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[Charsen]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

only human nobles can become king Charsen

you can however become king of the dwarves though in one of the endings

Yeah that makes sense.. blast. I said i'd give a darn elf a try, now what will i do with this sassy thing 

[SurrealSadi]

well, brother kinda kicked me off after I defended the gate the first time... Ah well. I need to find something to eat and take my meds....

[EccentricSage]

Charsen wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...
It is trajickly perfect.  I wish there were more big cinamagraphic cutscenes in this game so we could make AMVs.  Imagining a Alistair music video set to this song sends chills up the spine and my heart all a flutter.  And I don't even have romantic thoughts about the guy.  lol

In my personal little comic, Dristen is DEFINETLY gonna seduce him.  lol  I haven't decided what ending yet.  Dristen is NOT going to US, that much I know.  And Zev is always by his side, and Al is Dristen's buddy, so I'm sure he'd be on friendly terms with Zev by that point. 

Oh that's a set up for a heartbreak any way you cut it  
I think my next run will be my selfish brat elf, not sure if I should go mage/city or dalish with him though. Probably dalish or mage again. I think he'll become king & keep Zevran as a consort if that's possible.

On a similar note, for Zevran... 

Don't worry, Dristen isn't in love with Al... but what's a little pleasure between friends?    Though I am anxious about the ending... Dristen won't sacrafice himself, but he wants Al to be happy, without forcing Al to do anything that goes against his beliefs... Dristen might make the god child himself, but from his Dalish perspective it's a really troubling thought to make a child for such a reson... I mean... will the child be a person, but possessed?  Is this akin to placing an unbearable burden on an innocent?  Akin to a sacrafice, but in reverse?  Maybe I should spare Loghain after convincing Al to become king?  Ugh... Alistair, why can't you make the best of situations?  >_<  And ultimately, I don't want to totaly metagame this... I have to force myself to play it from Dristen's perspective, and I think he truly wants to let Alistair execute Loghain...

And add to this mess the fact that Morrigan and Dristen had a romance early on before Zev stole his heart...

Oh man... decisions decisions.


Oh, nice song.  It's rare to see anyone do pop well.  Totaly wasn't expecting a streight up pop song from Muse.  lol 

I think Bodies by Smashing Pumpkins sums up the termoil under the surface of Zev's romance... the terrible fear deap down, the desire to sacrafice anything just to be valued by someone. 

www.youtube.com/watch

Charsen wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

only human nobles can become king Charsen

you can however become king of the dwarves though in one of the endings

Yeah that makes sense.. blast. I said i'd give a darn elf a try, now what will i do with this sassy thing [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]

You can still become Tyrne, I think.

Modifié par EccentricSage, 05 mars 2010 - 08:23 .

[Sabriana]

Loghain always survives, and he can redeem himself later on. I always feel bad for Alistair, but there are reasons my PC lets Loghain live. I'm not going to get into them, it's up to each player after all, and that's only right.

I see dedication is still going at full tilt, Sadi. Go get 'em girl.



CZ, Loghain's and Morrigan's talk is too funny. I've only watched it, because, sorry Morri, but with so little information forthcoming from you there will be no baby.



Okay, I'll have to go backward now to read all these pages. You people! Well, I'll get some coffee and close the door. I don't have a client coming until 9:45 a.m., so I've got 20 minutes to catch up.

[Minaleth]

I am reading through this very interesting thread currently at the page 45.

Basically I have to agree with ejoslin and Sabriana wrote.



Zevran's romance seem to be mature, really sweet and I was very satisfied with the ending. When I was listening to Alistair speeches I had this "omg, not high school again" feeling. Speaking as a player now.



