35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabriana]

Oh, I knew it was there, but I didn't dare pick it. It's well hidden and makes a person hesitant to pick it. Especially because of the varied ways that Zevran's romance can be turned off completely, never to be turned on again. Way to go Bioware. I hate you all!

Lol, it figures that Zevran is the most consequent of all romances, be it love or break up, it fits the character perfectly.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Oh, I knew it was there, but I didn't dare pick it. It's well hidden and makes a person hesitant to pick it. Especially because of the varied ways that Zevran's romance can be turned off completely, never to be turned on again. Way to go Bioware. I hate you all!
Lol, it figures that Zevran is the most consequent of all romances, be it love or break up, it fits the character perfectly.

I don't think it's easy to turn the Zevran romance off.  The only way I have seen is to either break it off with him, or after he falls in love, tell him you don't return his feelings (which is completely heartbreaking, ugh).  His can also be turned back on as I've had him end up staring again after breaking it off with him (playing with dialog).  I'm not sure why sometimes you can restart it and other times you can't.  

[Sabriana]

Yes, later on it is, and in hindsight, you are right. But I think my HN did inadvertently break it off with him through a dialogue choice that isn't all that clear. It becomes clear and understandable if thought through further, but it's not really obvious. I'm referring to the 'wouldn't have anyone to kiss' statement, that at first looked like it was meant to be a positive response. As in that my PC wouldn't have anyone to kiss because he's the one and only.

Lucky you. I've been careful since then, because my HN turned it off completely early on when she responded to his 'would you be offended if I said I fancy you' line. She was not yet convinced that he wouldn't try again to kill her, you see, and wanted to keep a safe distance at first and see what he has in mind. It never turned on again, and I had to reload to a waayyy earlier save. Yes, I'm that pathetic, lol.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Yes, later on it is, and in hindsight, you are right. But I think my HN did inadvertently break it off with him through a dialogue choice that isn't all that clear. It becomes clear and understandable if thought through further, but it's not really obvious. I'm referring to the 'wouldn't have anyone to kiss' statement, that at first looked like it was meant to be a positive response. As in that my PC wouldn't have anyone to kiss because he's the one and only.
Lucky you. I've been careful since then, because my HN turned it off completely early on when she responded to his 'would you be offended if I said I fancy you' line. She was not yet convinced that he wouldn't try again to kill her, you see, and wanted to keep a safe distance at first and see what he has in mind. It never turned on again, and I had to reload to a waayyy earlier save. Yes, I'm that pathetic, lol.

Oh ick.  You know, I do think that dialog should be in the "more than friends" selection as well. Most people who are romancing him will select that, because, well, it's true.  I think the writers may have been trying to get the point across that friendship with Zevran is what should be treasured most.  It took me a bit to find it again, though my first play through I got it so I knew it was there, and was disappointed in my next couple of play throughs that it didn't come up (my first play through I was friends with Zevran until after Ali dumped my PC, so I'm sure that's why I saw it).  I had to actively search for it to find it again, and was surprised with where it was.

Zevran's reaction to being told "I consider you more than a friend," is sweet, but in a way, flat, and I'm sure that's deliberate.  But it's such a contrast with the "I consider you a friend as well," which again is one of the most defining dialogs of Zevran.  What I find most surprising, though, is that Zevran knows the cost.  He's known from the start how it's supposed to end.  Which makes his falling in love (or becoming dear friends) even that much more poignant. 

[Sabriana]

So it is in the conversation post Taliesen, right. Just want to make sure, because I'm on my 3rd playthrough and not even near the Landsmeet call. I've still a lot to do, so I'm hoping I'm right in thinking that the dialogue *is* the one after he refuses to sleep with the PC and tells her to just accept it.

By the way, I hope I'm not bugging you too much

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

So it is in the conversation post Taliesen, right. Just want to make sure, because I'm on my 3rd playthrough and not even near the Landsmeet call. I've still a lot to do, so I'm hoping I'm right in thinking that the dialogue *is* the one after he refuses to sleep with the PC and tells her to just accept it.
By the way, I hope I'm not bugging you too much

It is after Taliesin, but before he starts refusing to go to the tent.  There are two dialogs immediately after Taliesin.  If you're romancing him, you get the offer of the earring.  Then there's another one after that where he thanks you for freeing him from the Crows.  It's that conversation.  Tell him you consider him a friend both times in that conversation.  And all four of your possible responses at the end after he says what he does give very interesting information as well, but I normally select telling him he doesn't have to die either.  

