35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Bootsykk]

QUESTION:



In the epilogue, is there a way to have a happier ending with Zevran? if so, tell me how, because every time my PC is forced to stay in court (lord knows why) and Zevran ends up blowing that popsicle joint. I've heard there's an option where you can run off to live on a boat with Sten and Zevran, and those two being my favorite characters I would love to find out how to get that in my epilogue

[ejoslin]

Juneya wrote...

QUESTION:

In the epilogue, is there a way to have a happier ending with Zevran? if so, tell me how, because every time my PC is forced to stay in court (lord knows why) and Zevran ends up blowing that popsicle joint. I've heard there's an option where you can run off to live on a boat with Sten and Zevran, and those two being my favorite characters I would love to find out how to get that in my epilogue

Hahahaha, no, you can't live on a boat with those two (there needs to be that option, I'd take it too), but you can rebuild the gray wardens with Zevran -- best ending there is.  Sten may invite you to go home with him, but even though my PC has accepted, it never shows up on an epilogue card.

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 janvier 2010 - 04:44 .

[Bootsykk]

ejoslin wrote...

Juneya wrote...

QUESTION:

In the epilogue, is there a way to have a happier ending with Zevran? if so, tell me how, because every time my PC is forced to stay in court (lord knows why) and Zevran ends up blowing that popsicle joint. I've heard there's an option where you can run off to live on a boat with Sten and Zevran, and those two being my favorite characters I would love to find out how to get that in my epilogue

Hahahaha, no, you can't live on a boat with those two (there needs to be that option, I'd take it too), but you can rebuild the gray wardens with Zevran -- best ending there is.  Sten may invite you to go home with him, but even though my PC has accepted, it never shows up on an epilogue card.

Ohhh... I'd like that  do you remember the dialogue sequence to get this option?

[ejoslin]

Juneya wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Juneya wrote...

QUESTION:

In the epilogue, is there a way to have a happier ending with Zevran? if so, tell me how, because every time my PC is forced to stay in court (lord knows why) and Zevran ends up blowing that popsicle joint. I've heard there's an option where you can run off to live on a boat with Sten and Zevran, and those two being my favorite characters I would love to find out how to get that in my epilogue

Hahahaha, no, you can't live on a boat with those two (there needs to be that option, I'd take it too), but you can rebuild the gray wardens with Zevran -- best ending there is.  Sten may invite you to go home with him, but even though my PC has accepted, it never shows up on an epilogue card.

Ohhh... I'd like that  do you remember the dialogue sequence to get this option?

At the end, just choose that you're going to rebuild the gray wardens and then when you talk to Zevran you have a few choices which are pretty obvious.  You can rebuild the gray wardens even if you are chancellor or queen.

[Sabriana]

Am I the only one who reads the "....for a time" as meaning that both, the GW PC and Zevran stay for a time and then leave? Together.



Ejoslin, about the Blood Mage spec. I want to not harm the child. Does being able to save him have something to do with a certain specialization? If it's too spoilerish to answer, could you PM me?

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Am I the only one who reads the "....for a time" as meaning that both, the GW PC and Zevran stay for a time and then leave? Together.

Ejoslin, about the Blood Mage spec. I want to not harm the child. Does being able to save him have something to do with a certain specialization? If it's too spoilerish to answer, could you PM me?

PM sent

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Am I the only one who reads the "....for a time" as meaning that both, the GW PC and Zevran stay for a time and then leave? Together.

Ejoslin, about the Blood Mage spec. I want to not harm the child. Does being able to save him have something to do with a certain specialization? If it's too spoilerish to answer, could you PM me?

I've always read it that way because those times I choose to stay in Denerim, my character only stays there "for a time," as well.  I just don't see any of my PCs and Zevran breaking up.  And I'm with everyone else who says if Awakenings means that Zevran and the PC break up, I'll just play an Orlesean GW.

[Sabriana]

I'm glad to hear I'm not alone in thinking that way. And indeed, if importing my PC means kicking Zevran to the curb, I'll be an Orlesian Warden as well. My PCs will not reward his loyalty, love and devotion with telling him to take a hike.

[ejoslin]

MAJOR ENDING SPOILER AHEAD.  Don't read if you don't want to know the final epilogue card of Zevran if you sacrifice yourself while romancing.  You have been warned!

