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[EccentricSage]

Creature 1 wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...
Relax, ok?  And I'm a woman.  And I think law enforcement would be more worried about the murder part since the sexual part would have been, in such a scenario, technically consentual. 

No, actually, it wouldn't be consensual, because the context is "If I'm not having sex with you, I'm killing you."  That's coercion, and that means it's rape.  Scary implications of this scenario not being rape include "if he's hot, it's not rape" and "if you got turned on, it wasn't rape". 

In the scenario, I meant that if you would die ether way, you may as well have fun first.  So consentual.  Not that it would be pleasurable to think you have to have sex OR ELSE you die.  Not the same thing.  And once again I'll remind you that I was joking about sexual fantasy, not promoting real world actions or attitudes.  So the point is pretty moot.

Personally I was interpretting his stories as the women being willing, not raped.  But it's all realy up for personal interpretation, I guess.  I'm not thinking in terms of how things are in our world, but rather in that fantasy world.  Anything is ok in fantasy so long as it stays in fantasy.  If you disagree, that's fine, but it wasn't said to upset you. 

I think this is part of the problem.  DA devs thought, "Oh, it's dark fantasy, so have him have sex with people who know what he's planning before killing them, that will be cool and dark."  But they didn't really handle it in a realistic way, they handled it in a frivolous way.  I guess I like my dark fantasy realistic. 

You make a good point.  I have to think they were purposefully vague so that we wouldn't have to 'go there' unless we wanted to.  It's something to think about... one of the many troubling thoughts and questions Zevran's character can bring up.  Maybe Zevran is only telling you the stories where he feals he can justify the sex... or maybe he was being blatant about something very dark and horific, but then backpedeling and softening it for you if you react in a negative way to it... to be honest, we will never know.  It is one of the most troubling things about his past.  But really, he seems like a surprisingly compassionet character, so I think at worst it would be a mix of the two... or not the second option at all... as I can't see him raping a woman without it really bothering him.

[EccentricSage]

Creature 1 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Take Isabela as an example -- a woman he definitely used sex to carry out his mission, but there's no way that could ever be considered rape.

Unless I'm mistaken, Isabela had no idea what he was up to.  He deceived her, but didn't coerce her.  The mage and the woman who gave him the bad poetry knew he was planning on killing them whenever he lost interest in the entertainment they could provide or just ran out of time.  That's coercion. 

That's assuming he was deceiving you when he elaborates on the story... He also claims he fell for the mage and did not kill her, and that he gave the woman who told him the poem hours of pleasure.  So realy, it's one of those things where we don't know, and never will, what those encounters were realy like, and weather he's telling the truth, trying to passify you, or deluding himself.

[ejoslin]

Creature 1 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Take Isabela as an example -- a woman he definitely used sex to carry out his mission, but there's no way that could ever be considered rape.

Unless I'm mistaken, Isabela had no idea what he was up to.  He deceived her, but didn't coerce her.  The mage and the woman who gave him the bad poetry knew he was planning on killing them whenever he lost interest in the entertainment they could provide or just ran out of time.  That's coercion. 

Oh, you're right about that.  And it's disturbing to think about.  Even Isabela, if you think about it, is very disturbing.  Her main complaint was not that he used her to get to her husband, but that he disappeared afterwards.

And yes, his childhood would have totally desensitized him to sex.  It was completely separated from emotions for him.  So why those particular stories?  Why, when he has developed feelings for the warden, does he tell her the poem and that story?  All his stories are things that have bothered him deeply, so I suppose that the poetry reading could also be another story that bothered him.  But I don't know; I just haven't looked at that whole thing too deeply since it is in a fantasy setting.

So I don't know.  It is very disturbing, to say the least.  And also shows that if he falls in love, he has healed to a greater extent than if he is not romanced.  But I wonder, since clean kills were important to him.  Which takes me back to Leliana using seduction as well.  But yes, when he describes those two women as begging for their lives, it does cast a far uglier light on it.

Edit: But then I keep going back to how sex is treated SO much differently in this world.

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 février 2010 - 02:05 .

