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[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Yeah, but dog doesn't override Zevran, he just adds to the 'conversation'.
I see it the same way, Ejoslin. It is a proposal, and he does keep his promise not to force anything on the PC. It is a gift of affection, and if she wishes it, a proposal. He loves her either way, but he does want a committed relationship. If she wishes it.

But if she doesn't wish it, he can't stay with her.  I think asking him if it's a proposal just puts it out there in the open, but it's a proposal nonetheless.  

Edit: Hmmmm, though.  Of course, since you will never get an "I love you" out of him (though damn, I'd far rather have his "dark city" talk than Alistair's, "You know I love you, but . . ." talk any day), you of course won't get him on one knee actually proposing either.  

I suppose an actual marriage wouldn't be required at all, but I think that the commitment would be.  What's enough for him, I suppose, is that the warden returns those feelings.  But then why are you able to bring up that it IS a proposal, and why does he break up if you don't want to take the relationship that far?  But it doesn't even come up if you accepted the earring the first time, yet his feelings are obviously the same whether it goes there or doesn't.

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 février 2010 - 05:49 .

[TheComfyCat]

ejoslin wrote...

Hmmmm, my question for everyone here -- actually, I'm just asking for opinions. I believe, completely, that Zevran's second offer of the earring is a proposal, and the warden when asking him that, is just calling him on it. Now, I believe this for the most part because I know what happens if you tell him, "No, that's too much," after you question him about it (he's surprised, sad, asks you why the feelings you two share are not enough, calls himself a fool for hoping, and breaks up). I also believe it's a proposal, though, since at his first offering, you can ask him if it means you two are married in Antiva. Also, when you ask him, he says, "Not unless you wish it," which, given how Zevran until that time had made it wouldn't place any claims on her, I can see why he would want it to be something (s)he wanted; he already did want it.

But of course, I'm really good at reading into things that aren't there. So I'm curious about other people's opinions on this.

I agree that it's a proposal.

Unless you choose the painful/ hurtful/ breakup dialogues, Zevran tends to leave a lot unsaid, or deflects comments about his feelings with humor and lighthearted quips. Saying "not unless you wish it" is one of the most direct lines he says to the PC in regards to his own feelings, which gives me the impression that he's really wearing his heart on his sleeve there.

His wording also seems to tip-toe around his intentions as well; rather than saying, "yes, I want it to be a proposal," he avoids putting pressure on the Warden... Saying "not unless you wish it" implies that he does, in fact, wish it.... so long as the feelings are mutual.

[ejoslin]

senorfuzzylips wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Hmmmm, my question for everyone here -- actually, I'm just asking for opinions. I believe, completely, that Zevran's second offer of the earring is a proposal, and the warden when asking him that, is just calling him on it. Now, I believe this for the most part because I know what happens if you tell him, "No, that's too much," after you question him about it (he's surprised, sad, asks you why the feelings you two share are not enough, calls himself a fool for hoping, and breaks up). I also believe it's a proposal, though, since at his first offering, you can ask him if it means you two are married in Antiva. Also, when you ask him, he says, "Not unless you wish it," which, given how Zevran until that time had made it wouldn't place any claims on her, I can see why he would want it to be something (s)he wanted; he already did want it.

But of course, I'm really good at reading into things that aren't there. So I'm curious about other people's opinions on this.

I agree that it's a proposal.

Unless you choose the painful/ hurtful/ breakup dialogues, Zevran tends to leave a lot unsaid, or deflects comments about his feelings with humor and lighthearted quips. Saying "not unless you wish it" is one of the most direct lines he says to the PC in regards to his own feelings, which gives me the impression that he's really wearing his heart on his sleeve there.

His wording also seems to tip-toe around his intentions as well; rather than saying, "yes, I want it to be a proposal," he avoids putting pressure on the Warden... Saying "not unless you wish it" implies that he does, in fact, wish it.... so long as the feelings are mutual.

