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[ejoslin]

Sylph_14 wrote...

You're making me want to play with my mage =D So.... whats the fastest way to get Zev in your group again?

Probably Redcliff with killing either Conner or Isolde.  Mage circle is very fast, but has the obvious problem if you want to take him to your origin.  Dalish isn't too bad, but there's a lot of running back and forth.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 janvier 2010 - 12:30 .

[_Aine_]

Sabriana wrote...

...
From that first play-through on, Zevran was it. He always will be.
And that, in a nutshell, is the appeal of Zevran. His loyalty, his depths, his never faltering love/friendship.

hideous wall of text incoming but this was so interesting for me...forgive my lack of brevity

Agree with everything you said 100%.  My first character started off with Alistair -- and then for the exact same reasons fell for Zev.  

In one way, they are alike: the use humour to deflect.  the main difference is Zev uses his humour to deflect from exposing his pain to everyone, as a protection almost - where Alistair seems to always use his to HIDE the truth, or deflect from a lie.  i didnt see that until half way through.... then, i had already been forced by Zevran to choose between them, and the silly human behind the character had decided she wanted to be Queen the first playthrough, and as there were only inklings at this point of Alistairs true nature i chose Alistair *smacks self*.  this was less than 25% into the game probably...  My character was heart-broken once I was even 50% through... knowing at this point who was the *better* man for her... but there are no second chances in Ferelden it seems.

*sheds a tear*  

My husband asks me what it is about Zev -- Why, says he, when the man is clearly at best a flirt and at worst complete sleaze can you like Zevran best (and not without a pinch of jealousy might i add lol) ?  The answer to me is simple.  When it came down to *knowing* both of them... Alistairs relationship with you was based on holding on to the last thing he had, his pain about what he had lost and he dwelled on those things. Revenge, too is living in the past, albeit angrily.  Zevran, he like myself has had a bad childhood, a life kept distant from normalcy, every reason to be bitter, especially with his forced life role.  And yet he does not dwell in the past, though he may visit it in conversation.  He lives each day with passion and joy.  Yes, his humour deflects from his inner workings and feelings, truly that is all he really truly owns I think -- when your life has been deemed forfeit, when you are owned and contracted out, why, why would you be so eager to sell off your feelings, the last thing you truly own?    

But even when sad, his life is not all about how he has been wronged, or even what HE has done wrong.  He seems to wake up each day, and make the best of it.  You could say "how immoral or wrong to be proud of his assassin tasks!" -- but that is also proof to the difference between him and Alistair -- he even looks to his work as a way to make the best of things -- he refuses to see that anyone is more or less worthy of life than anyone else and looks to at least be skilled, do his best at it.  He is intelligent, he sees in his work I think a power struggle between players in a losing political game.  A power struggle with those that lead more as tacticians of opportunity, cunning or betrayal than true idealistic leaders of men.  

In the end I was appalled at how easily it was for Alistair to make a decision (!)  solely on revenge ...  was it in the best interest of the world in wake of a blight?  That was a difficult call.  In fact, had Alistairs easy hatred not been so pronounced I might have ended up with a difference of mind... his hatred made me question whether i shouldnt have been MORE lenient instead of siding with him further.....  

I found myself going to my assassin friend looking for advice at times when none was written for me lol.  That to me was very telling about the Zevran character because in RL i tend to end up leading a lot.  Something about Zevran made me come to think of him as a good guide, judge of character, advisor -- he was my second in command if such a thing is possible.  

I guess the easiest way to describe it, is that my ultimate opinion of the two of them, Alistair and Zevran, came not from where they CAME or what they were or did...but instead who their pasts made them *aspire* to be, or what it had made them become.  I do hope that made sense  

I laugh to myself as a grown woman with a Zevran infatuation - but I think that is testament to the absolute sheer brilliance of the character. *giggles at how that sounds when re-reading what i wrote*  Whether the characters have been ingeniously fleshed out for us, or whether they have left the characters empty in precisely the spots that our unconscious fills them to fulfill our own needs...aye, now that be the rub... 

Modifié par shantisands, 10 janvier 2010 - 12:38 .

[ejoslin]

I am also a grown woman with a Zevran infatuation. I too am drawn to his inner strength; I contrast him with the other male romance figure who wallows in self pity. I love what you have to say about him. *sigh* Just such an amazing character.



Well, off to feed Ali to the archdemon. My current playthrough I don't think I triggered the "still in love" with Ali even though I had him at 96 love; so I'll have to order him to do so. It's too bad, I do like that kiss goodbye kiss, but I still think having Ali get the glory in death that he so wanted is the kindest thing to do for him!

