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[Creature 1]

ejoslin wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

I'm hoping my mage can figure out a way to keep from going crazy or dying. But it might mean some other people have to die.

Well, you know it can be done.  You just have to continue someone else's research!

I may have to buy that DLC for Science!  I haven't played it yet.

[jenovan]

Aww, your elf is really pretty, Jaulen!  (Great cap of angry!Zevran, too. XD)

Charsen wrote...

Re: Shale, in the male version of the baby-making convo, he says:

"I doubt that would be a problem in this particular instance... but who knows? The act of creation is grand fun."

"is" instead of "can be" - i took that to mean that he was already a father. considering the Crows, actually, i would expect that to be true anyway.

Huh, I never thought of that... but yes, given his track record, it's entirely possible he's had a few spawn over the years... I wonder what he would think of that, though.  It seems odd that he would treat that lightly (although in all likelihood, the mothers of said spawn would probably never let him near...)...

[Sannox]

Oh, I never thought that it meant he was a father. I thought he was just saying that he liked the act (sex).

[Jaulen]

Wouldn't the majority of potential mothers be dead though?

Okay, now I'm thinking, he never really tells much about his personal sex life, just that of his marks.

Edit: My thoughs exactly Sannox

Modifié par Jaulen, 11 mars 2010 - 05:27 .

[Addai]

I can't see Zevran thinking that creating a life with which he has no interaction and which probably has the sort of upbringing he had would be great fun. Not that it might not have happened anyway, given his history. It does present interesting possibilities down the road, if you should happen to meet a little Zevran someday.



Question for the panel: If the Crows keep coming after Zevran as they do in the US ending, does your PC go back to Antiva with him to take care of the problem? I just really want my PC to see Antiva sometime. Even if it means a few assassinations along the way.

[Minaleth]

Addai67 wrote...
Question for the panel: If the Crows keep coming after Zevran as they do in the US ending, does your PC go back to Antiva with him to take care of the problem? I just really want my PC to see Antiva sometime. Even if it means a few assassinations along the way.

Definitely, for my PC Antiva is must visit location ^^ I would love to have an epilogue where Warden and Zevran go directly there. Maybe even to take over the Crows. It would be nice option for power hungry PC that can't take crown of Ferelden for example.

[Addai]

I don't see my PC wanting anything to do with the Crows other than getting them off Zevran's back. But I do imagine sneaking in to Antiva for even a short visit. It would be risky, but Zevran is so homesick and it would give my PC a chance to see his home, even if she only saw it from the deck of Isabela's ship.

[Sannox]

Oh, I have a question. At one point, Zevran mentions that he's never taken his clothes off 'professionally'. But it's hinted that he was expected to use his sexuality on the job. Does he just mean that he hasn't been paid for sex work, even though it might have been part of the job? Or that he only did it if he wanted to? Or that he didn't do it and that the sex was just incidental?

[jenovan]

Sannox wrote...

Oh, I have a question. At one point, Zevran mentions that he's never taken his clothes off 'professionally'. But it's hinted that he was expected to use his sexuality on the job. Does he just mean that he hasn't been paid for sex work, even though it might have been part of the job? Or that he only did it if he wanted to? Or that he didn't do it and that the sex was just incidental?

I took that to mean he didn't get paid specifically for sex, yes -- he may have used sex to get his job done, but it wasn't THE job, so to speak.

I can imagine that whether to actually engage in sex with a target (or someone close to a target, like Isabela) was a decision left to the discretion of the individual Crow... but I would think the masters would take things into account when approving/assigning contracts like the target's tastes (if known) and whether they might fall for such charms...

[soulsweeper87]

Addai67 wrote...
Question for the panel: If the Crows keep coming after Zevran as they do in the US ending, does your PC go back to Antiva with him to take care of the problem? I just really want my PC to see Antiva sometime. Even if it means a few assassinations along the way.

Definitely, none of them would just let him go alone. Not unless they invent cell phones or the Internet in Thedas real soon, so they could check on Zevran every 5 minutes <imagines Zevran's stealth attempt failing horribly due to some annoying SMS sound>

[Sannox]

I wanted to go to Antiva too. But what to do about the Crows? Getting rid of them would be no good - Antiva would collapse or get invaded probably. Take them over and support buying child slave trading and child abuse? No thanks. Get the money and power to pay for protection? Maybe. I suppose it would be another of those ambiguous moral choices, with no satisfactory solution. But I would definitely want to go to Antiva with him, because he's homesick.