Oooooh, you are so right about that.

And yeh, when he's leaving, if you ask him about his oath, he says, "We all make promises, spoken and UNspoken..." (among other things), which strongly implies that there is much there that he doesn't feel needs to be said.

[Sabriana]

It must also be considered that he's not very savvy in matters of the heart. He's never had this happen to him before. He is in completely foreign territory, a territory that scares him mightily.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

It must also be considered that he's not very savvy in matters of the heart. He's never had this happen to him before. He is in completely foreign territory, a territory that scares him mightily.

This is true.  

If you turn down the proposal (that's too much), you get another line of dialog that you don't get if you say you don't feel the same.  "So what we feel for each other is not enough?"  It seems he's pretty confident that the warden shares the feelings unless (s)he tells him that (s)he does not.

But if you don't get the second offer of the earring, it's also less clear.  Though if you choose, "maybe it would be better if we stopped," you still get him asking for a future with the warden, though he can't say what.

Oh yes, I know most people don't pick that dialog line, but if you do ask him if it would be better for him if you two stopped, he makes it very clear that he wants a future with the warden which further makes me believe that the earring is a proposal. 

Yes, I'm in a very squee mood today.  My poor city elf has such a long way to go   She just had to choose between Zevran and Alistair -- both took it quite well.  They still haven't been to the tent (I love being forced to choose before actually going to the tent with Zevran as the dialog IS a bit nicer).  I'm in the middle of the werewolf dungeon with her, and cannot wait to get back to camp!

[Sabriana]

What is nicer, the dialogue after? I've only had one PC go to the tent early, and that was my rogue. She was my second, after the mage, an I don't remember if the dialogue she got was different than the one for the others.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

What is nicer, the dialogue after? I've only had one PC go to the tent early, and that was my rogue. She was my second, after the mage, an I don't remember if the dialogue she got was different than the one for the others.

No, Zevran's after the tent dialog is pretty offputting no matter what.  But when he's making you choose, instead of saying, "You and I have had our fun... " which is pretty ugh, whereas if you haven't been to the tent, he says, "Our flirtation has been fun..." which just has a nicer tone.  I always call him on that one, though "We've had our fun?" Heh, because I like the way he elaborates on it.

[ejoslin]

Ok, my project for this week is writing a "Zevran Romance" faq. OMG, people give SUCH bad advice and ruin people's games (NOT this thread, I'm annoyed at another).



Actually, I will do this. Maybe not just about the romance either. But so many people don't know how to get the best endings. I'll start on this this afternoon! It will be fun.

[Cuddlezarro]

and while your doing that Im ripping my hair out over how im gonna kill the genlock forge master in the deep trenches because

the freaking High Dragon gave me less trouble than him with this difficulty mod installed (I use combat tweaks+difficulty add on now) >_<



I want this part of the game over with so i can go do the dalish and get screenshots of Zevrans dialogue there and then its onto the landsmeet and gogo royal scandal!

[ejoslin]

Ok, here's the very rough beginning.  I'm open for suggestions here!  I'll put it in my signature as soon as it's cleaner.  Please please pretty please help!

social.bioware.com/361823/blog/2938/ 

[soulsweeper87]

Got to love Zev's worried expression in this one!



Plus, somewhat unexpected turn of events :innocent:

Modifié par soulsweeper87, 28 février 2010 - 07:20 .

[Sabriana]

Nice going. I'm getting really tired even though it's only 8:15 p.m. so my brain is not working. Perhaps the FAQ should also include the definite 'romance turnoff' lines, since people seem to be picking the wrong ones, thinking they are being polite or something.

Companion NPCs don't just flirt for the heck of it. Those lines will turn the romance on.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Nice going. I'm getting really tired even though it's only 8:15 p.m. so my brain is not working. Perhaps the FAQ should also include the definite 'romance turnoff' lines, since people seem to be picking the wrong ones, thinking they are being polite or something.
Companion NPCs don't just flirt for the heck of it. Those lines will turn the romance on.