[Creature 1]

EccentricSage wrote...
You make a good point.  I have to think they were purposefully vague so that we wouldn't have to 'go there' unless we wanted to.  It's something to think about... one of the many troubling thoughts and questions Zevran's character can bring up.  Maybe Zevran is only telling you the stories where he feals he can justify the sex... or maybe he was being blatant about something very dark and horific, but then backpedeling and softening it for you if you react in a negative way to it... to be honest, we will never know.  It is one of the most troubling things about his past.  But really, he seems like a surprisingly compassionet character, so I think at worst it would be a mix of the two... or not the second option at all... as I can't see him raping a woman without it really bothering him.

He's always careful about checking to see if it's ok when he hits on you.  This is probably mostly because the devs want to give homophobic guys an out so they don't freak out.  I think it makes sense for a person who was himself raped to try to be careful of others' boundaries.  But it seems that maybe what he's been through screwed up his understanding of other people so that he doesn't understand that sometimes when someone says it's ok, it's really not ok at all.  He would probably be horrified at the idea of physically forcing someone to have sex, but doesn't get that having sex with someone who submits because of the fear of death is equally nonconsensual. 

[EccentricSage]

Creature 1 wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...
You make a good point.  I have to think they were purposefully vague so that we wouldn't have to 'go there' unless we wanted to.  It's something to think about... one of the many troubling thoughts and questions Zevran's character can bring up.  Maybe Zevran is only telling you the stories where he feals he can justify the sex... or maybe he was being blatant about something very dark and horific, but then backpedeling and softening it for you if you react in a negative way to it... to be honest, we will never know.  It is one of the most troubling things about his past.  But really, he seems like a surprisingly compassionet character, so I think at worst it would be a mix of the two... or not the second option at all... as I can't see him raping a woman without it really bothering him.

He's always careful about checking to see if it's ok when he hits on you.  This is probably mostly because the devs want to give homophobic guys an out so they don't freak out.  I think it makes sense for a person who was himself raped to try to be careful of others' boundaries.  But it seems that maybe what he's been through screwed up his understanding of other people so that he doesn't understand that sometimes when someone says it's ok, it's really not ok at all.  He would probably be horrified at the idea of physically forcing someone to have sex, but doesn't get that having sex with someone who submits because of the fear of death is equally nonconsensual. 

This is true, and may very well be the case.  The mage story is the one that made me cringe the most, because she begged... Maybe it's true that it worked and he tried to spare her... but yeah...I have my doubts that the mage seduced him exactly.  He really seemed convinced with himself that in other cases, the women wanted one night of pleasure before dying.  Though the poem story is questionable, too... because she was trying to seduce him into spairing her from the sound of the situation.  I honestly get the impression that he does want the person he has sex with to enjoy it... that it's not intended as cruel... that he even thinks he's being kind.  But it is a dark place he takes you to.  It is fun to come up with different reactions and rationale for characters when they get this dialogue.  It's realy chalenging.

[Creature 1]

EccentricSage wrote...
It is fun to come up with different reactions and rationale for characters when they get this dialogue.  It's realy chalenging.

In my fanfic I think I will dispense with the poetry reading, because after my character's reaction to the story about the mage I think he'd realize it's probably a bad idea to share that story. 

[Nonvita]

Creature 1 wrote...

He's always careful about checking to see if it's ok when he hits on you.  This is probably mostly because the devs want to give homophobic guys an out so they don't freak out.  I think it makes sense for a person who was himself raped to try to be careful of others' boundaries.  But it seems that maybe what he's been through screwed up his understanding of other people so that he doesn't understand that sometimes when someone says it's ok, it's really not ok at all.  He would probably be horrified at the idea of physically forcing someone to have sex, but doesn't get that having sex with someone who submits because of the fear of death is equally nonconsensual. 

Good points all around. Unfortunately, we don't get to know more about what he actually thought about the situations (if he thought much at all, I can imagine him being so caught up in "business" that he didn't really question his actions), or what the other party thought of his actions. To me it sounds like most of his encounters were consentual, but it's true that begging for one's life puts the whole thing in a different light.

