35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Cuddlezarro]

well if you want to play as a dalish mage there IS a mod that allows you to pick mage as your class and play as a dalish...



also here you go pics of the "sleezy heartless assassin" pleading for the circle mages lives

[Raiynsong]

I would hesitate to bind a "single emotion" spirit to a golem. Wouldn't taht be like "rage demon" "desire demon". Desire golem would make Zevran's comment in Honnleath make even more sense



The whole dwarf culture is so depressing for me. I mean, the caste system is bad, but I can put up with that. But the Silent Sisters ? What a horrid idea. So making golems out of your thaig I guess makes sense...Though I would have guessed it could have started like a "legion of the dead" alternative. You die to your past either way.

[Cuddlezarro]

I would hesitate to bind a "single emotion" spirit to a golem. Wouldn't taht be like "rage demon" "desire demon". Desire golem would make Zevran's comment in Honnleath make even more sense

I said non sentient both rage demons and desire demons are sentient and like I also said binding demons would be completely stupid considering every in the game that has happened just by dealing with them



whisps are more in line with what I was talking about

[Raiynsong]

So after I posted about Alistair's convo I went back and started flirting with Zevran (I'm such a ****) and got the conversation about "tell me about your past with women" and his comments are really interesting there. He's unabashedly honest about his past with women and with men and how the Crows capitalize on elven beauty, and asks if it bothers me, and I gave a noncommittal answer, and his reply was "well, like a lot of my past, there are some things I'm not proud of" or something to that effect. I suppose if you wanted to, you could read that line as "hey I was a **** in my past but I _could_ commit to the right person" In other words, he is sensing the warden isn't asking about sex so much as about relationships, and he answers with enough latitude that if you were looking for an answer you could find it there. Assassin finesse as usual.

[Cuddlezarro]

men dont get the "past with women" conversation we get the "so how long have you been gay" talk

not only does he have some amusing comments that women dont get(hmmm zev about tight leather clothing...), his response to you asking "define open mindedness" is great, really lays down his feelings on the matter about your relationship with him

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 23 février 2010 - 05:43 .

[Raiynsong]

@ Cuddlezero wow, just refreshed and noticed the Zevran pleading for the mages conversation. What a powerful dialog. (I have never seen that as all my chars want to save the mages. I might have to play a char that doesn't like them once. just to see that.)



Well it's a separate origin story I'd like so that mod wouldn't really help. I can probably backstory my next mage as one who escaped being put in the tower of mages until she was, say, a teenager, so she knows life outside and has no real loyalty to the Circle itself, tho she does seem to like Irving. That way helping Jowan early on makes sense and wanting to join the Wardens and escape the Circle ALSO makes sense. And then she can fight with Wynne all the time.

[ejoslin]

@ Raiynsong, if you take different dialog answers, he also will say that he's "on a new path, one that has been many new things." Since it is a romance dialog, I think that it is about his relationship with the warden, and is along the lines of what you're saying. The line is, though, that you're referring to, "I regret many more things then the men and women I have been with, and if that is more than you can bear, it's good we know now." I always took that to mean that he did have regrets about many of his past actions, but not the people he had sex with for pleasure. But I like the way you're reading it. Especially if you have both those lines together, it can show that he's admitting his feelings really are growing, and that he feels it's a good thing.

Gah, just when I thought there was nothing more for me to squee about!

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 février 2010 - 05:47 .

[Cuddlezarro]

@ Cuddlezero wow, just refreshed and noticed the Zevran pleading for the mages conversation. What a powerful dialog. (I have never seen that as all my chars want to save the mages. I might have to play a char that doesn't like them once. just to see that.)

I reloaded after I took pics of that conversation, my guys a pragmatist but that doesnt mean he goes around murdering entire groups of people just because he can plus he feels sympathy for the mages...and aint a chantry humper either (dear Alex pissed off mother mallow(yeah i know I spelled her name wrong) in the origin by saying he didnt believe in that crap)

[Cuddlezarro]

Gah, just when I thought there was nothing more for me to squee about!

oh theres always plenty for you to squee about zev

for instance this (yes I know iv already posted this before but we have gained new members since then) and now that i think about it...I like to think that dialogue in the screenie below is aimed at Wynn and her evil death glares and judgemental attitude towards us




edited some stuff in

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 23 février 2010 - 05:52 .