My last playthrough I bit the bullet and refused to do Morrigan's ritual (making my mage the healer for the final assault -- ick). Due to the magic of reload and dialog tweaks, I did the sacrifice myself (then reloaded so that wouldn't be on my save file). Here is what Zevran's dialog card says:

Zevran lingered in Denerim for a time, mourning the loss of his love and working for the Fereldan throne as a distraction. Eventually the Crows came after him once again, and he elected to take the fight to their doorstep, returning to Antiva. After four master assassins disappeared, the Crows readmitted Zevran -- as their leader. He maintained a distance from his former comrades even then, and despite frequent offers of new bedmates, never loved again.

I cannot read this as he had many sexual partners -- he had lots of offers, none he took.

Yeh, I cannot see the PC and Zevran breaking up. I can't see him leaving her at all. Once he fell, he was faithful until the end.  

Edit: His face during the funeral.  Wow.  it's better if Anora is solo queen as you get a closeup, but you can see him enough even with Alistair giving the euology.

Second edit: The kiss at the end when Alistair sacrifices himself is interesting as Zevran is very much in the camera view, watching them with actually quite a nice look on his face..  

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 janvier 2010 - 01:21 .

[Sabriana]

I agree. It would be another matter entirely if the sentence read: "despite the frequent use/taking of new bedmates, never loved again.

Edit: Yes, his facial expression during the funeral actually made me reload. I couldn't stand him hurting so deeply over the death of my PC.

Modifié par Sabriana, 15 janvier 2010 - 01:19 .

[Creature 1]

ejoslin wrote...
Zevran lingered in Denerim for a time, mourning the loss of his love and working for the Fereldan throne as a distraction. Eventually the Crows came after him once again, and he elected to take the fight to their doorstep, returning to Antiva. After four master assassins disappeared, the Crows readmitted Zevran -- as their leader. He maintained a distance from his former comrades even then, and despite frequent offers of new bedmates, never loved again.

The lifetime celibacy isn't as bad as the return to the Crows, IMO.  I'm really starting to not like them very much. 

[Sabriana]

Well, from my western, modern society point of view, they are a despicable bunch, especially their habit of buying children and turning them into murderers through all manners of abuse. I dislike them very much, and would like nothing better then see them slip into obscurity and see their members hunted down and punished.



However, as far as Antiva goes, they are an accepted part of society, sanctioned (and used) by the governing bodies, and bound up tightly in the crown.



In Zevran's case, the slave has become the master, I just hope that he turned some practices on their collective ears. But we're never told that, of course.

[Auridesion]

Antikristine wrote...

Auridesion wrote...
(Blah my post.)

As frostajulie, I completely disagree with you, but for different reasons than frostajulie.

...

So I think you're wrong when you blame Zevran's appeal on his bad boy attitude. He's not a real bad boy, and those who initially are attracted to his sleazy behaviour, will realize he's not that kind of guy.

No 'bad boy' is truly a bad guy.  I swear I don't mean to sound condescending in the slightest when I say this, but anytime a woman says, "he's not really a bad guy" then he falls into the bad-boy stereotype category for that reason alone.  You have to get to know him to find out that he's not such a heartless sleazeball, and whether or not is was a mask or an act, that he seemed the bad-boy was probably part of what initially attracted you to him.   

[ejoslin]

Creature 1 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Zevran lingered in Denerim for a time, mourning the loss of his love and working for the Fereldan throne as a distraction. Eventually the Crows came after him once again, and he elected to take the fight to their doorstep, returning to Antiva. After four master assassins disappeared, the Crows readmitted Zevran -- as their leader. He maintained a distance from his former comrades even then, and despite frequent offers of new bedmates, never loved again.

The lifetime celibacy isn't as bad as the return to the Crows, IMO.  I'm really starting to not like them very much. 

Everything that was good about Zevran died along with the PC.  He ended up closing his heart for good.  I think both are completely tragic.  He lost his capacity for compassion and for pleasure -- the two things that really defined him.  But I bet in awakenings the gray wardens have a powerful ally in Antivia, the basic ruler of the land.

Edit: I hope as well that he in fact made some changes, but then they would fall apart, and Zevran, if nothing else, is practical to the end.  In the friend ending (no screenshot so I don't remember the exact wording), the only real difference is instead of the part about never loving again, it says "even he couldn't tell you if it [being leader of the crows] was a good or a bad thing."

