's only so much you can say with 60 characters. And since his responses are the same whether you're pushing him away or genuinely happy.



It's obvious that the warden does attach meaning to the earring at first -- and Zevran tells the warden not to attach that meaning to it. When I refused it for the first time, I had no clue that there was an option for it being a proposal the second time -- I also didn't realize there was more to the romance. The refusal was based in him refusing to let you put any meaning onto it. After what my character when through with Alistair, there was no way I was going to go through it again with Zevran. If he wasn't going to say it, I wasn't going to play.



Fabulous ending I say! So sweet and unexpected. So I suppose that clouds my vision

[Sannox]

ejoslin wrote...
Why can't I resist this argument?

First of all, his "don't get the wrong idea" is in response to at least one answer being, "Thank you Zevran, it's beautiful!"  This is a thrilled warden getting a gift, not a reticent one hiding her feelings.  He backpedals there and tells her not to get the wrong idea.

No one argues about the meaning of the earring.  And he may not mean it when he says that he doesn't care what s/he does with the earring (he obviously is lying) but it remains that he DOES say that, and continues to say that, and continues to trivialize the gift, and refuses, even when the warden is asking directly ("so... not a token of affection?") to acknowledge what the gift actually means.  

The approval there, btw, is not a high approval gain (I'm not sure that this matters).  It's a low approval gain -- there are a few in that conversation.  However, you get a moderate disapproval for rejecting the earring if it doesn't mean anything, and a high disapproval if you reject it because you don't want it.

Here's how the conversation goes for me -- this may be why people see it differently, because it can go several ways:

Zevran: Here... it seems an appropriate moment to give you this. (warm)
Warden: Oh? Will that mean we're married in Antiva? (If PC is female) SET: APP_ZEVRAN_INC_VLOW
Zevran: Laughs Let's hope not! (amused)
Zevran: I acquired it on my very first job for the Crows. A Rivaini merchant prince, and he was wearing a single, jeweled earring when I killed him. In fact, that's about all he was wearing.
Zevran: I thought it was beautiful and took it to mark the occasion. I've kept it since... and I'd like you to have it. (it's no big thing, just a simple gift)
Warden: Thank you, Zevran. It's so beautiful! (If PC is female) SET: APP_ZEVRAN_INC_med
Zevran: Don't get the wrong idea about it. You killed Taliesen. As far as the Crows will be concerned, I died with him. That means I'm free, at least for now.  (it's no big thing, just a simple gift)
Zevran: Feel free to sell it, or wear it... or whatever you'd like. It's really the least I could give you in return. (it's no big thing, just a simple gift)
Warden: So... not a token of affection, then?
Zevran: I... look, just... just take it. (taken off guard -- he's not used to discussing his feelings)
Zevran: It's meant a lot to me, but so have... so has what you've done. Please, take it. (awkward, embarassed)
Warden: I'll only take it if it means something. SET: APP_ZEVRAN_DEC_MED
Zevran: You are a very frustrating woman to deal with, do you know that? (exasperated)
Zevran: We pick up every other bit of treasure we come across, but not this. You don't want the earring? You don't get the earring. Very simple. (he gives up in frustration) SET: APP_ZEVRAN_PLAYER_REFUSED_EARRING

To me, this conversation doesn't look like the warden is pushing Zevran away -- I genuinely found this hurtful.  The warden was trying to get the relationship acknowledged and Zevran is just refusing.  He slips and almost does, but catches himself in time.  He doesn't want to say his feelings, but it should be beyond that.

There is no question that he's lying about what the gift means.  But he IS lying.  The warden is being honest -- she was delighted to get it until he started telling her how it meant nothing.

I think I see Zevran as WAY more confident than you do, though.  I don't think he was ever full of self doubt over the warden's feelings.  I think his doubts were coming from his views on love, and the ramifications of being in love.

It's not so much self doubt (he has been told he's loved before, at least) as just genuinely not knowing what the warden feels, I think.   That's as well as his views on love, which he hasn't quite got round to thinking properly about yet.  (At that point a warden who is in love has probably given exactly the same responses to Zevran as one who just likes having him around). 

The 'don't get the wrong idea about it' does seem to be about not demanding, and he goes on to explain that he's grateful - but depending on the dialogue options, he makes it clear that he's not just giving it to say thank you.   There's more to it than that for him.  But there doesn't need to be more to it for the warden, if they don't want there to be.

He doesn't say that he doesn't care what the warden does with the earring.   He's just saying that it's up to the warden what they do. (It does seem exactly the sort of thing that somebody might say if they wanted to give something special to somebody but know what they felt and didn't want them to feel obligated).  

I'm not sure what counts as a big approval gain.   I worked it out as a difference of 16 points between refusing and accepting - not as big as the approval for the first tent time, for instance, but it still seems to be a good difference.   The difference was less if the warden initially accepted the earring, then rejected it (7).  (And my crude calculations may be wrong!).  

Of course, if he wanted to hide his feelings completely, he didn't need to offer the earring at all.  The gift is his way of saying what he feels to some extent (I have no better way to say it), and the warden can take that or leave it, I suppose (or genuinely miss the significance of it).  (ETA: Although I suppose you don't get that line if you refuse it! So it's not so obvious).

I agree with Nilfalasiel that Zevran's actually a lot more forthcoming than the warden at that point.

Modifié par Sannox, 16 juin 2010 - 06:10 .

[ejoslin]

Ramante wrote...

soignee wrote...

WHERE IS MY WEDDING I DEMAND A WEDDING I WANT A CAKE WITH OGHREN COMING OUT OF IT AND A PRETTY DRESS >:|

Zevran says a lot of things and then it never happens. *coughs* massage *coughs* 

@ejoslin, but I really want a wedding. o.o

Oh, hmmmmm, are we sure there wasn't a massage?  I would scream if any of that sexytime was taken up with the foreplay!

Is it my bias, or does Zevran have the best sexytimes in the vanilla game?

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
Mina, I think part of the problem is the writing is a bit awkward too. There's only so much you can say with 60 characters. And since his responses are the same whether you're pushing him away or genuinely happy. 

Oh yes, I do agree.
I bet for many Wardens it would be appropriate to sort out the situation with some more straightforward  speech that would probably make Zev admit how things really are.

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

To be fair, most of the Ali Fans are decent and reasonable. There are a couple (I won't name names) who are either self-appointed moderators or The Knowers Of All Truths and are quite vocal. But most aren't like that.

Edit: Me, I can't quite figure out why people get that wound up over a single player game. It's like the trolls we get in here who think people will be upset if they kill Zevran in their game.  Ummm, no.  He's a fictional character with a great story.  But neither Zevran nor Alistair REALLY care if someone kills them, betrays them, whatever.  It's part of what makes the story so interesting, all the different ways you can play the warden and the different reactions you get from your companions.

I resemble that.    I'm opinionated about Loghain because I have a strong opinion about his character in regards to my own gameplay, but could give a flying f*ck how other people play their game.  I figure we're in a forum, so people can exchange opinions in a civil manner and everyone gets their say, and to each his own and all that good crap.

Now, on to why I really came in here (I do lurk on occasion):  I am replaying HNF's game, and she is good friends with Zevran so I was paying attention to the dialogues with him last night and have a question to run by the Zevranites.  When he talks about the Antivan boots, he says he was planning to buy them when he got back.  But we know he never planned to get back.  Why does he tell the Warden that?  Is he trying to throw you off the trail because he's not ready to admit he was on a suicide mission?  Or did he think that about the boots because at heart he's a survivor/ optimist and it was a habit to think about the future?