[EccentricSage]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

No.  Why?  If you are going to point out that killing an animal for food is against it's will, then you missunderstand my argument to begin with. 

how is binding a nonsentiant spirit that cant even feel anything beyond possibly a single emotion to a hunk of stone more amoral than mass murdering animals (which are othen raised in ****** poor conditions) to eat

animals have feelings but the codex points out there are many spirits that are just puffs of a single emotions that cant even think (whisps are a perfect example)

theres a reason I pointed out non sentiant spirits not stuff like the valor spirits or Demons...but as we learn in the game nothing good can come from dealing with demons in any way (and Im betting the inerfnal golem in Awakening is a demon bound golem)

BTW no im not a vegetarian/vegan either before any one calls me one

Oh!   I wouldn't realy take the codex as anything more than writings of people of that world who could also be errant.  I guess I feal strongly about it because I am an Occultist IRL and people are very ignorant of the spirit world IRL as well.  And when I say 'people, I am including myself amongst the ignorant, not placing myself above, mind you.  Besides, who knows what important role these spirits might actually have in the grand scheme of things in the Fade.  It falls into the catagory of 'things I doubt anyone understands well enough to make adequetly informed decisions about'.

I definetly would worry that spirits who do have a will and consiousness would be trapped as well... It sounds like a realy tricky situation.  I think I remember it being said that spirits of the Fade are content with the Fade and do not wish to experience the living world, unlike the Demons.

On a completely random side note, because I love talking to people here...
I dislike the idea of demons being evil.  I hope there will be more deapth explored in reguards to their kind as well as 'the Old Gods'.  I really do hate myself a good Christian alagory for the obvious reasons.  I'll tell you, as an occultist, I find that even lore about demons in the real world is solely colored by the Abramic religions lore... in ancient texts IRL, demons were not necasarily evil at all.  But it's a point of view rarely explored in western media.  It would be awsome for BioWare to break with tradition in yet another exciting way.

I feal you on the ****** poor conditions animals are kept in nowadays, btw.  : ( 

[Cuddlezarro]

remember in Dragon age there is actually zero difference on a base level between a fade spirit and a demon

demons just happen to be fade spirits made from darker emotions...in truth the whole fade portion of the game is stolen (and toned down) from warhammer 40k in my view

Alternate reality where creatures born of human emotions try to possess a rare group of people born special who draw their fantastical powers from said dimension? and said group of people is oppressed by the government and feared by the populace

granted compared to psykers from 40k Circle mages have it so much better its not even funny

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 23 février 2010 - 06:05 .

[Nonvita]

Thanks for posting the screens, Cuddlezarro, they're really a beautiful scene (that I may never see on my own, so thank you again). I love how Zevran is the only companion who freely admits his advice comes from a biased source, and yet his words, almost invariably, hold much more wisdom and thoughtfulness than those of the other companions. I also love the self doubt in them. Despite all of his confidence, he still seems to question whether his words hold any meaning to others. And yet he continues to speak his mind, rather than simply becoming subservient. It's just such a subtle balance between the cocky, opinionated side and the compassionate, subdued side of him. Maybe I'm a little emotional right now, but I find it incredibly touching.

[Cuddlezarro]

if any one wants I can take screenies of thezevran tries to convince you out of the "help wolves murder the elves" dialogue once I get there (im still doing orzammar at the moment) as well as the conversation you get with him at camp if you do murder them (granted im gonna have to reload after it since its OoC for Alexander to actually go through with that suggestion once zevran opens his mouth)

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 23 février 2010 - 06:23 .

[EccentricSage]

Oh wow... That speech about the mages, and the look on his face... They really should have given the option for you to agree with Zev and change your mind. He speaks so beautifully, yet with such brevity, that you really can't deny the weight and reason of his words. I swear he could melt even the coldest hearts with talk like that. *swoon*



The bit about not judging others based upon what others say is right or wrong... what was the convo about? I'm intrigued about the context. He is just too damn beautiful. *__*





As to the fade spirits...



