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[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Second edit: This is so poorly worded.  I HOPE I'm somewhat clear.  I do NOT think that Zevran ever seriously attempted to kill the warden.  I don't think he wanted to at all -- it was clearly a suicide attempt.  I think he saw a chance at a new life when she spared him.  I think he realized that he had to convince her that the crows would kill him, that his life was already forfeit, though it really wasn't.  He all but admits it after they go to the tent if she asks him about it.  Then at Taliesen, it's very clear that Zevran can return to the crows as long as the Warden is dead.

I think that makes wonderful sense, I like that. X3  Although I do really wonder if Zevran would be allowed back to the Crows so simply.  Taliesen may honestly think so... but, heh, he also thought lying about Rinna would work.    I imagine Zevran would be punished in some fashion, but would the Crows still think he was useful enough to keep around? Hmm...

For that matter, what would Zevran be like at that point?  Unlike if the warden chooses to do the US, Zevran never got that close to him/her to have that "loved and lost" thing going on...  Perhaps he'd try another suicide mission... (Although I seem to remember a while ago here that someone mentioned Zevran didn't fight, even when he turned on the Warden.  That's just depressing... but fitting )

I was wondering if he had fought or not -- you really can't tell from the videos at all.

I do think Zevran would have been allowed back had he killed the warden.  I don't see why he wouldn't be.  It just took him a bit longer to get close to her, after all.  The only thing that may be a problem is that he lost his entire team, but would the crows care about a bunch of mercenaries?

I think it's moot, though.  He wasn't going back to the Crows, whether it was through death or through, to his surprise, being given a chance at a different life.  He could easily have killed the warden at just about any time.  When people go complaining about how Zevran betrayed the warden, he certainly did it at a very inopportune time.  When Zevran points out to the Warden, "Did you know that there are poisons I can ingest that are perfectly harmless to me but could be killing you as we speak" it seems to me that the betrayal is not something of opportunity nor about him wanting to go back to the Crows.  

But . . . He and Taliesen were close, and Zevran cared for him deeply.  It's also hard to believe that he'd want Taliesen dead since you can see at one point (IF Zevran leaves the encounter) how heartbroken he is over Taliesen's death.  But he must have known that they would die if he betrays the Warden.  The first attempt, Taliesen offered to help and Zevran told him no.  The betrayal, Zevran says that Taliesen being the one to come after him makes it simpler.

Ok, I'm rambling and not making sense right now.  

[ejoslin]

Gah, all these fabulous songs.

Edit: I think this wins the award for my most useless post, and I have PLENTY.  I have a few more Alistair final kiss ones with Zevran watching on.  



I don't like this one as much because you can't see their faces, but it is the kiss goodbye.



Zev doesn't look like he minds one bit, though.

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 mars 2010 - 08:58 .

[Charsen]

You know, the ambush encounter was pretty bad, really. Two hardened veterans of Ostagar travelling with two other significant threats... and the best they could do was a falling log and some dead cows surrounded by some archers? It just seemed sloppy for someone who was such a professional, and leads me to think the plan was to be captured, to be seduced, but the joke was on him.

BTW: Song for Zevran + Taliesin... heh

Modifié par Charsen, 07 mars 2010 - 08:55 .

[ejoslin]

Charsen wrote...

You know, the ambush encounter was pretty bad, really. Two hardened veterans of Ostagar travelling with two other significant threats... and the best they could do was a falling log and some dead cows surrounded by some archers? It just seemed sloppy for someone who was such a professional, and leads me to think the plan was to be captured, to be seduced, but the joke was on him.

BTW: Song for Zevran + Taliesin... heh

No, he planned to die.  He was attempting suicide via grey warden.

Edit: He tells you this when he tells you about his final mission.  (NOT off a screenie so I may be slightly off on the wording)

SPOILER SPOILER

Zevran: What I wanted was to die, and what better way than to throw myself at one of the fabled grey wardens.

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 mars 2010 - 09:02 .

[Darkannex]

Yes, my last playthrough was going to be a werewolf one, but I had Zev in my party. There went that idea.

[Charsen]

ejoslin wrote...
No, he planned to die.  He was attempting suicide via grey warden.

Edit: He tells you this when he tells you about his final mission.  

SPOILER SPOILER

Zevran: What I wanted was to die, and what better way than to throw myself at one of the fabled grey wardens.

Well, I know, and it does make sense, but... he sort of pleads for his life when you encounter him, though. Why wouldn't he just say something right away that would get him killed?

[jenovan]

Charsen wrote...

BTW: Song for Zevran + Taliesin... heh

Wow, that actually works surprisingly well. Hot.

[Darkannex]

I think Ejo made the point that once he was revived he saw beyond merely being killed. He saw the chance to get away from the crows, which meant more to him than dying.

[Cuddlezarro]

heres a pic during the zathrian fight... i would have posted more but that fight lags my pc to hell ad before I know it the fight was over :3

[ejoslin]

Charsen wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
No, he planned to die.  He was attempting suicide via grey warden.

Edit: He tells you this when he tells you about his final mission.  

