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[jenovan]

*grins* I'm kinda glad I've first met Alistair as a male PC, I can not hate him so much the first time through. 

Addai67 wrote...
Oh, and going back to the confrontation with Taliesin, I made sure to have Morrigan and Alistair in my party. They are the two who express the most suspicion of Zevran's motives. I just imagine my character giving them a meaningful look of "I told you so" when Zevran chooses to defend her rather than turn on her and go back to the Crows.

Oh, that's a fantastic idea. XD  I was particularly surprised by Morrigan's disapproval when I first accepted Zevran, yeesh.



Hmm, kind of OT, except that I'd like my PC and Zevran to have a happy ending.. ;D   But some of you are playthrough experts!
*spoilery ending question*

Is it possible to spare Loghain, have unhardened Alistair (yeah, my PC is too nice  ) be king, and make Loghain sacrifice himself? 

Modifié par jenovan, 14 janvier 2010 - 04:59 .

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

I actually did a Wynne revenge this play through.  Not only did she insult my PC's lover and call her a child, she tried to turn my mage in as a malificar at the mage tower after rescuing and saving everyone; had it not been for Irving telling her to shut up about Gray Warden magic, I would have been sunk as Gregoir already hated my mage for helping her best friend escape being tranquilized! But Wynne lost her head in a disagreement over, of all things, a waste bin!

That means Ali lives. I just arranged for his marriage to Anora, and Arl Eamon was most surprised as Ali still apparently looks at my mage like she's the only woman in the world. Poor Ali. But he'll get a good, long life with a beautiful queen (whom he doesn't like) so it's not so bad for him. Though . . . the landsmeet has not met yet . . . Loghain IS a war hero and quite a good addition to anyone's party . . . Decisions, decisions.

I can't get over how quickly I can get through these games now.

Edit: Tongue firmly in cheek here . . . 

Oh lordy, that's funny. Keep 'em coming Ejoslin, I'm living vicariously through you. I am such a slow player, I go on my nerves sometimes. It's just that I keep finding new things, and opening new dialogues depending on my choices.

Ah, Sten. He's one of my favorites. I had Zevran, Morrigan, and Sten with me in the ruins, and all three comments made me laugh. But Sten's was definitely the one I found the funniest.

I have to wait a while and do a new play-through to get the blood mage spec. I always thought it would kill Connor, but apparently it doesn't. As long as Isolde bites the dust, I'm fine. I might come a-running to you when the time comes and pester you a little more about the blood mage thing.

I also never had the heart to pour the blood into the 'waste-bin'. It somehow feels wrong, but I do want to do it at least once. I believe that unlocks the reaver spec?

Lol, poor Wynne. My PC was plenty mad at her for sticking her nose into things that are none of her business. But Wynne redeems herself in my PC's eyes later on when Zevran hits 'love'. I know she more or less says that about all the romance interests, but when she gets that look on her face, saying "His demeanor changes when he is with you. His expression is tender when he looks at you..." I forgive her the past transgression. That's not verbatim, but as close as I can remember it.

[Addai]

I don't begrudge Wynne her nosy dialogue. She warns you ahead of time that she's going to be a vocal advisor and my characters generally respect that, except I do think my Dalish character took extra exception, being rather proud and independent. She does say something about Zevran getting a tender look in his eye, and you have the option of telling her that you saw it from the beginning, which for my character is absolutely true. This is the first playthrough where my character told Alistair "we're taking him because I say so." She looked at Zevran and just knew. *happy sigh*

[Sabriana]

Lol. What did Alistair have to relpy to that line, Addai? I mean, he's one who doesn't take it well if he doesn't get his way.

[Creature 1]

Addai67 wrote...
This is the first playthrough where my character told Alistair "we're taking him because I say so."

I like telling Alistair that just so he'll flip out.  I think I'll tell him every time!

Of course on this playthrough I've been tweaking his nose in conversation and killed Isolde, so he's stuck at neutral approval and we're halfway through the game.  I need his personal quest so I can harden him, then he's free to sulk for the rest of the game.  

[Creature 1]

Sabriana wrote...

Lol. What did Alistair have to relpy to that line, Addai? I mean, he's one who doesn't take it well if he doesn't get his way.

He says something like, "Excuse me, I guess I'm just a peon in your command structure!" and loses ~5 approval IIRC. 

[Addai]

Don't recall exactly but I did get a negative hit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you always get a negative with Alistair for taking Zevran, no? I like Alistair and generally try to keep him happy, but tough luck, pal.

[Sabriana]

Creature 1 wrote...
He says something like, "Excuse me, I guess I'm just a peon in your command structure!" and loses ~5 approval IIRC. 

Oh, I can't wait for my new play-through. I have to remember doing that. It's so much fun to rile him up, I enjoy it immensely.

