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[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

So true.  I think the truly amazing thing about Zevran is that he isn't broken.  You can even get him to admit that being cold is just not something that comes to him naturally.  Ok, just *sigh* again.  SO much to the character.

Yes, the line "It should come naturally, but alas it is not so for me." was very telling. To the observant it is very clear that despite his shock-value statements, he does regret a lot of things. He slips up every now and then, and  his facial expression is just..., just... ah well, you all know what I mean.

The same goes when my PCs ask him "what about love?" Boy did he have me startled there and feeling quite bad for him. Too bad you loose approval with him for that, although it is understandable. She forces him into parts of his emotional brain he does not want to go. Thank goodness it's easy to make it up to him, and the PC doesn't have to betray her own feelings and emotions to do so.

I still think that the line about his mother: "She died giving birth to me. My first victim, so to speak." is the most heart-breaking of all. His facial expression makes me want to reach out and hug him.

Ahem..., I mean it makes my PC want to reach out and hug him. Her. Not me. Anyone just so much as mentions Freud, gets a virtual kick in the shins.

[Addai]

Ok, so giving up any pretense that we're not being completely campy and sappy here... I am wondering if there are any love songs that remind you of the Zevran romance. My mental catalog of song titles is limited but I am sure there has to be, since it is ballad-worthy.

[Sabriana]

@ Addai

You are a bad person. You are a very bad person. Now you have me wracking my brain trying to remember songs. Bad, bad Addai. Lol and rofl.

[ejoslin]

Ugh, it's obvious (though I can't take the credit here). "I would do anything for love" by Meatloaf.

Ok, I need to go shoot myself now!

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 janvier 2010 - 05:40 .

[jenovan]

Sabriana wrote...

Zevran never thought more than sex being a simple pleasure. He even says something akin to that in the very beginning, when the PC asks him about his history with women.
Suddenly it morphs into a whole other dimension, and he becomes confused. It wasn't supposed to be like that. It was never supposed to mean more than pleasure, but suddenly it takes on a life of its own. It goes against everything he was taught, brainwashed into, and believed. No wonder the poor elf got utterly confused.
Imagine if what you believed in your whole life, what was preached to you over and over again, suddenly seems to be proven untrue. By your own experience and feelings. Poor man. Poor Zevran.

Beautifully stated.    As they say in forum-speak, +1.

ejoslin wrote...
Though he approves when the PC has sex with other people . . .  I don't know, that does seem inconsistent with it being special right from the very beginning. 

That seemed strange to me too, given some of the stuff that's been revealed on this thread.  I could see it making sense if his approval for those things diminished based on his overall feelings for the character (i.e., the more he loved/adored you, the less happy he'd be about you sleeping with someone else)...  It doesn't sound like that's the case, though.  Or is it? 

[Sabriana]

Thank you Jenovan



And you're both right, it makes little sense. Especially in view of Zevran stating "I'm many things. I'm an assassin, a killer, but I'm no cheat." when he demands that you break off with Alistair.



Ejoslin, there is a youtube video floating around here that is very, very good. The creator used Meatloaf's "I do anything for love, but not that." and she focuses on the broodmother for that. I don't think I can get my head out of that image.

[jenovan]

Addai67 wrote...

Ok, so giving up any pretense that we're not being completely campy and sappy here... I am wondering if there are any love songs that remind you of the Zevran romance. My mental catalog of song titles is limited but I am sure there has to be, since it is ballad-worthy.

Oh, my favorite thing in the world to do for characters. Ever. XD

 "Enjoy the Silence" by Depeche Mode is one...
A friend introduced me to Blaqk Audio last week and I thought their "Bitter for Sweet" also kind of fits, although I wouldn't call that a ballad by a long shot.  

[Maddyanne]

Perhaps he sees it as a different sort of thing? Sex as adventure with someone you all might never see again versus being in a relationship with another party member? It gives the PC a basis of comparison with Zev's charming self and might cheer her/him up a bit, after all.

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Ugh, it's obvious (though I can't take the credit here). "I would do anything for love" by Meatloaf.

Ok, I need to go shoot myself now!

Oh wow, I've never paid attention to the lyrics of that song but it is, indeed, perfect.  Wow.  Verklempt!

[ejoslin]

Maddyanne wrote...

Perhaps he sees it as a different sort of thing? Sex as adventure with someone you all might never see again versus being in a relationship with another party member? It gives the PC a basis of comparison with Zev's charming self and might cheer her/him up a bit, after all.

It is more likely, I guess.  I know he approves +6 with Cammen with a dwarf female he hasn't slept with and +4 with a dwarf female he has slept with (gah, yes, I've tested it), though it may be an approval thing.  However, with an elf, it's +4 no matter what the approval or relationship is (Alistair, even in love, doesn't care about Cammen, even modded Cammen who is kinda cute *grin*).  Not sure about human, and I'm not sure I have a human save game close enough to that to test, but human and dwarf approval seem to be the same in other things.

