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Cuddlezarro wrote...
Cuddle.....What mod are you using for Leli? I find her kind of creepy looking.
if its creepy looking then it suits her...because she *is* creepy
sami jo wrote...
@ES: tell us how you really feel about the silly redhead.
I don't hate the character. She is kind of pathetic to me. I have certainly encountered women and a few men who will try to contort themselves into anything their love interest wants. It is far from appealing to me, but she would be fine as a companion. The ninja-love thing adds a whole other level of crazy to her. I had one playthrough in which I broke up with her three times before I hit level 12. I just stopped talking to her entirely for the rest of that run after that.
Default137 wrote...
I think Alistair always offers the rose, he's trying to "be a man" and take the initiative, at least thats the impression I got, even if you don't show any interest in him, its more of a "might as well try to see if she'll like me :3" kind of thing.
As for Zevran's accent, its nothing, the VO was told to do an accent similar to a Spanish accent, but not quite, and thats what the VO did, the closest thing to it would be Spanish, but its not exactly close enough to it, more of a cheap Spanish version.
Jaulen wrote...
Cuddlezarro wrote...
Cuddle.....What mod are you using for Leli? I find her kind of creepy looking.
if its creepy looking then it suits her...because she *is* creepy
When I played my goody-two-shoes CEM, and romanced Leli, all was good until the 'eyelashes in a jar' speech.....if the CEM had a'Run away! Run away!' option, he would ahve taken it in a heart beat! Butt nekkid and all!
sami jo wrote...
@Jaulen: I'm pretty sure his VA is American. I'd say he was aiming for Spanish, but the accent drifts a bit.
Swifty wrote...
"Eyelashes in a jar" speech? Man, I am missing something, for sure:crying:
sami jo wrote...
Swifty wrote...
"Eyelashes in a jar" speech? Man, I am missing something, for sure:crying:
After the first tent with her she goes on about how she was watching you sleep and talks about putting your eyelashes in a jar. That was when my first PC decided he was only snogging Zev.
Yes, but she giggles about it. I was thinking, "No, really lady. You are completely loony."Cuddlezarro wrote...
sami jo wrote...
Swifty wrote...
"Eyelashes in a jar" speech? Man, I am missing something, for sure:crying:
After the first tent with her she goes on about how she was watching you sleep and talks about putting your eyelashes in a jar. That was when my first PC decided he was only snogging Zev.
you also get to call her crazy to her face
Swifty wrote...
#2 It will help unite Fereldon and heal the wounds of civil war if we play on the same team against the darkspawn. At a time of invasion, this is an important consideration.
AnniLau wrote...
And then there was a bit of a conga line with the Darkspawn...
Modifié par Arundor, 11 mars 2010 - 07:17 .
Arundor wrote...
Wow, the thread is moving very quickly this evening.Swifty wrote...
#2 It will help unite Fereldon and heal the wounds of civil war if we play on the same team against the darkspawn. At a time of invasion, this is an important consideration.
Great point, I had not thought of this before.
In all the dialogue paths I've chosen, even before making the final decision Alistair makes it clear that he won't serve alongside Loghain. So even without metagame knowledge I always knew that recruiting Loghain wouldn't give us more Grey Wardens, it would just replace one of them. The question for me became whether Loghain would be more useful than Alistair. For most of my characters the answer has been "no". The "good" ones have been friends with Alistair and didn't want to let him down, and the "evil" ones supported him and put him on the throne with the intent of pulling his strings from behind the scenes.AnniLau wrote...
And then there was a bit of a conga line with the Darkspawn...
Hah, I love it.
Re: Jowan and mage origin comments, I too have been frustrated with the lack of options there. Irving seems like a reasonable guy when you meet him during the circle treaty quest, but he comes off as a bit of a scoundrel during the origin story. From my perspective, at any rate. Despite Jowan being whiney, I still feel sympathy for him. Forcefully tranquilling someone seems barbaric so I try to help him. The game doesn't really give the option to succeed at that, but I try anyway.
An apostate mage origin would be fantastic. Or at least a side quest for circle mages to go destroy they phylactery and turn apostate, that would be good too.
Swifty wrote...
