35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Sannox]

I may have made a mistake because I was reloading at that point to see what happened. I'll see if I can find a save from around that time to test it out again.

[Sabriana]

Like I said, I never had that happen either. No tent, not for the FemWarden



The selection thingie still works, although I don't know if the triggering still works. My PC is in the Korcari Wilds, and I'm not aware of any blurb-triggers. If you want to try, here's how I do it:

Put the party on 'hold'

Select the PC

Hold down 'shift', and select the NPC

The PC and the selected NPC should now be the only one's moving.

[ejoslin]

Yeh, I know for a fact that he won't go to the tent if not romanced in a femwarden playthrough. And you always get caught if you go to the tent too much because once he and someone else are at adore, they force you to choose. And Zev gives +1 for every trip to the tent.

Edit: Thanks Sabriana.  I'm in RtO right now (heh, it really annoys me, but at least it's short and Ali gets some shiny armor) but as soon as I get out, I'll run to Denerim with Sten to get that dialog.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 mars 2010 - 03:36 .

[Addai]

SurrealSadi wrote...

Wonderful shots, Sresla! I do agree, the first does look better.

Good shots, yes.  I actually like the 2nd, because Zevran looks more contemplative.  I always like that brief little glimpse at my character.  It's one of the few times you see your PC with a facial expression and a bit of life in the eyes.

Your PC is gorgeous, Sresla. 

[Swifty]

EccentricSage wrote...

Swifty wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

Zevran knew nothing but abuse, and that all he was good for was to be used by others. It's implied that he was a child prostitute, and then we know he was sold to the Crows at 7, and resisted their training at first. Only the strongest survived. Before he even reached puberty, he must have seen the horrific deaths of countless peers. Even after he accepted his lot in life, and tried to find a sense of pride in being good at what he does, thee was still a mercyful and kind side that was never snuffed out. Despite having the best excuses anyone could have for such actions in his past, he never asks to be forgiven or pitied. In fact, he reserves his judgement of others more than most would, because he feels he has no right to judge, given his background. I find that nothing short of moving and heroic, really.

Lel... She did what she did of her own volition, because it was a fun bloody fantasy to her and she lets others who are beautiful and powerful make decisions for her, so that she can be beautiful and powerful by proxy. She plays the lost magical little princess, when realy she's a fairly cold blooded killer, and then blames her actions on those who she had willingly given power over her to. It's Marjolain's fault Lel did bad bad icky things and enjoyed it. Marjolain hurt too many people and must be stopped! Oh gosh golly, she hopes she's not becoming like Marjolain! *gag* I wanted to slap her and tell her she CHOSE to serve Marjolain and that if anything, that makes her worse than Marjolain, because at least Marjolain knew herself and made her own decisions. I wanted to tell her I have no respect for her. Instead the dialogue options ranged from '*pat pat* There there... you are a good person.' to 'But killing IS fun! Everything you've ever done is OK!' Really, I think she's horribly written towards the end of her friendship dialogues.

And in real life I know of Marry Sue personality types and people who will do anything for one special someone. That's their choice. I won't coddle them. I certainly won't trust nor respect them. Girls with Marry-Sue complexes are dangerously deceitful and deceptively self centered. They deserve no kindness for the games they play. .

I took out your last part because it's irrelevent to the case you're making and I know that legal case quite well, thanks. Not quite as psychologically simple as you would put it either, although I have little sympathy for either perpetrator.

You *do* have a point with Leliana because I remember her saying at one point that she knew exactly how to manipulate men and I confronted her on that point. I also noted that without flirting at all {My MC was a gay elf on playthrough 2} she still fell in love and carried on even though I was absolutely clear that I was not interested. Alistair forced me to "dump" her on playthrough #1 because he thought she was in love. I was neutral on her.

I suspect those who find her "creepy" have a point--it's as if she simply chameleons to whatever fantasy she thinks you might have [which is funny enough because as a gay Dalish elf who only desired my own kind anyway--she would be about as far down the list as the broodmother]

Now Morrigan to me is the consummate sociopath. She has one agenda only. To get her GodBaby and by hook or by crook she's going to get it.

