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[sami jo]

ejoslin wrote...

sami jo wrote...

@ejoslin: I did the whole Taleisin encounter, tent refusal, second earring offer last night. *squee* I hadn't done that before. I didn't get the "Maybe it would be better for you if we end this." line at all. It was never an option. The entire tent refusal conversation was very different, in fact. Perhaps it was because he was at +100? I gave him his boots after the earring refusal. He basically confessed that he loved the Warden during the tent refusal and said he was confused. I'll replay it again to get the specific dialogue. It was after 3 am.

@CZ: Those pics were hilarious.

CZ:

Hmmm, right after he declares his feelings, just before he offers the earring again, you should be able to select:

1. I am no wiser than you in this area, Zevran.
2. I do, and I feel the same way.
3. I don't feel the same way, I'm sorry.
4. Maybe it would be better for you if we stopped.

1 and 4 will lead to the second offering of the earring, 2 will lead to that being skipped but still a nice conclusion, and 3 will end up with a breakup.  4 really does give the best dialog -- I'm sorry you didn't have that option because what he says there is SO sweet. 

The tent refusals are different if you haven't been to the tent with him yet, and they are  cute if you haven't, especially if you get him snapping about not wanting to talk about "feelings."  But I think they're minor because they don't really affect the way the romance plays out.

The fourth option wasn't there at all, it was just the top three.  I wonder if the tent refusal conversation changed something or if it's a M/M thing.

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...

My Zevran thought for the day. Zevran, when he first meets you will tell you his life is forfeit since he failed in his mission to kill you. Later on, he may tell you after you two go to the tent for the first time that killing you will gain him little. Yet, after you meet Taliesen, it's clear that had he killed you, he could have gone back -- his failing the first time really wouldn't have made a difference as long as you ended up dead.

You also may learn in that after tent conversation that he could have easily killed everyone in the camp with poison.

It puts his betrayal in a different light, if he does betray the party. I think he wanted to die, but then saw his chance to escape the crows, and jumped at it. His telling the warden that killing her would gain him little may have more to do with the fact that he'd have to go back to the crows, rather than his life being forfeit. And if the warden never got to know him, he probably saw no chance at any life anyway.

Or am I reading really weird things into this this morning?

Edit: Taliesen said that they would have to make up a story, but that would be about why Zevran was running around with the warden and it took so long to kill her, not about why the first mission failed.

Oooh, fun ponderings. XD

Hmm... there does seem to be a little bit of contradiction/entanglement when it comes to Zevran talking about what would happen after he failed to kill you...   Hm. The Crows are "known for getting the job done", and presumably, if they knew Zevran failed, they'd send more assassins, if they thought it worthwhile, regardless of whether they knew/thought Zevran dead or not.  Ignacio does say something to the effect of, the Crows (or at least his cell...) now think the Warden has the upper hand over Loghain... but Zevran's (and Taliesen's) cell theoretically still has the responsibility of the contract.  I wonder why they never come after you again if you kill Zevran...

That would imply that Taliesen came to eliminate/retrieve Zevran, NOT to fulfill the contract.  So yes, ejoslin, I agree with your edit, Taliesen's "story" would be about Zev's absence, not his failure (the Crows obviously realize the Warden is someone to reckon with).

As for Zevran himself... maybe (and this is stretching... or is it? ) when he says his life is forfeit... he's speaking of his expendability, rather than being outright executed.  That had just been recently brought home to him, after all.  He does say "if you don't kill me, the Crows will" or something of the like, but... well... the Crows killed Rinna too, now didn't they? 

I was wondering about this a little myself the other day (for some reason I was replaying the Zevran ambush XD).  You know later he wanted to die, then, but he seems quite eager to get the Warden to spare him... (unless you go by the theory that he's trying to provoke the PC into killing him ;D)  So yes, I think maybe he was jumping at the chance to get away from the Crows, yet survive.

... Did any of that make any sense? I need to finish my coffee XD

[jenovan]

sami jo wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Hmmm, right after he declares his feelings, just before he offers the earring again, you should be able to select:

1. I am no wiser than you in this area, Zevran.
2. I do, and I feel the same way.
3. I don't feel the same way, I'm sorry.
4. Maybe it would be better for you if we stopped.

1 and 4 will lead to the second offering of the earring, 2 will lead to that being skipped but still a nice conclusion, and 3 will end up with a breakup.  4 really does give the best dialog -- I'm sorry you didn't have that option because what he says there is SO sweet. 

The tent refusals are different if you haven't been to the tent with him yet, and they are  cute if you haven't, especially if you get him snapping about not wanting to talk about "feelings."  But I think they're minor because they don't really affect the way the romance plays out.

