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[soulsweeper87]

Ramante wrote...

Very nice, very nice indeed. (I love Shale)
What armor is the person on the left wearing? I don't recognize it.

It's also a mod, Grey Warden Runic Armor. I feel a little bit like a cheat for using these mod items, especially as they appear authomatically in your inventory, but they look so nice!

[Sabriana]

Yeah it is nice. Zevran wears it all the time in my games. That's why I wanted to create ancient elven armor with felon's coat stats. The shadow armor has those. I have the file that makes my PC having to buy it though (from Bodahn)

The armor on the left looks like the 'rune armor', which is also a mod. But I'm not 100% sure. It's also nice armor, and I've been thinking about getting it.

by Soulsweeper

Modifié par Sabriana, 14 mars 2010 - 11:56 .

[Ramante]

soulsweeper87 wrote...

Ramante wrote...

Very nice, very nice indeed. (I love Shale)
What armor is the person on the left wearing? I don't recognize it.

It's also a mod, Grey Warden Runic Armor. I feel a little bit like a cheat for using these mod items, especially as they appear authomatically in your inventory, but they look so nice!

The stats are very nice for a AW...
I might download it, so I can give the ancient elven armor to Zevran. o.o

@Sabriana, nice try.

Edit: *going to play rtO to get some nice new screenies*

Modifié par Ramante, 14 mars 2010 - 12:02 .

[kingthrall]

i take pleasure in plunging my sword into zevrans chest. I refuse to even talk to him his voice and being and elf (regardless of sexual background which a - anyway for me) is enough to make my blood boil.

[Creature 1]

Sresla wrote...
I look at this from the point of the Master assassins. How do you think that one gets promoted to a Master, in the first place? (man, this takes me back to like... Robert Aspirin's (RIP) Thieves World novels, not a direct parallel but close. Maybe I'm thinking of another series, because they're all thieves, not assassins in that, but Zevran does sort of remind me of a mix of Cappen Verra and Shadowspawn) You would, of course, have to kill your way up the ladder (which Zevran does actually do, in the Warden sacrifice/love interest epilogue, and I could have sworn that happens in the Thieves World books, but it's been too long since I've read them). So, for Master assassins, you would always need to be watching out for the next up and comer who might think one day to take your place. What better way to get rid of him than by breaking his spirit and then allowing him to go on a mission that might lead to his death.

I actually disagree with this.  I think the Masters are chosen by the higher-ups, and killing a Master would usually just lead to that Crow getting killed.  The skill set for the assassins is different from that needed by administrators.  If they just promoted whoever successfully killed the person above them, they'd end up with an organization run by people who are good at sneaking into houses and stabbing people, but not so good at managing people, planning more elaborate jobs, or negotiating with other masters.  

I think if Zevran or Taliesin had been management material, they would have been promoted already (getting kind of old).  Yes, Zevran doesn't seem to have much ambition, in the sense that he's content to follow the Warden and has no problem accepting their leadership (although I'm sure if he thought they were incompetent at first meeting and didn't change his mind this might go differently).  The sense I get from Zevran is that he'd rather not be bothered with having to manage other people. 

Of course he does undertake a hostile takeover if the Warden dies, but this is an unusual circumstance since he killed multiple Crows that came after him.  So perhaps you can get promoted in the Crows by assassinating the higher-ups, but you have to keep from dying when upper management retaliates, and convince them they're better off just tolerating the disruption in the ranks. 

[soulsweeper87]

Runic Armor looks cute on dwarfs

[Creature 1]

soulsweeper87 wrote...

Runic Armor looks cute on dwarfs

Zevran looks cute on dwarves. 

[soulsweeper87]

Creature 1 wrote...

soulsweeper87 wrote...

Runic Armor looks cute on dwarfs

Zevran looks cute on dwarves. 

