35177 réponses à ce sujet

[jenovan]

AndreaDraco wrote...

Exactly. I can't understand why no one is seeing that they were playing as much as Zevran. He is no innocent, of course, but nothing in his adventure ever portrayed him like an insensitive man, an abusive one or let alone a rapist. I find the very thought ridiculous!

I think the issue is that to an outside perspective -- the PC's, or really, the player's -- the situations can be defined as rape (for eleventy billion reasons described on the other thread).

BUT

Zevran doesn't see them that way, and that's important (well, if you are interested in the character  ).  More than likely, his upbringing and training leave him with the idea that these things aren't wrong or terrible or what have you.   And if your PC realizes that, then maybe they can look past it, and help Zevran in his redemption.

/fangirl filter

[AndreaDraco]

Again the word 'raped'. Unless raping someone means something entirely different here in Italy, Zevran DID NOT RAPE ANYONE. He didn't beat those women, he didn't force them to have sex with him. They seduced him both times. They tried to take advantage of him to take advantage of the situation. Were they victims? No. Was he a victim? No.

[Jaulen]

AndreaDraco wrote...

Again the word 'raped'. Unless raping someone means something entirely different here in Italy, Zevran DID NOT RAPE ANYONE. He didn't beat those women, he didn't force them to have sex with him. They seduced him both times. They tried to take advantage of him to take advantage of the situation. Were they victims? No. Was he a victim? No.

Nope, here in America it's the same thing.....at least the part of America I'm from. Rape is forced. BUT it might also be condiered rape if the person DOING the 'raping' says to the victim "have sex with me or you die!" That's rape....
But a woman using sex to get something? Not rape.

They are the ones choosing (key word here 'choosing') to have sex and in effect are seducing their assasain.

Is using sex as a tool so you don't get killed very much different than using sex as a tool to get close to someone so 1) you can kill them 2) use them to get that nice mansion/car/allowance/furs/clothes/whatever?
In all cases the woman is choosing to use sex as a tool to get something out of the man.

Modifié par Jaulen, 26 février 2010 - 09:53 .

[Raiynsong]

I don't think any of Zevran's stories ever made me think of rape. Seduction is NOT rape. It's not love either. But it's not rape. Seduction is not date rape either.
Here's my take on the diff reactions to Zevran vs Leliana (Caveat: I'm a big Zevran fan and I am NOT a big Leliana fan--I don't hate her, but I find her to be more flawed and more superficial and not as trustworthy)
1) there is probably some truth to the girl on girl theory, but I don't think that's primary
2) Leliana "has found religion" (although I don't really think she has. Therefore, until after her hardening (if you do that) most people believe that even if she was a bard, it was in her past, and she has repented. Zevran even after leaving the Crows, NEVER gives up his identity as an assassin. Even so, I think philosophically I consider him to be a much more morally honest and moral good character than Leliana is (although I don't consider her as slimey and evil as some do. In fact I don't consider any of them, including Morrigan and Loghain, as really evil. Howe is evil. Vaughn is evil. The others, not so much). Anyway, in my mind, Leliana has all the appearance of being a "saved" person, whereas I think Zevran actually IS one. (apologies to any Xtians I might offend by using those analogies, but I think you get what I mean.)
My work--I'm an anthropologist who works in university admin. And I'm old enough to have used punchcards to program Fortran (only once or twice, thank God), though I never learned Cobol.
Very nice fanfic by the way. I can certainly see the second attempt happening that way

Modifié par Raiynsong, 26 février 2010 - 09:55 .

[AndreaDraco]

Exactly. It seems to me like an easy point. He isn't saying to them: "Have sex with me or you die". They are saying to him: "Have sex with him, you cutie" while thinking of ways to use him or otherwise get rid of him.

[Sabriana]

I feel with you, Andrea. I have the same opinion. He's not a "monster'. He tries to fulfill their wish in my opinion. Sex and sexuality is viewed so differently outside of Europe. It is a shame.

[Maria Caliban]

Sabriana wrote...

Nobody pays attention to me. Lol

I understand now, your thread was a call for attention. Well, you have mine!

And now I'm a douche bag according to a pretender in my thread. This is hilarious.

If the shoe fits.

[Jaulen]

@Raiynsong: I think your point about #2 may be closer to the mark than some would want to admit.



And an anthropologist?? Cool. I was a couple of Soc classes away from a degree in Anthro along with my Geology degree. One of my most favorite Anthro teachers would have us study a different topic and then we'd have to write a "Time Machine" story about that particular civilization/time period we were studying (idea that you went back in time and were a mute observer, so our stories had to be historically (as far as current research went) accurate). Those were so fun, and the last creative writing I did until this game (wish I had saved those stories).



And the Antro teacher that made us do math problems in the Mayan numbering system. Good times!

[Jaulen]

Sabriana wrote...

I feel with you, Andrea. I have the same opinion. He's not a "monster'. He tries to fulfill their wish in my opinion. Sex and sexuality is viewed so differently outside of Europe. It is a shame.