The fourth option wasn't there at all, it was just the top three.  I wonder if the tent refusal conversation changed something or if it's a M/M thing.

Wow, how weird!  My CEM definitely got the 4th option, and it was lovely -- but he'd been to the tent long before this happened.  I suppose it  may make sense if you haven't been that far with him before, though -- what is there to stop, after all? Hmm...

[ejoslin]

sami jo wrote...

The fourth option wasn't there at all, it was just the top three.  I wonder if the tent refusal conversation changed something or if it's a M/M thing.

Hmmmm, I've always gotten it on femwardens, whether they had been to the tent or not.  I'll double check it (I have at least one save right there where the tent happens afterwards).  I think Jenovan commented on it though, even though her warden is male.  Odd you didn't get it, and it's too bad, I'll spoiler his response here.

WARNING *SPOILER*

Warden: Maybe it would be better for you if we stopped
Zevran: Maybe it would, but only if it is impossible that there might be something between us, some possibility of... I do not know what.
Zevran: I still have the earring etc etc etc

Edit: In fact, I'll play with the dialog because it's possible that there's an earlier response that ends up with that not being a possibility of a response, but I don't think so.  Ok. going and loading up a game like that!

Second edit: Even on my tent-free save, it's there, whether at 100 love or 93 love.  Hmmmmm.  *sigh* This game is so buggy for people   I absolutely love that response; it's so sweet when he tries to put into words what he can't even begin to describe.

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 mars 2010 - 05:55 .

[sami jo]

ejoslin wrote...

My Zevran thought for the day. Zevran, when he first meets you will tell you his life is forfeit since he failed in his mission to kill you. Later on, he may tell you after you two go to the tent for the first time that killing you will gain him little. Yet, after you meet Taliesen, it's clear that had he killed you, he could have gone back -- his failing the first time really wouldn't have made a difference as long as you ended up dead.

You also may learn in that after tent conversation that he could have easily killed everyone in the camp with poison.

It puts his betrayal in a different light, if he does betray the party. I think he wanted to die, but then saw his chance to escape the crows, and jumped at it. His telling the warden that killing her would gain him little may have more to do with the fact that he'd have to go back to the crows, rather than his life being forfeit. And if the warden never got to know him, he probably saw no chance at any life anyway.

Or am I reading really weird things into this this morning?

Edit: Taliesen said that they would have to make up a story, but that would be about why Zevran was running around with the warden and it took so long to kill her, not about why the first mission failed.

The conversation if you ask him to leave your party suggests that he expects to be killed if he returns to the Crows.  The whole conversation is pretty gut wrenching.  My cat sat on the controller and selected the option for me and I played through the conversation. 

[sami jo]

ejoslin wrote...

sami jo wrote...

The fourth option wasn't there at all, it was just the top three.  I wonder if the tent refusal conversation changed something or if it's a M/M thing.

Hmmmm, I've always gotten it on femwardens, whether they had been to the tent or not.  I'll double check it (I have at least one save right there where the tent happens afterwards).  I think Jenovan commented on it though, even though her warden is male.  Odd you didn't get it, and it's too bad, I'll spoiler his response here.

WARNING *SPOILER*

Warden: Maybe it would be better for you if we stopped
Zevran: Maybe it would, but only if it is impossible that there might be something between us, some possibility of... I do not know what.
Zevran: I still have the earring etc etc etc

Edit: In fact, I'll play with the dialog because it's possible that there's an earlier response that ends up with that not being a possibility of a response, but I don't think so.  Ok. going and loading up a game like that!

I can replay it this evening and let you know what I said in the earlier conversations.  I'm off to the dog beach with the family now.  I must take advantage of the rare moments when my teenager is willing to be with his parental units.

[Darkannex]

I received all 4 options as well.

[ejoslin]

If you tell him to leave, he would be leaving without killing the warden, which would get him killed. But if he were to kill the warden, he could return. And he could have easily killed her. He chooses not to. It plays into that dialog with Morrigan where he talks about not being able to choose his own master is a fate worse than even a painful death.

[Minaleth]

jenovan wrote...
The Crows are "known for getting the job done", and presumably, if they knew Zevran failed, they'd send more assassins, if they thought it worthwhile, regardless of whether they knew/thought Zevran dead or not.  Ignacio does say something to the effect of, the Crows (or at least his cell...) now think the Warden has the upper hand over Loghain... but Zevran's (and Taliesen's) cell theoretically still has the responsibility of the contract.  I wonder why they never come after you again if you kill Zevran...