And you're right, in some conversations there are a lack of options of psychologically sound things that many MC's might say.

And I have to wonder here. Short of the MC the women in the party are a problem. Liliana is a love hound, Morrigan is a sociopath and Wynne is not a romance option.

On the other side we have Alistair who is a boy/man [at least he's not dangerous as are the two female romance characters] and Zevran who, male or female is the most mature romance character in the entire group.

I absolutely agree that Zev is a brilliantly written character.

The last part was merely meant as me explaining why I find this particular 'excuse' for a character so reprehensible.  It wasn't about making an argument in some formal debate, it was about expressing why I hate this character more than usual. 

Honestly, I think we agree on a lot of things.  I hope you didn't take my Leliana hate rant as being a bash against you for liking the character.  I realize I could come off that way.  I'm sorry if I did.

Morrigan... I think she is the product of her upbringing, truly, and she does show emotions at some points that seem authentic.  Her character does soften.  But then, there's a lot of scenarios with her I've not played through yet.  Why have I not seen a 'Justifying Morrigan' thread?  lol  I'm really hoping she will turn out to be capable of caring for others, truly.  I at least have to give her points for being honest with my character and not pretending to be sweet and inocent.  I feel like with Morrigan, I KNOW what I'm getting myself into, to some degree at least, much like with Zevran.  When she tells you about herself, she's verry streight forward about things that she knows might make you uncomfortable or even disguested, depending on who you are and your worldview.  Ultimately, she's very survivalistic.  Like a wild animal, her continued wellfare and freedom are more important to her than anything else... and I actually realy respect that. 

Granted my first character is my Dalish, and Morrigan's views on life are very natural.  Easy for someone who lives close to nature and knows what it is to be both a hunter and the hunted to sympathise with.  But on the other hand, who knows.  I heard there will be times when she says some pretty awfull things, but then, I've played out some of those scenarios and found that in context, she wasn't being monsterous... like at the mage's tower, when she said she didn't want to save people who give up their freedom.  Her view of the situation wasn't entirely fair, but it was highly understandable given her background and what is being asked of her.

Oh no, I didn't take it personally. I'm used to wild discussions/debates about characters from my writer's board;)

I thought the same as you until I played Morrigan out differently and gave her NO grimoires. Believe it or not you can still get her approval up over 90 without them. Yet she still tried to proposition me or have me proposition Loghain. Apparently, if you kick her out of the party she will still do it. My mage was older and wiser and refused to play ball with her, at all. I cut her short the second she tried to flirt.

I have to say I found that weird too. If Morrigan invites you to warm her blanket and even if you refuse--all of a sudden she goes all giggly. To be honest--I hated it. Somehow, as a seductruss I simply could not see her doing that 360 turn at all. I found it completely out of character. Leliana is giggly by nature. Morrigan giggling just ruined the character for me.

EDIT: I just realized after typing that why Morrigan goes giggling--she's mimicking Leliana because Leliana has more success seducing other party members! Now that is sociopathic:wizard:

That's when I realized that she was the only character in the party who is not there seeking redemption--she has a very clear agenda right from the start. Most sociopaths have the ability to mimic some moments of "kindly" behaviour particularly when confronted. Her moments of being "touched" are all about her--never is there a single moment of concern for another person with the possible exception of Sten who she sees with some sort of morbid curiousity.  And she's a sociopath raised by a sociopath and still partnered with a sociopath--an often deadly combination as you pointed out earlier.

As a rebellious city elf--I didn't care either way, simply because I pretty much loathed all humans equally. At least she was honestly nasty and funny. As a shy Dalish [and they obviously have a very moral and structured society where the group takes precedence over individualism] I found her lack of caring for the group absolutely appalling. Although as a Dalish I did understand her anger at the mages for letting themselves be locked up since as Dalish there we were wandering about with no creature comforts simply to insure our freedom from human domination.

