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[Cuddlezarro]

how did my characters justify it...

Galen Aeducen: was a bastard and hated Alistair to begin with

Baren Broska: had Alistair marry Anora and felt Loghain had to redeem himself expecially since Baren has done some horrific things in his life as well(enough to earn him the death penalty many times over)

Xander: other than the fact he married his daughter, same reason as Baren(except he wasnt an Assassin for the crimelord of Orzammar and dint have much to make up for) and no I dont count "dying" as a way of redeeming ones self


edit: also with Xander a big part of sparing him was "I wanted to see how he reacts to me marrying his daughter"

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 11 mars 2010 - 03:59 .

[jenovan]

sami jo wrote...

For those of you who spare Loghain: how do your PC's justify it?

I have only done it once. The PC was putting Allistair on the throne and knew that it would be the best way to keep his new king as far away from the fighting as possible. He didn't want a repeat of Cailin and did not want Anora on the throne alone. The dark ritual has become my cannon because I have yet to have a character that would let Anora rule alone, Loghain is too vile for words, and after seeing the US ending once, I just can't do it again.

My city elf felt the same way as your PC, to some extent.  He thought there was a damn good chance the Wardens (all three of them.. ;P) would die fighting the Archdemon, and he wanted Alistair away from that.  Which sucked, because he and Ali were best buddies until then   (ahh, the good old "I don't want this to ruin our friendship" option :/ )  Besides that, he was just a very merciful person in general, and I think he was a bit less sentimental about the "honor" of becoming a Grey Warden (hey, conscripted!) than Alistair was.

It was really interesting to talk to Loghain afterwards (he calmed down a lot... heh), but I don't think I'll keep that as my canon playthrough.  It was definitely worth doing once, though.

[SurrealSadi]

Hehehe. Saetan, my mage, is already starting to ****** people off.

[Cuddlezarro]

Heres Loghain trying to divert his eyes away from the scene before him





and heres a pic of Loghains crown which i stole before the landsmeet~

[Addai]

I think I'm going to have Sereda side with the templars, unless and until Zevran can convince her otherwise. Is it better to start out siding with them (i.e. talking to Greagoir) or later with Cullen? Do you get the same Zevran chatter either way?

[Raiynsong]

love the CZ pics.



I'm never gonna do royal scandal.. too sad...



I saved loghain once because Riordan asked me to and he's hot



seriously, I saved him because we were only THREE wardens and I figured we needed 4, loghain clearly has an I h8 orlais fetish but other than that probably does care for Ferelden. My HNM admired hearing stories about him while growing up. etc. Who knew Alistair would actually stand up for something and leave. Every other time he got mad at me he'd cave and come round to my way of thinking...

[Cuddlezarro]

Addai67 wrote...

I think I'm going to have Sereda side with the templars, unless and until Zevran can convince her otherwise. Is it better to start out siding with them (i.e. talking to Greagoir) or later with Cullen? Do you get the same Zevran chatter either way?

do you want wynne to die or not? if you do side with the templars at the bottom of the tower

Zevran gets the same conversation about saving the mages either way

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

I think I'm going to have Sereda side with the templars, unless and until Zevran can convince her otherwise. Is it better to start out siding with them (i.e. talking to Greagoir) or later with Cullen? Do you get the same Zevran chatter either way?

You need to side with Cullen.  If you don't want to kill Wynne, though, make sure you swap her out of the party when you leave the fade.

Edit: CZ, I didn't know that.  I know Alistair pleads for them at the bottom of the tower.  He most override what Zevran says there.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 mars 2010 - 04:42 .

[Nonvita]

My mage will spare Loghain for the same reasons as posted- the GWs need all the help they can get, and Loghain is a proven fighter. Still haven't decided if she'll do the DR or not, but if not then Loghain will get to redeem himself.



It's kind of nice to not be romancing Zevran with my HN. Once they got past their initial hurdles, they've been on good terms and there won't be any scandals to make Zevran sad. (Sad Zevran is sad. =( ) I think my HN values friendship more than love at this point anyway, so it'll be a fairly happy ending.



And question! If you side with the templars, what happens to the Circle in the epilogue?

[sami jo]

jenovan wrote...

sami jo wrote...

For those of you who spare Loghain: how do your PC's justify it?

I have only done it once. The PC was putting Allistair on the throne and knew that it would be the best way to keep his new king as far away from the fighting as possible. He didn't want a repeat of Cailin and did not want Anora on the throne alone. The dark ritual has become my cannon because I have yet to have a character that would let Anora rule alone, Loghain is too vile for words, and after seeing the US ending once, I just can't do it again.