I approve +100

[Ramante]

Damn, I feel like crying now. x.x

Mods used in DAO don't get transferred to Awakening.. so my new mage... her hair... :'(



Runic Armor looks very nice and since I'm downloading new mods, I might as well take that black armor. xD

[soulsweeper87]

Ramante wrote...

Damn, I feel like crying now. x.x
Mods used in DAO don't get transferred to Awakening.. so my new mage... her hair... :'(

What, even the hair and colors? Maybe authors of those mod will release versions for Awakenings, at this point almost all my characters use custom hair and colors >.<

[Ramante]

soulsweeper87 wrote...

Ramante wrote...

Damn, I feel like crying now. x.x
Mods used in DAO don't get transferred to Awakening.. so my new mage... her hair... :'(

What, even the hair and colors? Maybe authors of those mod will release versions for Awakenings, at this point almost all my characters use custom hair and colors >.<

Some people already have the game and started a thread with some game mechanic information. And they said one of the dev's had said that mods don't get transferred. I assume the hair and stuff don't get transferred since it are mods. A part of me thinks the hair still gets transferred since it doesn't change any game stuff but only appearance... but I feel kinda stupid playing my mage now that she might not be able to get transferred.
Does this make sense? o.o'

Edit:
If I have used fan modifications or custom content, will my character still work in Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening?
If you've user mods or custom content, there is a chance that it will not work with Awakening. We expect it will work similarly to Neverwinter Nights where some mods are unaffected by the expansion, and others are. We advise players to use un-modded characters to import.

Modifié par Ramante, 14 mars 2010 - 12:22 .

[Sabriana]

If we are talking about the same thread, Ramante, a poster who has the game stated that hair, skin-tone, and eyecolor do transfer over. They are even available in the CharCreator. I'll go look, and see if I can find that particular posting.

Edited so I can agree with Creature. Zevran looks good on many things, indeed.

Modifié par Sabriana, 14 mars 2010 - 12:23 .

[Ramante]

Sabriana wrote...

If we are talking about the same thread, Ramante, a poster who has the game stated that hair, skin-tone, and eyecolor do transfer over. They are even available in the CharCreator. I'll go look, and see if I can find that particular posting.

I edited my post.

If you are right, you've made my day.

[soulsweeper87]

Ramante wrote...

soulsweeper87 wrote...

Ramante wrote...

Damn, I feel like crying now. x.x
Mods used in DAO don't get transferred to Awakening.. so my new mage... her hair... :'(

What, even the hair and colors? Maybe authors of those mod will release versions for Awakenings, at this point almost all my characters use custom hair and colors >.<

Some people already have the game and started a thread with some game mechanic information. And they said one of the dev's had said that mods don't get transferred. I assume the hair and stuff don't get transferred since it are mods. A part of me thinks the hair still gets transferred since it doesn't change any game stuff but only appearance... but I feel kinda stupid playing my mage now that she might not be able to get transferred.
Does this make sense? o.o'

I'll look up the post for you.

I wasn't following Awakening threads recently in fear of spoilers, so my info may be outddated, but I'm pretty sure items fromk official DLCs don't get transferred. I hope this doesn't apply to appearance-changing unofficial mods as well, that would suck a lot! We'll have to wait and see, I suppose :/ It's only 2/5 more days.

Edit: Phew, Sabriana, thanks for info!

Modifié par soulsweeper87, 14 mars 2010 - 12:24 .

[Sabriana]

Here's the snippet:

Posted by Greenface21

So far most aesthetic mods work on awakening. I've used hair mods, eye colors, white teeth and some face presets. These mods also work on the new character creation screen if you dont import. The mods that actually effect game mechanics like archery, spells etc.. wont work.

Oddly all my modded equipment was brought over (minus official DLC stuff) which i wasnt expecting...

I'm glad I could brighten up your days, ladies. Makes me smile

[Count Viceroy]

I hadn't seen any confirmation of that, so I'll just jump in here and say that's awesome! Runic armor in awakening.



I'm going again, carry on with your fangirlism. Though I must admit this thread is disturbingly large.

