35177 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

Nonvita wrote...

I don't see it being the same as him with the Warden, though. I'm with ejoslin in that he doesn't want to go back to the Crows. He goes back because he has nothing left. The sense of hope he felt because of the Warden is completely wiped away, and instead he is left alone to feel once again that his existence is meaningless. I view his rise to the top only as an attempt to give meaning to his life. I think the point is to highlight that he reverts to being the same as he was before he left the Warden and that he comes to believe he'll never be anything more.

He went to Denerim to try and escape the pain he felt, and his retaliation against the Crows was clearly vengeful. He is no longer a clearly thinking person. He's basically been taken over by the monster inside him.

I don't imagine him doing any good. I imagine him continuing the Crows as they have always been. That's the sad irony- the man who tried to break free of the Crows and become a better person ends up becoming the cruel leader who changes nothing, and it happened that way precisely because he had that chance at freedom.

I actually imagine him worse than he was.  That humanity in him, the glimmering of kindness and compassion, probably what held him back before, is now gone. It's more apparent with the romance ending, where no one ever gets close to him again.  

[ejoslin]

Charsen wrote...

I would say that my Mage-Warden went with Zevran because my Warden was the heart of goodness. (Haha, sickening, right?) He was quite the paladin, the good boy of the Chantry, and always tried to help people. Gave gold to beggars, helped everyone he could, etc.

So he saw Zevran, someone who needed help more than anyone. In my Warden's eyes, Zevran was corrupted from childhood by the Crows, and it was not his fault - it was the life he knew. So my Warden first befriended him, saw the goodness there, and the rest was history..

I think it turned out well, and I enjoyed having the option for their romance since my Warden may have otherwise been celibate.

Oh and as a side note, I installed a mod for Zevran that changed his appearance to use Duncan's ponytail and have a generally more appealing (imo) look. I have never played the game with the original Zevran look, though the look of him isn't that important to my character's romance.

I hate it when I post an introduction, and it's stuck at the bottom of the page and someone posts at the same time and starts a new page.  Since I did that to you, I'm quoting your post in its entirety and also saying hello and welcome!

I like the way Zevran looks, though.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Nonvita wrote...
2. If they want the throne, they can only get it through Anora. I would call that a punishment. They also end up having much less power than a female who marries Alistair unhardened.

A guy can still have an unhardened Alistair on the throne, while being his chancellor, effectively becoming the ruler of the country in all but name.

But yes I agree, a guy has less "direct" power when he is married to Anora (he still has symbolic power and has control over the army presumably + Grey Wardens). However, this is positive for Ferelden, as they could end up ushering a new golden age.

[Addai]

Nonvita wrote...

I don't imagine him doing any good. I imagine him continuing the Crows as they have always been. That's the sad irony- the man who tried to break free of the Crows and become a better person ends up becoming the cruel leader who changes nothing, and it happened that way precisely because he had that chance at freedom.

I agree that he did not want to go back to the Crows, though I'm in between on whether he would do good as leader of the Crows.  Not just because of his experience in Ferelden, but because Zevran already had more heart than many of his fellows, if I read the situation right.  He resisted the training, he never completely lost his conscience or sense of mercy, and even without the Warden at all, he was starting to change with the events surrounding Rinna's death.  Obviously this does not mean he becomes "the Crow with the heart of gold"- he would not last long if he did not maintain their reputation.

[Nonvita]

ejoslin wrote...



I actually imagine him worse than he
was.  That humanity in him, the glimmering of kindness and compassion,
probably what held him back before, is now gone. It's more apparent
with the romance ending, where no one ever gets close to him again.  

Yes, I think you're saying what I was trying to get at, only in a much shorter and clearer way.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

A guy can still
have an unhardened Alistair on the throne, while being his chancellor,
effectively becoming the ruler of the country in all but name.

But
yes I agree, a guy has less "direct" power when he is married to Anora
(he still has symbolic power and has control over the army presumably +
Grey Wardens). However, this is positive for Ferelden, as they could
end up ushering a new golden age.

True true. I'd still say guys have it slightly worse off overall, but then I mostly say that to laugh at girls who whine about the Alistair endings. However, I am a cruel person who feels little remorse in doing terrible things to him, so people probably shouldn't listen to me.

Addai67 wrote...

