35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Nonvita]

senorfuzzylips wrote...

Looking at the situation from
that angle makes Morrigan's character seem so much deeper. It kinda
feels like something is missing without a scene like that, now...

I respectfully disagree. I prefer the game without that scene, as I feel it influences our opinions too much despite our characters not knowing about it. As it is, you can only decide to trust or not trust Morrigan based on how your character personally feels. I think it's more intriguing that way, especially since there are some signs of her regret in the game conversation, though they are small.

I do find the scene interesting, however, and am curious if other things were changed before the final version. It doesn't really fit in with the rest of how things played out, to me at least. It's definitely a thought provoking new change of perspective, though. I especially like to ponder how Alistair would have taken something like that...
(And it makes me feel worse for turning down the deal with Alistair romanced... =P Oo, I wonder how the Alistair fangirls feel about it, what with them being all "I could never make him do such a terrible thing!")

Modifié par Nonvita, 05 mars 2010 - 09:06 .

[Sabriana]

Pfhe. That's lame, CZ. Well, at least your PCMale gets a nice approval rise from Wynne.

*ducks, because of the sudden appearance of flying shoes*



I so agree Fuzzy. That scene puts such a different spin on things. And Zevran is the one who gives out the best advice, so asking him for his opinion is not far-fetched at all. I does give a great indication how she has grown through friendship, just as Zevran has grown through love.

[Addai]

I might be dense, or experiencing Friday-afternoon-but-not-yet-time-to-go-home brain, but what is that comic with Morrigan and Alistair trying to say? Is that Morrigan asking Alistair in veiled terms whether she should propose the ritual?

[jenovan]

Nonvita wrote...

I respectfully disagree. I prefer the game without that scene, as I feel it influences our opinions too much despite our characters not knowing about it. As it is, you can only decide to trust or not trust Morrigan based on how your character personally feels. I think it's more intriguing that way, especially since there are some signs of her regret in the game conversation, though they are small.

I do find the scene interesting, however, and am curious if other things were changed before the final version. It doesn't really fit in with the rest of how things played out, to me at least. It's definitely a thought provoking new change of perspective, though. I especially like to ponder how Alistair would have taken something like that...
(And it makes me feel worse for turning down the deal with Alistair romanced... =P Oo, I wonder how the Alistair fangirls feel about it, what with them being all "I could never make him do such a terrible thing!")

This is a good point... at the moment I can't think of another example of a conversation between two NPCs that has such a HUGE effect on 1) the PC and 2) the player's opinion of the character.  For that matter, conversations between NPCs like that are rare -- the only other one coming to mind is when Zevran is hired.  Hmm, I suppose that may shade a player's opinion towards Zevran, now that I think about it.   But (I hate to say it, but it's technically true!) saving Zevran or killing him does not have nearly the same impact on the game as taking the Dark Ritual.  The scene in the comic might sway players too far to sympathize with Morrigan, vs. having to judge by what she says in the actual Ritual scene.

But yeah, I do wonder what a person with a femPC romancing Alistair makes of that. XD  Especially if they aren't friends with Morrigan

[Ramante]

Addai67 wrote...

I might be dense, or experiencing Friday-afternoon-but-not-yet-time-to-go-home brain, but what is that comic with Morrigan and Alistair trying to say? Is that Morrigan asking Alistair in veiled terms whether she should propose the ritual?

I think she is checking if he is willing to 'move the world' to save his love. Though I don't really get it either, when I got to the last page of the comic I had the idea that it was not complete. Something was missing: 'Is this it?'

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

I've never gotten the 'stare' line either, Ramante. I thought it would only appear if the romance is turned off, and I don't want to turn it off. It's too dangerous because chances are it can't be turned on again.

Thanks senorfuzzylips (if you don't mind, can I shorten it to senor? It is a hilarious screenie but it takes a long time to type, relatively speaking) I didn't know the PC could get that if she waits to turn on the romance. I will try that.

Jenovan and Creature, stop talking in code. I have a hard enough time with all the slang english.