Chalk it up to the Puritians and the American's trying to out Victorian the English.

[Sabriana]

Nice. Isn't it wonderful how easy it is to quote people out of all context? You win the price, caliban. And please, do include throwing David, Sheryl, or Mary into your next post. We are all looking forward to your name-dropping. Really.

[Cuddlezarro]

Maria can you please not start a flame war in this topic pretty please 

[ejoslin]

Jaulen wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

I feel with you, Andrea. I have the same opinion. He's not a "monster'. He tries to fulfill their wish in my opinion. Sex and sexuality is viewed so differently outside of Europe. It is a shame.

Chalk it up to the Puritians and the American's trying to out Victorian the English.

Oh, we've totally succeeded on that front.

[Jaulen]

Reported M_C's post.



The flame war can stick to one thread, especially since nothing is being added by M-C to the conversation on this thread other than to troll.

[sjachdarastrix]

Edit: The writer of the fanfic that made me cry took the tact of her and Zevran together, and they stayed in Denerim, but then he disappears from her side one day and 22 years later shows up at her side in the Deep Roads. And he promises to stay by her side this time no matter what. The mental imagery of him standing over her body to keep the darkspawn from eathing her.....man, I still get misty eyed thinking about it.



is that the one thar starts w ith her and Alistair? that one w as really sad if it's the one I'm thinking offDX... I think it is I don't want ot check cause it was really sad>.> and I'm a culinary student in college... well actually today is my last day soo I ain't much right now lol. this is probably answering the question way late but o well I just got home-_- *goes back to reading*

[Jaulen]

@ sjachdarastrix: That may be the story...PC and Alistair hitting the deep roads (she's kind of unhinged/broken) ... so yeah, sad, don't read again unless you want to cry. (I cried for Alisatir, her, and Zevran, (such a softie))



*and now I know who to ask for cooking tips*

[Maria Caliban]

Sabriana wrote...

You win the price, caliban.

I'd rather win the prize.

The sad thing is that I like Zevran. I was thrilled when I learned that gay men might get a gender appropriate romantic partner in the game. I loved having him with me when I played. I like the character, and my first PC ended up riding off into the sunset with him and Leliana.

Your desire to create a stupid Leliana vs Zevran thread does not make me happy. You don’t want me to complain about your behavior? Then stop it.

[ejoslin]

Heh, even my Alistair vs Zevran as a romance partner thread didn't draw THIS much vitriol. In fact, that turned into a very fun thread.

[Cuddlezarro]

Ejoslin you happen to be a fangirl of both though even with your Zevran bias :3

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Ejoslin you happen to be a fangirl of both though even with your Zevran bias :3

A fangirl of dumping Alistair and getting him to 100 hostile and having my HNFs marry him for political reasons . . . yes, that's me!  He takes all my abuse so well 

[Cuddlezarro]

ejoslin wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Ejoslin you happen to be a fangirl of both though even with your Zevran bias :3

A fangirl of dumping Alistair and getting him to 100 hostile and having my HNFs marry him for political reasons . . . yes, that's me!  He takes all my abuse so well 

and you dared call me evil in the Wynn thread!

[Jaulen]

Okay, I've pretty much spent the afternoon doodling, I wanna try my hand at drawing a decent sketch of Zevran, do you guys have any decent screenshots of him (rather close-up). All angles welcome....



My PC is still gimped when it comes to taking screenshots.....

[Sabriana]

Hey now. So am I. But Zevran does get a happy ending with my girls. *grin*

[sjachdarastrix]

yes I am good for some cooking tips:P on the sex issue... with the mage didn't she try to kill Zev when they were having there fun? I don't remember if he says that or not, but I do think part of the sex with that one was so she could get him, but it didn't work... but yeah I can't see Zev ever aping or using someone that way since he was probably used like that alot, and argh how do I find arguments on this sort of thing everywhere... this makes me think of another none DA blog lol, I wish I could write my thoughts better but I'd just babble dumbly...

Edit:Alton Brown rocks... and the school he went to is the one I am going to... I heard he was a lousy student though lolXD

Modifié par sjachdarastrix, 26 février 2010 - 10:36 .

[Jaulen]

It *is* fun having Alistair mad at you. (Forst time for me in a playthrough so far)
I love the "*heavy sigh* What do you want NOW?!?" or "Do this, do that." when you click on him.
Although I do miss the buddy-buddy aspect.

EDIT (I'm a FoodTV Junkie, if I ever ran across Alton Brown IRL I would probably either faint, or run up to him and hug him and then faint, *sad but true* I love the science of cooking aspect of his show....)

Modifié par Jaulen, 26 février 2010 - 10:32 .

[Maria Caliban]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Ejoslin you happen to be a fangirl of both though even with your Zevran bias :3

I think of Alistair as more of a boy and Zevran as more of a man. If that makes sense.