Edit: And you're most certainly not bugging me!  I'm a bit worried I'm either being a bit too know-it-all or giving away too much information!  I love talking about it though, and my husband rolls his eyes when I try to talk to him about it!

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 janvier 2010 - 02:05 .

[Sabriana]

*Bows to Ejoslin*



Thank you, oh wonderful guide through a very deep, sometimes complicated, and utterly satisfying romance.

[ejoslin]

Hmmmm, at the gates again, and playing around with dialog . . . Since I had only seen it once before (and promptly reloaded), I selected to leave Zevran at the gates. I misremembered his "dark city speech -- it really is much more powerful than I remembered when I tried leaving him the first time. "In truth, for the chance to be by your side, I would storm the gates of the dark city itself. Never doubt it." Said so tenderly. Wow. I now remember why I did my very first reload at that moment in my first play through (I had sworn up until that point to stand by all decisions). Since I had chosen, this time, to leave everyone at the gates, I was curious about reactions. Zev is by far the most upset about being left -- absolutely heartbroken. Telling him you love him or telling him goodbye gets such a sad response, but the other two responses are also so good.

Edit:  Oooooh, the place to NOT call Zevran your friend is at the gates.  Hahahaha, that is most unsatisfying!

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 janvier 2010 - 03:02 .

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

*Bows to Ejoslin*

Thank you, oh wonderful guide through a very deep, sometimes complicated, and utterly satisfying romance.

Gah, you have fantastic insights into the whole romance.  I like hearing people's reactions and interpretations.  Sometimes I'm probably WAY off or reading too much into things.  And seeing how others fill in the blanks makes it so much richer.

So *bows* to you!  

[mousestalker]

I've just finished massacring the slavers in the Alienage. I'm at 100 with Alistair, mid 70's (friendzoned) with Zevran. Given how clueless Alistair was about meeting my character's father in the Alienage (City Elf Origin), I'm thinking it's time to push him off the Grey Warden bus. Is it too late to start a romance with Zevran? If so, how?



I rebuffed his advances early on, is that a problem?

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

It could just be that your game is bugged as well.  I would reload.  Telling him you consider him a friend gives you a codex update AND one of the most touching dialogs in the game.

Aha, that was it, about the "if you leave it will be hard to kiss you" line.  Tricky!  Because it seemed like playful affeciton to me (and was such a cute scene!), but then again I guess at that vulnerable time he wants a serious answer.  When you say "telling him he is a friend," do you mean in that dialogue or later in camp when you have the option to tell him you consider him more than a friend?

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

It could just be that your game is bugged as well.  I would reload.  Telling him you consider him a friend gives you a codex update AND one of the most touching dialogs in the game.

Aha, that was it, about the "if you leave it will be hard to kiss you" line.  Tricky!  Because it seemed like playful affeciton to me (and was such a cute scene!), but then again I guess at that vulnerable time he wants a serious answer.  When you say "telling him he is a friend," do you mean in that dialogue or later in camp when you have the option to tell him you consider him more than a friend?

I mean later on, sorry, was unclear.  In that dialog, I always tell him I would be put out if he left, and he gets SO happy looking. I don't think I could give another response.  Telling him you consider him a friend as well is for the conversation when he's thanking you for freeing him from the crows.

[ejoslin]

mousestalker wrote...

I've just finished massacring the slavers in the Alienage. I'm at 100 with Alistair, mid 70's (friendzoned) with Zevran. Given how clueless Alistair was about meeting my character's father in the Alienage (City Elf Origin), I'm thinking it's time to push him off the Grey Warden bus. Is it too late to start a romance with Zevran? If so, how?

I rebuffed his advances early on, is that a problem?

Ok, click on Zevran.  if you have a selection telling him, "Do you stare at everyone like that?" you can start the romance.  If not, you're probably sunk.  Too bad.  A romanced Zevran at the alienage is MUCH better than a romanced Alistair.  Ali, as you know now, is indignant when learning about your wedding.  Zevran . . . sad beyond belief.

Edit: Even if you can't pursue the romance, getting him up to 100 friendly (maybe lower, I'm not sure) also opens the dialog where he thanks you for freeing him from the crows.  It really is well worth seeing just to understand exactly how loyal he is to your PC.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 janvier 2010 - 03:52 .

[Sabriana]

@ Addai
It comes up after the earring conversation, and before the "I don't want to go to your tent". Yes, it is the one where you also have the option to tell him he's more than a friend.

@ Mousestalker
Zevran turned off usually stays that way. Ejoslin says she managed to turn it back on, so we'll have to wait for her input on that. I hope she can help you, Zevran has to be experienced at least once and in depth.