CZ, what's the console command to turn the Zevran romance back on? In case I mess up with trying to get the 'stare' line. If it's a sekkrit, there's always the PM *is done hinting and grovelling*

That comic is incredibly intriguing. At least it is to me. You see, she was always my friend, and it really bothered me that my PC had to deny her request and she just leaves. Somebody somewhere in these forums mentions that it's in the toolset that Morrigan is entirely selfish in her plans. Of course, I don't have the toolset. *shakes fist at MSSQL*

"Stare at you" is a romance starter line.  If you HAVEN'T either started the romance or permanently ended it by 26+ warm, you will get that.

[TheComfyCat]

Nonvita wrote...

senorfuzzylips wrote...

Looking at the situation from
that angle makes Morrigan's character seem so much deeper. It kinda
feels like something is missing without a scene like that, now...

I respectfully disagree. I prefer the game without that scene, as I feel it influences our opinions too much despite our characters not knowing about it. As it is, you can only decide to trust or not trust Morrigan based on how your character personally feels. I think it's more intriguing that way, especially since there are some signs of her regret in the game conversation, though they are small.

I do find the scene interesting, however, and am curious if other things were changed before the final version. It doesn't really fit in with the rest of how things played out, to me at least. It's definitely a thought provoking new change of perspective, though. I especially like to ponder how Alistair would have taken something like that...
(And it makes me feel worse for turning down the deal with Alistair romanced... =P Oo, I wonder how the Alistair fangirls feel about it, what with them being all "I could never make him do such a terrible thing!")

It really only fits if you're a female PC that becomes friends with Morrigan and also trusts her.

If you play as a less trusting Warden that never really buys into the Morrigan's sincerity at any point (which makes more sense, since she's clearly hiding things from you), then the scene really would have to be altered.

You're right that it would alter the player's decision... which is probably why it wouldn't work in-game. The game is mostly (aside from the Loghain cut scenes) told from the first person, and unless you talk to Alistair to hear about the convo with Morrigan fom his perspective.... ya, there's a metagaming problem.

[Ramante]

ejoslin wrote...
"Stare at you" is a romance starter line.  If you HAVEN'T either started the romance or permanently ended it by 26+ warm, you will get that.

FAQ material.

I'll try that in my next human mage playthrough... I really don't like my elven mage, I went to all that trouble to save her, but I don't like her. Arcane Warrior doesn't work for me. x.x'

[SurelyForth]

Addai67 wrote...

I might be dense, or experiencing Friday-afternoon-but-not-yet-time-to-go-home brain, but what is that comic with Morrigan and Alistair trying to say? Is that Morrigan asking Alistair in veiled terms whether she should propose the ritual?

Pretty much. It shows that she is struggling with the ritual because she knows how it will sound to the PC- especially one who is romancing her or Alistair- and she doesn't know how to process it because, well, she's Morrigan. The way I see it, she is looking to Alistair for justification for going through with it because she recognizes that it's a huge thing to ask of someone, especially someone you care about, and yet it will save a life.

I like it because it not only shows Morrigan truly feels something for the Warden (male or female), it also indicates some degree of respect for Alistair. The ritual is her duty, and she ends up asking the most dutiful of the companions for advice.

[ejoslin]

Hmmmm, Morrigan and the ritual. There's nothing about it that isn't selfish, from anyone's point of view. I do think, though, that Morrigan grows to care about the Warden, very much so, and wants to save her life by the end.

[Sabriana]

You do make a good point, Nonvita. However, the reason my PCs don't let her do the ritual is her vagueness about it.

What makes it intriguing is that Morrigan answers Alistair's remark of "you have a friend?" with "only one" To me it shows that Morrigan is actually feeling friendship toward the Warden and it's not only manipulations to fulfill her agenda. Morrigan does not want the warden to die, and her crying indicates to me that the ritual is something she does *for* the warden, not for herself. She actually has to force herself to go through with it, crying bitter tears about it.

The "I warned her" makes not much sense, unless there were other scenes that were cut. Perhaps there were talks about the Warden who kills the archdemom and her/his inevitable death, a la Zevran.

