35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabriana]

CZ, I thank you for the mod. I so appreciate it. Cammen looks very acceptable now. I love it.



*hugs CZ*

[Sabriana]

barkingM1 wrote...

None of my girls - or boys, for that matter - would ask Zev to do a hit for them. His regrets & determination to start over ring too true, & he's been damaged enough. Now, I could easily see him taking matters into his own hands without being asked if he felt his love was being threatened. If one of my more amoral PCs felt it necessary to have Anora put down outside the law, they would do it themselves & give Zev the opportunity to come along, which I expect he would. But I would never treat Zev like a murder-boy for hire.

I could not have said it better myself. I agree utterly and completely.

[Cuddlezarro]

Cammen may look more acceptable but he still shouldent be allowed to breed! his stupidity might be contagious (the true reason for that old cow wynn disapproving with you sleeping with him!)

[Jaulen]

Re: The Alistair Crowd being more sentimental.



We're just more realistic about the truths and choices that come with power.



I don't go to the Alistair thread any more becuase (and I know I've said it before) many of the Alistair Fan-girls have a Disneyesque idea of Prince/King and romantic love.



give me down and dirty/gritty realistic/redemtion and a more mature/evolved love over a text book fairy-tale romance anyday (yes yes yes, Zevran redemtion is still text book, but for a more mature audience). If I was 12 years old I'd be all over Alistair, but anything over 17 years I would be all Zevran (or Sten).

[TheComfyCat]

Addai67 wrote...

The Zevran crowd is a lot tougher on Anora than the Alistair harem was. Irony. LOL Your scenario is a good one, ejoslin. Though maybe I introduced a red herring by mentioning Anora.

I guess what I am getting at is this- would a part of Zevran ever miss his old life, such that if a real need arises, he would *want* to be called upon? The thing my HNF would go back and forth on would be, if she has a real need to have someone taken out, she would want it done right, by someone she trusts. At any other time she would do it herself, but as queen she has too much visibility and it would be a great risk to do it herself. Zevran himself implies to Alistair and to her that he would make his services available. However, sending Zevran off to do her dirty work would make HNF feel pretty sick at heart. It could be a scenario where she has to choose which she values more- protecting Alistair and (to throw another hypothetical out there) the miracle heir, or protecting the dignity of her friend. I'm sure that cases like that would make her say "now why did I choose that Persuade option again?"

I don't think Zevran would mind the role of "royal assassin." It seems like he ultimately wants to be free from the Crows because they made him feel worthless, not because he disliked his work as an assassin... he never seems to be bothered by the questionable morality of the profession. If he was to remain in Denerim, he would likely be the most comfortable if he was able to continue as an assassin; he'd be doing something familiar and useful that he's very skilled at. He's not really a front line fighter or a commander of armies, after all. And he'd probably get pretty bored otherwise.

EDIT: Love-zone Zevran might feel differently, since his priorities wouldn't be quite the same. But I don't think friend-zone Zev would mind.

Modifié par senorfuzzylips, 02 mars 2010 - 10:48 .

[Nonvita]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

and I know Alexander is going to try his darndest to put an heir on the throne even if the very thought of the act is not appealing expecially since his heart does belong to Zevy

Yuck, that's actually even worse of a situation than with the HNF. At least as Queen she doesn't have to actually sleep with Alistair...
You have my sympathies, CZ. And I wish you luck! :innocent:


Looks like the assassin thing is pretty divided. As always it's been interesting to hear people's thoughts!

ejoslin, my CE wasn't even smart enough to ask for something like Gwaren. Not that you can blame her--she really couldn't think clearly after Alistair died--but she ended up just asking for the one thing she really wanted- the City Elves to have representation. So, it looks like she and Zevran are going to lead very quiet lives in the future... I think it'll be nice to be out of the spotlight, in many ways, though.

