35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramante]

Sabriana wrote...

See, I think he got drawn into the Warden sooner than that. His "Is there no one I should stay for?" gives me that impression. I don't think that's something he ever contemplated. He wants to stay with her/him, and this is not the only time he asks for her/him to commit - in the Zevran way.

That really shows how messed up he is thanks to the Crows. The fact that you saved him and let him travel with you gave him a sense of being wanted. But he checks a few times if he is still wanted (I wish Wynne did that). He needs to know that he is wanted and not that he is replaceable as with the Crows.

That's it, Im going to sleep before I say more things that don't make sense.
Goodnight, -morning, -afternoon everyone. I expect at least 10 pages when I get back tomorrow.

[ejoslin]

Hmmm, another thought about the party banters. With Alistair, though he'll ask Leliana and Wynne how to let a woman know he's interested in her, no one brings up their relationship until after they're going to the tent or after he falls in love. With Zevran, the companions start talking about it quite early. Even Alistair will ask Leliana what a woman would see in him at 51+ care. Not sure if you really can read anything into that, though.

Edit: Sabriana, I love how he asks, straight off, before it can become a physical relationship, if they do have a future.  And whether it's as friends, FWB, or "more than friends."  I also like how in that conversation he says "We may grow fond of each other," and then at the post-coronation he says, "I have grown fond of you." It's like it went full circle there.

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 mars 2010 - 09:55 .

[AnniLau]

[Cuddlezarro]

Annilau the only thing offending about that pic is the fact Alistair still has clothes on

[ejoslin]

I don't think there are many Alistair haters in this thread, in truth. There are a few, but most aren't. Which is WHY I don't understand the pitchforks to my Alistair comments!

[AnniLau]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Annilau the only thing offending about that pic is the fact Alistair still has clothes on

My PC is gazing at him in gooey fashion in the midst of the Zevran love thread!

[Sabriana]

Of course, the poor elven girl doesn't know yet that her heat will be broken with him. Zevran ftw.

[jenovan]

I think there's no arguing he was falling for the Warden (if not romantically, then even friend-wise) the entire time -- they've given him something he's never had before, whether it be unconditional friendship or actual affection. But, I think after everything went down with Taliesen, it may have dawned on him that there is nothing holding him back, now... perhaps he considered his freedom, and we do know he offers to stay... Maybe he had to sit there and wonder, "I actually want to stay, when I could leave, what does this mean?" Maybe he turned down the tent offer to keep his head clear and try to understand if he still felt drawn to you without the sexin's.

I guess basically, I think he's falling the whole time, and maybe struggling with it to varying degrees, but once he gets to Love, he *has* to make a decision, he can't keep trying to pretend this is a fling with no consequences, and it's that final decision he's talking about in that quote. He may well have been confused the entire time -- there's plenty of proof that he was! -- but I don't think that's what he (or more properly, the writers) meant by that exact line.

/late XD

Modifié par jenovan, 10 mars 2010 - 10:01 .

[Sabriana]

My PCs do not hate Alistair. Not at all. They just don't think he's mature enough, and later on, when he does grow up a bit, Zevran has a stranglehold on their affections.

[Creature 1]

ejoslin wrote...
I also like how in that conversation he says "We may grow fond of each other," and then at the post-coronation he says, "I have grown fond of you." It's like it went full circle there.

An archaic meaning of "fond" is "foolish".  Interesting dichotomy considering his background.  He ends up rejecting that definition. 

[AnniLau]

Sabriana wrote...

Of course, the poor elven girl doesn't know yet that her heat will be broken with him. Zevran ftw.

Nah, she's practical. They've been to the Landsmeet, he's set to be King, and she convinced him that their relationship doesn't have to end over a little thing like a political marriage.