I do think you're right -- he's threatened by the relationship once he hits adore, not by the sex.  After he falls in love, it's impossible to sleep with any NPC, unfortunately.  He does talk to you if you're going to marry Alistair for political reasons, and refers to it as a problem, but not one he wants to worry about before the archdemon is slain anyway.  But unfortunately, Cammen as a possibility ends when you solve the werewolves, and Isabela is gone once things start coming to a head.  I don't think there are any other NPCs a female can sleep with outside of the origin stories.  Guys definitely get more options in this game!

[AndreaDraco]

Beside my 3nd playthrough of a Dalish Rogue (which offers some nice option with Zev), I'm also doing a Human Noble Warrior. I was thinking of becoming King, of course, but I wonder... how exactly plays out Zev's relationship if you become King (or Queen) and are thus married for political reasons? I mean, I've read about the political scandal convo, but is it a path worth embarking upon?

What better place to ask then here?

Modifié par AndreaDraco, 13 janvier 2010 - 06:28 .

[Sabriana]

AndreaDraco wrote...

Beside my 3nd playthrough of a Dalish Rogue (which offers some nice option with Zev), I'm also doing a Human Noble Warrior. I was thinking of becoming King, of course, but I wonder... how exactly plays out Zev's relationship if you become King (or Queen) and are thus married for political reasons? I mean, I've read about the political scandal convo, but is it a path worth embarking upon?

What better place to ask then here?

Indeed. I sort of know what can happen if the PC becomes the queen, but I'd be very interested in finding out what happens if the PC becomes the king.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

AndreaDraco wrote...

Beside my 3nd playthrough of a Dalish Rogue (which offers some nice option with Zev), I'm also doing a Human Noble Warrior. I was thinking of becoming King, of course, but I wonder... how exactly plays out Zev's relationship if you become King (or Queen) and are thus married for political reasons? I mean, I've read about the political scandal convo, but is it a path worth embarking upon?

What better place to ask then here?

Indeed. I sort of know what can happen if the PC becomes the queen, but I'd be very interested in finding out what happens if the PC becomes the king.

For the female, it most certainly is.  Never romancing Alistair and becoming queen gives one of the most satisfying endings there are.  This is what the card says (heh, yes, I have a screen shot):

Elissa married King Alistair in a lavish ceremony 6 months after his coronation, becoming the princess-consort of Ferelden.  As both their savior and new ruler, she proved incredibly popular among the people, and Alistair allowed his bride a great deal of leeway to act as she wished.

Now, I understand when the male becomes king, it's even better, that there's a new golden age.  The epilogue card regarding Zevran does not change, and it depends on whether you choose to stay, travel, or rebuild the gray wardens. But all Zevran really cares about is if you want to stay with him.  He does say that he wants to talk about it later, but for now there's a good chance that one or both of you will die, in which case, problem solved!

Edit to add:  Royal scandal does not affect any of the other dialog.  You can still get the second offer of earring and implied proposal.  Zevran understands a marriage for political reasons, and since Anora can't be romanced, you don't even have to worry about that loose end (Alistair still goes through with the marriage even if you dump him, strangely).

Second edit: In order to get this epilogue card, you can never have romanced Alistair.  If that boy ever fell in love with you, you get the "beloved bride" one which sucks if you ask me!  You save Ferelden and all the people can see is that Ali luvs you!

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 janvier 2010 - 06:54 .

[AndreaDraco]

I must see what happens when my PC will be King of Ferelden. Of course I'd want Zev by my side, and, in that playthrough, I'm planning on sacrificing Loghain or Alistair, so I'll be around after the Archdemon's dead to see what happens

[ejoslin]

AndreaDraco wrote...

I must see what happens when my PC will be King of Ferelden. Of course I'd want Zev by my side, and, in that playthrough, I'm planning on sacrificing Loghain or Alistair, so I'll be around after the Archdemon's dead to see what happens

Sacrifice Loghain if you want it to work . . .   I get a warm-fuzzy feeling thinking of Zev's son on the throne!  I love that you get an option to tell Alistair that you are going to be trying to have a baby with someone else!  

Edit: And by sacrifice Loghain I mean feed him to the archdemon.  Anora has bad thoughts about people who execute her daddy and Alistair grows a pair if he does the deed.

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 janvier 2010 - 06:55 .

[Sabriana]

Yes, and do let us know, Andrea. I can't play a male, and no, it's not because I don't like men. I love men as much as I love my own kind, as a matter of fact, but I just can't role-play one. It feels flat, one-dimensional, and I lose interest fast.