I see what you mean. But if the demons and spirits aren't distinguished from each other by anything but the nature of their emotions, then one would wonder why demons are sentient while some spirits are said not to be. I would guess scholars simply have had more run ins, then, with the negative ones rather than the positive ones, and thus have not gained more understanding of the positive spirit's will.



Actually, it reminds me of the Astral plain or Etherial plain. ( I fail at diferentiating between the two..) Different levels of existence from our own level, rather than alternate realities. I've seen real spirits and daemons, as well as experienced a level of astral sense where I became nearly detached from my physical level of existence... so based upon first hand experience as well as the combined experience of the few I trust who've also experimented with these matters... I would have to say it's very real. Just that IRL people can't control the forces through it the way they do in games. Would be too much fun. LOL But I suspect the 'other world' in both games were probably influenced by the occult. I'll have to check out Warhammer. It sounds interesting.

[ejoslin]

You can change your mind about the mages -- you just can't say so. You're not locked into killing the mages at that point; you can still save them. However, you ARE locked into killing Wynne if she's in your party.

[Cuddlezarro]

Oh wow... That speech about the mages, and the look on his face... They really should have given the option for you to agree with Zev and change your mind. He speaks so beautifully, yet with such brevity, that you really can't deny the weight and reason of his words. I swear he could melt even the coldest hearts with talk like that. *swoon*

its odd they dont give you the option to back down like they did with the werewolves

The bit about not judging others based upon what others say is right or wrong... what was the convo about? I'm intrigued about the context. He is just too damn beautiful. *__*

its from the "have you always been...(attracted to other men)" conversation he says it when you asked him "define openmindedness"

You can change your mind about the mages -- you just can't say so.
You're not locked into killing the mages at that point; you can still
save them. However, you ARE locked into killing Wynne if she's in your
party.

HAHA that is to true...

shame I cant go back and redo it because pffft Wynn

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 23 février 2010 - 06:30 .

[Addai]

Raiynsong wrote...

oh please do! I really wish we could have an apostate mage origin. Maybe with Duncan rescuing me from the "Wrath of the Templars"... which would make early conversations with Alistair really interesting.

Someone somewhere wanted a Dalish mage origin which would also be good. The Circle is just so damned confining.

Heh, I'm going through the Circle now with my elven mage (2nd time with this character, at least- *sigh* for respecs).  This time she's got Blood Wound and using it all over the place, I am going to see if Wynne rats her out.  I heard that this was disabled for PC.

I also have Oghren with me this time.  I've never seen his Fade dream (no spoilers please) and so I made a point to put off the Circle until I got him.  Unfortunately, he cuts out Zevran's wonderful lines at the beginning where Wynne is about to destroy the barrier.  Ah well, my character is wavering between Alistair and Zevran but I don't think it's going to be much of a competition in the end despite her not hearing Zevran's squee-worthy compliment.  Not with the absolute disdain and horror with which Alistair says the words "blood magic."

Ugh, it was so hard to get through that first conversation with Wynne without provoking an attack.  I did it once then reloaded, just to get my aggression out.    I hate that you can't disagree with Morrigan in a more "agreeable" way.  She's absolutely right about the pathetic Circle mages, but still, my recent Circle breakout can't slaughter them all like sheep even so.

Modifié par Addai67, 23 février 2010 - 06:30 .

[EccentricSage]

ejoslin wrote...

You can change your mind about the mages -- you just can't say so. You're not locked into killing the mages at that point; you can still save them. However, you ARE locked into killing Wynne if she's in your party.

Oh, I see.  Ung... I wouldn't want to kill her either... Though you know, I wish you could get this input from Zev, then say you change your mind, and then see Wynne's reaction.  Would have been nice, not only to chalange her, but to see her witness Zevran pleading for the welfare of the mages, who's lives have no impact on his own.

[Cuddlezarro]

Heh, I'm going through the Circle now with my elven mage (2nd time with this character, at least- *sigh* for respecs). This time she's got Blood Wound and using it all over the place, I am going to see if Wynne rats her out. I heard that this was disabled for PC.

you need a simple to use mod to get the "wynn snitches on you" conversation



I posted the entire thing (both kill the circle, and the 2 lie options) in the Wynnie the poo thread

[Addai]

EccentricSage wrote...

