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[jenovan]

Sabriana wrote...

Yeah, that Alistair/Leliana conversation is interesting. Except for one thing, in it Alistair states that Zevran tried to kill them 'more than once'. I don't understand that statement at all.

I hope that wasn't too spoilerish, Jenovan. That snippet above isn't even 1/4 of the whole sentence

Nah, no worries. XD  I've probably read it somewhere already anyway, but I love hearing them say things. ;D  That is weird, though... maybe Zevran tried to kill Alistair when no one else was looking. 


The Loghain/Zevran banter does crack me up, and it's even funnier (in my own head, anyway ;D) when Zevran is in a romance with the PC and they've not been shy about it.  


@Ejoslin:
Huh, interesting... so the "choose" dialogs might be slightly different based on the other companion's gender?  Will have to give that a whirl on my HNF...

[Sabriana]

Lol, can the PC be shy about being in a romance with Zevran? He happily admits everything, and even elaborates about his feelings for her. He never gets embarrassed, on the contrary, he seems happy that everyone knows she is interested/in a relationship with him.



His different scale of relief and happiness if the woman prefers the other woman is likely based on the fact that a rejection because of gender preference is far easier to take than being rejected because he didn't measure up to another man. Once again he comes out with the short end of the stick. Poor Zevran.

[SurelyForth]

ejoslin wrote...

Ok, I just did the ultimatum conversation with Leliana being the love interest (ok, I lead her on this time). It's interesting that Zevran, while he sounds happy that he was picked, doesn't sound nearly as happy or relieved (still happy and relieved, though). I wonder if it's because if you choose Leliana, it implies you prefer women and therefore is not personal, whereas if you choose Alistair, it shows you prefer another man to him.

I think it's a personality thing. Leliana's "choose" speeches are very different from one another. With Morrigan and Zev she confronts you about sleeping with them and you can lie to her and avoid the break-up, but if she's asking about Alistair she is too concerned about him to let you continue both relationships.

Alistair is much nicer about Leliana than he is about Zevran, and is more disappointed than bitter if you choose Leliana v. choosing Zevran. It might very well be a gender preference thing with both of them, though, and the fact that, as the only romancable men, they're in "competition"*. Morrigan and Leliana are similarly opposed with a male PC.

*This might be why Alistair has the "What does a woman see in a man like Zevran?" conversation. It triggered when I was in a relationship with Leliana but had made no moves on Al or Zev.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 23 février 2010 - 03:47 .

[Jaulen]

I have to agree with some of the comments above re RtO. I thought there were a TON of missed opportunities for comanion comments or dialogue, ESEPCIALLY from Alistair.



I have only gone through RtO once, last playthrough with my CE. And will be heading there soon with my DE (Selva). And, yes, all the reactions are so out of character for a non-HN warden. Really, why would my DE, who almost ha dto get drug kicking and screaming along with Duncan, and has no care for humans, care about a human king's body? Plus, she's anti-darkspawn, so it's not like she's going to leave it there, but she's really not going to care one way or another. To her it's just a body.



@ejoslin: I read that the same way, picking Zevran over Leliana and/or Alistair. He does sound much more relieved to be picked if you are romancing Alistair. Although I think, shouldn't the voice acting line be the same? SO maybe I'm hearing something.(Like I did talking to Zathrian in Dalish camp, he sounds 'nicer' when talking to a DE)



Question: I just got to the Brecillian Forest, and have Zevran in the party. Is he supposed to say anything while wandering around the camp? Or have any asides? I have Leli, Zev, and Ali in party. And haven't gotten a comment from him one way or the other talking to anybody except for the storyteller. It's been kind of sad wiuth how quiet he is.

[ejoslin]

*grin* He obviously is not holding his breath with the Leliana dialog. And yes, Zevran tells anyone and everyone that they're involved -- he's quite proud of it. Another Zevran/Alistair contrast -- Alistair gets so embarrassed about the comments from others, Zevran enjoys the comments and adds to them.