I will never forget the bug I ran into, trying to be as sarcastic as I could be to Alistair. After allowing Isolde to sacrifice herself and make up a bit for the havoc she wrought on village and castle, we return to camp. Alistair immediately approaches my PC, demanding to talk about the actions at Redcliffe.

My PC wants to be sarcastic and rile him up, so she says "I think that went rather well." I expected to witness yet another tantrum, instead she gets a big 'thank you, etc' speech and +7 approval. That was rather funny. 


@ Addai

My PC always gets a negative hit when going against Alistair's wishes, believes, whathaveyou. I was so mad in the Redcliffe basement, it's not even funny (well, it is now, come to think of it, but at the time I was quite shocked).

Anyway, my mage talks back and forth with Jowan, whom she likes, and whom she tried to help at the tower. He wishes to make up for what he messed up, and of course, Leliana and Morrigan have something to say. Both want Jowan to get a chance of redemption.

Alistair, of course, being more templar than Grey Warden, as usual, is against it, but says "It's your friend, you know him best." My mage agrees and sees this as him leaving it all up to her and being fine with any decision. I mean, he just said so, didn't he?

So she let's Jowan out, gets + approval from Leliana and Morrigan, and shockingly, a -5 from Alistair. What the heck? Didn't he just agree to let her judge? Why didn't he let on that he was so strongly against it? What the heck is wrong with that boy?

What a difference of Zevran's heartfelt pleading for the mages lives in the tower. I had to re-load, because there is no option to be swayed by Zevran's plea (and boy was my PC swayed), and going through with it means killing Wynne. That's something I can't do. She reminds me too much of my grandmother

Modifié par Sabriana, 14 janvier 2010 - 05:48 .

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

*grin* just don't back off too much  I love the way you tell this, though.

Oh no.  *sly grin*  I just want my character to have a sweet surprise when she comes back from the alienage feeling about as low as she can possibly be short of failing in her duty as a Grey Warden.  Realizing that her gamble at giving herself up for Vaughan's murder failed utterly and so many paid the price, especially the children of the alienage whom she had hoped she would inspire.

*Edit, one other nice touch is that I have her using Howe's axe to wreak vengeance on the slavers.  It's the little things!  Oh, and going back to Fort Drakon... Zevran's line "My dear Grey Warden, did you miss me?"  God, so perfect.

Hahaha, yes, that is so perfect there.  I love the little touches in the game.

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

*grins* I'm kinda glad I've first met Alistair as a male PC, I can not hate him so much the first time through. 

Addai67 wrote...
Oh, and going back to the confrontation with Taliesin, I made sure to have Morrigan and Alistair in my party. They are the two who express the most suspicion of Zevran's motives. I just imagine my character giving them a meaningful look of "I told you so" when Zevran chooses to defend her rather than turn on her and go back to the Crows.

Oh, that's a fantastic idea. XD  I was particularly surprised by Morrigan's disapproval when I first accepted Zevran, yeesh.



Hmm, kind of OT, except that I'd like my PC and Zevran to have a happy ending.. ;D   But some of you are playthrough experts!
*spoilery ending question*

Is it possible to spare Loghain, have unhardened Alistair (yeah, my PC is too nice  ) be king, and make Loghain sacrifice himself? 

No.  Ali has to be hardened.  I just spared Loghain, and Ali is barely talking to my pc, but to give him credit, after the tantrum, he did wish us luck!

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

I don't begrudge Wynne her nosy dialogue. She warns you ahead of time that she's going to be a vocal advisor and my characters generally respect that, except I do think my Dalish character took extra exception, being rather proud and independent. She does say something about Zevran getting a tender look in his eye, and you have the option of telling her that you saw it from the beginning, which for my character is absolutely true. This is the first playthrough where my character told Alistair "we're taking him because I say so." She looked at Zevran and just knew. *happy sigh*

She's allowed to be nosy, and she does redeem herself.  However, this game I'm playing a blood mage, and she seriously attemtped to turn in my PC to Irving and Gregoir.  Irving told her that gray wardens have access to magic that the circle mages don't and to mind her own business.  Then Wynne still asked to join.  And my malificar cannot let  something like that stand!  The fact that she told my PC that she's too childish to be in an intimate relationship and that it's not fitting to be involved with someone like Zevran just is a bit of an addition there!

Edit: Heh, unfortunately, I don't get the "when he looks at you, there's a tenderness I've never seen until now" speech because her betrayal happens before the landsmeet.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 janvier 2010 - 05:46 .

[AnniLau]

ejoslin wrote...

The fact that she told my PC that she's too childish to be in an intimate relationship and that it's not fitting to be involved with someone like Zevran just is a bit of an addition there!

Is it odd that I'm sort of looking forward to this? I always go "Oooo, griffons!" every time the option comes up in the GW story she tells because her exasperation ("It's like talking to a child!") makes me laugh.