I just think the 'acceptability' of it was a combination of things, that Antiva itself has a far different view of sex than our society (and Fereldan society), and that sex was just so integrated into his job that he never stopped to think that that part of what he did was truly horrible. (This makes me think again about the "I've regretted much more than the people I've been with" comment. How exactly does his sense of guilt fit into any of this?)

There's really no skirting around the fact that he did many terrible things in his life. This is just another aspect of that, though clearly not the part that most affected him. But that's why it's so touching to watch him change and grow, and to start to understand the way emotions work.

[Cuddlezarro]

today on Alexander and Zevs love diary... the deep roads are to ******* long and Oghren wants to banter with Morrigan and not Zevran

[sami jo]

Creature 1 wrote...
He's always careful about checking to see if it's ok when he hits on you.  This is probably mostly because the devs want to give homophobic guys an out so they don't freak out.  I think it makes sense for a person who was himself raped to try to be careful of others' boundaries.  But it seems that maybe what he's been through screwed up his understanding of other people so that he doesn't understand that sometimes when someone says it's ok, it's really not ok at all.  He would probably be horrified at the idea of physically forcing someone to have sex, but doesn't get that having sex with someone who submits because of the fear of death is equally nonconsensual. 

I took his explanation that he tells you he gave her "hours" of pleasure was his way of trying to make her last hours as pleasant as possible because not killing her was not an option.  I did not get the impression that he gave her an ultimatum of "sleep with me or I kill you," but that she was trying to seduce him to change his mind and save her own life, which is what the mage had successfully done.  He seems to believe that one of the few things he is good for is pleasing others sexually.  He half expects the Warden to pimp him out and makes it clear in other convos that the Crows did exactly that.  He focuses on how much pleasure he gave her, not on how much he enjoyed it.  He certainly isn't equating it to rape.

@Jaulin and others re: approval drop for cutting off the romance-- I don't have a save near that point to find the exact dialogue, but during one of the first conversations when he calls the Warden handsome/beautiful, the Warden can reply, "You think I am handsome/beautiful?"  He will reply with something that ends with, "Does that bother you?"  If you choose the reply, "No, it doesn't bother me, but it isn't going to happen." (paraphrased) there is no approval hit.  In fact, I am pretty certain that I got a small approval gain for that convo.  There is a similar conversation where the PC can ask him about his sexuality (the question varies for male or female characters), and again, if you choose the response that says that your character isn't offended but isn't interested, there is no approval loss. 

And unlike the buggy bard, he doesn't sneak romance anyone.

I don't think I can play a female PC again.  I feel too guilty about Allistair.  I know I'm projecting because I didn't start the romance with him, but he sounds pathetic every time I talk to him.  I actually got a +2 from him when Zev gave me my "massage" though. Apparently he is happy that one of us is having fun.

[ejoslin]

sami jo wrote...

I took his explanation that he tells you he gave her "hours" of pleasure was his way of trying to make her last hours as pleasant as possible because not killing her was not an option.  I did not get the impression that he gave her an ultimatum of "sleep with me or I kill you," but that she was trying to seduce him to change his mind and save her own life, which is what the mage had successfully done.  He seems to believe that one of the few things he is good for is pleasing others sexually.  He half expects the Warden to pimp him out and makes it clear in other convos that the Crows did exactly that.  He focuses on how much pleasure he gave her, not on how much he enjoyed it.  He certainly isn't equating it to rape.

@Jaulin and others re: approval drop for cutting off the romance-- I don't have a save near that point to find the exact dialogue, but during one of the first conversations when he calls the Warden handsome/beautiful, the Warden can reply, "You think I am handsome/beautiful?"  He will reply with something that ends with, "Does that bother you?"  If you choose the reply, "No, it doesn't bother me, but it isn't going to happen." (paraphrased) there is no approval hit.  In fact, I am pretty certain that I got a small approval gain for that convo.  There is a similar conversation where the PC can ask him about his sexuality (the question varies for male or female characters), and again, if you choose the response that says that your character isn't offended but isn't interested, there is no approval loss. 