Considering RP, at one point of my first playthrough the efl mage was romancing Zev, Alistair and Lel. Well, she is nice and can't resist flirting so she probably said something to each of them *nervous giggle*. When Alistair offered her the rose she was really flattered and for a moment she considered their future. Being a bit manipulative, comfortable with leading role with tiny little spark of power-hungry she imagined it could be wonderful to possibly become a Queen of Ferelden (with handsome King to order around). But in next second she did the counting and realized that an elf, on the top of that a mage and on the top of top of that a freaking Gray Warden will never ever be allowed to rule this country. So she dropped the idea and got back to Zevran's tent where she belong. She never told him about this, but rewarded him with some extra attention as reprisal for her stupid thoughts. The mage and Zevran stayed to rebuild the Grey Wardens and then possibly head back to Antiva to take over the Crows or something.



I haven't been spoiled very much so I didn't know it's not possible to become Queen if not human noble. If the mage accepted Alistair's proposal and he dumped her, he would be probably very dead by now.



I am planning my next better informed playthrough (with excessive completion of every quest possible) considering either dwarf warrior or dalish rogue. But I know the Warden will fall for Zevran again, do not doubt that.

[Sabriana]

And if you have any questions, Minaleth, just ask. And may I recommend the very nice, extensive Zevran FAQ by Ejoslin. It's in her signature line.

And welcome, btw.

There is also some nice info and cool pictures in the "Team Zevran: We are ridiculously awesome" group. Dedicated, yes, you guessed it, to Zevran.

Edited, for a good reason

Group's that a-way

http://social.bioware.com/group/1612/

Modifié par Sabriana, 05 mars 2010 - 09:11 .

[ejoslin]

Welcome Minaleth,



If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I have a FAQ, but it has huge spoilers in it -- I'm not sure how spoiler free you want your next game to be. But I agree with you so much; romancing Zevran seems to be between two equals, whereas when my Wardens romance Alistair, there's a maternal element there. I do enjoy the Alistair romance as it has some beautiful moments, but I just can't seem to NOT do the Zevran one.

[Sabriana]

Ohh, hey, check this out. It puts a whole other light on Morrigan and the ritual. Especially Morrigan as a friend or lover of the GW. I wonder why they left it out of the game?

Perhaps because not all PCs will befriend/romance her, and that would make this part unusable. It would only make sense if she didn't offer the ritual to someone she dislikes/feels nothing for.

blog.bioware.com/

[Minaleth]

Well, I've already read a lot from dialogues I didn't take the first time. Especially brakeups, Sacrifice ending, Alistair/Zev/PC trio ending. Because I can never do that since I am softie.



I didn't even refuse the earring the first time in spite that I knew he 'proposes' second time. I just couldn't. Between the lines I read: "Please don't make me fully admit my feelings, you see what it is all about, so just accept the gift and make me happy." And I did. So much for my role play, haha.



And doubt I can do the Ultimate Sacrifice, because Morrigan brings Zevran up, saying something "You don't want to die, just imagine how would he feel." I was actually considering that I give Rioirdan a try or I would do the Sacrifice myself to prevent future god-baby disaster. But when she said that I swear I just stopped breathing and the thing was decided quickly much to my mage's liking (she is manipulative **** sometimes and throwing Alistair into Morrigan's hands was... well tempting).



Anyway I want to clarify - does it change something if the PC doesn't go to tent with Zevran until he changes Adore(100) status to Love(100) status (not inviting him and refusing his invitation)? I thought I give this shot to see. The information I got on this so far is confusing. But I don't want any spoilers if the answer is yes.

[ejoslin]

Minaleth wrote...

Well, I've already read a lot from dialogues I didn't take the first time. Especially brakeups, Sacrifice ending, Alistair/Zev/PC trio ending. Because I can never do that since I am softie.

I didn't even refuse the earring the first time in spite that I knew he 'proposes' second time. I just couldn't. Between the lines I read: "Please don't make me fully admit my feelings, you see what it is all about, so just accept the gift and make me happy." And I did. So much for my role play, haha.

And doubt I can do the Ultimate Sacrifice, because Morrigan brings Zevran up, saying something "You don't want to die, just imagine how would he feel." I was actually considering that I give Rioirdan a try or I would do the Sacrifice myself to prevent future god-baby disaster. But when she said that I swear I just stopped breathing and the thing was decided quickly much to my mage's liking (she is manipulative **** sometimes and throwing Alistair into Morrigan's hands was... well tempting).