It's the most heartbreaking ending.  Just his face at the funeral   Alistair, even with his, "I thought we'd be together forever," cannot compare to that look.  Ugh ugh ugh!  LOL!  I have to remind myself, he's PIXELS!

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 janvier 2010 - 01:43 .

[Sabriana]

@ Auridesion



It doesn't take long at all to find out that Zevran is definitely not a 'bad boy'. He doesn't even offer any kind of sexual contact until he had the chance to get to know the PC better. What made it clear to me is the fact that Zevran wants the fronts cleared up and get some kind of assurance from the PC before he even considers bedding the PC.

What attracted my PC to him were a lot of things, but she never thought of him as a bad boy. Bad boys are the Bishops of the gaming world. The Zevrans are bent but not broken, despite the horrible treatment they receive from early childhood on.

[Jayelet]

What it be added to the conversation Zevran?





Is to create a module that can add to the game and thus broaden the conversation

[Creature 1]

Sabriana wrote...
In Zevran's case, the slave has become the master, I just hope that he turned some practices on their collective ears. But we're never told that, of course.

They specialize in inducing Stockholm syndrome in the Crows.  In Zevran's case, he was so converted that he collaborated with them in killing the best part of himself.  From my point of view Taliesin's death was what really freed Zevran, or opened the door for him to free himself.  If he then goes back to the Crows, it seems to me that after losing the PC he gave up that liberty for the same prison he originally was in.  Whether he was a leader or assassin doesn't really matter, being a Crow at all is the cage.  If he did go back I doubt he changed things, to me it looks like a capitulation.  What other route could the Crows take?  Their method of buying large numbers of candidates for cheap and putting them through fire to see which can be refined into Crows apparently works.  Institutions don't like change, I doubt they'd stand for any changes to their basic procedures no matter who the leader was. 

[Creature 1]

ejoslin wrote...
It's the most heartbreaking ending. 

Yes, Alistair definitely either gets to father a demon child or feed himself to the archdemon every time. 

ARGH, TOO DEPRESSING!  Must have tea before depressing things first thing in the morning. 

[ejoslin]

Auridesion wrote...

Antikristine wrote...

Auridesion wrote...
(Blah my post.)

As frostajulie, I completely disagree with you, but for different reasons than frostajulie.

...

So I think you're wrong when you blame Zevran's appeal on his bad boy attitude. He's not a real bad boy, and those who initially are attracted to his sleazy behaviour, will realize he's not that kind of guy.

No 'bad boy' is truly a bad guy.  I swear I don't mean to sound condescending in the slightest when I say this, but anytime a woman says, "he's not really a bad guy" then he falls into the bad-boy stereotype category for that reason alone.  You have to get to know him to find out that he's not such a heartless sleazeball, and whether or not is was a mask or an act, that he seemed the bad-boy was probably part of what initially attracted you to him.   

It takes all of two conversations to realize that you have a very intelligent and honorable person there, not a sleazeball.  Zevran's first impression struck me as a survivor, not as a bad boy.  Just because you saw him one way doesn't mean everyone sees him that same way.  Now, it's possible that is what YOU find attractive, but you cannot extrapolate that onto all of his fangirls.

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 janvier 2010 - 01:49 .

[Sabriana]

Creature 1 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
In Zevran's case, the slave has become the master, I just hope that he turned some practices on their collective ears. But we're never told that, of course.

They specialize in inducing Stockholm syndrome in the Crows.  In Zevran's case, he was so converted that he collaborated with them in killing the best part of himself.  From my point of view Taliesin's death was what really freed Zevran, or opened the door for him to free himself.  If he then goes back to the Crows, it seems to me that after losing the PC he gave up that liberty for the same prison he originally was in.  Whether he was a leader or assassin doesn't really matter, being a Crow at all is the cage.  If he did go back I doubt he changed things, to me it looks like a capitulation.  What other route could the Crows take?  Their method of buying large numbers of candidates for cheap and putting them through fire to see which can be refined into Crows apparently works.  Institutions don't like change, I doubt they'd stand for any changes to their basic procedures no matter who the leader was. 

You (and not you personally, of course) don't even have to induce any kind of syndrome in a child, a child is easily broken and re-shaped. But you are right, it's far better to think that he lost all his reasons for opening up and letting the light in, so to speak. Did he see it as a return to his prison? I don't think he does, but for him it's the best place to hide from his broken heart, and close himself of completely from any emotions and feelings. Hence, his keeping his associates at a distance, and never loving again.