And unlike the buggy bard, he doesn't sneak romance anyone.

I don't think I can play a female PC again.  I feel too guilty about Allistair.  I know I'm projecting because I didn't start the romance with him, but he sounds pathetic every time I talk to him.  I actually got a +2 from him when Zev gave me my "massage" though. Apparently he is happy that one of us is having fun.

!!!!!!! THAT explains why my warden was at -77 hostile with him instead of -79!  Sneaky templar!

Sami Jo, thank you for this post -- the entire thing is fabulous!

Edit: I was kidding about the approval thing.  Alistair didn't care one way or the other about my HNF sex life. He really hates her much 

Second edit: I think, actually, that you in essence hit the nail on the head for me.  That the hours of sex were NOT for him, but for his victims.  He thought he was doing something good for them -- and the way this world is set up, he probably was. My guess -- he did give them pleasure, that much he knew how to do.  Another guess -- they knew they were going to die before they saw the assassin, and knew if he didn't kill them, someone else would.  And yet another guess, if any one of them asked him not to, to just kill them instead, he would have.

And it also wouldn't surprise me if most were more a seduce to get them alone scenario.  Somehow it sounds more horrible when you have a man doing the seducing, but in that scenario, it is the same as what Leliana was doing.  It's ugly for sure, but I don't believe he is meant to be a sociopath, removed from his feelings due to childhood trauma.  Instead, I think he's trying to at least be as kind as he can, and in that world, it probably IS a kindness.

In the real world, I find the whole idea of most of the characters completely repellent, though.  But this is a far darker world, where lives are cheaper, sex is viewed quite differently, torture is still used universally.  It's just different.

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 février 2010 - 05:07 .

[EccentricSage]

ejoslin wrote...

sami jo wrote...

I took his explanation that he tells you he gave her "hours" of pleasure was his way of trying to make her last hours as pleasant as possible because not killing her was not an option.  I did not get the impression that he gave her an ultimatum of "sleep with me or I kill you," but that she was trying to seduce him to change his mind and save her own life, which is what the mage had successfully done.  He seems to believe that one of the few things he is good for is pleasing others sexually.  He half expects the Warden to pimp him out and makes it clear in other convos that the Crows did exactly that.  He focuses on how much pleasure he gave her, not on how much he enjoyed it.  He certainly isn't equating it to rape.

@Jaulin and others re: approval drop for cutting off the romance-- I don't have a save near that point to find the exact dialogue, but during one of the first conversations when he calls the Warden handsome/beautiful, the Warden can reply, "You think I am handsome/beautiful?"  He will reply with something that ends with, "Does that bother you?"  If you choose the reply, "No, it doesn't bother me, but it isn't going to happen." (paraphrased) there is no approval hit.  In fact, I am pretty certain that I got a small approval gain for that convo.  There is a similar conversation where the PC can ask him about his sexuality (the question varies for male or female characters), and again, if you choose the response that says that your character isn't offended but isn't interested, there is no approval loss. 

And unlike the buggy bard, he doesn't sneak romance anyone.

I don't think I can play a female PC again.  I feel too guilty about Allistair.  I know I'm projecting because I didn't start the romance with him, but he sounds pathetic every time I talk to him.  I actually got a +2 from him when Zev gave me my "massage" though. Apparently he is happy that one of us is having fun.

!!!!!!! THAT explains why my warden was at -77 hostile with him instead of -79!  Sneaky templar!

Sami Jo, thank you for this post -- the entire thing is fabulous!

Edit: I was kidding about the approval thing.  Alistair didn't care one way or the other about my HNF sex life. He really hates her much 

Second edit: I think, actually, that you in essence hit the nail on the head for me.  That the hours of sex were NOT for him, but for his victims.  He thought he was doing something good for them -- and the way this world is set up, he probably was. My guess -- he did give them pleasure, that much he knew how to do.  Another guess -- they knew they were going to die before they saw the assassin, and knew if he didn't kill them, someone else would.  And yet another guess, if any one of them asked him not to, to just kill them instead, he would have.