I agree that he did not want to go back to the Crows, though I'm in between on whether he would do good as leader of the Crows.  Not just because of his experience in Ferelden, but because Zevran already had more heart than many of his fellows, if I read the situation right.  He resisted the training, he never completely lost his conscience or sense of mercy, and even without the Warden at all, he was starting to change with the events surrounding Rinna's death.  Obviously this does not mean he becomes "the Crow with the heart of gold"- he would not last long if he did not maintain their reputation.

For me it just comes down to the irony aspect. Because of the Warden, he had a chance at a new life- he felt like he was worth something and he learned what happiness (and possibly love) feels like. Losing this causes him to essentially become a monster- he turns into the leader of the Crows, and in doing so he becomes the one hurting others in the same way he was hurt before. He becomes everything he tried so hard not to be, and he, who should have been the one to break free of the Crow training, became the ultimate product of the training and the one inflicting it upon future generations.

It's ironic because, had it not been for the Warden, he never would have ended up in that position. He would have either continued on as he had been or been killed. Like I said, he ends up becoming the ultimate Crow only because he came so close to escaping from the Crows.

That's the way it makes sense to me. Of course, as with everything, the two lines of text we're provided can be interpreted in many different ways.

[Cuddlezarro]

But yes I agree, a guy has less "direct" power when he is married to Anora (he still has symbolic power and has control over the army presumably + Grey Wardens). However, this is positive for Ferelden, as they could end up ushering a new golden age.

well if the king consort and queen wouldent stop bickering over the throne it would be a new golden age as the epilogue says

[EccentricSage]

Nonvita wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

This is true.  But given the fact he will chalange the warden's decisions even though he has sworn himself to servitude and his life rests in the warden's hands, and he will do so simply out of compassion for others who's welfare has no baring on his own, I tend to imagine he'd use his power for some good.  Part of making the best of his situation, I'd imagine.

I don't see it being the same as him with the Warden, though. I'm with ejoslin in that he doesn't want to go back to the Crows. He goes back because he has nothing left. The sense of hope he felt because of the Warden is completely wiped away, and instead he is left alone to feel once again that his existence is meaningless. I view his rise to the top only as an attempt to give meaning to his life. I think the point is to highlight that he reverts to being the same as he was before he left the Warden and that he comes to believe he'll never be anything more.

He went to Denerim to try and escape the pain he felt, and his retaliation against the Crows was clearly vengeful. He is no longer a clearly thinking person. He's basically been taken over by the monster inside him.

I don't imagine him doing any good. I imagine him continuing the Crows as they have always been. That's the sad irony- the man who tried to break free of the Crows and become a better person ends up becoming the cruel leader who changes nothing, and it happened that way precisely because he had that chance at freedom.

The slide left it pretty open for interpretation ether way, realy.  I personaly think that falling completely in love only to have it imedietly and violently taken away is what destroys the good in Zevran in the romanced ending.  In the friendship scenario, it sounds like the loss isn't enough to cloud his judgement or change him.  That's how I see it.  Romanced Zevran is very swept away by these emotions he had tried to supress for so long.  Frienship Zevran is rediscovering his emotions, valuing them, but not being controlled by them.  That's what I think is diferent, and would have a big impact on how he deals with the Crows.  I can't beleive that a sane Zevran would go back to cruel ways.  Fact is the romanced Zevran sounds as though he lost it completely after losing his love.

But of course, it is vague.  I imagine there will be fantastic fanfictions in the future going in all manner of directions with this.

[EccentricSage]

Addai67 wrote...

Nonvita wrote...

I don't imagine him doing any good. I imagine him continuing the Crows as they have always been. That's the sad irony- the man who tried to break free of the Crows and become a better person ends up becoming the cruel leader who changes nothing, and it happened that way precisely because he had that chance at freedom.

I agree that he did not want to go back to the Crows, though I'm in between on whether he would do good as leader of the Crows.  Not just because of his experience in Ferelden, but because Zevran already had more heart than many of his fellows, if I read the situation right.  He resisted the training, he never completely lost his conscience or sense of mercy, and even without the Warden at all, he was starting to change with the events surrounding Rinna's death.  Obviously this does not mean he becomes "the Crow with the heart of gold"- he would not last long if he did not maintain their reputation.

Exactly.  That's exactly how I see it.  Zev is his own man.  The Warden has a huge impact on him, but he is still Zev.