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

I think there's no arguing he was falling for the Warden (if not romantically, then even friend-wise) the entire time -- they've given him something he's never had before, whether it be unconditional friendship or actual affection. But, I think after everything went down with Taliesen, it may have dawned on him that there is nothing holding him back, now... perhaps he considered his freedom, and we do know he offers to stay... Maybe he had to sit there and wonder, "I actually want to stay, when I could leave, what does this mean?" Maybe he turned down the tent offer to keep his head clear and try to understand if he still felt drawn to you without the sexin's.

I guess basically, I think he's falling the whole time, and maybe struggling with it to varying degrees, but once he gets to Love, he *has* to make a decision, he can't keep trying to pretend this is a fling with no consequences, and it's that final decision he's talking about in that quote. He may well have been confused the entire time -- there's plenty of proof that he was! -- but I don't think that's what's meant by that exact line.

/late XD

Zevran asks to leave if not romanced.  He asks to stay if romanced.  If he's romanced and you tell him he can leave, he says something like, "That is not the answer I was hoping for."  Just before he leaves 

Zevran actually has made his decision.

Edit: I guess that's why I always tell him, "You'd better stay.  I'd be sorely put out if you left."  Because I metagame a bit!  His NOT asking to leave is pretty important there.

Second edit: Yeh, and its why I keep going back and forth on this one.  *sigh*  It is written in such a way that it could be taken either way I suppose.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 mars 2010 - 10:04 .

[Cuddlezarro]

AnniLau wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Annilau the only thing offending about that pic is the fact Alistair still has clothes on

My PC is gazing at him in gooey fashion in the midst of the Zevran love thread!

so?

iv got pictures of Alistair getting ready for gay buttsecks with a guard in fort drakon in this thread

[Sannox]

ejoslin wrote...
Is it possible that he was confused until Taliesen, and he started refusing because he was no longer confused?  Does that make sense at all?

I think that's it.  Although I think he's genuinely confused after the first time - he really doesn't know that he's falling in love.   He has been brought up without love, and doesn't know it when he feels it.

[Creature 1]

I think he was still confused, but then confused because he knew what was going on and was trying to decide whether to dump the Warden, or maybe even run away.

[Sabriana]

Not really, considering all the banter going on. He quite happily admits everything. She means a lot to him, and from very early on. She/he is something quite special, hence his very early question about staying on. He wants to hear from her that he is welcome. Not a routine assassin request, I'm sure.

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Is it possible that he was confused until Taliesen, and he started refusing because he was no longer confused?  Does that make sense at all?

I think that's it.  Although I think he's genuinely confused after the first time - he really doesn't know that he's falling in love.   He has been brought up without love, and doesn't know it when he feels it.

YES!  Gah, you word it so much better than I do.  He is definitely conflicted when he's refusing to go to the tent, but it's more a fear than a confusion at that point.  Hmmmmm, now I know how I'll RP the romance with my latest mage.  She WILL tell Alistair that she's in love with Zev.  Ali has a lot of gifts; he'll be fine.

[Cuddlezarro]

ok off to the alienage... and then to the landsmeet



who wants to see Pictures of Xander making out with Zevran infront of his future father in law!

[barkingM1]

Sabriana wrote...

I do think that Zevran starts falling for the GW almost immediately. Think about his state of mind. He is trying to die, and she offers him mercy. He has his first real shot at freedom, ever. Gratitude is a powerful feeling, and seeing her (or him, I'm so used to my girls, sorry) in action, and being genuinely nice to him will confuse him. He never had anyone caring for him. He never had anyone actually listen to him and his pov. These are powerful experiences. Especially for someone who never was allowed them. Even aside her affection, she gives him so much more. So yes, he does find her intriguing, he is grateful, and things go on from there.

Nicely put, Sabriana, & I agree.  The GW not only offers him mercy from the start, but actually argues with Allistair in favor of accepting Zev.   Considering how he's learned how worthless he was in the Crow Masters' eyes, Zev has to be utterly gobsmacked about such an as yet unearned vote of confidence.

Hee - the moderator in my meeting actually made a John Madden reference while he was drawing on the board, & I laughed way beyond what his joke merited.  Now he thinks he's much funnier than he is, and it's all Sresla & Charsen's fault. 