[ejoslin]

Ramante wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
"Stare at you" is a romance starter line.  If you HAVEN'T either started the romance or permanently ended it by 26+ warm, you will get that.

FAQ material.

I'll try that in my next human mage playthrough... I really don't like my elven mage, I went to all that trouble to save her, but I don't like her. Arcane Warrior doesn't work for me. x.x'

it's in there already!  Not as it's own point, but as a romance starter line.

I don't like arcane warrior either -- if I'm going to be wearing plate, I'm going to be dual wielding pointing things and doing massive damage!  I love blood mage, though. Probably because they're a bit overpowered if built right (LOTS of hitpoints) and I like feeling completely powerful.

[SurelyForth]

Sabriana wrote...


The "I warned her" makes not much sense, unless there were other scenes that were cut. Perhaps there were talks about the Warden who kills the archdemom and her/his inevitable death, a la Zevran.

There's a dialogue you can have after you kill Flemeth where you can tell her that she can always count on you and she hints very heavily that something will happen that will change your opinion of her. I assume that the "I warned her" could be referring to that.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 05 mars 2010 - 09:39 .

[Creature 1]

Sabriana wrote...

You do make a good point, Nonvita. However, the reason my PCs don't let her do the ritual is her vagueness about it.
What makes it intriguing is that Morrigan answers Alistair's remark of "you have a friend?" with "only one" To me it shows that Morrigan is actually feeling friendship toward the Warden and it's not only manipulations to fulfill her agenda. Morrigan does not want the warden to die, and her crying indicates to me that the ritual is something she does *for* the warden, not for herself. She actually has to force herself to go through with it, crying bitter tears about it.
The "I warned her" makes not much sense, unless there were other scenes that were cut. Perhaps there were talks about the Warden who kills the archdemom and her/his inevitable death, a la Zevran.

I'm sure there's something in it for Morrigan as well, not all charity. 

[Cuddlezarro]

[quote]The "I warned her" makes not much sense, unless there were other scenes that were cut. Perhaps there were talks about the Warden who kills the archdemom and her/his inevitable death, a la Zevran.[quote]



the "I warned her" does make sense since there is a conversation how she will not always be worthy of her friendship



plus theres the romance version as well

[TheComfyCat]

The comic also seems to suggest that Morrigan might not have made the offer at all (even though the god baby is supposed to be the real reason she's there), due to her friendship with the Warden... but the circumstances push her to still offer it to ensure the Warden's safety/happiness (instead of her motivations being purely selfish).

[Addai]

Nonvita wrote...

Oo, I wonder how the Alistair fangirls feel about it, what with them being all "I could never make him do such a terrible thing!")

I'm an Alistair fangirl and I've never turned down the ritual.  Well, once but only to check a Zevran epilogue screen.  Of course I don't like it, but to save his life or my PC's, no question.  I heart Morrigan and all my characters end up friends with her, so that affects things no doubt.

[jenovan]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

The "I warned her" makes not much sense, unless there were other scenes that were cut. Perhaps there were talks about the Warden who kills the archdemom and her/his inevitable death, a la Zevran.

the "I warned her" does make sense since there is a conversation how she will not always be worthy of her friendship

plus theres the romance version as well

Yep, if you're a male PC and you get to Love with her, she all but pushes you away from her and if you try to stick with her, I believe she even says something like you'll regret it.   (If you break up with her right then, though, you only lose 10 approval -- being away from her will make it easier for her to do her task, now won't it... )

[Ramante]

ejoslin wrote...

Ramante wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
"Stare at you" is a romance starter line.  If you HAVEN'T either started the romance or permanently ended it by 26+ warm, you will get that.

FAQ material.

I'll try that in my next human mage playthrough... I really don't like my elven mage, I went to all that trouble to save her, but I don't like her. Arcane Warrior doesn't work for me. x.x'

it's in there already!  Not as it's own point, but as a romance starter line.

