35177 réponses à ce sujet

[SweetiePea]

bobsmyuncle wrote...


I guess Oghren could be appealing if your idea of great sex is him throwing up and passing out on you.

Although I do have to say I am terribly disappointed that there was not the possibility of one single "mustache ride" joke to be made when he gets drunk in camp.

I don't think he'd be like that, though.  I don't know what the male ending is like, but I do know that if you play as a fem PC, are good friends with Oghren, and sacrifice yourself, his epilogue says that he sobers up and gets married.  I think Oghren is just rather messed up about the whole Branka affair and I think he's basically an idiot with women.  However, he is wonderfully loyal and has a good moral compass (he wants you to destroy the anvil, after all--even if you initially let Branka have it, he wants it done away with).

As for Alistair being boyish, well, I don't think that's something every woman finds unattractive.  I think it depends on what is meant by "boyish".  Yes, Alistair is sometimes immature, but he also has many of the qualities that I require in a "dream" man: he's funny, self-deprecating, loyal, and is very moral.  Yes, he'll leave if you take Loghain, but I don't consider that a hissy fit.  Instead, I see it as his standing up for his beliefs.  He has a line over which he will not cross, and doing something that he sees as pardoning (is he really that far off base there?) someone who has committed regicide and virtually wiped all Wardens from the face of Ferelden is not something by which he can abide.  I completely understand that.

I can see where Zev finally falling for your PC is special.  However, I think a lot of all this has to do with personal tastes.  The bad boy has never appealed to me, and promiscuity is also not appealing to me, so these are two big negatives against Zev.  I do think he's had a terrible, terrible life, and that's why my PC is interested in being friends with him.  She sees that he has some very redeeming qualities, but the fact that he's unapologetic about enjoying killing points to him being a sociopath.  I don't think that makes for very good boyfriend material.

[Rathany]

Alistair is a bit of a prude. Zev makes the same jokes about ropes and chains that my friends do. I like that Zev can joke about sex and is playful about it. When it comes to love he is very serious, and cannot handle it at first. I started playing the game with no idea who would be possible party members and 'romancables' and I just found him fascinating.



The guy who was all sure of himself going to peices over falling in love? That is adorable!



Though a girl IRL, I have been a guy on both play throughs. So, I have yet to have Alistair hitting on me. It's too bad that I cannot hit on Alistair. Yeah, he'd turn me down, but it would be fun to have the option.

[ejoslin]

MEUTRIERE wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

I guess it's appealing to win the heart of a cold blooded assassin who's never loved anyone in his entire life.

To me, it's this.  Personally, I prefer Alistair, but it's the feeling that to Zevran, the PC is more than just another fling.  He sees something there beyond sexytime, that he hasn't seen in another wo/man (unless you want to count Rinna, of course).  Just in my opinion. 

The PC is not Zevran's first love, though.  Because you DO count Rinna.  However, because of Rinna, Zevran wants to change.

Modifié par ejoslin, 30 décembre 2009 - 03:14 .

[Namirsolo]

ejoslin wrote...

ReubenLiew wrote...

Well we can only deduce 2 outcomes if he DOES start reading.
Either he keeps on being your husband out of fear, or stops breathing.

Third option . . . he hides my computer!  He doesn't scare easily!

My boyfriend told me I'm not allowed to play the game anymore. Of course,  he was only kidding and couldn't stop me if he wanted to, but... heh

[Skellimancer]

I can't believe people would let him live...

[ReubenLiew]

If a man can't put his trust to hired goons paid to kill you then who CAN a man trust?

[MorningBird]

ReubenLiew wrote...

If a man can't put his trust to hired goons paid to kill you then who CAN a man trust?

Chuck Norris?

Or Mr. Rogers.  You can always trust Mr. Rogers to win the day.

