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sami jo wrote...
jenovan wrote...
My city elf felt the same way as your PC, to some extent. He thought there was a damn good chance the Wardens (all three of them.. ;P) would die fighting the Archdemon, and he wanted Alistair away from that. Which sucked, because he and Ali were best buddies until thensami jo wrote...
For those of you who spare Loghain: how do your PC's justify it?
I have only done it once. The PC was putting Allistair on the throne and knew that it would be the best way to keep his new king as far away from the fighting as possible. He didn't want a repeat of Cailin and did not want Anora on the throne alone. The dark ritual has become my cannon because I have yet to have a character that would let Anora rule alone, Loghain is too vile for words, and after seeing the US ending once, I just can't do it again.(ahh, the good old "I don't want this to ruin our friendship" option :/ ) Besides that, he was just a very merciful person in general, and I think he was a bit less sentimental about the "honor" of becoming a Grey Warden (hey, conscripted!) than Alistair was.
It was really interesting to talk to Loghain afterwards (he calmed down a lot... heh), but I don't think I'll keep that as my canon playthrough. It was definitely worth doing once, though.
I haven't had a PC who thought being a Warden was the honor Allistair thinks it is. None of my mages have left the circle with a very high opinion of Irving, my Dalish have all been more than a little annoyed about Duncan's response to Tamlen, and my city elves were more than a little annoyed that Duncan left Soris behind. I haven't managed to get my dwarves or human nobles past Ostagar, so they may play out differently.
Loghain gave even my most merciful PC's pause. He hated Orlais; and to be fair, he had good reason; but he treated the people of Fereldon just as bad as the Orlesians had. Gaider confirmed in one of the multitude of Loghain motive threads a while back that the poisoning of Eamon happened before Ostagar and he was supporting Howe's takeover of Highever before Ostagar. He knew about Cailin's impending peace treaty with Orlais and wanted to stop it. He was willing to do just about anything to erode Cailin's support enough that Cailin would have to go along with him. He may not have intended to kill Cailin off at Ostagar, but he did intend to eliminate the Grey Wardens. Throw in torture and slavery, and there doesn't appear to be much there worth saving. He is defined and consumed by his hatred of Orlais. He will admit that he might have been wrong about the Wardens and the blight, but he doesn't feel any real remorse for the methods he used. He calls to mind certain other power-mad Wardens at Warden's Keep, and no matter what Riordan said, Avernus was not rushing out to help you end the Blight.
I know this is sort of off topic, but given that we are all Zev fans here, it seems like it would be a group of folks prone to giving second chances. He is tragic; compelling even. I just can't seem to like him and I'm looking for reasons to spare him since this go round I have a hardened and unromanced Allistair to marry off to Anora. lol
Here's how my "mature" mage saw the Loghain situation.
Loghain is the greatest general Fereldon has ever known. We face a huge army and we'll be using professional troops. There are still Loghain supporters in the land.
So...
#1 We are guerilla fighters essentially--not military strategists. That is Loghain's strength. Since he agrees to become a GW for the good of the country, it is best that Loghain be used as one more great resource. Since he is no longer going to be regent, he has no opportunity to behave badly.
#2 It will help unite Fereldon and heal the wounds of civil war if we play on the same team against the darkspawn. At a time of invasion, this is an important consideration.
#3 As a mage I had "pardoned" or "redeemed" some pretty irredeemable characters includingJowan even though he hurt me personally, I put my feelings aside and let him redeem himself by entering the fade to save Connor. It would be hypocritical of that character not to give the same opportunity to Loghain. If I can take on Sten who murdered innocents and Zevran who killed innocents for the Crows, because I believe in my
party they can find redemption, the same rule holds true for Loghain. Otherwise, my character is being hypocritical. The whole point of "redemption" is that we put our personal feelings aside against those who have hurt us, and the people we care about--it's easy to redeem people who have not hurt us--it's painful to put our emotions aside and redeem someone we'd prefer to hate. Since I played my mage as older and wiser--this is the position he was wise enough to take.
I was glad I played it out. It was the most satisfying ending I went through--by a long shot.
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(Mages do kinda get cheated... only one mage origin? Pfft.)