I don't like arcane warrior either -- if I'm going to be wearing plate, I'm going to be dual wielding pointing things and doing massive damage!  I love blood mage, though. Probably because they're a bit overpowered if built right (LOTS of hitpoints) and I like feeling completely powerful.

The fact is not that she dies a lot, but it is really annoying that she switches to her shield & sword at the most stupid moments. And from all warrior classes I find shield & sword the most boring = not helping.

I don't know if I should keep her, she's my first Zevran romance and that romance isn't even complete yet (no love and Taliesen encounter). That makes her special, but that's all... Next problem is I got a lot of characters in waiting; 1 MHN, 1 FHN and 1 MDE. So starting another one makes it a very long list (though I only need the males to romance Lel and Mor). I want a human mage and city elf (both Zev' romances)

[Minaleth]

jenovan wrote...
The scene in the comic might sway players too far to sympathize with Morrigan, vs. having to judge by what she says in the actual Ritual scene.
But yeah, I do wonder what a person with a femPC romancing Alistair makes of that. XD  Especially if they aren't friends with Morrigan

I bet there are few reason why this scene was not included in final version.
Fem PC romancing Alistair doesn't know this happened. I think neither of them tell her. So from RP point of view it doesn't matter. From players point of view ... well, I think it gains Morrigan some points
But for hopeless believers in goodness in people - no surprise. By the end I was in love with this character and thought she is nice person... somewhere really deep inside.

Anyway it would be nice to talk to Zev about the ritual offer. My PC would at least inform him how bad, weak and selfish person she is that she accepted so easily, helped to create the god-child and possible doom for whole Thedas just because her friend played unfair (mentioning Zev) and messed with her feelings. I would love to know his reply, I assume it would be something like "Thank Maker you are like this." XD

[Sabriana]

Ah, thanks SurelyForth and CZ. I must not have picked the right dialogue, and I never romanced her, because my PCs are all female.



Creature, that was always my pov until I saw that strip. A crying Morrigan saying 'weakness' is very compelling that she is doing something for the Warden. You see, all through the game, Morrigan seems proud of her manipulation skills. That's the reason my PCs won't allow the ritual. They are friends with her all are right around the 100 mark with her, but her hedginess (might be a word, might not be, take it for what it's worth) always puts them off. If the writers could have put something like "Tis for the best, I will not betray you, you've trusted me so far, trust me further" in the conversation, my PCs might have reconsidered.

[soulsweeper87]

I finished the Broken Circle quest today and managed to get some nice screenshots.

My Sasha Aeducan protecting Zevran (this 'frightened' pose cracks me up every time)


Zevran trying to convince Sasha to spare mages. I can't believe I'd never seen it before, it's telling so much about him. I only wish I could actually be persuaded. As it is, I had to reload. I can never bring myself to side with the templars.

[Sresla]

Who's to say that Zevran doesn't know about the ritual? I suppose it depends on your character, but for me, Zevran finds Morrigan in my room (where else would Zevran be, the night before the battle) and confronts her about what she's doing there. Morrigan and Zevran's relationship is fairly strained, he's never trusted her or even liked her much, innuendo aside (it's just for show). Morrigan flat out tells Zevran that she's going to use him as a bargaining chip to get what she wants from the Warden, the whole reason she didn't condemn their relationship from the start. That's roughly how it goes, anyway.

[Ramante]

soulsweeper87 wrote...
Zevran trying to convince Sasha to spare mages. I can't believe I'd never seen it before, it's telling so much about him. I only wish I could actually be persuaded. As it is, I had to reload. I can never bring myself to side with the templars.

I tried to read it, no succes. xD
Nice shot though.

[Sabriana]

I did that too. I listened to his plea, reloaded, and pretended my PC was swayed by his words. Because she was. Simple as that.

True enough about Zevran being in my PCs room, Sresla. I don't even know why Sten was there and not Zevran. He is her love interest, after all. However, my PC likes Morrigan and is a friend to her. She hated to turn her request down. Zevran's input would have been so appreciated.

Great pics, Soulsweeper. But then again, Zevran pictures don't hardly ever fail