[Sabriana]

Oh come on CZ. Show some charity. The one you sent over is at least qiute acceptable. I am grateful, thank you my friend.
But I do agree with you on Wynne. I wonder why it's acceptable for the males to seduce Gheyna (+ approval) but it's not for the females to seduce Cammen (-6ish). Wynne sucks plenty.
Strange, that.

Edited because typing needs all fingers involved.

Modifié par Sabriana, 02 mars 2010 - 10:49 .

[Charsen]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

If it's a m/m relationship they can always liberate a child from somewhere.

Dwarf nobles dont need to liberate a child from any where since they also ready have one

and I know Alexander is going to try his darndest to put an heir on the throne even if the very thought of the act is not appealing expecially since his heart does belong to Zevy

For queen and country... such an option is something Zevran would understand more than most.

I was totally unprepared for Morrigan's offer, by the way. I left the screen up, went to do dishes, came back, still didn't know what to say, watched some god awful thriller movie with my boyfriend, finally decided.. FINE. I'll just do it. It would be interesting to have a kid... I think? Both parents are mages, so the kid will be probably cursed too... 

Then all the business about leaving and planning it from the get-go... geez.. Thanks Morrigan, I'll just go dress up like a pigeon and dance around Shale for kicks next time.

If possible though in the sequel, my Warden would find her, if only to see that the kid isn't an abomination like his mother. Ugh. What did I do??  *fret regret fret vomit*

[sami jo]

EccentricSage wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Raiynsong wrote...

Regarding what someone said about Zevran being comfortable around people other than the warden. I'm not sure I believe that, exactly. My take on it is that with others, he can easily slip into a "persona" --the sexy assassin rake-- whereas with the warden he finds himself unable to carry that out. Maybe at the beginning it has to do with his oath but obviously as his feelings grow it has more to do with that.

I agree that the only person Zevran lets himself be himself with is the Warden.  I'm not sure that he's uncomfortable with people (he really seems to be a genuine people person) so much as, as you put it, he slips into a persona.  He does like to perform, for sure.  

It's hard to say.  When you listen to his banters, he definitely comes across as open; he laughs off insults, plays along and teases everyone, flirts, has fun.  He's genuinely a fun person, I think, with a fabulous personality.  What most people don't see, that the warden does, is the pain.  But most of us don't bleed all over everyone we speak with, even with our friends.  It's only the warden who he opens up with.  But I'm not sure that indicates comfort level -- he's just a very easy going person to begin with.  He's fun to have in a party because of that.

Gah, I am changing my mind all over the place on this.  

Well, nothing to do with comfort but . . . does anyone else go squee when he threatens people?  I swear, one of the sexiest moments in game is when he threatens to slit Anora's throat and throw her in the river.  Another one is when he tells Murdock that ingrates have a remarkably low survival rate.  WHY I love those lines, I'm not sure!  But they're sexy anyway.

Edit: Ramante, your mage file should be enough, but I wouldn't delete anything just in case!

Ah, see... this is part of why this character is dear to me.  The difference between his guarded and unguarded self.  I can say from personal experience, that under some circumstances one learns to act comfortable with people... to act open and unguarded... when realy there is a seperation.  It's hard to explain in non-personal terms, but I recognise it.

I, for example, can behave that way... joke, laugh off insults, charm strangers... it's a realy fun thing... but there is a disconect between one's self and those people you are interacting with.  They can't effect you because you will not let them effect you.  It makes you strong and adaptable, but it also makes you alone in the crowd.  And when you are away, they have no lasting meaning to you.

But, if you connect with someone, LIKE someone, they effect you.  And it is at times deaply unsettling, even as it is what any sane person lives for... to feal connected.  It really does make one more awkward with said person, or people, more shy, because in such a state you are vulnerable.

It's like your computer's firewall when interacting with the internet.  It's a firewall for interacting with people.  It keeps any ill intentions, or any repercussions of your words or actions, from haveing an devistating efect on your core programing, the way you think, who you know you are.  But when you let a connection through, let it interact, you are to some degree at the other's mercy.