[Prolefeed]

I really started to like Zevran as a romance option when I heard about his childhood. I actually enjoyed his . . . Well, I don't think he's sleazy so much as he seems to be a bit of a, well, really, he pretty much tells you that whoring was part and parcel of working with the Crows. So he's a ****. He's easy and he's okay with that. So he talks and jokes about sex, and makes jibes at people who are less comfortable with sex than he is (which I actually do as well, so I totally get). I thought it was funny, and I found him an interesting guy to have around. Plus, he doesn't just make light of sex. He jokes about everything. Sometimes I get a "laugh to keep from crying" vibe. Like when you have the opportunity to either recruit him or kill him, and he's spouting witticisms the whole time. He's amazingly relaxed and calm, even in the most intense situations.

When he starts talking about his childhood, though, I really wanted to just cuddle him. Everything he says is awful, and he's so blase about it. He just accepts it as part of life . . . At one point he says he enjoys being an assassin because killing people gives him a feeling of control and power. Which is kind of creepy, yeah, but his whole life has been a cage, so it makes sense (and plus a few of my characters enjoy violence themselves, too). That part about his mother's gloves was so sad. Some games I don't put him in anything but Dalish armors head-to-toe the entire playthrough.

His character is so awesome once you start really talking to him, the only reason not to like him is an inability to get past his ****tiness. And seriously, the man was raised by ****s, then was forced into a profession where his body (including his sexuality) is regarded as a tool. What do you expect?

There are many worse things to be than a ****. The only love interest I don't want to touch with a ten-foot-pole is Morrigan. She's /cruel/. It's foul. I'm considering throwing her out of my Dalish elf's party at the moment. Zevran's moral compass may not point to true north, but at least he doesn't disapprove when you help people. And in conversations, he shows quite a bit of willingness to be a better person without the Crows lording over him.

Also, the armor he comes with looks like it may have been painted onto him. Which is always a plus.

Modifié par Prolefeed, 30 décembre 2009 - 04:22 .

[Namirsolo]

Skellimancer wrote...

I can't believe people would let him live...

Well, you're going to miss out on a party member in an rpg? It's an opportunity for more story and more combat options.

[ejoslin]

SweetiePea wrote...

I can see where Zev finally falling for your PC is special.  However, I think a lot of all this has to do with personal tastes.  The bad boy has never appealed to me, and promiscuity is also not appealing to me, so these are two big negatives against Zev.  I do think he's had a terrible, terrible life, and that's why my PC is interested in being friends with him.  She sees that he has some very redeeming qualities, but the fact that he's unapologetic about enjoying killing points to him being a sociopath.  I don't think that makes for very good boyfriend material.

Except he has deep regrets.  Not over being an assassin, but really, most of my PCs would agree with him saying some people need killing (Noble believes that about Howe, Dalish killed three humans knowing if she didn't they'd have big trouble later, city elf of course killed Vaughn and all his guards, Noble dwarf may have killed her brother depending on how you played it, Dwarf commoner was a thug).  Even Alistair would agree that some people just need killing.  In Ferelden, there's not the huge outrage at murder.  Heck, most mages ended up killed, either before they ended up in the tower or when they went through their harrowing.  There were a few instances where my PC committed outright murder and her party helped and no one blinked an eye.  And this is a party with Wynne and Alistair (for instance, when my PC killed the werewolves after they were cured and human again).

I look at the game world and try to see how people fit within that.  Of course, in my real world, I would run far and fast -- but this is a far different world.

Life is a bit cheap in DAO.  But Zevran has deep regrets because he knows he has killed innocents, and it torments him.  In some ways, I think that makes him more moral than Alistair, who was angry if you chose to not risk any more deaths in a village by sacrificing either the person who was responsible or following the laws of the land and killing the abomination.

Modifié par ejoslin, 30 décembre 2009 - 04:28 .

[SweetiePea]

Well, you have a good argument, ejoslin. But I see things a bit differently. Killing Howe is more a matter of capital punishment. You do have good arguments about the others, though, and I do agree that Alistair probably would agree that some people "need" killing (Loghain, anyone?).