Ooooh, good idea.  I'll add those now!  The ones I can think of off the top of my head.

[soulsweeper87]

ejoslin wrote...

Ok, here's the very rough beginning.  I'm open for suggestions here!  I'll put it in my signature as soon as it's cleaner.  Please please pretty please help!

social.bioware.com/361823/blog/2938/ 

Good idea! If you know the conditions for restarting the romance once you ended it, please put it there

[ejoslin]

soulsweeper87 wrote...

Unfortunately, it is not always restartable. I cannot figure out why that is.
Good idea! If you know the conditions for restarting the romance once you ended it, please put it there

Edit: wow, wtb formatting.  Unfortunately ,the romance is not always restartable an I'm not sure why that is.  I've actually been able to restart it after breaking up with him after he fell in love (yes, I'm sadistic).  But I will add that section as well.  Feel free to comment on the blog posting.  Heh, like I'd miss suggestions here as well!

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 février 2010 - 07:38 .

[TripLight]

ejoslin wrote...

soulsweeper87 wrote...

Unfortunately, it is not always restartable. I cannot figure out why that is.
Good idea! If you know the conditions for restarting the romance once you ended it, please put it there

Edit: wow, wtb formatting.  Unfortunately ,the romance is not always restartable an I'm not sure why that is.  I've actually been able to restart it after breaking up with him after he fell in love (yes, I'm sadistic).  But I will add that section as well.  Feel free to comment on the blog posting.  Heh, like I'd miss suggestions here as well!

I just looked at your blog guide ejoslin, you are doing a fantastic job! I was secretly wondering if someone was going to make a small guide, and to my surprise you did. Thank you so much:D.

[Charsen]

So, when we killed Taliesan, I talked to Zev in the alley and he offered me the ring. I went through and said I'd only take it if it meant something. He got upset with me and took the ring back. I thought, oh no! I was too mean, and now he is ignoring me. Nooo! So I reloaded from a save and took the ring.



Now it's about 15-20 hours of playtime later. I've got the ring from him, and we had a good talk afterwards, but is the game ending different if you reject then accept as a proposal?

[AndreaDraco]

No, the game ending remains the same.

[Cuddlezarro]

no the ending isnt different but he doesnt propose to you if you dont reject the earring



also how are you 15-20 hours later? at that point in the game there should only be a few hours of gametime left

[Nonvita]

Ooo I love it ejoslin, great idea! I think I've hit just about every romance turnoff line with my character this time, so if you need any help just ask. XD


As much as I adore her, I really want to get done with my HN. I just have Brecilian to finish and then it's off to Denerim, so I'm getting close. I really want to get the DLCs to try, but I get worried because my Stone Prisoner already likes to mess with me so I don't really want *more* problems. Ah well we'll see.

At least she's finally taking Zevran with her! Ooo he was so snarky with his Shems comment, though it definitely removed any doubt that does hold a grudge against humans despite claiming not to.


But of all the things to have to go back and replay stuff because of, I found out the Dalish merchant stopped selling to me, so I had to go back and figure out what I did. Lo and behold, he got mad because I told off Cammen! All I did was tell him to stop complaining and become a hunter.  Why do you suck so much, Cammen?! I hate you!

[Cuddlezarro]

But of all the things to have to go back and replay stuff because of, I found out the Dalish merchant stopped selling to me, so I had to go back and figure out what I did. Lo and behold, he got mad because I told off Cammen! All I did was tell him to stop complaining and become a hunter. /images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png Why do you suck so much, Cammen?! I hate you!

concerning Cammen the funniest outcome for that little sidequest is lying to Ghenya and making her pissed off at him

her reaction is *priceless* and on top of that you still get  his book!

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 28 février 2010 - 07:48 .

[Ramante]

soulsweeper87 wrote...

Got to love Zev's worried expression in this one!