As for Liliana my HN character fell for her. However he's young and on the road and your typical sort of HN guy. Romancing her is fine but he would never marry her--he's too class concious for that. She'd always be a mistress never a wife. In fact, he's the kind of guy who would eventually mature out of the relationship anyway. I wonder if she'd stalk him or stick a knife in his eye while he slept?

And when you all started talking about the "creep factor" because Leliana *always* falls in love--I realized it's true.

Modifié par Swifty, 11 mars 2010 - 03:53 .

[Sannox]

I tried again, and couldn't recreate the situation, so I think you must be right. I had been loading and saving a lot that night in camp, so I may have remembered wrong or maybe there was something wrong with the save. Morrigan ended up giving me her ring twice, so maybe the game 'forgot' where we'd got to at one point. Strange.

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

I tried again, and couldn't recreate the situation, so I think you must be right. I had been loading and saving a lot that night in camp, so I may have remembered wrong or maybe there was something wrong with the save. Morrigan ended up giving me her ring twice, so maybe the game 'forgot' where we'd got to at one point. Strange.

Sometimes they bug out.

Also, Zevran has a bad reputation (that sounds SO weird).  He really is just as faithful and loyal as any other romance partner, but so much is written that is untrue about his romance that when a glitch like yours happens, it just seems like, ok, yeh, that's what happens.  What most likely happened was that you were able to turn on the romance again, and his approval was low enough that he wasn't forcing a choice yet.

I'm just glad I don't have to write yet ANOTHER section for my FAQ!  It already is 3x as long as I expected it to be.  It's getting to the point where it's almost too long to be useful (I HOPE it's not to that point yet)!

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 mars 2010 - 04:01 .

[Addai]

Sabriana wrote...

I never spec'd any of mine as a BM, but I haven't played a mage yet, I guess I'm still not over my first (very silly) mage
I have to try it, everybody seems to like the spells, and I want to see for myself. I read somewhere that even the ranger's summoned 'pets' can supply the blood for the mage, so I have to make Zevran a ranger, just to see that one. I've never done that before, I somehow can't see him as a ranger. Maybe because when my PC and her gang hit the forest, he says: "A forest. I'm a city boy, I think forests are filthy." (paraphrased). Cracks me up. Every time.

Yes, that was a bit of good advice from ejoslin and served me well.  I don't know if this would work for you, but my 2nd best option was to drain Morrigan.  I figure she and my BM had a deal where she could do this, because Morrigan could immediately heal herself, whereas when in BM mode you cannot do so.  I imagine Morrigan cursing at it a bit, but having to acquiesce because she is such a fan of blood magic and practicality otherwise.    This also worked for us because my mage was DPS and Morrigan mostly buff, so my girl drew crazy aggro while Morrigan rarely got any.  I only had to do this on occasions when Zevran's ranger summon wasn't up yet or we'd lost it in an area transition.

The tricky part about Blood Wound was to make sure you got everyone (easy to do since it is a large field) and plan for what will happen when the spell runs out.  It rarely killed everyone if they were at full health (without hexes).  I usually followed up with a Virulent Walking Bomb, or only activated BW after a fireball had first taken down their health.

[Creature 1]

Addai67 wrote...
I don't know if this would work for you, but my 2nd best option was to drain Morrigan.  I figure she and my BM had a deal where she could do this, because Morrigan could immediately heal herself, whereas when in BM mode you cannot do so.  I imagine Morrigan cursing at it a bit, but having to acquiesce because she is such a fan of blood magic and practicality otherwise.   

What does she say about blood magic?

[Addai]

Re. Loghain: I can see I'm in the minority here and Swifty and I have already discussed this elsewhere, but I consider it a testimony to Gaider that I hate Loghain with a passion and would sooner romance Leliana. That is saying something.

Whereas Morrigan is a character, besides Zevran and Sten, who continually grows on me. She has an agenda, but it is not really hers, and I think she has a true progression of character growth in the game. Unlike our other mage "friend". Irving, now he is another interesting one. That Uldred note in his office is chilling. I never cooperated with him in my mage playthroughs, though. Jowan may be a tool, but he's your friend, and you're both prisoners. Irving, for all that he appears to try to be fair, is holding the jail key along with Greagoir. In a prison camp, the prisoner collaborators are the most dangerous and devious, not the guards.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 mars 2010 - 04:14 .