Ejoslin, your little revenge plots have me in stitches, and I absolutely love them. It is strange, simply because this is just a game, but my mage and I were so thoroughly hurt by Alistair in my very first, very unspoiled play-through that it took me month to even consider Alistair being a friend on my subsequent play-throughs. Yes, I was so very, very hurt for my poor misguided mage.



My only revenge was that Alistair was put into the camp indefinitely as soon as Sten was available. I couldn't even stand to hear his voice. My poor, poor little mage. She didn't deserve this after all she did for Alistair. Now, half-way through my 3rd, I can be more forgiving. He's not around a lot, but my PC can be friends with him. But never, ever anything more.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Yes, and do let us know, Andrea. I can't play a male, and no, it's not because I don't like men. I love men as much as I love my own kind, as a matter of fact, but I just can't role-play one. It feels flat, one-dimensional, and I lose interest fast.

Ejoslin, your little revenge plots have me in stitches, and I absolutely love them. It is strange, simply because this is just a game, but my mage and I were so thoroughly hurt by Alistair in my very first, very unspoiled play-through that it took me month to even consider Alistair being a friend on my subsequent play-throughs. Yes, I was so very, very hurt for my poor misguided mage.

My only revenge was that Alistair was put into the camp indefinitely as soon as Sten was available. I couldn't even stand to hear his voice. My poor, poor little mage. She didn't deserve this after all she did for Alistair. Now, half-way through my 3rd, I can be more forgiving. He's not around a lot, but my PC can be friends with him. But never, ever anything more.

You know, I think it's actually really sad the sheer amount of time I devoted to getting even with Alistair.  A fictional character.  But yes, that dumping in the crowded room, in front of my closest friends who I've been leading through hell -- after being made general of all of Ferelden's armies on top of the armies I raised -- just heartless.  And trying to talk to him about it afterwards.  Yes, he shows so much regret, especially if you tell him he'll make a good king, but . . . wow, in a crowded room!  Just before you go off to battle!  And you're the freaking general of many armies!  What a mean AND stupid thing to do.  Because it will be harder for him if he waits to see how it all pans out, you see.  Hahahaha, ALL about him!

I now take him with me when I don't play a warrior sometimes -- he does add to some dialogs. This time around I'm playing a blood mage, and I"m tempted to leave everyone but Zevran (with assassin/ranger spec to complement her) in camp as the class is SO overpowered.  Besides, blood mage/rogue would be fun.  It's not like anything ever has chance to hit you.  But then you lose the party dialog, and I can't imagine not having that.  I'm not one of those people who would attempt to go through the game solo for sure.

[Sabriana]

True, oh so true. I think that's why I don't like the fade sequence. I have the mod that turns the darn blurring off, but I so miss my companions. Especially you know who.



A blood mage? I have to yet get that unlocked. I never could bring myself to kill or sacrifice Connor. I'll have to do it at some point, but even the reload option doesn't make me feel better. Maybe it's because I so utterly loathe Isolde. Stupid, stupid woman. It doesn't help her cause that Teagan would be very interesting to my PC were it not for Zevran.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

True, oh so true. I think that's why I don't like the fade sequence. I have the mod that turns the darn blurring off, but I so miss my companions. Especially you know who.

A blood mage? I have to yet get that unlocked. I never could bring myself to kill or sacrifice Connor. I'll have to do it at some point, but even the reload option doesn't make me feel better. Maybe it's because I so utterly loathe Isolde. Stupid, stupid woman. It doesn't help her cause that Teagan would be very interesting to my PC were it not for Zevran.

You know, getting blood mage doesn't exactly involve killing Conner.  It can involve killing Isolde, however.  Which is the path I always take now anyway.  I cannot stand her and she deserves to die for all the people she killed.

Edit: Wynne will rat you out if she suspects you of being a blood mage, though, to Irving and Gregoir.  I spared her life, saved the circle, and she tries to get me arrested as a malificar!  And then I have to take her with me anyway!  *grin*  I have to laugh at that; the game has some great touches.

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 janvier 2010 - 07:38 .

[Addai]

Awww to the Ali-rage, I guess I was spared a bit because I did know that little spoiler ahead of time. But I still felt the wrenching in my Alistair-as-king playthroughs. Now I also feel like a heel for mostly ignoring Zevran in all my earlier playthroughs, since even on the ones where I friended him I didn't make an effort to understand his character. Not that I'm worried about having slighted a fictional character or anything... *whistles nonchalantly*

[ejoslin]

I'm glad I didn't read any spoilers -- I had no clue it was coming, and was shocked at my reaction. I sat in front of my monitor, just staring, unable to believe it, feeling completely heart broken. You know, I had been looking forward to getting on the game, playing it, seeing what new dialogs came up . . . I really was emotionally involved. And it really did hurt.