I think it's something one forms if they don't fit in with normal society for whatever reason, and have known some act of betrayal after having invested their emotions in something or someone.  Just like with a computer, you're a fool if you let a virus get in again.  As long as you are keeping others out, you can be confident, but if yu are letting others in, that all goes out the window.


LOL  The idea of him threatening people, of his own free will, but in your defence, is very sexy.  It shows how powerful his sence of loyalty is, and that it's more than just because he's your indenture.  If it were only that he works for you, he'd have no reason to speek up... if you wanted him to kill someone you'd order him to.  But no, he's building a real relationship with you and WANTS to kill for you if it ever is necassary.  Unlike the others in your party, he'll go out of his way to show his willingness.  It's realy very sweet. 

I am so far behind today.  That's it exactly, EC.  That is what I find so incredibly compelling about him. 

[ejoslin]

ES and SJ, you've convinced me. Because he IS different with the warden. I think they felt an immediate connection, though; not only does Zevran comment on it once (that I can think of off hand), but the warden can tell Alistair the same.



He really does open up quickly to her, though. Is it because of the connection? or something else? Maybe it's because she's the first person who cared enough to ask him about him, and actually talk to him as a friend, not someone who was using him.

[Sabriana]

There, there.. *Pat-pats Charsen*

The kid doesn't necessarily have to be bad. What if it is really a savior?



As for making Zevran continue being an assassin. Never. He regrets it too much. He never felt all to good about it. He loves doing worthy things. None of my girls would have him do things he had to justify all over again to himself. He shows too much regret for the things he had to do. Never again.

[EccentricSage]

ejoslin wrote...

Sabriana, you're not kidding. After his talks with Shale, gah, the softy! I see he and my city elf in Gwaren, *sigh* You wonder at how the country will take that, having elves as their Teyrna and, hmmm, what would Zevran be? Even if married, I don't think he'd be the Teyrn.  Hahahaha, it's fun to think about at least!  The gossip around the country would be interesting.

Edit: I think he'd just be amused 

That's what I want to do with my CE.  It would acomplish so much more for her people in the long run.  I'm sure because she's an elf, some would be outraged and there would be plots against her, and I'm sure with Zevran none of those plots would get very far.  lol

Hmmm... I think, if the king decides you're to be honored as Teyrn, then you would be such, even if you are a foreigner.  In medieval times it wasn't uncommon for foreigners to gain seets of high power in kingdoms, ether to secure some treaty, or to reward for service, or because they are married to someone in a seat of power.  Their power would be precarious if not for their own abilities, the fact they are renowned heros, and that they are so highly favored by the king.  But at least for their lifetime, they have a lot going for them.  It's the next generation they'd have to worry about.  But the elves are a strong people, and once raised out of poverty and servitude, could quickly take their place in Ferelden as equals to the other races.

Sabriana wrote...

There, there.. *Pat-pats Charsen*
The kid doesn't necessarily have to be bad. What if it is really a savior?

As
for making Zevran continue being an assassin. Never. He regrets it too
much. He never felt all to good about it. He loves doing worthy things.
None of my girls would have him do things he had to justify all over
again to himself. He shows too much regret for the things he had to do.
Never again.

It's a matter of defining 'worthy things'.  To kill to protect those you care about is one of the worthiest things a person can do, isn't it?  He never said he regrets killing in and of it's self... just that he has regrets, and as you play through you see he has, in his mind, a sence of honor and justice.  He'd rather kill for worthy causes.  He wants to protect the person he loves.

But hey, you can RP however you want.    I just had to argue that point, because I think killing isn't inherantly bad.

ejoslin wrote...

ES and SJ, you've convinced me. Because
he IS different with the warden. I think they felt an immediate
connection, though; not only does Zevran comment on it once (that I can
think of off hand), but the warden can tell Alistair the same.

