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[ejoslin]

Allerleihrau wrote...

Did Zevran love Rinna? There's no doubt that she was a very special person and changed him greatly etc., but there is this line that always makes me wonder: "She was... a marvel. Tough, smooth, wicked. Eyes that gleamed like justice. EverythingI thought I desired." So did he desire her or did he just think he desired her? Or was his initial thinking that he desired her the spark that was needed to letting her close enough that "she touched something within me".

I know that Zevran doesn't use the word "love", but this description of his feelings for Rinna seems a bit different to me, than a simple circumvention of the word "love".

I do NOT think that Zevran loved Rinna. I think he was infatuated with her, though.

Zevran, when declaring his feelings for the warden, very obviously had never felt the way he does for the warden towards anyone before.

Edit: I can add a lot more about this.  But I agree with you -- his wording does not sound like he was in love with her.  It's the whole story that caused him to crack, not just what he allowed to happen to Rinna.

Plus, if you can talk to Zevran about Taliesen, you find out that he does not hold him responsible.  If Rinna were truly his first love, you would think that Zevran would feel some animosity towards the man who set up and killed her. But he doesn't.  He doesn't blame Taliesen for it at all.

Adding more!  Oh, I have lots to say about this one. (sorry you asked yet?)

Second edit: What caused Zevran to crack was a combination of things. Probably the most important was realizing exactly what he meant to the crows -- absolutely nothing. Rinna's dying . . . he was very quick to not only let her be killed, but he spat on her as well.  Had she actually been the one to betray them, he would have felt NOTHING about killing her.  Then he learned that she was innocent -- and you know how Zevran feels about killing innocents.  And he WAS infatuated.  Then learning that not only was she nothing to the crows, HE was nothing as well.  He took such great pride in being a crow, yet if he died, they would not care at all.

Zevran actually had far deeper feelings for Taliesen than Rinna.  I believe as a lover, but I suppose maybe that's open to interpretation (though if you are able to ask Zevran about it, it's pretty clear, really, but most people don't get that dialog choice).  Taliesen came to save Zevran, at great risk to himself.  Taliesen actually had offered to help Zevran with the initial attack -- Zevran turned him down.  Since Zevran knew it was a suicide gesture, Taliesen must also have realized how dangerous it was to try and get Zevran back, especially since he knew Zevran had failed.  

With Rinna, also, Zevran was sure quick to side with Taliesen.  So you know who he actually trusted more.

Modifié par ejoslin, 12 mars 2010 - 02:47 .

[jenovan]

Welcome, Allerleihrau! XD  In fact, that is something that's come up at least once, but we enjoy discussing it anyway.  At least, some of us do, I'm sure. 

ejoslin wrote...

I do NOT think that Zevran loved Rinna. I think he was infatuated with her, though.

Zevran, when declaring his feelings for the warden, very obviously had never felt the way he does for the warden towards anyone before.

Short answer, I agree with this. ;D

I think maybe he *thought* he loved her, or, well, maybe he loved her in such a capacity as he was able to, in that environment, but it's nothing compared to what he feels for the romanced Warden.   It seems that he wasn't willing to stick his neck out and stand up for Rinna, let alone die for her... but they were both entangled in the Crows.  Maybe he could only really experience love at its fullest after leaving them.

[Charsen]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
Pfeh. Typical student. Free food = great, free drink = greater, free booze = greatest.

Exactly when does that change?

never, i hope! mm... free.. 

Welcome to the group Allerleihrau 

Btw guys. Just made a project for the Zevring, available to friends only right now (it's not close to being a finished project so you can wait for a few days if you would rather not friend me just for a mod!)  The current dialog files are up for the project and at the moment it only fixes the problem where he does not give you the ring after you refuse it and he boycots sexytime. I am actively working on it, so expect updates, but you are free to test it if you like. Instructions in the group.

Edit: i agree; i do not think Zev loved Rinna truly, however, i think she made him realize that love was potential, and that shock probably contributed to his actions.

Modifié par Charsen, 12 mars 2010 - 01:57 .

[Sresla]

Allerleihrau wrote...

Did Zevran love Rinna?

No, but he sure as hell loves me. :innocent:

[ejoslin]

I'm mad clicking and unable to get to the instructions! And we are friends. And I AM all set to test everything! Repeatedly, in fact. Ummm, not that I'm anxious or anything . . .

Edit: Wow, I cannot believe how excited I am over this!  I'm actually smiling and STILL clicking all over Charsen's profile.  *grin* 

Modifié par ejoslin, 12 mars 2010 - 02:01 .

[Sresla]

Charsen wrote...