[Sresla]

Creature 1 wrote...

I actually disagree with this.  I think the Masters are chosen by the higher-ups, and killing a Master would usually just lead to that Crow getting killed.  The skill set for the assassins is different from that needed by administrators.  If they just promoted whoever successfully killed the person above them, they'd end up with an organization run by people who are good at sneaking into houses and stabbing people, but not so good at managing people, planning more elaborate jobs, or negotiating with other masters.

Not arguing with you, but who do you consider the "higher-ups"? The merchant princes who use their services? The crime lords? Now, the crime lords, I can maybe understand, but merchants, I don't think they'd really be in a position about who was or wasn't good at their job. I guess it has to do with how you view the Antivan hierarchy, I just never really picture there being anyone else above the Masters, except maybe some sort of council they all might sit on, to decide on jobs. But if one Master is replaced by a new face, the person sitting there through the hostile takeover was (or should be) smart enough to have made it past whatever safeguards/defenses that said Master had and so earned their "place". I think that the quest line 'Trial of the Crows' is appropriately named. For the Crows, EVERYTHING is a test. You pass one, there's going to be another waiting for you. It all comes down to whether or not you're good enough to survive them all.

As I said, I think this also has a lot to do with ambition, something which Zevran admits he's really sort of lacking. He didn't really aspire to be more than he was, but that certainly could change over time.

[Abyss Vixen]

New mods will be made by the original creators simply because they also will hate the original hair styles . I myself havnt used a hair mod yet but i definetly will when a new one comes out however i am fairly contented with the current hair style just a shame lenliana looks the same -.-.



And on topic the romantic appeal of zevran is the same as why all bald men seem to always pull the good looking ladys. Plain badass.

[Creature 1]

Sresla wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

I actually disagree with this.  I think the Masters are chosen by the higher-ups, and killing a Master would usually just lead to that Crow getting killed.  The skill set for the assassins is different from that needed by administrators.  If they just promoted whoever successfully killed the person above them, they'd end up with an organization run by people who are good at sneaking into houses and stabbing people, but not so good at managing people, planning more elaborate jobs, or negotiating with other masters.

Not arguing with you, but who do you consider the "higher-ups"? The merchant princes who use their services? The crime lords? Now, the crime lords, I can maybe understand, but merchants, I don't think they'd really be in a position about who was or wasn't good at their job. I guess it has to do with how you view the Antivan hierarchy, I just never really picture there being anyone else above the Masters, except maybe some sort of council they all might sit on, to decide on jobs. But if one Master is replaced by a new face, the person sitting there through the hostile takeover was (or should be) smart enough to have made it past whatever safeguards/defenses that said Master had and so earned their "place". I think that the quest line 'Trial of the Crows' is appropriately named. For the Crows, EVERYTHING is a test. You pass one, there's going to be another waiting for you. It all comes down to whether or not you're good enough to survive them all.

As I said, I think this also has a lot to do with ambition, something which Zevran admits he's really sort of lacking. He didn't really aspire to be more than he was, but that certainly could change over time.

I guess I think of it more as Murder, Inc.  In my mind they have an industrial complex dedicated to turning out new Crows, that requires coordination in planning acquisition and treatment of them.  They are spread out over all of Antiva, I think that would take coordination as well.  I haven't really though about how exactly they're organized, but I'd think that all of the Masters in a city (or perhaps a region, in less populated areas) would be organized into a local council with one leader, but that one probably also reporting to another level of management above him, and those possibly directly under the leader of the whole organization (or under yet another layer!)  Crow Masters like Ignacio IMO are small fry.  I think the local council would appoint new Masters if needed.  Perhaps you could off your Master and replace him, but you'd have to make nice with the other masters first so they didn't set all of the cells in the city to take you out. 

[ejoslin]

Welcome welcome Meianderz!  No clue on the Dalish.  I think he was old enough where he could move around, and was there a short enough time he wasn't missed.  But that's something you just don't get information about, so it's how you want to see it.