He looks so cute, I want that. o.ó

I think I can easy play 15 hours after the Landsmeet, I'm very slow. 4 days ago I said I was going to Orzammar, I just got there 2 hours ago (really slow, I know). Though I have good reasons, I needed to give Zev some points in lockpicking so I did some side quests. Now he has 4 lockpicking skills. Besides that I noticed I have an test next thursday (I'm going to fail that one).
Zevran is just awesome in Orzammar his comments about Harrowmont were just great. I love him!

That Forgemaster is a real pain I agree. I always beat him just to get his bow. In my previous playthrough I used arrow of slaying on him (and missed) and then I run away from him. Thankfully he followed. Next I had Wynne use Force field on my archer. So the forgemaster started attacking my archer, while Alistair and Sten were beating him up.

[Sabriana]

Nonvita wrote...

Ooo I love it ejoslin, great idea! I think I've hit just about every romance turnoff line with my character this time, so if you need any help just ask. XD


As much as I adore her, I really want to get done with my HN. I just have Brecilian to finish and then it's off to Denerim, so I'm getting close. I really want to get the DLCs to try, but I get worried because my Stone Prisoner already likes to mess with me so I don't really want *more* problems. Ah well we'll see.

At least she's finally taking Zevran with her! Ooo he was so snarky with his Shems comment, though it definitely removed any doubt that does hold a grudge against humans despite claiming not to.


But of all the things to have to go back and replay stuff because of, I found out the Dalish merchant stopped selling to me, so I had to go back and figure out what I did. Lo and behold, he got mad because I told off Cammen! All I did was tell him to stop complaining and become a hunter.  Why do you suck so much, Cammen?! I hate you!

Oh, what does he say? Is it real spoilerish? If not, tell me, please. Does he actually say 'Shems'?

Yeah, Cammen. I really want to like him, but that face... I looked at that mod, but it changes a whole lot of stuff, so I'm a bit apprehensive about it. I wish there was a stand-alone 'make Cammen look better' mod.

[Nonvita]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

concerning Cammen the funniest outcome for that little sidequest is lying to Ghenya and making her pissed off at him

her reaction is *priceless* and on top of that you still get  his book!

Oooh, I've never tried that! So the shopkeeper won't decide you're a terrible person like he does if you tell Cammen exactly what he needs to hear to suck it up and work harder? I still don't see what's so bad about that. For goodness' sake I was way ****ier to Sarel but no one cared about that.

It's so weird switching from an elf who hates everything human to a human who can't stand the elves... As it is the Dalish are annoying her so much that only Zevran will be able to save them from their doom. Doesn't hurt that it'll be a much needed approval boost from him...

Edit:

Sabriana wrote...

Oh, what does he say? Is it real spoilerish? If not, tell me, please. Does he actually say 'Shems'?

Yeah,
Cammen. I really want to like him, but that face... I looked at that
mod, but it changes a whole lot of stuff, so I'm a bit apprehensive
about it. I wish there was a stand-alone 'make Cammen look better' mod.

Hm, I can't remember the exact words. I was being rude to Sarel and he said something about Shems being intolerable or some such. Zevran responded something like, "If you think they're bad, you should try living with them."
Let me try loading it up to get the quote, it was very interesting to hear!

Modifié par Nonvita, 28 février 2010 - 08:05 .

[Charsen]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

no the ending isnt different but he doesnt propose to you if you dont reject the earring

also how are you 15-20 hours later? at that point in the game there should only be a few hours of gametime left

Well, I probably suck.  After Talieren... I did Arl Denerim's Estate, broke out of jail, Arl Eamon's Estate, the Alienage, Return to Ostagar, and then went back to loot some places I didn't have the skill for when I first went through, and tidied up some of the chanter's board and other mission type quests.. did some shopping to upgrade all of the armor for the group.. Looks like that took 14 hours. I may have been semi-distracted/afk for a bit of that... Ok I'm a slow quester, I know.. *hides*