And it also wouldn't surprise me if most were more a seduce to get them alone scenario.  Somehow it sounds more horrible when you have a man doing the seducing, but in that scenario, it is the same as what Leliana was doing.  It's ugly for sure, but I don't believe he is meant to be a sociopath, removed from his feelings due to childhood trauma.  Instead, I think he's trying to at least be as kind as he can, and in that world, it probably IS a kindness.

In the real world, I find the whole idea of most of the characters completely repellent, though.  But this is a far darker world, where lives are cheaper, sex is viewed quite differently, torture is still used universally.  It's just different.

That's how I prefer to see him, too.  If I had to die, very soon, no way out, I'd have to say that's one of the better ways to go... especialy in their world.  I'd imagine that Antivans know enough about the Crows to know the recruits don't even have a choice in what they are, and will be slaughtered for sparing a mark, too.  Sad, realy.  Might seem a perverse thought in our world, but in Zev's it seems like the only way he could experience compassion, because anything else could get him killed.  It's terrible and dark, but if it's the case, still romantic.  But I'm a perv.  lol  So... yeah.

As for their world being darker... Well.. Our world is probably only brighter for maybe the top 10% wealthiest people on earth.  The less fortunate in many places still live in a dark and horrific world.  It's just easy for us to pretend this stuff only happens in fiction.  Hell.. you'd be shocked by some of the stuff that goes on even in the modern wealthy countries.  There's human traficking and child exploitation going on right here in America, and in most countries, really, for one example.

[ejoslin]

EccentricSage wrote...

That's how I prefer to see him, too.  If I had to die, very soon, no way out, I'd have to say that's one of the better ways to go... especialy in their world.  I'd imagine that Antivans know enough about the Crows to know the recruits don't even have a choice in what they are, and will be slaughtered for sparing a mark, too.  Sad, realy.  Might seem a perverse thought in our world, but in Zev's it seems like the only way he could experience compassion, because anything else could get him killed.  It's terrible and dark, but if it's the case, still romantic.  But I'm a perv.  lol  So... yeah.

As for their world being darker... Well.. Our world is probably only brighter for maybe the top 10% wealthiest people on earth.  The less fortunate in many places still live in a dark and horrific world.  It's just easy for us to pretend this stuff only happens in fiction.  Hell.. you'd be shocked by some of the stuff that goes on even in the modern wealthy countries.  There's human traficking and child exploitation going on right here in America, and in most countries, really, for one example.

I feel this world is darker than ours because there is outrage over injustices in our world, though I agree, not enough. 

I don't think it's being perverted, though, seeing the side where it could be considered a kindness.  Leliana says something like that to Alistair, that there are far worse deaths than after a night with a beautiful woman.  That comes off as scary, of course, but not as rape.  And I don't think he would do it for his own pleasure, but for his victims.  And yes, in that context, it is sweet, in a sick way.  Because those are hours he's also putting himself at risk -- it's far safer to just kill your mark as soon as you can.

In our world, it's a horrible scenario.  But this isn't our world.  All you learn about Antiva makes it sound like this is just the way things are.  Even Ignacio says something about how you never know when the streets are going to start flowing red with blood in Antiva.  And just from the few things Zevran says, sex seems to be a lot more out in the open, than in Ferelden, which is, compared to our world, downright liberal.

Edit: BTW, ES, I really like your avatar. 

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 février 2010 - 06:30 .

[EccentricSage]

ejoslin wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

That's how I prefer to see him, too.  If I had to die, very soon, no way out, I'd have to say that's one of the better ways to go... especialy in their world.  I'd imagine that Antivans know enough about the Crows to know the recruits don't even have a choice in what they are, and will be slaughtered for sparing a mark, too.  Sad, realy.  Might seem a perverse thought in our world, but in Zev's it seems like the only way he could experience compassion, because anything else could get him killed.  It's terrible and dark, but if it's the case, still romantic.  But I'm a perv.  lol  So... yeah.