Sannox, Zevran does say that he thought he was the best Crow in Antiva.  He was the only bid -- doesn't he say that going against grey wardens is impolitic?  But I don't see that as being mutually exclusive with being one of the best.  But what IS interesting and kind of confirms (like it needs confirmation I suppose) that Zevran engaging you in straight out combat was a suicide attempt -- that dialog pretty much says they do ambushes.  The bid I imagine the Crows would pay him his percentage, not the other way around.

Addai67, it's probably been answered (I need to catch up still) but it sounds like you're at Neutral still or warm.  You have to be at 26+ (interested) to be able to go to the tent (you don't get the option at either lower or friendzone) and 51+ (Care) to get the kiss option in Dialog Tweaks.

Ok, finishing catching up now.  Sorry if I'm repeating other people!

[ejoslin]

Sresla wrote...

Maybe this isn't the standard belief (not the first time I go against the general concensus) but I actually think Zevran was, in Antiva, one of the best assassins they had (his attempt on the Warden nonwithstanding). There's a reason, after all, that the Master who sent him, Rinna and Taliesin on that mission and Zevran said it himself, that they were growing tired of his boasting. Zevran was good, he KNEW he was good and he had an ego (bravado, if you like, simply because it was more likely a barrier than anything), he just hadn't reached the point of being good and AMBITIOUS. What was done to him was so they could teach him a lesson and put him in his place (which it did, it reduced whatever self worth he had gained up until that point to 0 or even negative numbers). Better still, it sent him on a suicide mission, getting him out of the way once and for all.

I look at this from the point of the Master assassins. How do you think that one gets promoted to a Master, in the first place? (man, this takes me back to like... Robert Aspirin's (RIP) Thieves World novels, not a direct parallel but close. Maybe I'm thinking of another series, because they're all thieves, not assassins in that, but Zevran does sort of remind me of a mix of Cappen Verra and Shadowspawn) You would, of course, have to kill your way up the ladder (which Zevran does actually do, in the Warden sacrifice/love interest epilogue, and I could have sworn that happens in the Thieves World books, but it's been too long since I've read them). So, for Master assassins, you would always need to be watching out for the next up and comer who might think one day to take your place. What better way to get rid of him than by breaking his spirit and then allowing him to go on a mission that might lead to his death.

If anything, you might argue that Taliesin's only motivation might not be romance in bringing him back. Every Master likely has a second. If Taliesin considers himself the current brains of the operation, having someone like Zevran at your side is a powerful move in terms of serving your own ends as well.

Edit: Too, imagine if it hadn't broken him - I know we talk a lot about Zevran's... for lack of a better word, sensitive side, but I think he's also got a stone cold killer side to him, when the right buttons are pushed (and I think still can be, post-epilogue, I don't believe he would allow anyone to get away with anything regarding the Warden - and vice versa, if our conversation a week ago [with the whole, what if someone killed Zevran, what would you do conversation]). It was a gamble that the Master(s) had to take, sooner rather than later. Live too long as a Crow and it would have desensitized him completely, making him that much more deadly.

This, this, this, and this.

Why do you think this goes against?  *grin* It's completely spot on.  Like if Anora betrays the Warden and gets her imprisoned, I have no doubt in my mind at ALL that he is not just trying to scare Anora when he says he is looking for a reason not to slit her throat and toss her in the river -- had they not been able to get the Warden out, that would have been exactly what would have happened to her.  But she could have a nice, nervous life looking over her shoulder until he finally got to her.

He never stops being an assassin.  He's not a warm, fuzzy type of man.  

Edit: After all, his engagement gift (or promise gift, if you don't get the proposal attached to it) is the earring from his first target when with the crows.  And yes, he becomes far worse if the Warden dies, especially if romanced.  Loving the warden can redeem him, but it never changes him, it just redirects him.