[ejoslin]

Jaulen wrote...

I have to agree with some of the comments above re RtO. I thought there were a TON of missed opportunities for comanion comments or dialogue, ESEPCIALLY from Alistair.

I have only gone through RtO once, last playthrough with my CE. And will be heading there soon with my DE (Selva). And, yes, all the reactions are so out of character for a non-HN warden. Really, why would my DE, who almost ha dto get drug kicking and screaming along with Duncan, and has no care for humans, care about a human king's body? Plus, she's anti-darkspawn, so it's not like she's going to leave it there, but she's really not going to care one way or another. To her it's just a body.

@ejoslin: I read that the same way, picking Zevran over Leliana and/or Alistair. He does sound much more relieved to be picked if you are romancing Alistair. Although I think, shouldn't the voice acting line be the same? SO maybe I'm hearing something.(Like I did talking to Zathrian in Dalish camp, he sounds 'nicer' when talking to a DE)

Question: I just got to the Brecillian Forest, and have Zevran in the party. Is he supposed to say anything while wandering around the camp? Or have any asides? I have Leli, Zev, and Ali in party. And haven't gotten a comment from him one way or the other talking to anybody except for the storyteller. It's been kind of sad wiuth how quiet he is.

No, the comment made is actually different.  With Alistair, what Zevran says is longer, he lets out his breath suddenly in it as well.  

In the Dalish camp, he may comment about how his mother was Dalish, and yes, he has that comment to the story teller (which to me sounds like he's telling the story teller, in a respectful way, to shut up).  You also will get a comment if Wynne is in your party and you seduce Cammen.  He also may mention how he prefers the city when you're in the forest.  Also, if you initially side with the werewolves, IF Wynne isn't in your party, you get a great dialog from him.

[SurelyForth]

ejoslin wrote...

*grin* He obviously is not holding his breath with the Leliana dialog. And yes, Zevran tells anyone and everyone that they're involved -- he's quite proud of it. Another Zevran/Alistair contrast -- Alistair gets so embarrassed about the comments from others, Zevran enjoys the comments and adds to them.

I think Alistair holds his own pretty well against Morrigan and Shale (and even the ones with Oghren he's more baffled than embarassed)  Of course, the big difference is that the other party members are usually out to embarass him where, with Zevran, it's just conversation.

[Sabriana]

I would really like to see one of the companions try to embarrass Zevran. Now that would be a feat in itself.

If Wynne would laugh and tell Zevran that he is watching the PC and her swaying hips, he would not only admit it loudly and gladly, he would commence telling everyone that he never saw lovelier hips, or something like that.

[Jaulen]

@ejoslin, Interesting, the only comment he has had so far was to the storyteller (something about the Dalish in Antiva being more violent). Other than that, he's been quite silent. Can't seduce Camden, my DE wouldn't do that to the poor boy (although my CE had no problem taking advantage of the poor boy).



That's right, he does let out a held breath.



My DE has been mean to Alisatir this time through and he's giving her approval for telling him to stop his whining, grow up etc. Shouldn't she be getting approval dings from him? But I haven't had the 'Do you want to talk about Duncan' talk yet, and she didn't really care for him so.....

[ejoslin]

SurelyForth wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

*grin* He obviously is not holding his breath with the Leliana dialog. And yes, Zevran tells anyone and everyone that they're involved -- he's quite proud of it. Another Zevran/Alistair contrast -- Alistair gets so embarrassed about the comments from others, Zevran enjoys the comments and adds to them.

I think Alistair holds his own pretty well against Morrigan and Shale (and even the ones with Oghren he's more baffled than embarassed)  Of course, the big difference is that the other party members are usually out to embarass him where, with Zevran, it's just conversation.