[Jayelet]

Would you like to extend Zevran dialogues? What would have more opportunities to go deeper into their history? Even before the latest fighting, you may say, does that one gray warden must kill the arch-fiend? Not because it is one of the last companions to join you and you almost have to have 25% of the game made to know and does not seem fair, since he is someone we love so much. I will gladly exchange a knowing Laelianus and Sten by before, but this is impossible.



After this post, as long and interesting, almost creating a module that propose to expand the story of Zev for the benefit of all.

[Little Paw]

ejoslin wrote...

I am also a grown woman with a Zevran infatuation. I too am drawn to his inner strength; I contrast him with the other male romance figure who wallows in self pity. I love what you have to say about him. *sigh* Just such an amazing character.

Well, off to feed Ali to the archdemon. My current playthrough I don't think I triggered the "still in love" with Ali even though I had him at 96 love; so I'll have to order him to do so. It's too bad, I do like that kiss goodbye kiss, but I still think having Ali get the glory in death that he so wanted is the kindest thing to do for him!

No one is surprised that female players are intrigued by Zev are they? I mean, who doesn't like the coy bad guy? He's like a double weapon weiding Dalish David Bowie.
IRL I led a pretty wild life before I got married. My wife is an absolute angel, but she wanted to tame the wild guy who deep down was honest and loyal (and she did). And as a free spirit I saw the one chance to court the fair maiden. We think it's a modern fairy tale...works for us.

[ejoslin]

Little Paw wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

I am also a grown woman with a Zevran infatuation. I too am drawn to his inner strength; I contrast him with the other male romance figure who wallows in self pity. I love what you have to say about him. *sigh* Just such an amazing character.

Well, off to feed Ali to the archdemon. My current playthrough I don't think I triggered the "still in love" with Ali even though I had him at 96 love; so I'll have to order him to do so. It's too bad, I do like that kiss goodbye kiss, but I still think having Ali get the glory in death that he so wanted is the kindest thing to do for him!

No one is surprised that female players are intrigued by Zev are they? I mean, who doesn't like the coy bad guy? He's like a double weapon weiding Dalish David Bowie.
IRL I led a pretty wild life before I got married. My wife is an absolute angel, but she wanted to tame the wild guy who deep down was honest and loyal (and she did). And as a free spirit I saw the one chance to court the fair maiden. We think it's a modern fairy tale...works for us.

Sounds a bit like my marriage; it's wonderful when it works

[Jayelet]

Little Paw wrote...




No one is surprised that female players are intrigued by Zev are they? I mean, who doesn't like the coy bad guy? He's like a double weapon weiding Dalish David Bowie.
IRL I led a pretty wild life before I got married. My wife is an absolute angel, but she wanted to tame the wild guy who deep down was honest and loyal (and she did). And as a free spirit I saw the one chance to court the fair maiden. We think it's a modern fairy tale...works for us.

No, in my case is not the bad guy turned-good. But rather Zevran inner strength are facing a weak and self-pity of Alistair. Zev loves when he loves to the end, no matter what anyone says. Suget Not that you're a noble man, but you are and that's enough for Zev.

[Sylph_14]

ejoslin wrote...
Well, off to feed Ali to the archdemon. My current playthrough I don't think I triggered the "still in love" with Ali even though I had him at 96 love; so I'll have to order him to do so. It's too bad, I do like that kiss goodbye kiss, but I still think having Ali get the glory in death that he so wanted is the kindest thing to do for him!

I tried that ending once, but it bugged :[ I had him set to marry Anora, so in the end she was at the coronation alone, but everyone talked like he was still alive. It kind of gave me the creeps, like those movies where reality gets skewed and people don't realize they're in a nightmare

[ejoslin]

Sylph_14 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Well, off to feed Ali to the archdemon. My current playthrough I don't think I triggered the "still in love" with Ali even though I had him at 96 love; so I'll have to order him to do so. It's too bad, I do like that kiss goodbye kiss, but I still think having Ali get the glory in death that he so wanted is the kindest thing to do for him!

I tried that ending once, but it bugged :[ I had him set to marry Anora, so in the end she was at the coronation alone, but everyone talked like he was still alive. It kind of gave me the creeps, like those movies where reality gets skewed and people don't realize they're in a nightmare

Yeh, Anora was talking like he was still alive, and I got a slide about the king and the city elves.  I was actually more surprised that even though my PC had slept with Alistair and got to 96 love, I didn't get the Alistair "still in love" dialogs.  I suppose it does have to be at 100 love in order for that to happen.  However, he wanted to pay my PC back for all the times she saved his life, so she let him sacrifice himself.  No kiss, but all was good.