It took a lot of looking at the Loghain thing from many sides. As I've said before, I think people should try it. It's not a good/evil dichotomy really except in the *reasons* for which you keep him alive. It's well worth it for the story and the understanding of his experiences and actually for making sense out of the entire plot--even why Maric didn't accept Alistair and why.
Modifié par Arundor, 11 mars 2010 - 07:42 .
Arundor wrote...
Swifty wrote...
It took a lot of looking at the Loghain thing from many sides. As I've said before, I think people should try it. It's not a good/evil dichotomy really except in the *reasons* for which you keep him alive. It's well worth it for the story and the understanding of his experiences and actually for making sense out of the entire plot--even why Maric didn't accept Alistair and why.
Oh, I know, I did spare Loghain in one of my playthroughs.
He certainly does have some thought-provoking things to say. I do agree that he is a well written character, it's just that I don't often create characters with a roleplaying background that would support sparing Loghain.
Modifié par Arundor, 11 mars 2010 - 08:07 .
His banter with Dog also evoked an "Aww, poor guy" response from me.
Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 11 mars 2010 - 08:07 .
EccentricSage wrote...
Zevran knew nothing but abuse, and that all he was good for was to be used by others. It's implied that he was a child prostitute, and then we know he was sold to the Crows at 7, and resisted their training at first. Only the strongest survived. Before he even reached puberty, he must have seen the horrific deaths of countless peers. Even after he accepted his lot in life, and tried to find a sense of pride in being good at what he does, thee was still a mercyful and kind side that was never snuffed out. Despite having the best excuses anyone could have for such actions in his past, he never asks to be forgiven or pitied. In fact, he reserves his judgement of others more than most would, because he feels he has no right to judge, given his background. I find that nothing short of moving and heroic, really.
Lel... She did what she did of her own volition, because it was a fun bloody fantasy to her and she lets others who are beautiful and powerful make decisions for her, so that she can be beautiful and powerful by proxy. She plays the lost magical little princess, when realy she's a fairly cold blooded killer, and then blames her actions on those who she had willingly given power over her to. It's Marjolain's fault Lel did bad bad icky things and enjoyed it. Marjolain hurt too many people and must be stopped! Oh gosh golly, she hopes she's not becoming like Marjolain! *gag* I wanted to slap her and tell her she CHOSE to serve Marjolain and that if anything, that makes her worse than Marjolain, because at least Marjolain knew herself and made her own decisions. I wanted to tell her I have no respect for her. Instead the dialogue options ranged from '*pat pat* There there... you are a good person.' to 'But killing IS fun! Everything you've ever done is OK!' Really, I think she's horribly written towards the end of her friendship dialogues.
And in real life I know of Marry Sue personality types and people who will do anything for one special someone. That's their choice. I won't coddle them. I certainly won't trust nor respect them. Girls with Marry-Sue complexes are dangerously deceitful and deceptively self centered. They deserve no kindness for the games they play. .
Arundor wrote...
I hadn't intended to imply that sparing Loghain is a good or evil action. I perhaps erroneously used them as over-simplified descriptors of my characters' roleplaying backgrounds. I tend to plan out a particular personality for my each of my characters ahead of time, and so far only one those has been the type who would be willing to spare Loghain. I still have more in store for the future so at some point I may be taking Loghain with me again.
I was also impressed at how Loghain didn't particularly care if the PC hated him. He knew his crimes, and despite believing they were for the greater good, I think he felt bad enough about the negative impact of what he had done. He didn't need someone else to scream at him about everything that had gone wrong.
His banter with Dog also evoked an "Aww, poor guy" response from me.
Swifty wrote...
When Loghain said, "It is harder to send others to die than it is to die yourself because you have to live with it" truer words were never spoken. When it came time for him to sacrifice I wanted to stop him. Watching him do it, after seeing what was under all the bluster, was incredibly painful. Far more painful that USing myself.
I suppose if I were playing a character that did it for practical reasons the impact would be much different. But playing it from the viewpoint of a character who believes all life is sacred and all deserve redemption, watching him jump the dragon was excruciating. It time locked into taking forever for the cut scene, if that makes any sense.
Modifié par Nonvita, 11 mars 2010 - 08:32 .
Swifty wrote...
EccentricSage wrote...