SPOILER SPOILER

Zevran: What I wanted was to die, and what better way than to throw myself at one of the fabled grey wardens.

Well, I know, and it does make sense, but... he sort of pleads for his life when you encounter him, though. Why wouldn't he just say something right away that would get him killed?

He does, kind of, actually.  With the FemWarden he is beyond obnoxious. 

Zevran: I think you're royally hard to kill and utterly gorgeous.  There are worse things that serving the whims of a deadly sex goddess.

But I also think he saw the chance at a new life. Thinking about it, he says that when the Warden asks why he wanted to leave the crows.  The fact that the Warden didn't kill him, which he was fully expecting, meant that something else was in store for him.  I think other people are more articulate on this point than I can be.

[Charsen]

Darkannex wrote...

I think Ejo made the point that once he was revived he saw beyond merely being killed. He saw the chance to get away from the crows, which meant more to him than dying.

Yeah, that makes sense too. He's quite conflicted for a while, that's certain.

jenovan wrote...

Charsen wrote...

BTW: Song for Zevran + Taliesin... heh

Wow, that actually works surprisingly well. Hot. 

"As long as it’s free, I want your love"
"I want your loving and I want your revenge"
"'Cause you're a criminal as long as you're mine"
"I want your love, I don't wanna be friends!"

Works nicely <3

[Addai]

jenovan wrote...

Ooh, I have a song too   This one's not exactly Zevran-specific -- it's kind of more "final fight vs. the Archdemon", but it reminded me of Zevran's saying the Grey Warden's sidekick dies instead... oooor, it also kind of brings to mind that screenshot/scenario ejoslin has of ex-lover Alistair doing the US and leaving femWarden and Zevran together.
Coheed and Cambria - Cuts Marked in the March of Men
C&C may be kind of an acquired taste, but, well. XD  (Their albums/lyrics make up a massive sci-fi saga, which shows up a little in this song, but not much compared to some of their others. XD)

Aww, I was bored with the game this morning and reluctant to take my mage through to the final battle, especially since I am probably not importing her to Awakenings (it's just too ooc to have a lover of Zevran's parted from him so soon after Origins) but you've inspired me. 

"in your last hour stand

you'll notice the one that you had loved in dreams is here among the others

it's you I want but if I can't have her

then why should I spend any more time in a world that's going to end pretty soon?

I need you now more than I ever did

I'll hand myself over for you...
scattered amongst the killing streets the children slate defense

is god's work to have us fail?

rivered blood streams out the dead as bodies foul the air

I'll make peace when this is done

in arms...we storm

slowly the streets begin to fill with new flesh bound to bone

armed and ready it begins again...



tonight we storm

tonight...



deliver a favor to my love..."

[ejoslin]

Sabriana totally changed the meaning of the song "Something I can never have" by NiN for me. I had suggested it as a song that suits him as a breakup song, and she made me look at it as a love song for him. I still can't believe what was once the most depressing song in the world for me because a song of love and hope when applied to Zevran.



I am laughing at myself over it, actually.

[Charsen]

ejoslin wrote...
He does, kind of, actually.  With the FemWarden he is beyond obnoxious. 

Zevran: I think you're royally hard to kill and utterly gorgeous.  There are worse things that serving the whims of a deadly sex goddess.

But I also think he saw the chance at a new life. Thinking about it, he says that when the Warden asks why he wanted to leave the crows.  The fact that the Warden didn't kill him, which he was fully expecting, meant that something else was in store for him.  I think other people are more articulate on this point than I can be.

I am sad that he never refers to the male warden as a sex god. 

His encounter dialog with the male is fairly neutral, imo. When I first encountered him, not realizing he was a potential LI, I thought, oh sure, another stray. Whatev, a rogue might be more useful than that crazy bard, let's go. 

You guys have much more insight on this, I've only played the once, and my second character only just met Zev yesterday, so i am quite a novice at zev lore! (which is why i tend to avoid the philosophical bits and stick to songs... sigh)

[Cuddlezarro]

Charsen have you ever used the "do you think im royally stupid" line when recruiting him? he flings out a comment how he thinks your royally tough to kill and that he hopes you are stupid (then quickly backtracks)

[ejoslin]

Charsen wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
He does, kind of, actually.  With the FemWarden he is beyond obnoxious. 

Zevran: I think you're royally hard to kill and utterly gorgeous.  There are worse things that serving the whims of a deadly sex goddess.

But I also think he saw the chance at a new life. Thinking about it, he says that when the Warden asks why he wanted to leave the crows.  The fact that the Warden didn't kill him, which he was fully expecting, meant that something else was in store for him.  I think other people are more articulate on this point than I can be.

I am sad that he never refers to the male warden as a sex god. 

His encounter dialog with the male is fairly neutral, imo. When I first encountered him, not realizing he was a potential LI, I thought, oh sure, another stray. Whatev, a rogue might be more useful than that crazy bard, let's go. 