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

Oh, I have a question. At one point, Zevran mentions that he's never taken his clothes off 'professionally'. But it's hinted that he was expected to use his sexuality on the job. Does he just mean that he hasn't been paid for sex work, even though it might have been part of the job? Or that he only did it if he wanted to? Or that he didn't do it and that the sex was just incidental?

Yeh, the conversation is more to do with whether the Warden plans to peddle him off to rich noblewomen as a prostitute. I think his point was he never was a prostitute. And he more than hints, at least with a FemWarden, that he has sex as part of his job as an assassin. In fact, if you talk to Isabela, it's pretty clear he was having sex with her to get close to her husband to assassinate him.

Edit: Added some quotes.

Second edit: Finishing catching up I should have said, "Yeh. Agree with jenovan."  

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 mars 2010 - 05:58 .

[Creature 1]

Addai67 wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

I'm hoping my mage can figure out a way to keep from going crazy or dying. But it might mean some other people have to die.

??  Why would she do either?

The game depicts the Taint as both a horrible curse that will make you miserable until you die and as no big deal.  Making Alistair king makes it seem no big deal, because he can't be a proper king if he's feeling compelled to go kill darkspawn every few weeks. 

[Addai]

Creature 1 wrote...

The game depicts the Taint as both a horrible curse that will make you miserable until you die and as no big deal.  Making Alistair king makes it seem no big deal, because he can't be a proper king if he's feeling compelled to go kill darkspawn every few weeks. 

Ah, I see what you mean.  I don't think you go crazy until the end, though.  I mean, Riordan and Duncan are close to the end and though they are both single-minded, they're far from crazy.  But yes, they do tell you that the darkspawn will be drawn to you, so it does complicate a royal throne.  It would be something Zevran would have to deal with with a warden PC, too, as well as the other side effects of the taint, like the nightmares.  It's hinted that though many wardens learn to deal with them and block them out, those who go through the Joining during a Blight have greater side effects.  And eventually, Zevran will have to deal with the end coming, as well, though we've already discussed that here.

I was thinking about Sereda's fate...  especially horrible for her to be sealed up in the Deep Roads with the chance of her becoming a brood mother.  And to learn that her father...  (spoiler deleted)!  She's got to be another f'ed up PC, having been taught her whole life that if you are casteless, you're not a person and will just disappear when you die.  It's got to eat at her, even if she doesn't really believe it.  More things for her and Zevran to talk about.

[Cuddlezarro]

Mad Alistair during the gossip speech. Calling Morrigan a ****** What do they teach Chantry boys these days??

Mad Alistair is kind of scary looking....

[Charsen]

 

Sannox wrote...Oh, I never thought that it meant he was a father. I thought he was just saying that he liked the act (sex).

Well, sex isn't an act of creation in all cases ... not even if the intent was to create - but let me explain, because the male and female side of this conversation is definitely to blame for the confusion here:

With a femWarden he says: Creating a new life can be a great deal of fun.
With a maleWarden he says:  The act of creation is grand fun.

Replacing the whole creation stuff with a mundane example, say, cooking dinner... that now becomes:
With a femWarden he says: Cooking dinner can be a great deal of fun.
With a maleWarden he says:  Cooking dinner is grand fun.

With femWarden it still sounds like theory, that, if one were so inclined, cooking dinner would be pretty fun. But in the maleWarden one it implies that dinner was cooked and it was fun.

Could you say something is fun if you never actually did it? If you said... "Having sex with Wynne is grand fun." wouldn't people then assume you did it? I hope you all -100 disapprove of that example btw

I am just saying that, when talking about non-reproductive sex (sex for fun only ), it seems odd to say that it is an act of creation (act as an instance of)... what are you creating aside from lots of noise, a messy tent and more reasons for Wynne's disapproval?

besides, the Crows saw him as an investment, and if he was the top assassin, as he implies, it seems likely that they would encourage the continued bloodline 

I know, I know... arguing semantics here and that's like arguing about whether blue is a good color........ but I dunno, it just made sense that he had offspring for the Crows and that he was not a part of their lives but when i hear "an act of creation" that implicitly means that offspring was created, not attempted. I heard him talk to shale about it and thought, yeah, that makes sense that the Crows would have used him in such a way and i didn't really think about it again til now

I'm just saying that was my impression, whether he is a father already is a probably even unknown to him, tbh

[ejoslin]

I actually am very inclined to believe he has no children (that he knows of, at least) because of the way children are exploited in his world. I don't think it would be something he would make a glib comment over. "The act of creation" can just be a euphemism meaning sex. After all, you usually don't know for a couple of weeks whether life was created (or longer in those times), and trust me, by that time, it ceases to be fun!