It's funny, comparing Alistair and Zevran.  On the surface, Ali is so much more appealing, he has far prettier words, he is gorgeous, but just . . . I suppose I said it before, but it's the difference between an incredibly strong man and an incredibly sweet boy.  I do like the way that Zevran will have an opinion on everything, and he's consistent.  Alistair . . . not so consistent.  And yes, I feel like the PC has to be his mama.  I like that Zevran didn't need the PC to fix him (unlike the other two romance options).  IEven his personal quest, it was all on Zevran, and it was all his choice.  Even Leliana needed to be told whether to kill Marjolaine or not.  t's actually pretty amazing that he was unbroken enough that he could actually let himself trust someone whether as a best friend or a lover.  Maybe that more than anything shows just how strong a person he is.  

[Sabriana]

shantisands wrote:
My husband asks me what it is about Zev -- Why, says he, when the man is clearly at best a flirt and at worst complete sleaze can you like Zevran best (and not without a pinch of jealousy might i add lol) ?  The answer to me is simple.  When it came down to *knowing* both of them... Alistairs relationship with you was based on holding on to the last thing he had, his pain about what he had lost and he dwelled on those things. Revenge, too is living in the past, albeit angrily.  Zevran, he like myself has had a bad childhood, a life kept distant from normalcy, every reason to be bitter, especially with his forced life role.  And yet he does not dwell in the past, though he may visit it in conversation.  He lives each day with passion and joy.  Yes, his humour deflects from his inner workings and feelings, truly that is all he really truly owns I think -- when your life has been deemed forfeit, when you are owned and contracted out, why, why would you be so eager to sell off your feelings, the last thing you truly own? 

That about says it all. Sure, Alistair had a tough life. I don't like the chantry, in none of my play-throughs, but that's because I view organisations that hold this much power all based on an idea/ideal with a weary and suspicious eye.
But compared to Zevran, his growing up was heaven on earth,  so to speak. Zevran has plenty of reasons to be bitter and broken beyond repair, but he isn't. That alone makes a strong man. He doesn't dwell on revenge, but takes what is given him, and makes the best of it.

He expected to die (he more or less says so right off the bat, when he wakes up after the ambush), but he was granted his life, and he made the best of that yet again.

The one thing that bothers him immensely is Rinna and her fate, and his role in it. He dwells on it and regrets it, and it's still churning in him. He doesn't dwell on the horrendous things that were done to him, he dwells on the one thing that he did to another. With Ailstair it's the other way around.

People write that they were turned off by his tales about assassinations. I on the other hand, believe that he purposely tried to shock my PC, just to see her reactions. He makes light of his deeds, but in unguarded moments, and with the right answers from my PC, he tells her that he does indeed regret a lot of his actions. And it has to be kept in mind that his life was not his own until he runs across my PC. She is the one who frees him from slavery.

He's not a 'bad boy', on the contrary. He's an incredibly strong man, who managed to preserve his goodness against all odds. This is an RPG game, so just try to imagine the horrors that can be inflicted on a 7-year old slave in the era that is Thedas at the time of the Blight.

The one thing that will always tell me how deeply Zevran is touched by my PC is when he pushes her into a statement about the/a possible future together before he even lays one hand on her. I do wish my PC and him the best of futures after defeating the archdemon. Maybe, against all odds, they will have a child. I do wonder what he'll tell her/him if the kid ever asks 'daddy' how he met 'mommy'

That, by they way, is another thing that I found really sweet. In the discussion with Shale he actually sounds as if he would love to create a new life (have a baby) with my PC. I would just bet he'd make a great father.

Modifié par Sabriana, 10 janvier 2010 - 08:37 .

[frostajulie]

That conversation he has with SHale shocked me completely because as much as I have a character crush on him and am surely mentally glossing over his flaws I never expected Zev to view children and child making so tenderly. It really was a powerful and endearing dialogue to witness from the leading man in almost all my playthroughs.

[ejoslin]

Agreed. First time I heard it I was stunned as well. In fact, all the dialogs where Zevran is asked about the PC I find endearing, but that one especially.

[Sylph_14]

Somehow, I always found the little 'conversations' between Zevran and the dog really adorable

[Namirsolo]

I love that when Zevran is questioned about his relationship with the PC he will always respond happily and admit openly that he likes him/her. Alistair seems to be embarrassed by it.



I especially like

Shale: I see the painted elf seeks the attention of the Grey Warden.

Zevran: He does, indeed. (I love his tone here)



On the subject of talking about his relationship with the Warden, does anyone else wonder how that conversation with Leliana must have went? The one where she says that Zevran told her he had "Been intimate" with the warden?

[Creature 1]

Namirsolo wrote...
On the subject of talking about his relationship with the Warden, does anyone else wonder how that conversation with Leliana must have went? The one where she says that Zevran told her he had "Been intimate" with the warden?