As for their world being darker... Well.. Our world is probably only brighter for maybe the top 10% wealthiest people on earth.  The less fortunate in many places still live in a dark and horrific world.  It's just easy for us to pretend this stuff only happens in fiction.  Hell.. you'd be shocked by some of the stuff that goes on even in the modern wealthy countries.  There's human traficking and child exploitation going on right here in America, and in most countries, really, for one example.

I feel this world is darker than ours because there is outrage over injustices in our world, though I agree, not enough. 

I don't think it's being perverted, though, seeing the side where it could be considered a kindness.  Leliana says something like that to Alistair, that there are far worse deaths than after a night with a beautiful woman.  That comes off as scary, of course, but not as rape.  And I don't think he would do it for his own pleasure, but for his victims.  And yes, in that context, it is sweet, in a sick way.  Because those are hours he's also putting himself at risk -- it's far safer to just kill your mark as soon as you can.

In our world, it's a horrible scenario.  But this isn't our world.  All you learn about Antiva makes it sound like this is just the way things are.  Even Ignacio says something about how you never know when the streets are going to start flowing red with blood in Antiva.  And just from the few things Zevran says, sex seems to be a lot more out in the open, than in Ferelden, which is, compared to our world, downright liberal.

Edit: BTW, ES, I really like your avatar. 

Yes, I agree.   

I think people who see his attitude about sex as sleezy aren't 'getting it'... because realy... sleezy guys only want to use you and care about their own pleasure most.  You definetly get the impression with Zevran that sexuality is extreamly important to him, precious to him, but largely because it's something he can share, rather than for selfish reasons.  Guys like that are rare and wonderful beings, btw, and actually put people off in real life too, strangely.  I met a guy with a simular personality to Zev once... oh... how did that one slip through my fingers... T__T

Thank you!    Can't you just imagine him and Zev together... disturbing Alistair...flustering Wynne...

[Sabriana]

The most telling sentence in that conversation is when my PC is totally flabbergasted, asking in a shocked voice "You killed her anyway?" To her it was inconceivable. To her, sex was not disconnected from affection (not only to love necessarily, but she did have her fun, after all).

After hearing his answer "Of course *after* the sex. What do you think I am? A monster?" I somehow puts things in a different light for me. He has a very disconnected relationship with sex vs emotional attachment.  He sees it as pleasure.

To him, it may be equal to her last wish being able to have a last decent meal, or a bottle of good wine. There is no difference to him in that matter, and he would've most likely granted any reasonable last wish.

Meal, wine, sex - they all have one thing in common, they mean his victim wishes to enjoy something pleasurable for the last time.

Now, the woman might have had different ideas, and wanted to use it as a means to escape assassination. Perhaps she thought that she could get the time to either kill him instead, or persuade him to let her live. However, she had to know that others would follow, as it is shown, the Crows don't let go easily, even if it is a Grey Warden who has bested one of their best.

I also do not doubt that Zevran would have been summarily executed by the Crows if he failed due to whatever reason. The reason I view this as entirely possible is that Ferelden has a far more openview on sexuality than parts of even the modern western society. His "you Ferelden's are so finicky" and other remarks regarding sexuality show me, personally, that as open as Ferelden is, Antiva has an even more open view on it.

However, had it not been for the "what do you think I am, a monster" sentence, I'd be quite disturbed.  Sex means nothing to Zevran but pleasure. I don't think he would view it as coercion or even rape, as a matter of fact, I think he'd be horrified if someone suggested that. In his view of sex, he could easily have surmised that the woman was seeking one last pleasure.

To societies that still have the death penalty it's the last meal. It was customary in many societies, and maybe it still is, to ask the death canditate "Do you have a last wish?" Zevran might have thought, wrongly or right, that this is what the woman wanted as a last wish. I can even imagine that he went out of his way to make it as pleasurable as possible for  her without taking himself into consideration, just to be kind and make her last wish as enjoyable as possible.

[Raiynsong]

Hi Guys. I'm totally happy because I think I did the Taliesen encounter and first earring RIGHT this time so I'm on my way to second earring heaven He got pretty angry (but was clearly sad rather than just pissed off) when I rejected the earring and now wont got to the tent. Poor guy. He feels soo deeply.