Btw guys. Just made a project for the Zevring, available to friends only right now (it's not close to being a finished project so you can wait for a few days if you would rather not friend me just for a mod!)  The current dialog files are up for the project and at the moment it only fixes the problem where he does not give you the ring after you refuse it and he boycots sexytime. I am actively working on it, so expect updates, but you are free to test it if you like. Instructions in the group.

I can't access it either, but that's probably because of the flow chart issue of a few days ago, I think Charsen has me blocked...

For serious, though - I noticed you said it wasn't compatible with DT? Or is it more like - the future stuff I have planned won't be compatible immediately but I'm working on it, but the earring fix should work. I would like to test the earring fix on my horrible warrior who I have to bring out of retirement for Awakenings since I went and deleted Sandor's save files back to the origin like a month ago because I wanted to play him over and I'm going really slowly and...

[jenovan]

Hmm, with all of this earring squee going on...
What do you guys think the earring looks like?  The description in game (going by Charsen's screenie, lol..) says it's a "gold earring"... but in his story, doesn't he say it's a jeweled earring?  Of course it could be both, but yeah. ;D  What do you think it might be?

I'm still trying to decide... a simple hoop is certainly dashing and rogueish (hello Duncan!), but to me it sounded as if it's something a bit more extravagant. XD

(I keep thinking of the cover of The Lions of Al-Rassan... one of the main characters -- who could probably be equated to a bard in DA terms, except awesomer -- has a pearl earring he's famous for wearing. XD)

[Charsen]

hmmm... ok, try again, I am not sure why it isn't recognizing my friends, but i extended it to friends & my subnetwork, whatever that is. lol. It seems like the step just above public permissions though.



it's not currently compatible with DT but it is my goal to make this mod compatible with everything that conflicts, if it is at all within my ability to do so, especially DT. in fact, I am modifying my production cycle to release an as-is DT compatible script now =)

[e-ver]

Ok, I was posting an answer, but then I saw, that ejoslin is still adding information to her posting (thank you!), so part of my answer is now redundant and I'll adjust/delete other parts of it... so this will take some time.

I just wanted to say, that I'm really grateful for all the answers so far!

[ejoslin]

Charsen wrote...

hmmm... ok, try again, I am not sure why it isn't recognizing my friends, but i extended it to friends & my subnetwork, whatever that is. lol. It seems like the step just above public permissions though.

it's not currently compatible with DT but it is my goal to make this mod compatible with everything that conflicts, if it is at all within my ability to do so, especially DT. in fact, I am modifying my production cycle to release an as-is DT compatible script now =)

Oh, that is SO nice, having his earring in the inventory.  I am doing that with ALL my characters right now.  Then I'll remove it (the mod), but if I get to that point on my current character before you have the DT compatible version created, I'll just add it back.

Thank you so much for this.  It's fantastic having it. 

Edit: Oh, wow, all my saves are from just after Taliesen on this, and going through this dialog so many times . . . I wonder if it will ever get old.  OMG.  I'm completely squee right now.  Oh, and I'll post a screenie that a lot of people may not have seen.  In a second edit.  It's a good one, don't worry.  Wow.

Second edit:
I said that not long ago. Taliesen offered to come to the ambush with me and I said, "Taliesen, I don't need any help. This Grey Warden is a new recruit. How hard could it be?"


But then, if I had been more open-minded to his help, either you would be dead or I would be. So it was better I refused. Huh.

Modifié par ejoslin, 12 mars 2010 - 02:42 .

[Sabriana]

I'll do that too, thank you Charsen. But I got two files. What did I miss? One file has ~3 MB, the other ~20kb. Which is it? Or should I put both in the override?

[Charsen]

Yes Sabriana - for now just put them both in override

I am going to release a more polished .override and .dazip in just a bit, plus the DT compatibility, just doing some tests now



Wonderful screens Ejoslin =) It's good to see Zev looking content

[Sabriana]

Allerleihrau, the way we hashed this out is that Zevran felt something for Rinna that scared him. When he was told that he was nothing, that she was nothing, there was only emptiness in him, which drove him to the suicide attempt.

He never felt love, or affection, so it was a completely alien feeling that he could not identify when it started happening to him with the PC. He knows he trusts her, and he feels a (for him) scary feeling, and it makes him fight it.

That's why many of us believe that he falls in love right from the beginning, but fights it every step of the way, until he can no longer do so. He then surrenders, and from then on the PC becomes his everything.

[ejoslin]

Had to make them big. AND add captions. Because I am like that.

[Sannox]

@ Allerleihrau, I've come late to this thread, so I haven't discussed this yet either. I was just thinking about this very thing this morning. In one of the 'adventure' conversations, Zevran tells a story about being taken in by a mage that he's supposed to assasinate. It obviously wasn't love, but it must have been something, enough that he plans to go back to the Crows and plead her case. She dies accidentally and he finds out that she was tricking him.