[Addai]

Wow, that raises my opinion of Irving a lot. I am plotting an elf mage as my next character and I don't think I could go for a blood mage character, but you all have put the bug in my ear that Isolde might have to go. Ejoslin, I think you said at one point you knew an interesting route to go there with a mage PC? Could you PM it to me?

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

Don't recall exactly but I did get a negative hit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you always get a negative with Alistair for taking Zevran, no? I like Alistair and generally try to keep him happy, but tough luck, pal.

You can avoid the negative hit, just send Zevran after Loghain and after he refuses, ask him if he wants to live.  However, is Ali disapproval that big a deal?  Towards the end you get so many gifts for him if it's important to you for other reasons to have it high.  

Ali: They'll expect an heir you know.  Two gray wardens . . . it may be impossible for us to have an heir . . .
PC: Not YOUR heir, at least.
Ali: Should I be glad to hear that? Yes, I guess I should (disapprove -5)
PC: Hey, I found this statue in the dragon poop back in andestre's temple
Ali: OOOOOOH!  Thanks (approve +5)

Elissa is made queen, yet again!

He's too easy.

[Sialater]

Take the disapproval hit, it's tiny and why does Al need to agree with everything you do?

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

Wow, that raises my opinion of Irving a lot. I am plotting an elf mage as my next character and I don't think I could go for a blood mage character, but you all have put the bug in my ear that Isolde might have to go. Ejoslin, I think you said at one point you knew an interesting route to go there with a mage PC? Could you PM it to me?

Sending now . . . You may know this already though.  Too big a spoiler to but in a love Zevran thread, though.

[Sabriana]

Yeah. Just give him his action figures to play with, and he's a happy camper.

[Addai]

Sialater wrote...

Take the disapproval hit, it's tiny and why does Al need to agree with everything you do?

Exactly, with Shale as well where you get a small hit.  He wants to leave decisions to you except when he doesn't.  Well, them's the breaks.  Anyway, there are plenty of ways to raise Alistair's approval.

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...

jenovan wrote...
Hmm, kind of OT, except that I'd like my PC and Zevran to have a happy ending.. ;D   But some of you are playthrough experts!
*spoilery ending question*

Is it possible to spare Loghain, have unhardened Alistair (yeah, my PC is too nice  ) be king, and make Loghain sacrifice himself? 

No.  Ali has to be hardened.  I just spared Loghain, and Ali is barely talking to my pc, but to give him credit, after the tantrum, he did wish us luck!

Ahhh, rats. ;D   My PC considers Ali a good friend (... so far  ), but he also tries to spare lives when he can.  (Then again, he didn't have much of a problem letting Isolde take the fall...)  I suppose it'll come down to the feel of things when I get to that point. XD  Thanks!

[jenovan]

Sialater wrote...

Take the disapproval hit, it's tiny and why does Al need to agree with everything you do?

lol, seriously.  I took the disapproval about Isolde, but then gave him back his locket and he was all "I love you man!" and telling me about his sister.   Guess he wasn't mourning too much. ;P

[Sabriana]

The thing is, Jenovan, if you don't harden Alistair and let Loghain live, Alistair becomes a drunken bum. So hardening him is by far the kinder thing to do if you want to spare Loghain.

[jenovan]

Sabriana, yeah, I wasn't sure if it was possible at all to *not* harden Alistair, spare Loghain and not leave Ali to that fate But the "hardening" dialogue is way too harsh, it was horribly out of character for my PC. I suppose Loghain is going to have to kick the bucket this time around

[Sialater]

Just imagine that's not word-for-word what you say.

[Sabriana]

jenovan wrote...

Sabriana, yeah, I wasn't sure if it was possible at all to *not* harden Alistair, spare Loghain and not leave Ali to that fate But the "hardening" dialogue is way too harsh, it was horribly out of character for my PC. I suppose Loghain is going to have to kick the bucket this time around

I agree, it's a bit abrupt and I also find it a strange response. But I simply put it into my HN perspective. She just had almost all of her family massacred because Howe was after more power. Every single ally she was seeking out wanted something from her in return before honoring a treaty. She was quite jaded by that time, and simply thought that everyone was taking advantage of her, because everyone was out for themselves.

Or, as Sialater says, just imagine you say it to him in a much kinder way. I wonder if that can be changed through the toolset. You know, just type a different kind of response. It wouldn't include any scripting or a vo because it's a PC line.

[Sialater]

I usually imagine, "Sweetie, really, you haven't learned by now, that we're the exception to the rule? Everyone's out for themselves, always."



However, y'all are convincing me to give Zevran a greater shot in my next playthrough. I tried this time around, but my PC got a bit jealous from all his flirting with the girl party members.