[Addai]

Creature 1 wrote...
What does she say about blood magic?

She's a fan.  She speaks up in support of Jowan's sacrifice ritual, for instance, and will try to get you to take Caladrius' offer.  In proposing the DR she says there is nothing to fear about blood magic.

I tried to work out how Zevran would feel about it.  He doesn't seem to have strong opinions on mages in general, though obviously he doesn't like the suggestion to sacrifice the elves!  I think he wouldn't be happy about my PC using it only because most of the time she is hurting herself to cast spells.

[Creature 1]

Blood magic is a big theme in my fanfic, which will at some point in the distant future be finished. . .

[Addai]

Zevran will come to appreciate my PC's blood magic when she uses it to help them do that "creating life" he told Shale would be fun to do.

[Creature 1]

I'm hoping my mage can figure out a way to keep from going crazy or dying. But it might mean some other people have to die.

[Swifty]

I think the brilliance was the characterizations. I'd like to see more options based on what psychologically is plausible, given the origin stories.



One could play a Dalish elf and have a completely different discussion with the other characters than if one played, say, an HN.



I did find that shy or reluctant GW characters didn't have much in the way of options to *grow* into leadership without losing a great many points. Not everyone who starts out leading from necessity has charisma or strong leadership qualities.



Also the gifting seems forced. I'd prefer a point system where the more fights you are in that your companions are *not* hurt--the more points of influence you get. After all, do you want to go into battle with someone who gives you gifts and flatters you or someone who keeps you alive and unharmed? Perhaps a point for every X amount of battles that the companion does not fall in battle. That would also make players aware that there are consequences for not taking care of one's companions in battle.

[Charsen]

Creature 1 wrote...

I'm hoping my mage can figure out a way to keep from going crazy or dying. But it might mean some other people have to die.

Aww, but that sounds too deliciously fun to avoid, Creature.

[ejoslin]

Swifty wrote...

I think the brilliance was the characterizations. I'd like to see more options based on what psychologically is plausible, given the origin stories.

One could play a Dalish elf and have a completely different discussion with the other characters than if one played, say, an HN.

I did find that shy or reluctant GW characters didn't have much in the way of options to *grow* into leadership without losing a great many points. Not everyone who starts out leading from necessity has charisma or strong leadership qualities.

Also the gifting seems forced. I'd prefer a point system where the more fights you are in that your companions are *not* hurt--the more points of influence you get. After all, do you want to go into battle with someone who gives you gifts and flatters you or someone who keeps you alive and unharmed? Perhaps a point for every X amount of battles that the companion does not fall in battle. That would also make players aware that there are consequences for not taking care of one's companions in battle.

I have to admit, the way Zevran's default tactics are set up certainly earns him approval points with ME (in case you change them before noticing, he's set up to protect the warden)!  But I also think a system set up that way would be overly cumbersome.  I don't mind the gifting, though.  

In all the Origins, though, with maybe the exception of the Dalish, the hero is presented as someone who stands out in their excellence.  The mage is the 1st Enchanters star apprentice, the CE mother was well known, and both Soris and Shiani may comment on what a hero (s)he always has been, the DN is an obvious leader, the DC's best friend crumbles without him/her and also another DC may comment on his/her strength, and the HN is very well known for their combat skills and is enough of a leader that they're left in charge of Highever over their mother.

[ejoslin]

Creature 1 wrote...

I'm hoping my mage can figure out a way to keep from going crazy or dying. But it might mean some other people have to die.

Well, you know it can be done.  You just have to continue someone else's research!

[Addai]

Creature 1 wrote...

I'm hoping my mage can figure out a way to keep from going crazy or dying. But it might mean some other people have to die.

??  Why would she do either?