You guys have much more insight on this, I've only played the once, and my second character only just met Zev yesterday, so i am quite a novice at zev lore! (which is why i tend to avoid the philosophical bits and stick to songs... sigh)

You know, everyone interprets him their own way.  There is enough ambiguity there.  He's a fabulous and complex character for sure.  There are some things that I think are pretty certain, like his attempt on the grey warden being a suicide attempt, but many people will never see that dialog, and other people who see it a different way. 

Doesn't Zevran say, "I think you're royally hard to kill and I only hope you're stupid," to a male warden?  That's pretty obnoxious too, when you're tied up and at someone's mercy.

[Cuddlezarro]

Doesn't Zevran say, "I think you're royally hard to kill and I only hope you're stupid," to a male warden? That's pretty obnoxious too, when you're tied up and at someone's mercy.

*points to my above post*

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Doesn't Zevran say, "I think you're royally hard to kill and I only hope you're stupid," to a male warden? That's pretty obnoxious too, when you're tied up and at someone's mercy.

*points to my above post*

You are ninja  It happens!

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 mars 2010 - 09:22 .

[Cuddlezarro]

ejoslin wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Doesn't Zevran say, "I think you're royally hard to kill and I only hope you're stupid," to a male warden? That's pretty obnoxious too, when you're tied up and at someone's mercy.

*points to my above post*

You are ninja 

a devilishly evil ninja

[Charsen]

Hah, yeah, I think he said that to my mage, who thought it was amusing but not kill-worthy.

You know, I am constantly surprised at how many people say they kill Zev upon meeting him. i guess i didn't interpret it as obnoxious (see also: previous oblivious post)

[Cuddlezarro]

Charsen wrote...

Hah, yeah, I think he said that to my mage, who thought it was amusing but not kill-worthy.
You know, I am constantly surprised at how many people say they kill Zev upon meeting him. i guess i didn't interpret it as obnoxious (see also: previous oblivious post)

well he is the gay "evil" elf with no morals

the gay part alone tends to be enough justification for many people sadly to just off him (not saying this is always to case but maybe its because my view is pickled by the amount of homophobia in my area)

[Creature 1]

Charsen wrote...
BTW: Song for Zevran + Taliesin... heh

Yeah, that's what I loop when I feel like writing Zevran's back story, which isn't very often since it's Grim.  

[jenovan]

Charsen wrote...

"As long as it’s free, I want your love"
"I want your loving and I want your revenge"
"'Cause you're a criminal as long as you're mine"
"I want your love, I don't wanna be friends!"

Works nicely <3

Don't forget the
"I want your studded leather kiss in the scene"

Addai67 wrote...

Aww, I was bored with the game this
morning and reluctant to take my mage through to the final battle,
especially since I am probably not importing her to Awakenings (it's
just too ooc to have a lover of Zevran's parted from him so soon after
Origins) but you've inspired me.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Awww, yay for inspiration!  :3   C&C have several "take up arms" songs, but that one may be the most romantic. :3

ejoslin wrote...

Sabriana totally changed the meaning of
the song "Something I can never have" by NiN for me. I had suggested it
as a song that suits him as a breakup song, and she made me look at it
as a love song for him. I still can't believe what was once the most
depressing song in the world for me because a song of love and hope
when applied to Zevran.

I am laughing at myself over it, actually.

I LOVE how finding a connection for a song -- applying it to a character, or person, or what-have-you -- can totally change its meaning for you permanently. X3  I do this constantly, and any song I really truly love, I have some mental scenario for. 

...wow this whole post is about music. XD  Have some more Coheed and Cambria.  This is TOTALLY US-ish. I'll be honest -- I was thinking about it in terms of Zevran and the Warden once for a fic prompt and I almost kinda cried. 
Wake Up
(man, finding vids with lyrics on-screen and in the info is hard. XD)

[ejoslin]

Charsen wrote...

Hah, yeah, I think he said that to my mage, who thought it was amusing but not kill-worthy.
You know, I am constantly surprised at how many people say they kill Zev upon meeting him. i guess i didn't interpret it as obnoxious (see also: previous oblivious post)

Oh, I'm convinced a lot of people kill him because he's an openly bisexual male.  And an elf?  And I'm waiting for the posts in response to this, "No, I killed him because he tried to kill ME."  Of course, that's valid, I suppose. But usually people who come on here saying that go on about how sleazy he is and how fun it was so whatever.

Edit: I can't be the only woman who found his bisexuality incredibly appealing, I hope.  It's one of the sexiest things about him, I think.

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 mars 2010 - 09:35 .

[Creature 1]

jenovan wrote...

Charsen wrote...

"As long as it’s free, I want your love"
"I want your loving and I want your revenge"
"'Cause you're a criminal as long as you're mine"
"I want your love, I don't wanna be friends!"

Works nicely <3

Don't forget the
"I want your studded leather kiss in the scene"

Kiss in the sand, actually. 

Some of the lyrics on the web are horribly wrong.  Part in the middle that's often quoted wrong: 

"I want your psycho, your vertigo stick.
Want you in my rear window, oh baby it's sick."

Which are odd references to Alfred hitchcock movies.