Hmmm, I'm actually not sure about that.  They're not needling Zevran about the sex, but about his feelings, which would be more sensitive a topic.  And yes, while Alistair "holds his own," he's obviously still embarrassed where Zevran is quite happy.  In fact, when Morrigan questions Zevran's real motives, says his reason for being there comes with a set of "lovely eyes," or "strong hands."  And the tone of his voice when he says that line makes it very clear that he's smitten.  Seriously, when Shale says to Zevran, "You know, this type of thing normally ends up in reproduction," would be a very uncomfortable thing to say to someone who is not devoted to someone.  With a FemWarden, though, he says that it wouldn't be a terrible thing, that creating a new life can be a great deal of fun. (I think the male version is just as unabashed).

Both are ribbed about the relationship, it's just the way they handle it is different.

[Sabriana]

Jaulen, he has blurbs, such as "My mother was dalish", and "I like cities, I think forests are filthy", but nothing more than that. I like to take him to the forest because I love his plea for the elves.

My PC, of course, lets herself be persuaded by him.

[ejoslin]

Jaulen wrote...

@ejoslin, Interesting, the only comment he has had so far was to the storyteller (something about the Dalish in Antiva being more violent). Other than that, he's been quite silent. Can't seduce Camden, my DE wouldn't do that to the poor boy (although my CE had no problem taking advantage of the poor boy).

That's right, he does let out a held breath.

My DE has been mean to Alisatir this time through and he's giving her approval for telling him to stop his whining, grow up etc. Shouldn't she be getting approval dings from him? But I haven't had the 'Do you want to talk about Duncan' talk yet, and she didn't really care for him so.....

Heh, trashing Duncan is bad in Alistair's eyes.  I wish I had been more hostile to him from the start in this playthrough.  I think I've gotten just about every approval ding I can.  Ah well, even if he's only -90 hostile, that SHOULD be low enough for him to reject a Cousland wedding if he will under any circumstance.  But I do love his hate speech.  I think that's one of Alistair's sexiest moments.

[Sabriana]

Here is an example for the differences between Zevran being ribbed and Alistair being ribbed:



# Shale: I have noticed that the painted elf seeks the attention of the Grey Warden.

# Zevran: He certainly does.



# Wynne: (Chuckles) You were watching her. With great interest, I might add. In fact, I believe you were...enraptured.

# Alistair: She's our leader. I look to her for guidance.



I'm not bashing Alistair, btw. But he does handle being teased about his love-affair by being embarrassed or evasive. Zevran doesn't. He admits everything, and elaborates on it.

[SurelyForth]

I see it differently, as, to me, the only time Alistair is embarassed is when Wynne is teasing him about checking out the Warden's ass or about where babies come from (he's not embarassed when she tells him that he makes the Warden happy) and when Zevran offers him sex tips. That makes sense for his inexperienced character. He is a more insecure person overall than Zevran, so even if Zev starts out being unsure about love, once he accepts it he just...accepts it.

This is, of course, is not to say that Zevran doesn't come across as being more "about the Warden" in his banter, because he totally does.

I'm not bashing Alistair, btw. But he does handle being teased about his love-affair by being embarrassed or evasive. Zevran doesn't. He admits everything, and elaborates on it.

Alistair isn't evasive with Morrigan, and he does ask Leliana and Wynne outright how to woo the Warden and how to tell her that he loves her. But given the awkwardness of those last two conversations, it's pretty obvious why he might avoid such topics. 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 23 février 2010 - 04:26 .

[Sabriana]

Alistair is a sweet young man, totally inexperienced, and very insecure. No wonder, he was pushed into the Chantry and was completely sheltered. It's no surprise that he acts the way he does.

I do like him a lot, but not as a love-interest. That's most likely where my dislike for Eamon comes from. I disliked him from the moment he talked about Alistair and making him king while totally ignoring the fact that Alistair was standing right in front of him.

[ejoslin]

SurelyForth wrote...

I see it differently, as, to me, the only time Alistair is embarassed is when Wynne is teasing him about checking out the Warden's ass or about where babies come from (he's not embarassed when she tells him that he makes the Warden happy) and when Zevran offers him sex tips. That makes sense for his inexperienced character. He is a more insecure person overall than Zevran, so even if Zev starts out being unsure about love, once he accepts it he just...accepts it.