I do think that Zevran keeps my Zev girls grounded.  I figure my blood mage was the most powerful mage in Ferelden by the time she was done, and without something to hold her to earth, she could end up being quite dangerous.  Her hatred of the Circle, for one thing, made her susceptible.  I took the Circle boon once but reloaded afterwards.  Talking to Irving made me sick.  He doesn't seem to care at all that the Circle has more freedom, and what is "more freedom," really, when it means the mages are controlled by the Circle rather than the templars?  It's almost worse.  So, blood mage concluded that she could not save all the mages, but she could take the terynir of Gwaren and at least ensure that she, Zevran and their children would be as secure as possible.

City elf... Zevran definitely saved her.  That is why I thought, yesterday when we were discussing what would happen if Awakenings has Zevran dead, that she would become a pretty messed-up figure.  It strikes me that the Alistair romance is much quieter, more focused on duty, while the Zevran romance is so much about literal life and death, from beginning to end.  It's probably why even though I like both, the Zevran romance is the one that gets me the most in the game.

[Sannox]

Swifty wrote...

Also the gifting seems forced. I'd prefer a point system where the more fights you are in that your companions are *not* hurt--the more points of influence you get. After all, do you want to go into battle with someone who gives you gifts and flatters you or someone who keeps you alive and unharmed? Perhaps a point for every X amount of battles that the companion does not fall in battle. That would also make players aware that there are consequences for not taking care of one's companions in battle.

I think I would get frustrated with that becaue I'd keep wanting to reload after battles if I'd let someone fall.  I agree about the gifting though.  I really didn't like it, and I found I was starting to resent the people that I had to 'buy' with gifts.   (And where were their gifts to me, eh?).  That's one of the things that drew me to Zevran - that he doesn't need gifts.  I'm not sure what would work for me.   Maybe more personal quests and more dialogue option, although I can see that something more directly related to fighting would be good.  I though the companions would approve of being picked to go out with you, but I don't think that happened.

[Sannox]

Addai67 wrote...

Zevran will come to appreciate my PC's blood magic when she uses it to help them do that "creating life" he told Shale would be fun to do.

I thought that conversation was even funnier as a male PC.  (Zevran reassuring Shale that we weren't going to get pregnant).

[ejoslin]

*grin* I think *squee* is the better word to use when describing that conversation with a FemWarden. Zevran saying he wouldn't mind if he got the Warden pregnant is just . . . well, *sigh*, yes *squee*!

Edit: I can't think of a better word.  My limited vocabulary is definitely showing!

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 mars 2010 - 04:52 .

[Jaulen]

ejoslin wrote...

*grin* I think *squee* is the better word to use when describing that conversation with a FemWarden. Zevran saying he wouldn't mind if he got the Warden pregnant is just . . . well, *sigh*, yes *squee*!

Edit: I can't think of a better word.  My limited vocabulary is definitely showing!

yes, great comment there from Zevran, hmm better word than *squee*....hmmm everything I'm coming up with sounds like it's from a 1980's movie

and THANK you ejoslin! I finally got some decent looking screenshots:

My DE Selva, going in to talk to Igancio for the last time, she ran past him and jumped on top of the chest, it kind of looked like she was looking into a security camera



Mad Alistair during the gossip speech. Calling Morrigan a ****** What do they teach Chantry boys these days??
Mad Alistair is kind of scary looking....



And Zevran, after the Talsien encounter as Selva turns down the earring first offer.

[Charsen]

Re: Shale, in the male version of the baby-making convo, he says:



"I doubt that would be a problem in <emp>this</emp> particular instance... but who knows? The act of creation is grand fun."



"is" instead of "can be" - i took that to mean that he was already a father. considering the Crows, actually, i would expect that to be true anyway.

[Jaulen]

Dang, sorry about those screen shot sizes.....

*is* instead of *can be* ? 
Hmm....Zevran with a kid eh? But then he talks about the *act* of creation...so....he's talking about sex? and not necissarilly actually having a kid.

Why did I think if it was Alistair saying that there would be legions of ticked off hardcore Ali Fangirls?

Modifié par Jaulen, 11 mars 2010 - 05:16 .