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...

Hmmmmm, now I know how I'll RP the romance with my latest mage.  She WILL tell Alistair that she's in love with Zev.  Ali has a lot of gifts; he'll be fine.

Heh, I'm a little jealous -- dumping Morrigan for Zevran isn't nearly that satisfying. ;D  I do wonder what Leliana has to say, but I haven't had the willpower to romance her yet... 

[Nonvita]

I like that, Jenovan. Maybe although he's asked about the future since the beginning, it's not really until after Taliesan that he realizes he has a future he himself wants to pursue. It's no longer "what will you have me do?" it's him choosing to stay on his own, and that's what confuses him. He does mention (in a friendship dialogue, but still) that he's typically a terrible planner- he lives from day to day and always talks about how the future is uncertain. It's probably the first time he's really realized he not only *can* choose his own future, but that he *wants* to choose it. And to do that involves admitting his feelings and making himself vulnerable. It must be a scary feeling.

And ejoslin, I love watching you make them upset. If it weren't for you, I'd have put my foot in my mouth so many (more) times (than I already have).

(But I'll always adore Alistair.)

@BarkingM1: Nice.

Modifié par Nonvita, 10 mars 2010 - 10:15 .

[ejoslin]

I don't think running away was an option for Zevran, actually, nor breaking up with her. He asks to leave if not romanced, after all. He wants to be with her (or him), but suddenly realizing his feelings would definitely cause some conflict. Which brings me back to the other side. *sigh* I love this romance. So much is open.

Edit: @Nonvita I actually thought about putting a particularly nasty comment one of them made to me in my signature, but realized that would be childish.  And probably I'm the only one who would find it funny.

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 mars 2010 - 10:15 .

[AnniLau]

jenovan wrote...
 I do wonder what Leliana has to say, but I haven't had the willpower to romance her yet... 

How have you managed to avoid it? She's constantly insisting that she and my PC have something going when they absolutely don't.

[Sannox]

Cuddlezarro wrote...


also Loghain/Alistair *will* offer to sacrifice himself but only if you rejected morrigan

I might have to reload and see what happened exactly, but I was sure that Loghain offered to sacrifice himself when I talked to him after talking to Riordan.  I talked to Morrigan next and took her up on the ritual.  I thought she might suggest Loghain as an alternative, but she didn't, and it's clear when you talk to Loghain at the end that he didn't know about the ritual.   So the plan when they set off is that Riordan will try to get the killing blow, the Loghain, and the PC only if the other two fail. 

But when the dragon came down, I killed it in the cutscene.  I wasn't planning to do that.   I'd have held back and given Loghain a push in the general direction, just in case Morrigan's ritual didn't work.  (I didn't even have her in my party).   But I didn't get the option, and Loghain didn't take it, after saying he would (unless I misunderstood him).   I'd like to have a little chat to him about that.  

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...


also Loghain/Alistair *will* offer to sacrifice himself but only if you rejected morrigan

I might have to reload and see what happened exactly, but I was sure that Loghain offered to sacrifice himself when I talked to him after talking to Riordan.  I talked to Morrigan next and took her up on the ritual.  I thought she might suggest Loghain as an alternative, but she didn't, and it's clear when you talk to Loghain at the end that he didn't know about the ritual.   So the plan when they set off is that Riordan will try to get the killing blow, the Loghain, and the PC only if the other two fail. 

But when the dragon came down, I killed it in the cutscene.  I wasn't planning to do that.   I'd have held back and given Loghain a push in the general direction, just in case Morrigan's ritual didn't work.  (I didn't even have her in my party).   But I didn't get the option, and Loghain didn't take it, after saying he would (unless I misunderstood him).   I'd like to have a little chat to him about that.  

Oh, that's due to you doing the Dark Ritual.  If you've done that, you will make the killing blow.  I'm assuming this was a male PC who did the ritual with Morrigan.  If you haven't done the ritual, then you have the discussion about it.