The crows would still have to kill and everything, certainly.  If he didn't maintain the Crow's power, Antiva would become even more chaotic and also vulnerable to atack from other countries.  This would cause much more suffering than what the crows already inflict.  Zevran is both a compassionet person and a hard core pragmatist.  I think he'd realize this and try to balance his decisions.  A horrible burden for a kind killer to bare, for sure.

[Nonvita]

EccentricSage wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I agree that he did not want to go back to the Crows, though I'm in between on whether he would do good as leader of the Crows.  Not just because of his experience in Ferelden, but because Zevran already had more heart than many of his fellows, if I read the situation right.  He resisted the training, he never completely lost his conscience or sense of mercy, and even without the Warden at all, he was starting to change with the events surrounding Rinna's death.  Obviously this does not mean he becomes "the Crow with the heart of gold"- he would not last long if he did not maintain their reputation.

Exactly.  That's exactly how I see it.  Zev is his own man.  The Warden has a huge impact on him, but he is still Zev.

The crows would still have to kill and everything, certainly.  If he didn't maintain the Crow's power, Antiva would become even more chaotic and also vulnerable to atack from other countries.  This would cause much more suffering than what the crows already inflict.  Zevran is both a compassionet person and a hard core pragmatist.  I think he'd realize this and try to balance his decisions.  A horrible burden for a kind killer to bare, for sure.

That's all true, and I see your point. It's a lot harder to tell with the friendship version that the love version, as you mentioned. He values the friendship incredibly highly, but how much a part of him it becomes (as compared to love which completely takes over) is unclear. I guess in my mind, the fact he tasted freedom is the sole clincher. I just can't imagine him returning to the Crows without losing himself. But to each his own! I'll never do the US, so he's safe as far as I'm concerned! =D

[Charsen]

ejoslin wrote...

Charsen wrote...

I would say that my Mage-Warden went with Zevran because my Warden was the heart of goodness. (Haha, sickening, right?) He was quite the paladin, the good boy of the Chantry, and always tried to help people. Gave gold to beggars, helped everyone he could, etc.

So he saw Zevran, someone who needed help more than anyone. In my Warden's eyes, Zevran was corrupted from childhood by the Crows, and it was not his fault - it was the life he knew. So my Warden first befriended him, saw the goodness there, and the rest was history..

I think it turned out well, and I enjoyed having the option for their romance since my Warden may have otherwise been celibate.

Oh and as a side note, I installed a mod for Zevran that changed his appearance to use Duncan's ponytail and have a generally more appealing (imo) look. I have never played the game with the original Zevran look, though the look of him isn't that important to my character's romance.

I hate it when I post an introduction, and it's stuck at the bottom of the page and someone posts at the same time and starts a new page.  Since I did that to you, I'm quoting your post in its entirety and also saying hello and welcome!

I like the way Zevran looks, though.

That's very thoughtful of you, thanks! 

Yeah the original Zevran isn't bad looking, but I was looking over mods before playing the game... I am a sucker for mods... and I thought the dark-haired Zevran was pretty hot vs. the regular one, so I grabbed it. 

Modifié par Charsen, 28 février 2010 - 07:06 .

[Cuddlezarro]

I didnt notice we had a new guy bad me bad bad me



so Hi welcome to the club...its nice to see another guy around these parts amidst all the raving fangirls *dodges various things thrown at me*

[Charsen]

Hehe, thanks for the welcome, I didn't think anyone would notice a new random guy around here.. =)



I haven't quite finished the game yet, still at the Landsmeet, but the game is great so far, and the community here seems pretty cool!

[Nonvita]

*throws a shoe at Cuddlezarro* Stop dodging it, darnit!



And welcome, Charsen, from another of the raving fangirls! Don't worry, we only throw things at Cuddlezarro. Usually this is the most peaceful thread on the forum. =P

[Cuddlezarro]

Nonvita wrote...

*throws a shoe at Cuddlezarro* Stop dodging it, darnit!

And welcome, Charsen, from another of the raving fangirls! Don't worry, we only throw things at Cuddlezarro. Usually this is the most peaceful thread on the forum. =P

keep throwing things at me and Ill use my secret weapon on you! *shakes fist mencacingly*

[EccentricSage]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Nonvita wrote...

*throws a shoe at Cuddlezarro* Stop dodging it, darnit!