Alistair? Clueless? Surely you jest

Note to all Alistair fans:
Don't take this little jibe too hard. I just can't use him as a romance anymore. After what he did to my poor mage, who bent over backward for him (no pun intended. Really.) I couldn't even have him in my party in the following play-through. It's getting better though. Now he can come along once in a while, and my PCs are even on a friendly footing with him.
However, even my HN had a hard time forgiving him when he had the audacity to ask her if she had someone close to her die. He knew almost her whole family was butchered just a short while ago, but he forgot? Hello? Anybody home?

Ninja'd by Ejoslin. Darn!

Modifié par Sabriana, 13 janvier 2010 - 03:52 .

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

I mean later on, sorry, was unclear.  In that dialog, I always tell him I would be put out if he left, and he gets SO happy looking. I don't think I could give another response.  Telling him you consider him a friend as well is for the conversation when he's thanking you for freeing him from the crows.

Got it.  I have been making saves like crazy, so I plan to go back and re-do this whole bit anyway.  I've been interfering too much as a player, trying to get the squees , when in reality I think my city elf is pretty raw at this time, too.  She's back in Denerim and the alienage is still closed off, after hearing that the first thing that rat bastard Howe did was lead a purge there.  At least she's pretty much over Nelaros- having a real relationship versus a built-up ideal will do that.  Not that I'm still not going to work things with Zevran, this is just too interesting!

Geez, with Alistair you at least know exactly where you stand by the end of the game, even if it makes you want to throw a rock through your monitor.  With Zevran, you might never know what you didn't know.  Hurrah for spoilers!

[ReubenLiew]

Clearly the sight of real boobs was causing major amnesia to Alistair's poor brain. Do not blame the lad, it is a common and dreadful sindrome.

[Sabriana]

Addai67 wrote...

Geez, with Alistair you at least know exactly where you stand by the end of the game, even if it makes you want to throw a rock through your monitor.  With Zevran, you might never know what you didn't know.  Hurrah for spoilers!

Now that's profound. And true even

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

I mean later on, sorry, was unclear.  In that dialog, I always tell him I would be put out if he left, and he gets SO happy looking. I don't think I could give another response.  Telling him you consider him a friend as well is for the conversation when he's thanking you for freeing him from the crows.

Got it.  I have been making saves like crazy, so I plan to go back and re-do this whole bit anyway.  I've been interfering too much as a player, trying to get the squees , when in reality I think my city elf is pretty raw at this time, too.  She's back in Denerim and the alienage is still closed off, after hearing that the first thing that rat bastard Howe did was lead a purge there.  At least she's pretty much over Nelaros- having a real relationship versus a built-up ideal will do that.  Not that I'm still not going to work things with Zevran, this is just too interesting!

Geez, with Alistair you at least know exactly where you stand by the end of the game, even if it makes you want to throw a rock through your monitor.  With Zevran, you might never know what you didn't know.  Hurrah for spoilers!

Well, to be fair, to get THE final dialog with Zevran, you have to be in the habit of asking him to your tent.  And if you don't (or can't) mod, then all you're getting is a kiss so I can see how that would would be missed.  As I can see why someone would pick "I consider us more than friends" over "I consider you a good friend as well."  

I was talking to a guy about the turning off romance with Zevran in another thread, and I think he had a point when he said if you turn it off at the beginning, it's OFF as a nod to straight, homophobic male players.  I also have never been able to turn a romance back on if I dumped the companion for someone else.  However, when seeing some of the meaner dialog options towards the end with Zevran, at least one of the times the PC broke it off with him, he was staring at her, so it could be started again.  I think, though, if he breaks it off with her, it's done forever.

My own opinion is it's bugged.  All romances are supposed to be able to be started twice.  But it doesn't always work that way.

[Sabriana]

Well, Ejoslin, my game makes up for that by me turning the Leliana romance on several times. Once at the beginning, then after I break up with her, then once again after breaking up with her. Strangest thing is, my PC isn't even intentionally starting anything with Leliana.

I know that some people don't like her, and I can understand why. But I find her adorable, she reminds me of a friend in real life.

(No, my friend is not an assassin-bard, but just as shy and a bit needy. But a sweet woman nevertheless)

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Well, to be fair, to get THE final dialog with Zevran, you have to be in the habit of asking him to your tent.  And if you don't (or can't) mod, then all you're getting is a kiss so I can see how that would would be missed.  As I can see why someone would pick "I consider us more than friends" over "I consider you a good friend as well."  