I'd be too embarrassed to speculate! 

[Namirsolo]

Creature 1 wrote...

Namirsolo wrote...
On the subject of talking about his relationship with the Warden, does anyone else wonder how that conversation with Leliana must have went? The one where she says that Zevran told her he had "Been intimate" with the warden?

I'd be too embarrassed to speculate! 

Well, I meant more how did he bring the subject up and how did she react, not details. lol

[Addai]

I've been so surprised at the tenderness apparent in the interactions with Zev, despite the fact that he still calls my character his friend, etc. and I haven't gotten the earring etc. (When is that supposed to happen anyway??) The only other character I had who had a thing with Zev just had a one- or two-night stand. I was pleasantly surprised that the love scene was different when you sleep with Zevran at Adore than when you do so at first opportunity to jump into bed. Obviously more passion and tenderness etc. Well done, devs. I still refuse to say which is "better", Alistair or Zevran, I think they are both wonderful characters. My current character, a city elf, can understand and relate to Zevran and others of my characters the same for Alistair.

[Creature 1]

Addai67 wrote...
I was pleasantly surprised that the love scene was different when you sleep with Zevran at Adore than when you do so at first opportunity to jump into bed.

If your previous character was human, you get a different cutscene for an elf.  The relationship level doesn't affect it. 

[Creature 1]

Namirsolo wrote...
Well, I meant more how did he bring the subject up and how did she react, not details. lol

Knowing Lel, she probably asked, and I wouldn't be surprised if she wanted details!

[Addai]

Creature 1 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I was pleasantly surprised that the love scene was different when you sleep with Zevran at Adore than when you do so at first opportunity to jump into bed.

If your previous character was human, you get a different cutscene for an elf.  The relationship level doesn't affect it. 

Oh that's why eh!  Interesting.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

I've been so surprised at the tenderness apparent in the interactions with Zev, despite the fact that he still calls my character his friend, etc. and I haven't gotten the earring etc. (When is that supposed to happen anyway??) The only other character I had who had a thing with Zev just had a one- or two-night stand. I was pleasantly surprised that the love scene was different when you sleep with Zevran at Adore than when you do so at first opportunity to jump into bed. Obviously more passion and tenderness etc. Well done, devs. I still refuse to say which is "better", Alistair or Zevran, I think they are both wonderful characters. My current character, a city elf, can understand and relate to Zevran and others of my characters the same for Alistair.

Zevran will always call your character his friend -- don't expect more than that. If you refer to him as your friend at at least one pivotal point, you get one of the most fantastic dialogs in the game (if you're either at love or at friendly). He will show in every way that he loves your PC, up to breaking up if he doesn't think you love him the way he loves your PC, but don't expect those words, and don't use them unless you want to hurt him. He explains why later on.

He doesn't fall in love until after he encounters his past. And it's not until then that the romance really becomes a romance. It's amazing. My one tip, don't accept gifts that don't mean anything.

On the other thing discussed here, the love scene is different for dwarves as well.  The kisses are all different as well.  And the dwarf kiss is so much better than the human and elf kiss combined I think that the devs wanted to have women making dwarves!

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 janvier 2010 - 12:36 .

[Lenimph]

As a woman ... I thought Zevran was disgusting.



In the looks department he doesn't even come close to Alistair... Zevran to me is biowares failed attempt at a sexy blonde elf(link) and tried to make him exotic by giving a puss-n-boots voice. Seriously how am I supposed to take him seriously when everytime he talks I think of a cute kitty...



He's a man ****, who's more interested in Leliana then my own PC (And Leliana is mine D:<)



Anyway meh I don't even want to talk about him, I don't want to know where... or what swamps he's wallowed through.

[Namirsolo]

Lenimph wrote...

As a woman ... I thought Zevran was disgusting.

In the looks department he doesn't even come close to Alistair... Zevran to me is biowares failed attempt at a sexy blonde elf(link) and tried to make him exotic by giving a puss-n-boots voice. Seriously how am I supposed to take him seriously when everytime he talks I think of a cute kitty...

He's a man ****, who's more interested in Leliana then my own PC (And Leliana is mine D:

Anyway meh I don't even want to talk about him, I don't want to know where... or what swamps he's wallowed through.

I don't know, he looks pretty sexy to me. If you think he is a man**** then you didn't explore the character that well. To each his own, though.

[Creature 1]

Lenimph wrote...
Anyway meh I don't even want to talk about him

You're obviously lost, I suggest a different thread. 

[Sylph_14]

Namirsolo wrote...

I don't know, he looks pretty sexy to me.

Agreed He definitely has some good looking polygons, lol

Alistair isn't bad, but his hair reminds me of every jerk I hated in high school