I very much expected them to come, alas they didn't
But Ignacio also sort of promise you that there will be no other contract taken on you if you do his little quests.

jenovan wrote...
That would imply that Taliesen came to eliminate/retrieve Zevran, NOT to fulfill the contract.  So yes, ejoslin, 

I believe it was explicitly stated so.

jenovan wrote...
As for Zevran himself... maybe (and this is stretching... or is it? ) when he says his life is forfeit... he's speaking of his expendability, rather than being outright executed.  That had just been recently brought home to him, after all.  He does say "if you don't kill me, the Crows will" or something of the like

He does say that and I believe this is either
1. something not true and he says this to make the warden spare him, it's quite convincing,
2. or something that is true and then it makes Taliesin's offer fishy. But we will never know what would happen if they both kill the Warden then make up story and go back to Antiva...

Modifié par Minaleth, 07 mars 2010 - 05:57 .

[ejoslin]

Minaleth wrote...

He does say that and I believe this is either
1. something not true and he says this to make the warden spare him, it's quite convincing,
2. or something that is true and then it makes Taliesin's offer fishy.

I vote for 1.  He actually sees a chance at freedom, which he wants even more than he wants to die. No one would take their potential assassin if they believe he has a motive to kill them.  He needs to convince the warden that it's to their advantage to take him.

Plus, when he says to the warden (IF he says this, of course), "Killing you would gain me little at this point," kind of implies that it may have gained him something had he killed her earlier, at least to me.  But it also could be just meaning that killing the warden would cost him his freedom -- he'd be right back to the crows, where he was before, and that was a life to him that was not worth living.

[Cuddlezarro]

Oi Charsen here are some male Dwarf/Zevran snogging scenes I promsied last night

not only does it look like your mashing two toys together the dwarf suddenly becomes tallers than Zevran! (though you cant really tell when there mashing there faces together)

easiest way to fix it...replaced it with the incredibly hawt kneel down kiss

[ejoslin]

Ok, CZ, that is bad. And I had that happen with my short haired dwarf which is why I scrapped that play through. Now I am wondering if it's just that the long hair covers the faces enough where you don't see the misplacement.

[Cuddlezarro]

ejoslin wrote...

Ok, CZ, that is bad. And I had that happen with my short haired dwarf which is why I scrapped that play through. Now I am wondering if it's just that the long hair covers the faces enough where you don't see the misplacement.

long hair wont cover it (plus I hate long hair) Massive armor only parially covers it and it pretty much smothers the dwarves head

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
Plus, when he says to the warden (IF he says this, of course), "Killing you would gain me little at this point," kind of implies that it may have gained him something had he killed her earlier, at least to me.

That would make us of course royally stupid to take him along
Therefore I in this case vote for the second option ->

ejoslin wrote...
But it also could be just meaning that killing the warden would cost him his freedom -- he'd be right back to the crows, where he was before, and that was a life to him that was not worth living.

Oh, how I love overanalyzing things <3

Modifié par Minaleth, 07 mars 2010 - 06:14 .

[Charsen]

Oh wow... that is actually really funny, like the dwarf is sniffing his face. So the female dwarf sucks his eye out and the male dwarf does a face sniff. Either way, dwarves are freaks. The end.



I'll definitely check this out when I go through the kisses soon. I saw in the custom bodies mod that Luchaire (maker of the BSC) is working with Custom Bodies... I don't know the extent of that, but I am assuming that means more scenes, so I'm worried that if I do anything now it'll be a waste. Dunno what to do about it yet..

[Cuddlezarro]

Oh wow... that is actually really funny, like the dwarf is sniffing his face. So the female dwarf sucks his eye out and the male dwarf does a face sniff. Either way, dwarves are freaks. The end.

Dwarves arnt freaks your just jealous of their amazing studliness!

[ejoslin]

Minaleth wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Plus, when he says to the warden (IF he says this, of course), "Killing you would gain me little at this point," kind of implies that it may have gained him something had he killed her earlier, at least to me.

That would make us of course royally stupid to take him along
Therefore I in this case vote for the second option ->

ejoslin wrote...
But it also could be just meaning that killing the warden would cost him his freedom -- he'd be right back to the crows, where he was before, and that was a life to him that was not worth living.

Oh, how I love overanalyzing things <3

*grin* I still think it's 1, and Zevran is not being honest. That doesn't mean he wants to kill the warden, obviously; it WAS a suicide attempt.  I think he sees another chance at life.  But there is no way the warden would let him come with her if she realized that killing her was still an option for Zevran -- that the crows wouldn't kill him if he killed her later.

I think this way because if Zevran DOES betray the warden, he does say, "True, you WOULD have to be dead."