Regarding sex/assassination: I think many of you are forgetting two things 1) Antivan culture is VERY different than ours, and 2) Antivan culture is NOT Ferelden culture either.



Assassination is just part of the fabric of Antivan life: something that probably comes to MANY people lately, and so people may try to avoid it as long as they can but there isn't the moral outrage that we would have if we faced a killer who also wanted to have sex with us. ( For a quite different take on assassination as a normal part of culture, real CJ Cherryh's Pretender/Inheritor series. )

My take on the mage and the poetry mark is that both were hoping to get away from the assassination by using sex (and the mage WOULD have gotten away if she hadn't been killed my mistake). So WE, and our characters as Fereldens, might be outraged by sex by assassin, but I don't think Antivans had the same attitude. Now I see Orlesians differently -- there I think the sex before death thing would be more like here because it wouldn't just be honest sex it would be all part of their gamesmanship.



and yes, Riordan's voice is dead sexy.



Question for you -- many post talk about Zevran's "Spanish" voice. I don't hear that myself. It's interesting to me because I don't hear his voice as any one thing. I hear elements that seem Greek and others that seem more Italian than Spanish

[Sabriana]

Congrats, Raiynsong .Yeah that 'angry face' is melt-worthy.



And like I stated in my post, I think very strongly that the wish for sex came from the woman. Zevran viewed it as a last request, and he fulfilled it. Just like someone else might ask for a last meal, last bottle of wine, last whatever.

What the woman's motives were, no one knows. Perhaps, like the mage, she was trying to plot against him while he was occupied, perhaps there were other motives. And yes, sex is only pleasure to Zevran. To him sex. meal, wine, whatever, would have no distingushing features in what pleasure is. Had she requested a last bottle of wine, a last meal, a last dance, he'd most likely would have granted it. She wanted sex, so he gave it to her. Hence, the "What do you think I am, a monster?"



I too hear several accents, but the Greek one is new to me. There's a lot of Spanish, but also Italian, and sometimes he sounds a lot like my Portuguese friend. A (mostly) Mediterranean mix, for sure.

[ejoslin]

Ummmm, does anyone know if killing Howe gives Alistair an approval bump? If he's not in my party when rescuing Anora, I don't get to hear Zevran threaten to cut Anora's throat. But I've got him at -90 hostile so -100 hostile without killing the elves is still a distinct possibility!

And congratulations Raiynsong!  I'm curious.  Did you by chance, when he was thanking you for freeing him from the crows, hear the friendship version of that dialog?  It's probably my favorite one of his in the game.  Well, tied for first with a few others.

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 février 2010 - 02:04 .

[SurelyForth]

ejoslin wrote...

Ummmm, does anyone know if killing Howe gives Alistair an approval bump? If he's not in my party when rescuing Anora, I don't get to hear Zevran threaten to cut Anora's throat. But I've got him at -90 hostile so -100 hostile without killing the elves is still a distinct possibility!

And congratulations Raiynsong!  I'm curious.  Did you by chance, when he was thanking you for freeing him from the crows, hear the friendship version of that dialog?  It's probably my favorite one of his in the game.  Well, tied for first with a few others.

I am almost absolutely positive that Zev and Morrigan are the only ones who give approval when you kill Howe (out of them, Wynne, Leliana, and Alistair). I even notice because I want to know what exactly they approve of-  killing him (since you can't not kill him that would seem strange) or how the PC handles the confrontation.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 25 février 2010 - 02:33 .

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

Ummmm, does anyone know if killing Howe gives Alistair an approval bump? If he's not in my party when rescuing Anora, I don't get to hear Zevran threaten to cut Anora's throat. But I've got him at -90 hostile so -100 hostile without killing the elves is still a distinct possibility!

And congratulations Raiynsong!  I'm curious.  Did you by chance, when he was thanking you for freeing him from the crows, hear the friendship version of that dialog?  It's probably my favorite one of his in the game.  Well, tied for first with a few others.

I hope it will go well with your mission, Ejoslin. Getting Alistair to -100 I mean.