He
really does open up quickly to her, though. Is it because of the
connection? or something else? Maybe it's because she's the first
person who cared enough to ask him about him, and actually talk to him
as a friend, not someone who was using him.

I think it may be a combination of the fact that he's desperate... ether to die, or else find a reason to live... and the fact that even as your indenture, he has more freedom of expression than with the Crows... you aren't going to punish him for showing emotions... you don't expect, don't even want, for him to be hard and cold at all times as they desired.  The Warden is the one who made the decision to give that chance, and the one who talks to him on his terms and wants to get to know him.  That's all a pretty powerful combination.  I don't doubt that Taliesin may have trully cared about Zevran, but their relationship is twisted by the Crows.  So even though I believe their fealings were there, and wer powerful, they could NEVER be open about that, nor could they ever let themselves trust too completely.  When he leaves the Crows, that opression is lifted, and he can actually explore a side of himself that always was supressed as a Crow in favor of survival.

Modifié par EccentricSage, 02 mars 2010 - 11:19 .

[ejoslin]

Jaulen wrote...

Re: The Alistair Crowd being more sentimental.

We're just more realistic about the truths and choices that come with power.

I don't go to the Alistair thread any more becuase (and I know I've said it before) many of the Alistair Fan-girls have a Disneyesque idea of Prince/King and romantic love.

give me down and dirty/gritty realistic/redemtion and a more mature/evolved love over a text book fairy-tale romance anyday (yes yes yes, Zevran redemtion is still text book, but for a more mature audience). If I was 12 years old I'd be all over Alistair, but anything over 17 years I would be all Zevran (or Sten).

Heh, the Alistair crowd thinks that it's a love match.  I don't argue there, though.  Just like we all have our own version of Zevran, they all have their own version of Alistair.  Which is SO far off from my own, I wonder if we actually play the same game or do the same romance.  Alistair is such a sweet boy, and his romance is the thing that really bad novels are made of, and his character does have a lot of depth.  But I don't see the strong leader that so many do see, even when hardened.  He's wonderful when hardened, I think, but not, ummm, kingly.

He does so well with someone behind him.  He needs Anora, Eamon, or the Warden.  But with them, he does a good job.

[Sabriana]

Yes, ES, protecting the one he loves is different. But my girls would never have him go out and be an assassin again. He wants to get away from the Crows, and yes, he does contemplate going into business for himself, but that's at the beginning of the relationship.

He is far too sorry for what he had to do later on. His regrets are far too deep. None of mine would ever ask him to kill. If they have to fight, fine. But not sending him out to murder and regret once again. Never. They would be no better than the Crows.

This is, of course, my opinon. Every other play by anyone else is just as valid.

[EccentricSage]

I didn't edit my post fast enough. lol So, uh... there are further responses in the new extended version. 8D I need to stop doing that.

[Cuddlezarro]

Sabriana wrote...

Oh come on CZ. Show some charity. The one you sent over is at least qiute acceptable. I am grateful, thank you my friend.
But I do agree with you on Wynne. I wonder why it's acceptable for the males to seduce Gheyna (+ approval) but it's not for the females to seduce Cammen (-6ish). Wynne sucks plenty.
Strange, that.

Edited because typing needs all fingers involved.

Charity for that simpering idiot? nononono

[Sabriana]

Gawd you are hard to please. But I do like you, CZ.

Edited because spelling in English still sucks. Most of the time. Not that I don't like Engllish or something.

Modifié par Sabriana, 02 mars 2010 - 11:33 .

[EccentricSage]

Sabriana wrote...


Gawd you are hard to please. But I do like you, CZ.

Edited because spelling in English still sucks. Most of the time. Not that I don't like Engllish or something.