Edit: oh yes I did.  I so did.

Second edit: This is so poorly worded.  I HOPE I'm somewhat clear.  I do NOT think that Zevran ever seriously attempted to kill the warden.  I don't think he wanted to at all -- it was clearly a suicide attempt.  I think he saw a chance at a new life when she spared him.  I think he realized that he had to convince her that the crows would kill him, that his life was already forfeit, though it really wasn't.  He all but admits it after they go to the tent if she asks him about it.  Then at Taliesen, it's very clear that Zevran can return to the crows as long as the Warden is dead.

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 mars 2010 - 06:27 .

[Charsen]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Oh wow... that is actually really funny, like the dwarf is sniffing his face. So the female dwarf sucks his eye out and the male dwarf does a face sniff. Either way, dwarves are freaks. The end.

Dwarves arnt freaks your just jealous of their amazing studliness!

just like i'm jealous of a coffee table! it's sturdy too! 

[Cuddlezarro]

Charsen wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Oh wow... that is actually really funny, like the dwarf is sniffing his face. So the female dwarf sucks his eye out and the male dwarf does a face sniff. Either way, dwarves are freaks. The end.

Dwarves arnt freaks your just jealous of their amazing studliness!

just like i'm jealous of a coffee table! it's sturdy too! 

Denial

edit: also i have no doubt your as sturdy as a coffee table either bow chika bow wow

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 07 mars 2010 - 06:45 .

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Charsen wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Oh wow... that is actually really funny, like the dwarf is sniffing his face. So the female dwarf sucks his eye out and the male dwarf does a face sniff. Either way, dwarves are freaks. The end.

Dwarves arnt freaks your just jealous of their amazing studliness!

just like i'm jealous of a coffee table! it's sturdy too! 

Denial

I'll post screenies of a decent dwarf kiss.  It's incredibly hot when done right.

Edit: I can't do it right now because my kids are around and get really weird when they see the kisses on my monitor!

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 mars 2010 - 06:37 .

[Cuddlezarro]

ejoslin wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Charsen wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Oh wow... that is actually really funny, like the dwarf is sniffing his face. So the female dwarf sucks his eye out and the male dwarf does a face sniff. Either way, dwarves are freaks. The end.

Dwarves arnt freaks your just jealous of their amazing studliness!

just like i'm jealous of a coffee table! it's sturdy too! 

Denial

I'll post screenies of a decent dwarf kiss.  It's incredibly hot when done right.

Edit: I can't do it right now because my kids are around and get really weird when they see the kisses on my monitor!

take more screenies of the kneel down kiss!

[Charsen]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Charsen wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Oh wow... that is actually really funny, like the dwarf is sniffing his face. So the female dwarf sucks his eye out and the male dwarf does a face sniff. Either way, dwarves are freaks. The end.

Dwarves arnt freaks your just jealous of their amazing studliness!

just like i'm jealous of a coffee table! it's sturdy too!

Denial

Truth hurts

...shorty

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
Second edit: This is so poorly worded.  I HOPE I'm somewhat clear.  I do NOT think that Zevran ever seriously attempted to kill the warden.  I don't think he wanted to at all -- it was clearly a suicide attempt.  I think he saw a chance at a new life when she spared him.  I think he realized that he had to convince her that the crows would kill him, that his life was already forfeit, though it really wasn't.  He all but admits it after they go to the tent if she asks him about it.  Then at Taliesen, it's very clear that Zevran can return to the crows as long as the Warden is dead.

This is the clearest interpretation and I can merely agree.
The motives actually do not contradict. Nice story arc. *bows to the authors*

[Cuddlezarro]

Charsen wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Charsen wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...
Oh wow... that is actually really funny, like the dwarf is sniffing his face. So the female dwarf sucks his eye out and the male dwarf does a face sniff. Either way, dwarves are freaks. The end.
Dwarves arnt freaks your just jealous of their amazing studliness!

just like i'm jealous of a coffee table! it's sturdy too!

Denial

Truth hurts
...shorty

bishi lover

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

take more screenies of the kneel down kiss!

Ok, after doing the kiss with my first Natia, even though her hair blocks the face, she is DEFINITELY lower than the pictures you show.  My first Sereda, it's hard to tell.  Here is Natia, even though her hair blocks the face a lot, you can see the difference.  Even though she's a warrior, I put her in leather just to show where the placement SHOULD be.



I'll put more kneeling kisses up as soon as I get them! They're darker of course because they have to be at camp.

Edit: Second Zev/Natia picture with proper face placement

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 mars 2010 - 06:53 .