Thank you for the info though, I didn't know that Alistair had to be there. Does that mean I won't get to see the escape parties? I usually don't take Alistair there because I read somewhere that he automatically gets arrested with the PC, and they escape together.

[SurelyForth]

Sabriana wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Ummmm, does anyone know if killing Howe gives Alistair an approval bump? If he's not in my party when rescuing Anora, I don't get to hear Zevran threaten to cut Anora's throat. But I've got him at -90 hostile so -100 hostile without killing the elves is still a distinct possibility!

And congratulations Raiynsong!  I'm curious.  Did you by chance, when he was thanking you for freeing him from the crows, hear the friendship version of that dialog?  It's probably my favorite one of his in the game.  Well, tied for first with a few others.

I hope it will go well with your mission, Ejoslin. Getting Alistair to -100 I mean.

Thank you for the info though, I didn't know that Alistair had to be there. Does that mean I won't get to see the escape parties? I usually don't take Alistair there because I read somewhere that he automatically gets arrested with the PC, and they escape together.

If you don't take Alistair, when Anora returns to Eamon Estate he's there with Eamon (and he gets pretty angry). The PC is taken to Ft. Drakon alone, but there's a creepy NPC in the cell next to you who will talk to you so you can set the rescue parties.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 25 février 2010 - 02:44 .

[Raiynsong]

I was at 100 adore so I am not sure about the dialog but what I did hear was pretty squee as it was. I did the "he's with me now" and after Taliesen died got to 100 love. Then for the earring "not if it means nothing", which dropped me to 90 Love. Went back to camp and then he tried to thank me again, which at first confused me a little. I gave the "friend" rather than "more than friends" answer. Now he refuses to have sex. I tried to be supportive but didn't force him to talk. I think that's the right way to go with that part of the dialog.



It is REALLY hard for me to stay noncommittal at the first earring attempt because, frankly, if I saved a friend's life from the crows and he wanted to give me a gift for that I would take it. And the way he starts that dialog you could easily just take it as a thank you gift no matter where you were in the relationship. So I tell myself that when he first offers it my first thought is that it's a commitment but that when he continues his story I realize that he's not going to tell me it is and so if it's not, I don't want it (sad that it isn't a commitment) and just can't bring myself to accept something I'd want to mean more than it does. That way I can get through that dialog. But it's hard for me not to just say "I love you dammit" back at him.



Before this I took just Zev and Sten for a walk about Denerim. Sten's reaction to my kissing Zev had me laughing.

[Raiynsong]

oooh I didn't know you could leave Alistair behind for Anora's rescue. Might have to try that.

[Sabriana]

@ SurelyForth
Yeah, I know. That's another reason I leave him behind on that mission. I love 'angry' Alistair. He's quite sexy then

So I would guess there is no rescue party if the PC takes Alistair with her to go get Anora? The PC and him will always escape together without help from the allies?

Modifié par Sabriana, 25 février 2010 - 02:47 .

[SurelyForth]

Sabriana wrote...

@ SurelyForth
Yeah, I know. That's another reason I leave him behind on that mission. I love 'angry' Alistair. He's quite sexy then

So I would guess there is no rescue party if the PC takes Alistair with her to go get Anora? The PC and him will always escape together without help from the allies?

Sorry!  I misunderstood your question. If you do take Alistair, you talk to him in the cell and you can either escape on your own or tell him that someone will come and get you and then choose the pair through dialogue.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 25 février 2010 - 02:48 .

[Sabriana]

Thank you, SurelyForth. I'll make sure and take him next time around. I always thought there would not be an opportunity to see the allies trying to spring you from prison. Who wants to miss the Broma Bros? Or Sten and Dog? Or.., well, you get the picture.



Raiynsong, I never had a 'Sten' reaction. I'll try that out asap. The way I role-played the earring with my HN was that she more or less playfully asked about being 'married in Antiva'. His reaction then spurred her into the 'not if doesn't mean anything' direction. Because she is definitely in love with him by then, and she knows it, unlike Zevran, who knows it somehow, but fights it still at this point.