Anyway I want to clarify - does it change something if the PC doesn't go to tent with Zevran until he changes Adore(100) status to Love(100) status (not inviting him and refusing his invitation)? I thought I give this shot to see. The information I got on this so far is confusing. But I don't want any spoilers if the answer is yes.

The answer is, for the most part, no.  There are some minor dialog changes, not with the tent scene itself (before or after), but before, when Zevran is still sorting out his feelings, and they are VERY minor and make no difference as far as the romance plays out. If you're on a PC, you may want to install "dialog tweaks" as you get a nicer pre- and post- tent conversation.

Modifié par ejoslin, 05 mars 2010 - 01:10 .

[Minaleth]

Sabriana wrote...
Ohh, hey, check this out. It puts a whole other light on Morrigan and the ritual. Especially Morrigan as a friend or lover of the GW. I wonder why they left it out of the game? 
Perhaps because not all PCs will befriend/romance her, and that would make this part unusable. It would only make sense if she didn't offer the ritual to someone she dislikes/feels nothing for.
blog.bioware.com/

I have read that, I stalk aimo's awesomeness
I have had Morrigan at 100 friendly at the end, so the final dialogues were very emotional and this is another interesting puzzle piece. I really came to like her once she turned out to be a friend.

[Sabriana]

Minaleth wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
Ohh, hey, check this out. It puts a whole other light on Morrigan and the ritual. Especially Morrigan as a friend or lover of the GW. I wonder why they left it out of the game? 
Perhaps because not all PCs will befriend/romance her, and that would make this part unusable. It would only make sense if she didn't offer the ritual to someone she dislikes/feels nothing for.
blog.bioware.com/

I have read that, I stalk aimo's awesomeness
I have had Morrigan at 100 friendly at the end, so the final dialogues were very emotional and this is another interesting puzzle piece. I really came to like her once she turned out to be a friend.

None of my PCs have allowed the ritual yet. Loghain gets to do the honor of slaying the archdemon. I did the sacrifice once and the ending and epilogue actually made me cringe. So I reloaded, I could not let this stand. I never want to see it again (with my PC lying dead), so Loghain was my only choice.

I can't bring myself to let Alistair die, I rather have him angry at my PC. It looks like he's getting over that after the battle anyways, and it might even help him grow up more.

But if I had seen a scene like in the comic-strip, I  might have considered letting Morrigan have the baby. It looks to me as if she is doing something for the PC not for herself.

Morrigan crying. Now I've seen it all.

My PCs all end up friends with her, even though she sure disapproves a lot. Perhaps it's because her disapproval dings aren't too high.

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
The answer is, for the most part, no.  There are some minor dialog changes, not with the tent scene itself (before or after), but before, when Zevran is still sorting out his feelings, and they are VERY minor and make no difference as far as the romance plays out. If you're on a PC, you may want to install "dialog tweaks" as you get a nicer pre- and post- tent conversation.

Thanks, I will consider moding the game. I need to do it because of helmets and hairstyles, so it won't be vanilla anyway.
By the way, your FAQ is awesome. Good job.

[Minaleth]

Sabriana wrote...
None of my PCs have allowed the ritual yet. Loghain gets to do the honor of slaying the archdemon. I did the sacrifice once and the ending and epilogue actually made me cringe. So I reloaded, I could not let this stand. I never want to see it again (with my PC lying dead), so Loghain was my only choice. 

I plan to do this next. I sort of think Loghain might deserve to redeem himself.
Since romance with Zev is inevitable, my PC will never sacrifice herself. I've just had enough reading about it in this thread, I am sure it would leave me in tears for days. No way.
Sacrificing Alistair is interesting idea as ejoslin suggested - he might enjoy the glorious death, but I don't know yet if this is doable for me (too much fuss over pixels, isn't it).