LOL  I'm a native speeker and my spelling is probably worse than yours.  XD  I just tell people I'm reinventing a poorly designed language.  Seriously... extra letters that serve no purpose... silent letters... different letters making the same sound... why?  Just... why?  I shall rebel against this silly language (with the exception of when FireFox tells me I'm wrong and my perfectionism kicks in.  aaargh)

[ejoslin]

*sigh* at that point in my game where I ask Zevran about his history with women. That is so disturbing; talking about how he grew up among ****s so his only rule is that sex is done well (ugh, he left the ****house at 7). I think the FemWarden version is less graphic, more veiled, but it is so sick and sad at the same time. And that he refers to all of that as "old scars." It's interesting, the way the original question is worded for the FemWarden -- his answer is so different from the expected answer to the question. You really can't fault him at all his outlook on sex with that kind of history.  But he really does completely open up to her at that point.

What amazes me most is that it comes to have meaning for him.

Edit: I know we've discussed this before.  But that conversation still sickens me completely.

Modifié par ejoslin, 02 mars 2010 - 11:54 .

[Sabriana]

Try German; ES. We are quite weird, I tell you

My main problem is the sentence structure. You are all talking backward, rofl.

[Cuddlezarro]

today ont he Alexander and Zev show... Xander is not in a good mood

between a certain old cow and him having "the talk" about him and Zev , Dwarven rebels trying to murder him and the Dalish's oh so nice attitude towards him... well one thing led to another and  this was the result :E




that entire conversation is pretty lulz worthy actually funnier than sleeping with her and telling him IMO

[EccentricSage]

ejoslin wrote...

*sigh* at that point in my game where I ask Zevran about his history with women. That is so disturbing; talking about how he grew up among ****s so his only rule is that sex is done well (ugh, he left the ****house at 7). I think the FemWarden version is less graphic, more veiled, but it is so sick and sad at the same time. And that he refers to all of that as "old scars." It's interesting, the way the original question is worded for the FemWarden -- his answer is so different from the expected answer to the question. You really can't fault him at all his outlook on sex with that kind of history.  But he really does completely open up to her at that point.

What amazes me most is that it comes to have meaning for him.

Edit: I know we've discussed this before.  But that conversation still sickens me completely.

It is sad.  I don't realy mind his outlook on sex, but the idea of him being sexualy abused as far back as he can remember, and that it does bother him enough that he doesn't come right out and say it, but just implies it more than once to where there is no doubt...  It puts the mentions of beatings in painful context.  And that's when it realy gets me.  *shutters*

His psychology reguarding sex is spot on for someone who was sexualy abused as well.  Another example of the nuanced writing.

Sabriana wrote...

Try German; ES. We are quite weird, I tell you
My main problem is the sentence structure. You are all talking backward, rofl.

It must all sound like Yoda to you.  XD

Modifié par EccentricSage, 03 mars 2010 - 12:14 .

[barkingM1]

ejoslin wrote...

*sigh* at that point in my game where I ask Zevran about his history with women. That is so disturbing; talking about how he grew up among ****s so his only rule is that sex is done well (ugh, he left the ****house at 7). I think the FemWarden version is less graphic, more veiled, but it is so sick and sad at the same time. And that he refers to all of that as "old scars." It's interesting, the way the original question is worded for the FemWarden -- his answer is so different from the expected answer to the question. You really can't fault him at all his outlook on sex with that kind of history.  But he really does completely open up to her at that point.

What amazes me most is that it comes to have meaning for him.

Edit: I know we've discussed this before.  But that conversation still sickens me completely.

Agreed.  Completely.  The writers seemed to have an understanding of the abused/molested child dynamic that utterly wrenches at me.

Modifié par barkingM1, 03 mars 2010 - 12:14 .

[Creature 1]

Hey everyone, wanted to apologize for being so weird a few days ago. My real life has been very bad in the last little bit and I overreacted here because of that. I stayed away a while to cool down, and when I clicked back found myself feeling relaxed to be here!

[ejoslin]

Creature 1 *hugs* I hope things are better for you now.