This is, of course, is not to say that Zevran doesn't come across as being more "about the Warden" in his banter, because he totally does.

I'm not bashing Alistair, btw. But he does handle being teased about his love-affair by being embarrassed or evasive. Zevran doesn't. He admits everything, and elaborates on it.

Alistair isn't evasive with Morrigan, and he does ask Leliana and Wynne outright how to woo the Warden and how to tell her that he loves her. But given the awkwardness of those last two conversations, it's pretty obvious why he might avoid such topics. 

Actually, he asks how to woo a woman and totally denies it's about him and the warden.

[_- Songlian -]

Sabriana wrote...

Here is an example for the differences between Zevran being ribbed and Alistair being ribbed:

# Shale: I have noticed that the painted elf seeks the attention of the Grey Warden.
# Zevran: He certainly does.

# Wynne: (Chuckles) You were watching her. With great interest, I might add. In fact, I believe you were...enraptured.
# Alistair: She's our leader. I look to her for guidance.

I love this thread. 

Modifié par - Songlian -, 23 février 2010 - 04:35 .

[Sabriana]

Ejoslin how is your 'have Alistair hate the PC and marry her anyways?' going. I've been reading your posts, and I am simply amazed at the speed you are running the story with. Wow.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Ejoslin how is your 'have Alistair hate the PC and marry her anyways?' going. I've been reading your posts, and I am simply amazed at the speed you are running the story with. Wow.

I've been <esc> through much of the dialog (not party dialog of course).  I've done the forest and redcliff so far, as well as RtO and Honnleath.  I just finished Leliana's personal quest as well, though she's still broken hearted over my Warden's cruel rejection.  The tower will take an hour or so, IF I stay off the forums (which of course I never do).

I messed it up, though, because in Lothering I was being decent to Alistair and also didn't threaten the mother.  So I'm rushing through a bit, because I may have to redo it.  I just can't think of too many more chances for approval hits.  I think he disapproves when you side with Branka (so my party will be Oghren, Alistair, Zevran, and my warrior PC -- we'll be taking a LOT of potions as traps are not effective on Caridin, though I may swap out Zevran for Wynne or Morrigan, ugh).  I can murderknife Genetivi for a few points.  I'll also see if I can find disapproval in the conversation he has at Arl Eamon's estate.  Other than that?  *sigh*  Does anyone know?

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Ok, I just did the ultimatum conversation with Leliana being the love interest (ok, I lead her on this time). It's interesting that Zevran, while he sounds happy that he was picked, doesn't sound nearly as happy or relieved (still happy and relieved, though). I wonder if it's because if you choose Leliana, it implies you prefer women and therefore is not personal, whereas if you choose Alistair, it shows you prefer another man to him.

Plus there is his little rivalry with Alistair.  You see it on both sides.  If you tell Alistair about Zevran "we have a connection," he says "yes, I can see that," and you can tell it bothers him.  So I think there's a competitiveness that probably would not be there for Leliana.

*sigh*  I'm having so much fun with this mage character that I'd like to take her over to the expansion, but it is so improbable that a lover of Zevran's would not have him at her side for a dangerous mission, especially so soon after Origins.  It's pretty much RP-breaking.  Sooo disappointed that Zevran does not even get a cameo.  Not to mention that even my rogue HNF Ali-girl is going to feel gimped without her partner in crime.

[Sabriana]

@ Ejoslin
Other than being rude to him, I can't say. Maybe if you are mean to Filda and/or Dagna? Or Nadezda and Zerlinda?

Although I don't think I could be mean to any of those dwarf women and not feel like a complete heel.
I feel for them all, and Dagna is the sweetest NPC I've ever met in all my gaming days.