[ejoslin]

 Awww, thanks for the nice words about my FAQ.  If you have any suggestions, please let me know!  It's very much a work in progress.

Regarding Alistair sacrificing himself -- I love this screenshot.  A still in love (dumped) Alistair about to kiss my warden goodbye, while Zevran looks on.  I like to think of Zevran and my warden there both so grateful to Alistair at the chance for their life together.

Modifié par ejoslin, 05 mars 2010 - 01:42 .

[Sabriana]

*tears her eyes away from Ejoslin's screenie - with difficulty*

I want to see that one too, but I still shy away from killing off Alistair. In my first game he simply took the initiative away from my mage, and I swear I never saw that kiss. He was at high friendly, and at one point in love before he publicly dumped her.

Zevran was in love with her fer sure.

I know that Ali would love to go out in a blaze of glory, but thanks to me knowing that he gets just shrugged off by Anora (by everyone, actually) was hurtful.

My other reasons are:
1. I don't want Anora to rule alone
2. I don't want Anora to rule alone
3. I don't want Anora to rule alone

Many think she's a competent ruler, but I disagree. She is a competent administrator, but has no use for the people under her care. She is just not in tune with the population, especially with the elfs.

[ejoslin]

Those are four VERY good reasons. I actually am bothered by how little people care about what happened to Alistair at the end as well. The sad thing about the final kiss is that only two options give you it -- there are two options where you won't get it. But that ending, especially with the kiss, just feels SO right at that moment.



It's funny with Anora telling a city elf how she's ruled for the past five years, not realizing (or not caring) how horrible things have been in the alienage for that time (and longer).



One thing that bothers me about my HNFs . . . this is pure metagaming. As bad as the alienage in Denerim is, the one in Highever must have been as bad as Nelaros was moving from Highever to Denerim. And it's not like she objects to Nan threatening to beat the kitchen elves. AND she tells Iona how attractive she finds elves. Heh, her falling in love with Zevran is such a complete change for her as well.



Gah, need to finish my city elf . . . Then I'll play another HNF with that thought in mind. *grin*

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
Regarding Alistair sacrificing himself -- I love this screenshot.  A still in love (dumped) Alistair about to kiss my warden goodbye, while Zevran looks on.  I like to think of Zevran and my warden there both so grateful to Alistair at the chance for their life together.

...and then Alistair turns to face the archdemon, Zevran grabs Warden's arm and pulls her really close. Having the most protective look on his face.
(In some situations I just have to add something non canon.)

Well, yeah, that is an interesting view and I think your explanation is plausible, but who knows. The game is quite ambiguous in several situations and sentences letting the player decide on the meaning.

Modifié par Minaleth, 05 mars 2010 - 02:26 .

[Sabriana]

My HNF are a bit different, but still they are a product of their time. For example, my bestest girl ever was quite rude to Nan, because she did not like the elven servants treated like that. Ser Gilmore had to intervene here. (I so wish my PC could've just slung him over her shoulders and take him with her. It would make the whole Zevran 'thing' a bit spicier, because she had quite a crush on Gilmore. Zevran would've won out in the end, but it would not have been easy for her to choose - definitely not as easy as with Alistair)

She talked to Iona, but was very nice, if a bit nosy.

She doesn't have any idea how the elves are living in the alienages. It never even occured to her that it was a terrible way to have others live. Goodness, the girl was utterly shocked in Denerim's alienage, and because she was deeply in love with Zevran by then, she felt very guilty.

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
One thing that bothers me about my HNFs . . . this is pure metagaming. As bad as the alienage in Denerim is, the one in Highever must have been as bad as Nelaros was moving from Highever to Denerim. And it's not like she objects to Nan threatening to beat the kitchen elves. AND she tells Iona how attractive she finds elves. Heh, her falling in love with Zevran is such a complete change for her as well.