Still, I think there's a huge difference between being an assassin and what Alistair and the PC are doing. Yes, Zev was forced into it, but I don't think that absolves him of his responsibility. It's always a slippery slope when you start talking about what's acceptable and what isn't when one is trying to preserve one's own person. To his credit, I don't think Zev uses this as an excuse. He does own up to who he is and what he's done. I just find it disturbing that he says he enjoys killing and that he then makes a flowery little speech about it.

[B33ker]

Namirsolo wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

I can't believe people would let him live...

Well, you're going to miss out on a party member in an rpg? It's an opportunity for more story and more combat options.

And some great party banter with the others......Butterface anyone? 

rapidshare.com/files/324561488/Butterface.mp3

He also knows how awesome you all are.

rapidshare.com/files/323733004/We_are_ridiculously_awesome.mp3 

[seramiran]

Romance, the heart-shaped candy boxes and flowers kind, has never held a great appeal for me. I was going to stay quiet because of that, because romance isn't my thing, but some of these answers are so interesting I wanted to join in.



Physically, Zevran is not that appealing. I hate elves actually. (yes: hate)



It's his character that gets me. The first time you meet him he is beaten and expects to die. So what does he do? Beg? Lie? Cower? Give up? Nope. He opts to tell the truth. One of the bravest things anyone ever does. Saying he's sleazy or cheap or lacks character because he likes sex is missing the point entirely: it is confusing the act with the intent and doesn't come near to considering character or integrity.



In some ways he's less guileless than any one, even the dog. He gave his word and will stick to it. (even if you don't rub his belly)



Staying power ... choosing something or someone and sticking to it is very appealing. More so than the typical romantic acts (which all seem to involve giving gifts .... which creeps me out frankly).



He has a pragmatic approach to life. That doesn't mean he lacks ethics. Not at all. I also do not find much romance in dying. Any fool can die. Living is harder.



So:

-- he may be the most honest character in the group

-- he's loyal

-- he's smart

-- he's funny

-- he has skills benefiting the group (make your own joke here)

-- for an elf, he's kinda cute

-- he has integrity



I find him quite appealing.

[TomBrokaw]

He betrayed me. I always slit his throat in every playthrough.

[Namirsolo]

TomBrokaw wrote...

He betrayed me. I always slit his throat in every playthrough.

He only betrays you if you never talk to him. Honestly, I don't see how one would expect someone who had a contract to kill you to not turn on you if you just ignore him your entire game. It doesn't take much effort to get him to not betray you.

[Brass_Buckles]

SweetiePea wrote...

bobsmyuncle wrote...


I guess Oghren could be appealing if your idea of great sex is him throwing up and passing out on you.

Although I do have to say I am terribly disappointed that there was not the possibility of one single "mustache ride" joke to be made when he gets drunk in camp.

I don't think he'd be like that, though.  I don't know what the male ending is like, but I do know that if you play as a fem PC, are good friends with Oghren, and sacrifice yourself, his epilogue says that he sobers up and gets married.  I think Oghren is just rather messed up about the whole Branka affair and I think he's basically an idiot with women.  However, he is wonderfully loyal and has a good moral compass (he wants you to destroy the anvil, after all--even if you initially let Branka have it, he wants it done away with).

As for Alistair being boyish, well, I don't think that's something every woman finds unattractive.  I think it depends on what is meant by "boyish".  Yes, Alistair is sometimes immature, but he also has many of the qualities that I require in a "dream" man: he's funny, self-deprecating, loyal, and is very moral.  Yes, he'll leave if you take Loghain, but I don't consider that a hissy fit.  Instead, I see it as his standing up for his beliefs.  He has a line over which he will not cross, and doing something that he sees as pardoning (is he really that far off base there?) someone who has committed regicide and virtually wiped all Wardens from the face of Ferelden is not something by which he can abide.  I completely understand that.

I can see where Zev finally falling for your PC is special.  However, I think a lot of all this has to do with personal tastes.  The bad boy has never appealed to me, and promiscuity is also not appealing to me, so these are two big negatives against Zev.  I do think he's had a terrible, terrible life, and that's why my PC is interested in being friends with him.  She sees that he has some very redeeming qualities, but the fact that he's unapologetic about enjoying killing points to him being a sociopath.  I don't think that makes for very good boyfriend material.