So it seems as if he's a naturally loving, trusting sort of person, despite what he's been taught. However he learns from that experience, that it's dangerous to fall for someone and trust them.

When he meets Rinna, he's still living by that code. I think he was falling for her and that it would probably have progressed to love if she hadn't died, but when he hears she's betrayed them it fits with his earlier experience as well as what he's been taught by the Crows. That helps to explain why he would go along with killing her. Spitting in her face while she dies is horrible and unnecessary. I think it shows the depth of his feeling - he takes the betrayal personally.

[Herr Uhl]

ejoslin wrote...

Had to make them big. AND add captions. Because I am like that.

Damn kids and your wide-screen monitors.

[ejoslin]

Herr, does it mess up a regular monitor? I can make them smaller! I just hate doing so! But if it's screwing people up, I'll do it!

[Sabriana]

Oh how sweet, Charsen. You are a saint among men. If you bring out the compatible one, I might be able to use that instead. I can play in a little while, and I can't wait to see the earring bit.

Lol @ Ejoslin. Any excuse to put up a Zevran shot is a good excuse by default. When does that take place? After the Taliesen encounter when a romanced Zevran is below 71?

[Sannox]

ejoslin wrote...
  Oh, and I'll post a screenie that a lot of people may not have seen.  In a second edit.  It's a good one, don't worry.  Wow.

Second edit:
I said that not long ago. Taliesen offered to come to the ambush with me and I said, "Taliesen, I don't need any help. This Grey Warden is a new recruit. How hard could it be?"


But then, if I had been more open-minded to his help, either you would be dead or I would be. So it was better I refused. Huh.

Thank you for posting these.  I haven't seen that conversation yet.

Modifié par Sannox, 12 mars 2010 - 02:50 .

[ejoslin]

No, this is when he thanks the Warden for freeing him from the crows. After he says he wants to take responsibility for preventing the warden's untimely death. If you select the last choice, "I don't need any help," you get this one.  Really, all four of the dialog choices there are fantastic.

Modifié par ejoslin, 12 mars 2010 - 02:51 .

[AndreaDraco]

Wonderful screens ejoslin! I guess this is the conversation I'm striving to hear with my MHN character

[ejoslin]

AndreaDraco wrote...

Wonderful screens ejoslin! I guess this is the conversation I'm striving to hear with my MHN character

No, it's NOT.  It's a friendship dialog.  His explanation of his relationship with Taliesen is very different!

Edit: I should say, this one is available to both friend and lover, not just lover.

Second edit: But when you talk to him about Taliesen as a lover below 71+ adore, that ALSO is very worth hearing.  But not nearly as squee as this moment.

Modifié par ejoslin, 12 mars 2010 - 02:54 .

[barkingM1]

Charsen wrote...

the first rule of blight club is... you do not talk about blight club.

anyways, exam is submitted and i am finally free of midterms and projects. time for me to catch up on some sleep. night folks and happy zevranning =)

bwahahaha! "blight club" - brilliant!  That so needs to be on a T-shirt.

[KentGoldings]

But the instant, perpetual, and indiscriminate interest in bedding everyone seems a poor formula for making the main character feel valued.

I've heard the argument before.

In the FOX animated sitcom, we have the character of "Boomhuer." Boomhuer always seems to have a pretty woman on his arm.  In one episode, they reviel his secret.   He hits oin everything.  I guess you reap what you sow and if you want to have relationships with lots of woman, this is the only tactic that is going to work... other than becoming a rock star or something. 

Zev is just a character and they wanted to establish a broad character type without being subtle. Like the others, Zev is different from what he appears to be on the surface.

Zev is an over-sex, effeminate, shallow fop... wait there's more
Morrigan is cold and insulting ****....  wait there's more.
Liliania is a devout lay-sister of the Chantry... wait there's more.
Alister is a shy and unsophisicated young warden...  wait there's more.
Sten is an abusive, thoughtless murderer of inoocent farmers...wait there's more.
Shale is a walking staue with a distaste for poultry... wait there's more.
Wynne is a bossy  and judgemental old woman...wait there's more.
The Dog is a Dog... I guess that's all there is.
Ohgren is a stinky drunk... Wait there's more...he's a stinky drunk with a crush on a bar wench.

[barkingM1]

Sresla wrote...

Minaleth wrote...

And there is nothing interesting in locked chests anyway. The only exception are Zev's boots in Haven maybe, and items for 1 or 2 quests.

Fairly certain that the chest with the boots in Haven unlocks itself at some point or isn't locked to begin with.

 On the PS3 it's defintitely locked to begin with.  I've always snaffled the boots up right away, so no idea if it unlocks on its own.

You know, when Zev describes his skills, I've always just taken it as an overview of the rougue class in general.  [shrugs].