Personally I think that the whole concept of destroyed elven culture is rather unusual in fantasy setting, so we could easily forget about how awful the live at alienage might be. I think even writers might forget time to time (+ some dialogues do not to reflect to PC origin as they should - like Alistair asking the HN if s/he lost someone). 
Even more if you have Zev with you and see how he has no problem being an elf (has other issues with origin but this is certainly not one of them). 
During the elven mage origin it has been only hinted that elves has it hard, but if was nothing serious. Mage is mage in the Circle.
If you rethink the whole elves concept from human noble perspective and consider all the details, roleplaying Zev's romace with HN can be really something. And in contrary e.g. city elf romancing Alistair could be interesting roleplay thing, but I doubt the game supports that to details.

[ejoslin]

Heh, my warden DID suggest that they put Nan down, but no one insults Fido like that!



Cailin was also kept sheltered from the truth of how elves were treated. Anora I think had full knowledge. I'm pretty sure Elissa had no clue either, really; Leliana in her racist comment to an elf, though, pretty much sums that up for me. She just had no idea the way she looked at things was wrong (I really like what Lel says to an elf, actually, and the way she reacts and realizes how messed up the thoughts are).



Ok, Alistair and Anora will be a happy couple again. As much as my city elf does not like Anora, she trusts Alistair. *sigh* Off to the denerim estate! The earring has been offered and rejected, but they haven't been back to camp yet. I'm trying to draw this out like Addai67 does, but I have to admit it's REALLY hard.



@Minaleth, I love the way so many interpretations work in this game, and how you can get the dialog to back everything up! Like when Wynne apologizes, I always choose, "But I've seen it from the very start," because I like to think that Zevran was falling in love from the very start. But you don't have to see it that way, and you can just select something else that also backs up how it was casual but turned deep.

[Ramante]

I'm still in Orzammar with my elven mage. I didn't side with Harrowmont thanks to Zevran's comments about him being a weak leader. So I did the first part of Behlen's quest line and then I decided to double-cross him and side with Harrowmont. I expected something from Zev about siding with Harrowmont, but nothing happened (I guess he forgot ). The only thing I got was a 'betrayal is a coward's path' from Sten. Gotta love him.

[Sabriana]

Hey, I'm in Orzammar with my amazon 2. Maybe we'll run into each other



I pick "I saw that from the start" each and every time. Because Zevran does start trusting her almost right away, as soon as she shows him kindness and doesn't simply ignore him. After all, she shows remarkable mercy and compassion in letting him not only live, but promises to help him shake lose from the Crows.



Yeah, the "oh. I forgot" line gets me every time. My HN lost everything in one night, and her brother is MIA. I'm sure the elf and Alistair can get a semi-happy ending, can't they go off together? The elf can even ask Anora to lighten the load the elves have to carry. I'm pretty sure that's possible, Minaleth.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Hey, I'm in Orzammar with my amazon 2. Maybe we'll run into each other

I pick "I saw that from the start" each and every time. Because Zevran does start trusting her almost right away, as soon as she shows him kindness and doesn't simply ignore him. After all, she shows remarkable mercy and compassion in letting him not only live, but promises to help him shake lose from the Crows.

Yeah, the "oh. I forgot" line gets me every time. My HN lost everything in one night, and her brother is MIA. I'm sure the elf and Alistair can get a semi-happy ending, can't they go off together? The elf can even ask Anora to lighten the load the elves have to carry. I'm pretty sure that's possible, Minaleth.

Anyone can have a happy ending with Alistair, she just can't be queen.  But they can rebuild the grey wardens together, or she sometimes can be his mistress (which I think is a happy ending, truthfully -- seeing as how I do that to Zevran in most of my HNF playthroughs, though I suppose one difference is Ali and my HNF never do the nasty, and I would assume that Alistair would with his wife).

[Sabriana]

Oho, I wonder what would happen if Alistair gets his mistress pregnant (mage, elf or dwarf) but not his wife. I know it would be a long shot, but it could happen.

I also think it's far more likely that Zevran can create a child with the Queen than Alistair. But that would not be a problem, because I don't think anyone would dare question the kids paternity. Just whispers and gossip about why the prince, although human, looks so much like a certain elf.