I just want to say that you've expressed my feelings on both characters pretty well (I am a female player, my avatar only indicates who I'm currently playing the game through as).  Of course, keep in mind that Alistair has plenty of flaws, and Zevran has quite a few good points, too (I just don't find him appealing in romance).

I've got a female character I'm working on a romance with Zevran with, but I still don't entirely see the appeal.   At least she's the sort of character who'd initially be okay with just a fling, but for the most part I feel like I have to metagame just to get a character to flirt with Zevran.  I'm with the OP:  He does come off as sleazy, as well as creepy.  And while some people claim he's very masculine, I still think his face is too "pretty" for a man.  The hair is not the problem.  I know there are some women who also love the idea of an experienced lover, but Zevran is far too experienced.

In Zevran's defense, he is more loyal than any other character to your PC if you should romance him (or even if you don't).  That, and the fact that he's somewhat amusing (if offensive) makes him a fun character to have around.  But to me, hot he isn't.  If he were a real-life person, with his flirt methods combined with his attitude about murder being okay, I'd be going to the cops and filing a restraining order, then asking if there were any chance of getting into the witness protection program.  As a game character, it's easier to deal with him (not to mention safer).

[Ulrik the Slayer]

TomBrokaw wrote...

He betrayed me. I always slit his throat in every playthrough.

He's an elf. I always slit his throat in every playthrough.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

I think Zevran is hilarious.

[Sabriana]

He never betrayed my PC, not even in the first play-through when my mage wooed Alistair. She talked to him, apparently flirted with him (I also picked the flirty answers thinking they were jokes), and had him at 'interested' in no time. I believe it was around the 37-40 range. He not only didn't betray my PC, he fought for her.

What made me play again and pick him was the ending of my first game. My mage was crushed and heart-broken by Alistair, when lo and behold, Zevran stepped up to pick up the pieces. He showed more loyalty and more care for her than Alistair ever could.

On subsequent play-throughs he was the chosen one, and boy does he grow on you. Alistair may complain about his harsh life, but Zevran has him topped several times over. Sold at age 7 to be molded into an assassin by hook and by crook. He regrets a lot of things he has done, and he says so if the PC takes the time to get to know him.

His behavior with the guardian of the ashes was touching. He was clearly afraid of the spirit, and his regret quite evident. And yes, it's easy to bed him, but he keeps trying to deny that he is falling hard for the PC. Mainly because he feels more for her than for Rinna, and is scared about it. He says that the way he was brought up and taught that what he feels is very wrong, but yet, he can't help it.

When he tells the PC about his Dalish background he says "My mother died giving birth to me, my first victim, so to speak." His facial expression while saying that is heartbreaking.

With him my PC knows when he's deflecting, joking around, and being honest. It's just in the way he comes across to her.

[Maria13]

Some odd thoughts...



Anyone notice that in the stories he tells Zev's marks often seem to die by mistake? Perhaps he is less an accomplished assassin than a good talker...



Zev's mother died giving birth to him, so did Alister's... A to Z.



And being a female adventurer in Ferelden seems much less dangerous than staying at home and giving birth.

[Sabriana]

Maria13 wrote...

<snip>

And being a female adventurer in Ferelden seems much less dangerous than staying at home and giving birth.

Lol, apparently. Darkspawn, bandits, beasts, and undead are easier to survive than birthing a child.

Zevran doesn't seem too sure who his father is/was. I wonder if there's DLC coming from that direction. Ahh, but I dream. Would be nice though. The more Zevran, the better.

[Default137]

Mainly how he acts, how he responds, that sort of things.



Get to know him a bit, he starts out fairly sleazy, but you find out for the most part, thats due to how he was raised/grew up/childhood traumas, if you actually pay attention, yeah he will flirt with other people, but you can tell he is trying to figure out how to express his feelings for you, and you can tell that he means those, and just doesn't know how to get it out.