I still think Zevran and Taliesen were equals, but even that's debatable and unimportant. He and Taliesen were lovers, but also, as you say, having Zevran on his team WOULD make him look far better.

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 mars 2010 - 01:26 .

[Ramante]

I love Zevran in Ostagar:
That is a sexy sword, I must have it.

Modifié par Ramante, 14 mars 2010 - 01:18 .

[Sannox]

@ ejoslin, yes, I still think he's meant to be good. But what Alistair says definitely puts it in question - he seems so sure that Zevran wasn't their 'best', and although he might be scoring points, I think he may also be genuinely puzzled, and curious. So in Alistair's eyes, Zevran has to be mediocre enough that Alistair is sure there was an agenda behind deliberately sending a lesser assassin. Alistair isn't talking about the first meeting with Zevran, I don't think. He says something like 'I've watched you in combat' as if he means that he's been watching while they've been fighting together. (For me, these conversations came quite late in the game, when Alistair and Zevran had fought together a lot. If they came straight after meeting Zevran, then I'd have to look at it differently. It was also long after Zevran had explained that he took the contract to die).

I got the impression from the first conversation (on meeting him) that the Crows took the money directly, and the assassins received very little - the Crows set them up with a good enough standard of living, but they didn't have a lot of independent money. But during the conversation with Alistair, Zevran seems to say the assassins themselves bid for contracts, and get them according to how much of a cut they take (and ability), which is a different sort of market to the one I imagined. Maybe that only applied to contracts outside of Antiva (which were a rarity).

I went back to my dwarf commoner game to have a look at the dwarf kiss you mention. I waited for him to offer, but it's still quite quick - I took him straight back to camp after meeting him, talked to him (without being particularly careful about answers) and gave him two gifts (a gold bar and a random one), I think. His approval goes up so quickly that he will offer the first night. It's a lovely kiss. I'd like to see how it works with the other races, and it's good to know that you don't have to wait forever for it. I didn't keep going to see if he would then go straight for the Rinna conversation, as it seemed rather a lot for one night. I don't know if I like doing all the talking at the camp either. With my dwarf rogue, I was on my way to Denerim when I picked him up, and I took him round with me on my stealing things, then into the bedrooms at the tavern to chat (not too subtle with the hints) so I remember hearing the stories of his adventures there. And I got the Rinna story when we were out as well, and he was blood-splattered, which seemed appropriate.

Modifié par Sannox, 14 mars 2010 - 01:51 .

[Creature 1]

Sannox wrote...
I got the impression from the first conversation (on meeting him) that the Crows took the money directly, and the assassins received very little - the Crows set them up with a good enough standard of living, but they didn't have a lot of independent money. But during the conversation with Alistair, Zevran seems to say the assassins themselves bid for contracts, and get them according to how much of a cut they take (and ability), which is a different sort of market to the one I imagined. Maybe that only applied to contracts outside of Antiva (which were a rarity).

I get the impression that they were kind of making it up as they went along. 

[ejoslin]

@Sannox Yes, his approval DOES raise silly fast. It's sad, actually, how quickly it raises when he's romanced. It's one of my favorite things about the romance, actually. Just how much the warden means to him, and so quickly.



The other race's kisses are not nearly as nice as that dwarf kiss there, but they're still nice. Just like the FemDwarf sexytime is the only one where he's smiling, and he's smiling just about the entire time. It's funny how nice they made the dwarf scenes, actually. He will talk about Rinna as soon as you hit 71+ adore. It's not a triggered conversation, you DO have to ask him.



I got that impression as well, that the crows took the money, and then paid the assassin what was agreed upon after it was done.



I do think he was a good assassin, one of the best. Alistair and Zevran snipe at each other a bit, but Zev does point out that he does not go for straight out fights -- he uses ambush and poisons to kill. Him engaging the warden in a straight out fight shows he further was expecting to lose.



Those banters can happen any time, though. It just depends when you get them. I think only the romance banters are based on approval level.