Oh, I see.  Ung... I wouldn't want to kill her either... Though you know, I wish you could get this input from Zev, then say you change your mind, and then see Wynne's reaction.  Would have been nice, not only to chalange her, but to see her witness Zevran pleading for the welfare of the mages, who's lives have no impact on his own.

You think this would change her mind about him?  Fat chance!

[EccentricSage]

Addai67 wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

Oh, I see.  Ung... I wouldn't want to kill her either... Though you know, I wish you could get this input from Zev, then say you change your mind, and then see Wynne's reaction.  Would have been nice, not only to chalange her, but to see her witness Zevran pleading for the welfare of the mages, who's lives have no impact on his own.

You think this would change her mind about him?  Fat chance!

lol  I know, but I'd love to have the certanty of seeing it in-game like that.  Otherwise I always find myself giving the benefit of a doubt.  Besides, she does speek of the tenderness in his eyes after he falls in love with you, and I did get a dialogue when she criticised our relationship where she expressed concern for him, too... So I think her true fealings may not be as harsh as her 'advice' and aditude so often seem.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

Oh, I see.  Ung... I wouldn't want to kill her either... Though you know, I wish you could get this input from Zev, then say you change your mind, and then see Wynne's reaction.  Would have been nice, not only to chalange her, but to see her witness Zevran pleading for the welfare of the mages, who's lives have no impact on his own.

You think this would change her mind about him?  Fat chance!

Given how kind he is to her when first entering the tower, I really don't understand why she had to try to put herself in the role of his redeemer.  Actually, I do.  But it makes her initial reactions to him come off a lot more harsh since he was so nice to her.

[Addai]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Heh, I'm going through the Circle now with my elven mage (2nd time with this character, at least- *sigh* for respecs). This time she's got Blood Wound and using it all over the place, I am going to see if Wynne rats her out. I heard that this was disabled for PC.

you need a simple to use mod to get the "wynn snitches on you" conversation

I posted the entire thing (both kill the circle, and the 2 lie options) in the Wynnie the poo thread

Yes, thank you for your wonderful screenies.  So you have to use a mod, then?  Well, that's out.  My husband doesn't like them and the gaming PC is his.  I will have to just imagine Wynne's head exploding as she sees my PC using blood magic.  Fun times.  I am glad they give you the option of recruiting the one female blood mage to fight the darkspawn, where you can tell Wynne "I know what I'm doing."  Strange that you don't take an approval hit for that.

At one point Zevran said "Mages can't really turn someone into a toad, can they?  That's just a myth, isn't it?"  What is it with the running joke of mages turning people into frogs?   He sounds so cute when he's nervous.  

Modifié par Addai67, 23 février 2010 - 06:49 .

[Cuddlezarro]

instead of imagining it why not read the screenshots of the conversation I posted in the Wynn hate topic thats the entire conversation right there and just insert your elf mage in place of my blood mage mage :3

[EccentricSage]

ejoslin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

Oh, I see.  Ung... I wouldn't want to kill her either... Though you know, I wish you could get this input from Zev, then say you change your mind, and then see Wynne's reaction.  Would have been nice, not only to chalange her, but to see her witness Zevran pleading for the welfare of the mages, who's lives have no impact on his own.

You think this would change her mind about him?  Fat chance!

Given how kind he is to her when first entering the tower, I really don't understand why she had to try to put herself in the role of his redeemer.  Actually, I do.  But it makes her initial reactions to him come off a lot more harsh since he was so nice to her.

Ooooh!  See, I didn't have him yet when I did the tower... I totally need a re-do. 

My impression, when she patronised him at first, was that she didn't understand how wrong she was for doing so.  It literaly made me cringe, because anyone who understands Zevran at all at that point knows how utterly cruel it is to say that to him, and how degrading it was for her to impose her view of him like that instead of simply asking him instead.  But I think that is the crux of her problem.  The way she aproaches people is awful.  I would have been pissed as hell.  I imagine if I had been her elven aprentice, I would have hated her so terrebly.