Zevran knew nothing but abuse, and that all he was good for was to be used by others. It's implied that he was a child prostitute, and then we know he was sold to the Crows at 7, and resisted their training at first. Only the strongest survived. Before he even reached puberty, he must have seen the horrific deaths of countless peers. Even after he accepted his lot in life, and tried to find a sense of pride in being good at what he does, thee was still a mercyful and kind side that was never snuffed out. Despite having the best excuses anyone could have for such actions in his past, he never asks to be forgiven or pitied. In fact, he reserves his judgement of others more than most would, because he feels he has no right to judge, given his background. I find that nothing short of moving and heroic, really.
Lel... She did what she did of her own volition, because it was a fun bloody fantasy to her and she lets others who are beautiful and powerful make decisions for her, so that she can be beautiful and powerful by proxy. She plays the lost magical little princess, when realy she's a fairly cold blooded killer, and then blames her actions on those who she had willingly given power over her to. It's Marjolain's fault Lel did bad bad icky things and enjoyed it. Marjolain hurt too many people and must be stopped! Oh gosh golly, she hopes she's not becoming like Marjolain! *gag* I wanted to slap her and tell her she CHOSE to serve Marjolain and that if anything, that makes her worse than Marjolain, because at least Marjolain knew herself and made her own decisions. I wanted to tell her I have no respect for her. Instead the dialogue options ranged from '*pat pat* There there... you are a good person.' to 'But killing IS fun! Everything you've ever done is OK!' Really, I think she's horribly written towards the end of her friendship dialogues.
And in real life I know of Marry Sue personality types and people who will do anything for one special someone. That's their choice. I won't coddle them. I certainly won't trust nor respect them. Girls with Marry-Sue complexes are dangerously deceitful and deceptively self centered. They deserve no kindness for the games they play. .
I took out your last part because it's irrelevent to the case you're making and I know that legal case quite well, thanks. Not quite as psychologically simple as you would put it either, although I have little sympathy for either perpetrator.
You *do* have a point with Leliana because I remember her saying at one point that she knew exactly how to manipulate men and I confronted her on that point. I also noted that without flirting at all {My MC was a gay elf on playthrough 2} she still fell in love and carried on even though I was absolutely clear that I was not interested. Alistair forced me to "dump" her on playthrough #1 because he thought she was in love. I was neutral on her.
I suspect those who find her "creepy" have a point--it's as if she simply chameleons to whatever fantasy she thinks you might have [which is funny enough because as a gay Dalish elf who only desired my own kind anyway--she would be about as far down the list as the broodmother]
Now Morrigan to me is the consummate sociopath. She has one agenda only. To get her GodBaby and by hook or by crook she's going to get it.
And you're right, in some conversations there are a lack of options of psychologically sound things that many MC's might say.
And I have to wonder here. Short of the MC the women in the party are a problem. Liliana is a love hound, Morrigan is a sociopath and Wynne is not a romance option.
On the other side we have Alistair who is a boy/man [at least he's not dangerous as are the two female romance characters] and Zevran who, male or female is the most mature romance character in the entire group.
I absolutely agree that Zev is a brilliantly written character.
EccentricSage wrote...
Morrigan... I think she is the product of her upbringing, truly, and she does show emotions at some points that seem authentic. Her character does soften. But then, there's a lot of scenarios with her I've not played through yet. Why have I not seen a 'Justifying Morrigan' thread? lol I'm really hoping she will turn out to be capable of caring for others, truly. I at least have to give her points for being honest with my character and not pretending to be sweet and inocent. I feel like with Morrigan, I KNOW what I'm getting myself into, to some degree at least, much like with Zevran. When she tells you about herself, she's verry streight forward about things that she knows might make you uncomfortable or even disguested, depending on who you are and your worldview. Ultimately, she's very survivalistic. Like a wild animal, her continued wellfare and freedom are more important to her than anything else... and I actually realy respect that.
Granted my first character is my Dalish, and Morrigan's views on life are very natural. Easy for someone who lives close to nature and knows what it is to be both a hunter and the hunted to sympathise with. But on the other hand, who knows. I heard there will be times when she says some pretty awfull things, but then, I've played out some of those scenarios and found that in context, she wasn't being monsterous... like at the mage's tower, when she said she didn't want to save people who give up their freedom. Her view of the situation wasn't entirely fair, but it was highly understandable given her background and what is being asked of her.
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