And welcome, Charsen, from another of the raving fangirls! Don't worry, we only throw things at Cuddlezarro. Usually this is the most peaceful thread on the forum. =P

keep throwing things at me and Ill use my secret weapon on you! *shakes fist mencacingly*

Acid Flasks?  Soulrot Bombs? 


And hello new guy!    This thread is practicaly a fan comunity in and of it's self.  Welcome to Team Zevran!  "We are too awesome by far!"

Modifié par EccentricSage, 28 février 2010 - 07:25 .

[Cuddlezarro]

EccentricSage wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Nonvita wrote...

*throws a shoe at Cuddlezarro* Stop dodging it, darnit!

And welcome, Charsen, from another of the raving fangirls! Don't worry, we only throw things at Cuddlezarro. Usually this is the most peaceful thread on the forum. =P

keep throwing things at me and Ill use my secret weapon on you! *shakes fist mencacingly*

Acid Flasks?  Soulrot Bombs? 

people use those!? I sell them off for money

my secret weapon is worse than that :3

[soignee]

this is one of my favourite threads here

[EccentricSage]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Nonvita wrote...

*throws a shoe at Cuddlezarro* Stop dodging it, darnit!

And welcome, Charsen, from another of the raving fangirls! Don't worry, we only throw things at Cuddlezarro. Usually this is the most peaceful thread on the forum. =P

keep throwing things at me and Ill use my secret weapon on you! *shakes fist mencacingly*

Acid Flasks?  Soulrot Bombs? 

people use those!? I sell them off for money

my secret weapon is worse than that :3

I LOVE poisons and grenades.  So much.    It's like magic for non mages.  *__*  With an Afliction Hex, they can realy help soften a cluster up fast. 

Hmmmm... Your secret weapon is worse than being sprayed with acid...

Are you... going to sic...Leliana on me?  0___0

[Bootsykk]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Nonvita wrote...

*throws a shoe at Cuddlezarro* Stop dodging it, darnit!

And welcome, Charsen, from another of the raving fangirls! Don't worry, we only throw things at Cuddlezarro. Usually this is the most peaceful thread on the forum. =P

keep throwing things at me and Ill use my secret weapon on you! *shakes fist mencacingly*

Acid Flasks?  Soulrot Bombs? 

people use those!? I sell them off for money

my secret weapon is worse than that :3

Bah. i love poisons. Especially acid flasks.

DARKSPAWN GO BOOM

[Cuddlezarro]

EccentricSage wrote...

I LOVE poisons and grenades.  So much.    It's like magic for non mages.  *__*  With an Afliction Hex, they can realy help soften a cluster up fast. 

Hmmmm... Your secret weapon is worse than being sprayed with acid...

Are you... going to sic...Leliana on me?  0___0

Lelienas to busy falling for my openly gay cousland to be doing anything at the moment

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 28 février 2010 - 07:32 .

[Nonvita]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Lelienas to busy falling for my openly gay cousland to be doing anything at the moment

Ha! She's totally friendzoned with my female HN. Bet you're jealous!


*hides from aforementioned secret weapon*

[Cuddlezarro]

Nonvita wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Lelienas to busy falling for my openly gay cousland to be doing anything at the moment

Ha! She's totally friendzoned with my female HN. Bet you're jealous!


*hides from aforementioned secret weapon*

thats what she *wants* you to think then BAM

ZOMG UR SLEEPING WITH ZEVRAN I THOUGHT U WUBED ME!!!!!!

[Nonvita]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

thats what she *wants* you to think then BAM

ZOMG UR SLEEPING WITH ZEVRAN I THOUGHT U WUBED ME!!!!!!

Considering I'm not romancing anyone else, I guess it'll come as a big surprise when she gets mad at me for marrying a friendzoned Alistair. If so, I'm looking forward to it!

[EccentricSage]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Nonvita wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Lelienas to busy falling for my openly gay cousland to be doing anything at the moment

Ha! She's totally friendzoned with my female HN. Bet you're jealous!


*hides from aforementioned secret weapon*

thats what she *wants* you to think then BAM

ZOMG UR SLEEPING WITH ZEVRAN I THOUGHT U WUBED ME!!!!!!

LOL  I'd just kick her out of my party and be done with it.  The more I interact with her, the more I hate her.

Hmmmm... what IS your secret weapon... Ohgren's farts?  Alistair's nasty socks?  Shale's love and afection?  Wynne's 'good advice'? 

[Cuddlezarro]

it wouldent be a secret if I told any one now would It