Girls are not like guys, yeah, we may take a quick glance at what a guy looks like, but what we mainly look for is what a guy is like inside, its why alot of girls like Alistar, he's like a puppy inside, however, if it was real life, most of them would never date a guy like Alistar, because he's totally incapable of making choices for himself, and would be very irresponsible.



Zevran on the other hand starts out a sleaze, but if you get past that and see who he is inside, he's a very emotionally broken individual, but he can handle himself, and the way he approaches life is very refreshing ( not the sex bit, or the fidelity bit, but the laidbackness ), and I dunno, I kind of want to try and help him, or fix him, if that makes any sense to you.

[Phex]

The thing I like the most about Zevran's character is his laid-back attitude and endless optimism. He's a cold blooded assassin yet he somehow manages to make it all sound so cheery. I like that sort of humour.



As for his sex partners, well. I admit that in real life I'd be wary of someone who has been with everyone for the obvious reasons, but there's nothing like being upfront about your feelings and expectations with somebody before getting seriously involved with them if you feel that their amount of partners would bother you. (You can go through this discussion with Zevran as well and he's being rather no-frills honest about it.) I stopped looking for a real life Alistair when I got out of my teens because there is no such thing. Whether the man I'm with has been with 10 or 50 partners makes little difference then, though it may be a rather pleasant experience for myself if nothing else. Just don't jump into experiences with people you do not trust and remember the swimming suits and it's all dandy.



Bear in mind Zevran leads a life that is drastically different from anything you would ever encounter in your real life. If I knew every day could be my last, that my job would allow no such things as a steady relationship with somebody and there was no company "image" to uphold (other than making sure the right people die)... Yes, I believe I could see myself "taking my pleasures where they can be found" as well. I couldn't see a better way to unwind, myself.

[ejoslin]

SweetiePea wrote...

Well, you have a good argument, ejoslin. But I see things a bit differently. Killing Howe is more a matter of capital punishment. You do have good arguments about the others, though, and I do agree that Alistair probably would agree that some people "need" killing (Loghain, anyone?).

Still, I think there's a huge difference between being an assassin and what Alistair and the PC are doing. Yes, Zev was forced into it, but I don't think that absolves him of his responsibility. It's always a slippery slope when you start talking about what's acceptable and what isn't when one is trying to preserve one's own person. To his credit, I don't think Zev uses this as an excuse. He does own up to who he is and what he's done. I just find it disturbing that he says he enjoys killing and that he then makes a flowery little speech about it.

Actually, I think Howe is the BEST argument for the "some people just need killing."  Call it what you will, but obviously in some cases, even hiring an assassin would just bring someone to justice who wouldn't be brought to it in any other way.  Zevran says he consoles himself with that fact -- that most of the people he kills really do have it coming.  Like Howe.

And yes, a lot of what he says is disturbing.  But again, putting it in a world where life is actually very cheap, it's not quite as disturbing.  I think his character may be a bit too smart and wily -- a lot of the talks he gives the PC, it's like he's trying to show her just how horrible a person he is.

[Sabriana]

@ Sefferz

I agree on that point. People tend to overlook the kind of life Zevran was forced into since the age of 7. He mentions it himself that he was raised to know nothing but murder. A child is easily corrupted, and can be broken for life if treated the way he was. Yet he managed to survive by looking at it from a different angle, by accepting his fate to a degree, and by closing off the real Zevran completely.

He is not broken beyond repair, but it takes a lot of patience to help him heal, and to make him realize that you can't outjoke or outrun true feelings when they come.

To hear that it confused and scared him to the point of refusing the PC's overtures was heartwarming, as was his statement in Denerim before the final battle. It goes someting like "With you by my side I would storm the Black City itself. Do not doubt it."

I guess it was that statement above all else that poisoned my PC's to the point where they can't help but romance him in every play-through. My various girls tried other ways, but he manages to pull them in (no pun intended) each and every time.