My city elf felt the same way as your PC, to some extent.  He thought there was a damn good chance the Wardens (all three of them.. ;P) would die fighting the Archdemon, and he wanted Alistair away from that.  Which sucked, because he and Ali were best buddies until then   (ahh, the good old "I don't want this to ruin our friendship" option :/ )  Besides that, he was just a very merciful person in general, and I think he was a bit less sentimental about the "honor" of becoming a Grey Warden (hey, conscripted!) than Alistair was.

It was really interesting to talk to Loghain afterwards (he calmed down a lot... heh), but I don't think I'll keep that as my canon playthrough.  It was definitely worth doing once, though.

I haven't had a PC who thought being a Warden was the honor Allistair thinks it is.  None of my mages have left the circle with a very high opinion of Irving, my Dalish have all been more than a little annoyed about Duncan's response to Tamlen, and my city elves were more than a little annoyed that Duncan left Soris behind.  I haven't managed to get my dwarves or human nobles past Ostagar, so they may play out differently. 

Loghain gave even my most merciful PC's pause.  He hated Orlais; and to be fair, he had good reason; but he treated the people of Fereldon just as bad as the Orlesians had.  Gaider confirmed in one of the multitude of Loghain motive threads a while back that the poisoning of Eamon happened before Ostagar and he was supporting Howe's takeover of Highever before Ostagar.  He knew about Cailin's impending peace treaty with Orlais and wanted to stop it.  He was willing to do just about anything to erode Cailin's support enough that Cailin would have to go along with him.  He may not have intended to kill Cailin off at Ostagar, but he did intend to eliminate the Grey Wardens.  Throw in torture and slavery, and there doesn't appear to be much there worth saving.  He is defined and consumed by his hatred of Orlais.  He will admit that he might have been wrong about the Wardens and the blight, but he doesn't feel any real remorse for the methods he used. He calls to mind certain other power-mad Wardens at Warden's Keep, and no matter what Riordan said, Avernus was not rushing out to help you end the Blight.

I know this is sort of off topic, but given that we are all Zev fans here, it seems like it would be a group of folks prone to giving second chances.  He is tragic; compelling even.  I just can't seem to like him and I'm looking for reasons to spare him since this go round I have a hardened and unromanced Allistair to marry off to Anora. lol

[SurrealSadi]

*snicker* I swear, playing a mage with an attitude problem is gonna be so much fun.

[Cuddlezarro]

Gaider confirmed in one of the multitude of Loghain motive threads a while back that the poisoning of Eamon happened before Ostagar and he was supporting Howe's takeover of Highever before Ostagar.

Correction Gaider only confirmed the first of those, he said Loghain didnt know about what Howe did tot he Couslands till *after* Howe had already done it

[sami jo]

SurrealSadi wrote...

*snicker* I swear, playing a mage with an attitude problem is gonna be so much fun.

Hehe.  It is.  That was my Morrigan, Oghren and Zev playthrough.  If Zev hadn't made such an excellent case for the mages, I would have slit Irving's throat myself that run.  I really hate the mage origin. My PC, and I, were both so shaken from seeing Zev's fade nightmare that we would have given him just about anything he asked for at that point.

He only set fire to a few chantries....

[Cuddlezarro]

the mage origin story should be renamed "the Origin of Jowan guest starring the main character"

[Nonvita]

Uck, the mage origin is easily the least compelling of all of them. As someone who can't stand Jowan, trying to roleplay him as a "friend" was worthy of an achievement on its own. Of all the possibilities for a mage origin, why did it have to be Jowan!?

[Cuddlezarro]

sorry but I find the Dalish origin worse than the mages

[BlastedLands]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

the mage origin story should be renamed "the Origin of Jowan guest starring the main character"

yeah, really hate it.... would've never played through it if my mage-pc had not been so gorgeous:wub:

(i'm reaching the state of sleepyness where i start to frantically mix tenses.... good night)

[jenovan]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

the mage origin story should be renamed "the Origin of Jowan guest starring the main character"

Jowan!

I let my mage help Jowan and Lily with their breakout thang and, well, that went about as I had expected.  I went back to an old save and tried to tell Irving about it, just to see how it would play out, and WOW did my opinion of that guy plummet.  Holy crap.   Even though that wasn't my canon playthrough, my concept of the First Enchanter was so shaken I couldn't help but have my mage distrust him after that.  (Found good reason for it later anyway, whee...)

[SurrealSadi]

I know... Why Jowan?!?! Not only is the character something of a pain, but his -voice-... *shudder* it's horrid!