The only reason I take the FemWarden version as him saying he wouldn't mind if he got her pregnant is because he says, "That is not such a terrible thought."

Edit: I do understand your point.  In the female version, really nothing indicates that he has children.  I can see how the male version may indicate that.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 mars 2010 - 06:16 .

[jenovan]

Whoa, so Zevran (and others) as Crow breeding stock? Now THAT'S cold!
That honestly never occurred to me before, but depending on your view of the Crows, I suppose that's not unreasonable.  Who would the mothers be, though?


As for the semantic argument...  "The act of creation is grand fun"...
Honestly, I took that as, "act of creation" = sex, and that's all.  I mean, sex that creates new life vs. sex that doesn't -- would you really know the difference while you were engaged in it? ;D

[Creature 1]

Charsen wrote...
besides, the Crows saw him as an investment, and if he was the top assassin, as he implies, it seems likely that they would encourage the continued bloodline 

I know, I know... arguing semantics here and that's like arguing about whether blue is a good color........ but I dunno, it just made sense that he had offspring for the Crows and that he was not a part of their lives but when i hear "an act of creation" that implicitly means that offspring was created, not attempted. I heard him talk to shale about it and thought, yeah, that makes sense that the Crows would have used him in such a way and i didn't really think about it again til now

I'm just saying that was my impression, whether he is a father already is a probably even unknown to him, tbh

I don't think so.  The Crows purchase most recruits.  If you're breeding animals, you know if you're trying to start a new breed you get really lousy results for generations because the initial genetic variability is too large.  Breeding animals requires line- and in-breeding to concentrate beneficial alleles and purge out detrimental ones.  Starting with a breeding pool of humans and elves chosen more or less at random and then filtered through an extended training period would produce results just as bad as going out and picking a new crop of random candidates and weeding that batch out as well. 

Plus there's the horrible attrition.  It's uneconomical to put a lot of time and resources into a breeding program when you're going to end up burning through perhaps a majority of the resulting offspring during training. 

Additionally, breeding requires a stud and a dam.  You could have male Crows in a breeding program without interfering with their work, but the females not so much!  You'd end up putting lots of resources into training female Crows and then having to take them off active duty for breeding purposes, pretty much ending their careers.  My thinking is that the Crows actually *discourage* breeding among the Crows, to the extent of forcing abortions on females who get pregnant (in my prequel fic this happened to Rinna before Zevran met her).  

[Jaulen]

*whoa!* Cuddle......why is Alistair in noble clothing? Did you put him in that?

And *shudder* I wouldn't want to be in a dark alley with an Alistair that had that expression on his face. He looks like he'd willingly and joyfully strangle someone.
EDIT: I do like his 'BRING IT ON!!!" hand though. nice touch animators!

Modifié par Jaulen, 11 mars 2010 - 06:24 .

[AndreaDraco]

jenovan wrote...
As for the semantic argument...  "The act of creation is grand fun"...
Honestly, I took that as, "act of creation" = sex, and that's all.  I mean, sex that creates new life vs. sex that doesn't -- would you really know the difference while you were engaged in it? ;D

I agree

[Cuddlezarro]

Jaulen wrote...

*whoa!* Cuddle......why is Alistair in noble clothing? Did you put him in that?

And *shudder* I wouldn't want to be in a dark alley with an Alistair that had that expression on his face. He looks like he'd willingly and joyfully strangle someone.
EDIT: I do like his 'BRING IT ON!!!" hand though. nice touch animators!

look about around 10 pages and you will see why hes in noble clothing

edit: it is exactly 10 pages the screenies are on 275

I also think he looks constipated in thats screenie

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 11 mars 2010 - 06:29 .

[Charsen]

Well, i don't think we know what the Crows usually do, we don't have enough info unless it's in the books or somewhere... we know that he was purchased from a brothel.. it is not unlikely that the brothel is also operated by the Crows or even used as a source of their purchases in this way - many gangs have their fingers in many pies, so to speak ....

the mother would more than likely be a non-Crow and that would still fulfill any genetic variability and avoid problems with female Crow work schedules

having said that, if he thinks he is turning my camp into his own private alienage, he's got another thing comin

Modifié par Charsen, 11 mars 2010 - 06:28 .

[Addai]

I think CZ has Alistair in his execution clothes. Or maybe his wandering drunk clothes.

[Cuddlezarro]

also I just found out something about Dialogue tweaks



when you make out with Zevran in public (ie not atcamp) it removes all party members from view so I cant get more screenies of Loghain watching his future son in law make out with another man in front of him unless im at camp