I had convinced Zevran to stay, though he and I had been friends, not more. He didn't even fight with me in the Taliesin enounter but he wasn't in my group so no biggie, I rarely spoke with him, though I did give him all his gifts. And I swear, it was a bit out of spite (YES! I know this is lame! SPITE over a video game character ROFL) that I started up that romance. And was completely blown away. AND jaded enough that I turned down that earring the first time it was offered -- no way was I getting fooled again, and he wasn't even saying it meant anything! And it completely turned the game around for me. Then, since I never fought with him, I tried to leave him at the gates, and he looked so heartbroken and gave his "dark city" speech . . . My first and only reload that game. And every playthrough since I've romanced Zevran and it still hasn't gotten old.

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 janvier 2010 - 08:15 .

[Addai]

About Alistair and Zevran: One of the things I'm noticing in this Zevran go-round is that though everyone else has banter about your relationship with Zevran (I just love them BTW, esp. Morrigan's where she is constantly needling him about "aren't you going to finish the job- your reputation as a Crow is on the line- it's what I'd do" LOL), I haven't heard a peep out of Alistair. It is a little sad actually, the game makes it clear that Alistair is jealous of Zevran even from day one, as shown by him questioning Leliana about whether women really go for someone like that. So his silence speaks volumes. Unless there's a dialogue I haven't gotten yet?



I'm also wondering where in Alistair's party-gossip dialogue you say "Zevran and I have a connection"? I have seen that before but when I did it this time, I didn't find that dialogue option.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

About Alistair and Zevran: One of the things I'm noticing in this Zevran go-round is that though everyone else has banter about your relationship with Zevran (I just love them BTW, esp. Morrigan's where she is constantly needling him about "aren't you going to finish the job- your reputation as a Crow is on the line- it's what I'd do" LOL), I haven't heard a peep out of Alistair. It is a little sad actually, the game makes it clear that Alistair is jealous of Zevran even from day one, as shown by him questioning Leliana about whether women really go for someone like that. So his silence speaks volumes. Unless there's a dialogue I haven't gotten yet?

I'm also wondering where in Alistair's party-gossip dialogue you say "Zevran and I have a connection"? I have seen that before but when I did it this time, I didn't find that dialogue option.

Ali has to be at least at interested to get it.  When Ali asks you if you really trust Zevran, you answer, "Yes, I do."  He answers something like, "Why?  That's a lot of trust to put in someone who tried to kill you." and there, if you're romancing Ali, you can say, "He and I have a connection."  And Ali responds, "Yes, I can see that."  You get an extra +1 approval for that answer as well.  I guess points for honesty?

I love the way Zevran handles the ribbing.  Ali would just get so embarrassed and either try to change the subject or ignore it, while Zevran just happily admits to everything and complements the PC further.  

Edit: You know, you're right.  Alistair NEVER brings up the romance.  Though if you've romanced and dumped Ali then romanced Zevran, you'll still get the Zevran giving Ali sex tips dialog, which is a bit out of place.

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 janvier 2010 - 08:31 .

[Sabriana]

Talk about shocking. My poor little mage had quite a few. First, getting unceremoniously dumped by the person she spent the whole game supporting, building up, swallowing her pride for. Then being consoled and supported by Zevran, who she flirted with but otherwise ignored more or less. Talk about turn-arounds.

My next play through was my HN rogue/ranger and she went for Zevran first and exclusively. Although somehow she managed to turn both Lelianna and Alistair into love interests. Don't ask me how, but shoes and hair had something to do wiht Leliana, but I can't for the world of me figure out what turned the Love thing on for Alistair. My HN studiously avoided anything that could even remotely count as flirting with him.

I'm also worshiping the ground Ejoslin walks on in all Zevran matters, and if she wants to make a Zevran wiki or something she has my complete support and help, lol.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Talk about shocking. My poor little mage had quite a few. First, getting unceremoniously dumped by the person she spent the whole game supporting, building up, swallowing her pride for. Then being consoled and supported by Zevran, who she flirted with but otherwise ignored more or less. Talk about turn-arounds.
My next play through was my HN rogue/ranger and she went for Zevran first and exclusively. Although somehow she managed to turn both Lelianna and Alistair into love interests. Don't ask me how, but shoes and hair had something to do wiht Leliana, but I can't for the world of me figure out what turned the Love thing on for Alistair. My HN studiously avoided anything that could even remotely count as flirting with him.
I'm also worshiping the ground Ejoslin walks on in all Zevran matters, and if she wants to make a Zevran wiki or something she has my complete support and help, lol.

I spent some time correcting the current Zevran wiki.  Oh dear, that IS lame!  But there were a lot of errors in it.