@ Addai
That what my problem is. My PCs are all happily rebuilding the Wardens with Zevran. He would never let any one of them go off alone, especially my bestest girl ever. That was one heck of a play-through, their love-story unfolded just so beautifully. So no, none of them will get ported over.

Good thing I am in the wait and see zone with Awakenings, so I'll have plenty of time to run a character through that won't romance Zevran. With my luck, she will fall for him faster than a rock off a mountain. *sigh*

Modifié par Sabriana, 23 février 2010 - 05:04 .

[SurelyForth]

I know you can bottom out Alistair's approval (reset to 0) if you tell him that he'll marry Anora because you told him he would marry Anora, but I don't know how that would translate if you're at negative approval in the first place.



My male Cousland got him to -100 within 4 hours of play time (Ostagar-> Lothering-> Redcliffe and done!). I was inordinately proud of myself for that.

[ejoslin]

SurelyForth wrote...

I know you can bottom out Alistair's approval (reset to 0) if you tell him that he'll marry Anora because you told him he would marry Anora, but I don't know how that would translate if you're at negative approval in the first place.

My male Cousland got him to -100 within 4 hours of play time (Ostagar-> Lothering-> Redcliffe and done!). I was inordinately proud of myself for that.

No, I messed up.  I've gotten him to 100 hostile before, but I was asking for suggestions since he's NOT bottemed out and I've already passed those stages.  I got -51 for redcliff!  

I mainly want to see if he'll marry a Cousland at 100 hostile.  I don't think I'll be able to get him below 90 hostile though.

Sabriana wrote...

Other than being rude to him, I can't say. Maybe if you are mean to Filda and/or Dagna? Or Nadezda and Zerlinda? Although I don't think I could be mean to any of those dwarf women and not feel like a complete heel.
I feel for them all, and Dagna is the sweetest NPC I've ever met in all my gaming days.

No more opportunities to be rude to him or call him a whiner unfortunately.  I'll try being mean to Dagna and Filda, but that's not the type of thing that normally ticks him off.  I'm hoping siding with Branka will be enough of a hit, as well as murderknifing genetivi.  Since he can't be hardened, maybe letting him know he'll be king will also net a loss.

Edit: Isn't his greeting at hostile great, though?

Alistair (super pissy tone): What do you want?
Warden: I have some questions for you
Alisatir: *sigh* If you must

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 février 2010 - 05:15 .

[soulsweeper87]

Oh dear, this thread made me love Zevran so much I can't not romance him now, even when I'm initialy planning to :/
Anyway, I don't know if it was mentioned before, but I've just run into a dialogue (a one-line, actually) which I didn't seem to get before and it felt really heartbreaking. At the bridge riddle during the gauntlet, Zevran says something like "Yeah, I trust my friends... to stab me in the back eventually". Ouch!

I also love that Zevran's standard tactics involve attacking whomever's attacking the Warden. Does any other character get it? In this playthrough my DE character is really touched by Zevran's protectiveness. He did save her from being raped by a giant spider on several occassions

EDIT: BTW, when I read about your problems Leliana's romance turning on problems, I couldn't help thinking your game is somewhat buggy. I never had these kind of problems with her and I'm usually nice and friendly. I just have to be careful with Marjolane dialogue (don't venture into "someone special" theme), but that's it.

Modifié par soulsweeper87, 23 février 2010 - 05:30 .

[Sabriana]

- Songlian - wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Here is an example for the differences between Zevran being ribbed and Alistair being ribbed:

# Shale: I have noticed that the painted elf seeks the attention of the Grey Warden.
# Zevran: He certainly does.

# Wynne: (Chuckles) You were watching her. With great interest, I might add. In fact, I believe you were...enraptured.
# Alistair: She's our leader. I look to her for guidance.

I love this thread. 

Yeah. Ain't it great. My home away from home.

@ Ejoslin

It is great. I wish someone would put the 'Hate Speech" and that greeting on YouTube. I don't have the guts to do the play-through myself, but I'm dying to hear it