The only good thing of that is it gave my mage plenty to think about. Saetan's learned that if someone he called friend could lie to him about blood magic, then what will others lie about to gain his support?

[Sresla]

Nonvita wrote...

And question! If you side with the templars, what happens to the Circle in the epilogue?

Cullen takes over and goes militant on them. True story.

And my mage is best friends with Jowan. His only friend in the Tower, actually - how he never managed to meet Anders is a mystery for the ages, because I think they would have gotten along, too (and he never tattled on them to the First Enchanter, though he was tempted [jealous ])

Modifié par Sresla, 11 mars 2010 - 05:13 .

[Cuddlezarro]

jenovan wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

the mage origin story should be renamed "the Origin of Jowan guest starring the main character"

Jowan!

I let my mage help Jowan and Lily with their breakout thang and, well, that went about as I had expected.  I went back to an old save and tried to tell Irving about it, just to see how it would play out, and WOW did my opinion of that guy plummet.  Holy crap.   Even though that wasn't my canon playthrough, my concept of the First Enchanter was so shaken I couldn't help but have my mage distrust him after that.  (Found good reason for it later anyway, whee...)

Irving essentually telling Wynne to mind her own buisness when your a blood mage is awesome period

and you LIKE!? Jowan?  hes whinier than Alistair is and isnt nearly as hot or well voice acted

[jenovan]

Sresla wrote...

And my mage is best friends with Jowan. His only friend in the Tower, actually - how he never managed to meet Anders is a mystery for the ages, because I think they would have gotten along, too (and he never tattled on them to the First Enchanter, though he was tempted [jealous ])

Oh good, I'm not the only Jowan-was-my-BFF player here! 

I can't wait for my mage to meet Anders, that seems like it could be a great dynamic.  (Or they'd hate each other for being too much alike? Hmm.  )

[sami jo]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Gaider confirmed in one of the multitude of Loghain motive threads a while back that the poisoning of Eamon happened before Ostagar and he was supporting Howe's takeover of Highever before Ostagar.

Correction Gaider only confirmed the first of those, he said Loghain didnt know about what Howe did tot he Couslands till *after* Howe had already done it

Either way, he wasn't objecting to Howe's methods at any point.  I believe that he didn't mean to make the Circle go "boom" either, but he made a deal with a complete slimeball there as well.  If he had been correct about Orlais, he would have had no remorse for doing far worse to his own countrymen than the Orlesians did.  He has zero remorse for selling the elves to Tevinter. 

He is ruthless.  Behlen is ruthless, but he is doing what he is doing to force much needed change on the dwarves.  And after seeing what kind of king Harrowmount becomes, I think the dwarves may need ruthless leaders.  None of my PCs have been of the "ends justify the means" bent, but at least the ends were justifiable with Behlen, even if I do feel slimey for putting him on the throne every time I do.  The mess in the alienage puts me over the edge every time. 

*sigh* I guess I'm stuck killing him for the two playthroughs I'm on now.  My FCE and MDE just don't care enough about Fereldon to care about a repeat of the Cailin debacle and neither is in love with Allistair, so they aren't of a mind to spare him the trip they are taking the rest of the crew on.

[Nonvita]

SurrealSadi wrote...

I know... Why Jowan?!?! Not only is the character something of a pain, but his -voice-... *shudder* it's horrid!

The only good thing of that is it gave my mage plenty to think about. Saetan's learned that if someone he called friend could lie to him about blood magic, then what will others lie about to gain his support?

Honestly, Jowan fails for me because he invokes no emotions from me. I don't care enough to hate him, but I don't care enough to love him so much that I feel betrayed. He's honestly just plain dumb. I don't even feel like the reunion with him will elicit much of a reaction.

Sresla wrote...

Cullen takes over and goes militant on them. True story.

Ah, interesting. I can't really decide what to do with my Dalish in this instance. She'll be anti-Chantry and anti-Circle (knowing that the Chantry seeks out Dalish mages), so I was hoping for an ending that pretty much destroys the Circle. It doesn't sound like you can get one without being a BM, though...

[jenovan]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Irving essentually telling Wynne to mind her own buisness when your a blood mage is awesome period

and you LIKE!? Jowan?  hes whinier than Alistair is and isnt nearly as hot or well voice acted

LOL! Never played a blood mage, but that does sound pretty entertaining.

(Also I hate how it takes Irving like 10 minutes to say a single sentence.. but that's just nitpicking. :| )

And yeah... I dunno, I didn't care much for Jowan at first, but I thought about my mage's backstory a bit more and I figured they were really close.  But Devin's sort of a self-absorbed snot at times, so his taste in friends may be questionable.