Right, because he refuses you, yes?  I got that.  I was surprised at his anger if you press him to talk about it.  Looking back, that would probably be another thing I would change since I think my character would completely understand not wanting to talk.  It's interesting, my very first character was a city elf and romanced Alistair, and at the time I didn't like the fact that the game "forced" your character to have been secretive about how you ended up where you did.  But playing it again, I see that it's a rich little bit inserted into your origin story, and most especially if you've romanced Zevran.

[ejoslin]

A tangental thought . . . The fact that you always will gain +1 approval for asking Zevran to your tent -- you can get to 100 doing nothing BUT asking him to your tent once that comes up and also that you don't get his declaration (and possible proposal) unless you're asking him to your tent shows how important the physical part of your relationship is to him. Which, if you contrast it with how sex was very much not an emotional thing for him for anyone else, just business, as he told Isabela. I actually never considered that before.

Edit: @Addai67 and yes, because he starts refusing you.  You do finally have to force him to confront his feelings.  When he says he's been confused, I'm not sure if he means from the beginning or from that point where he starts refusing.  But what I really like is he IS able to sort all that out.  Without the PC having to mother him.

Second edit: I do also like a romanced Zevran in the alienage -- it's obviously there for drama reasons, but it's effective.  I guess with a male PC Zevran's reaction is different -- more like Alistair's, but with the female PC, didn't your heart just break?  Ugh.  Especially if you end up telling him, "He died."  

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 janvier 2010 - 04:20 .

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...

A tangental thought . . . The fact that you always will gain +1 approval for asking Zevran to your tent -- you can get to 100 doing nothing BUT asking him to your tent once that comes up and also that you don't get his declaration (and possible proposal) unless you're asking him to your tent shows how important the physical part of your relationship is to him. Which, if you contrast it with how sex was very much not an emotional thing for him for anyone else, just business, as he told Isabela. I actually never considered that before.

Aww, that's an interesting point    I could imagine that sex as "an emotional thing" might be a revelation for him... a new way of looking at it, as it were. 
Not to mention, it might be incredibly fun and meaningful for him to actually put all of his skills to use to make someone he cares about deliriously happy...

[Sabriana]

Zevran never thought more than sex being a simple pleasure. He even says something akin to that in the very beginning, when the PC asks him about his history with women.

Suddenly it morphs into a whole other dimension, and he becomes confused. It wasn't supposed to be like that. It was never supposed to mean more than pleasure, but suddenly it takes on a life of its own. It goes against everything he was taught, brainwashed into, and believed. No wonder the poor elf got utterly confused.

Imagine if what you believed in your whole life, what was preached to you over and over again, suddenly seems to be proven untrue. By your own experience and feelings. Poor man. Poor Zevran.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Zevran never thought more than sex being a simple pleasure. He even says something akin to that in the very beginning, when the PC asks him about his history with women.
Suddenly it morphs into a whole other dimension, and he becomes confused. It wasn't supposed to be like that. It was never supposed to mean more than pleasure, but suddenly it takes on a life of its own. It goes against everything he was taught, brainwashed into, and believed. No wonder the poor elf got utterly confused.
Imagine if what you believed in your whole life, what was preached to you over and over again, suddenly seems to be proven untrue. By your own experience and feelings. Poor man. Poor Zevran.

So true.  I think the truly amazing thing about Zevran is that he isn't broken.  You can even get him to admit that being cold is just not something that comes to him naturally.  Ok, just *sigh* again.  SO much to the character.

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

A tangental thought . . . The fact that you always will gain +1 approval for asking Zevran to your tent -- you can get to 100 doing nothing BUT asking him to your tent once that comes up and also that you don't get his declaration (and possible proposal) unless you're asking him to your tent shows how important the physical part of your relationship is to him. Which, if you contrast it with how sex was very much not an emotional thing for him for anyone else, just business, as he told Isabela. I actually never considered that before.

Aww, that's an interesting point    I could imagine that sex as "an emotional thing" might be a revelation for him... a new way of looking at it, as it were. 
Not to mention, it might be incredibly fun and meaningful for him to actually put all of his skills to use to make someone he cares about deliriously happy...

Heh, I just thought it was interesting that it always gains approval.  I think with Ali you get approval once for this, after that, meh.  It's also why I think Zevran's flirting is completely not serious, and he would not take the companions up on it if they accepted (as shown by Leliana, actually).  Though he approves when the PC has sex with other people . . .  I don't know, that does seem inconsistent with it being special right from the very beginning.  I think it is more like Sabarina says, it makes the most sense.

Edit: bad formatting

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 janvier 2010 - 04:58 .