But of course, that's the beauty in Zevran, all his actions can be interpreted individually, even though we all are more or less in agreement most of the time.
 

@ Ejoslin
Re. the bad boy. I see we're in agreement on that. To call Zevran a bad boy and that we are all falling for the bad boy image is a sweeping generalization. Simply because I (and through me, my PCs) never saw him as a bad boy at all. Like I said before, the bad boys are those like Bishop in NWN2, but Zevran is a far, far cry from that.

[Auridesion]

Sabriana wrote...

@ Auridesion

The Zevrans are bent but not broken, despite the horrible treatment they receive from early childhood on.

When survival matters to someone more than morality, as is the case with Zevran (especially when compared to Alistair) I feel that this is exactly what I mean by the 'bad-boy-but-not-a-bad-guy' thing.  When someone is bent but not broken, it is because they've been hardened by those experiences and are thus, harder to break.  They are far more cynical about life, they are far less likely to trust in others, and they are far more likely to care more for their own interests than anything else.  This, to me, is epitome of the bad-boy-type.  If you are the same as he is, then no, you wouldn't see him as the bad-boy-type, you would see a charming young man who doesn't whine about life, and instead makes the most of it. 

But my mind can't be changed that a man who kills people for money, enjoys it, and will betray you if he doesn't like you enough, is anything if not the bad-boy-stereotype.

[ejoslin]

Auridesion wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

@ Auridesion

The Zevrans are bent but not broken, despite the horrible treatment they receive from early childhood on.

When survival matters to someone more than morality, as is the case with Zevran (especially when compared to Alistair) I feel that this is exactly what I mean by the 'bad-boy-but-not-a-bad-guy' thing.  When someone is bent but not broken, it is because they've been hardened by those experiences and are thus, harder to break.  They are far more cynical about life, they are far less likely to trust in others, and they are far more likely to care more for their own interests than anything else.  This, to me, is epitome of the bad-boy-type.  If you are the same as he is, then no, you wouldn't see him as the bad-boy-type, you would see a charming young man who doesn't whine about life, and instead makes the most of it. 

But my mind can't be changed that a man who kills people for money, enjoys it, and will betray you if he doesn't like you enough, is anything if not the bad-boy-stereotype.

Heh, I suppose you say the same about Leliana fans?  Actually, Zevran regrets, Leliana enjoyed.  /shrug, see it as you will, you obviously have your mind made up as it is.

Edit: Leliana didn't even have the excuse of being a slave, being treated poorly, or anything.  She just enjoyed the hunt.  And if you think that Zevran is telling stories of enjoyment when he talks about his adventures, you're missing the point, or have never taken less-approval-getting dialogs.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 janvier 2010 - 02:07 .

[Creature 1]

Auridesion wrote...
When survival matters to someone more than morality, as is the case with Zevran (especially when compared to Alistair)

Oh phooey.  I bet Alistair would have made a more enthusiastic Crow than Zevran.  He's a weaker person, and craves someone else's leadership.  He would have broken completely. 

[Auridesion]

ejoslin wrote...

Heh, I suppose you say the same about Leliana fans?  Actually, Zevran regrets, Leliana enjoyed.  /shrug, see it as you will, you obviously have your mind made up as it is.

Edit: Leliana didn't even have the excuse of being a slave, being treated poorly, or anything.  She just enjoyed the hunt.  And if you think that Zevran is telling stories of enjoyment when he talks about his adventures, you're missing the point, or have never taken less-approval-getting dialogs.  

I don't think Zevran is evil, nor do I think that any of the companions are "bad" as in bad-is-evil.  I said the bad-boy-stereotype.  Like James Dean, or Cassanova.  They turn out to be softies, but they still make you swoon with their un-Alistair approach.  I mean to say it as a compliment to him, really.  He's the bad-boy, in the stereotypical sense. 

I thought everyone nowadays agreed that stereotypes and reality aren't the same thing...

xD

[ejoslin]

Auridesion wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Heh, I suppose you say the same about Leliana fans?  Actually, Zevran regrets, Leliana enjoyed.  /shrug, see it as you will, you obviously have your mind made up as it is.

Edit: Leliana didn't even have the excuse of being a slave, being treated poorly, or anything.  She just enjoyed the hunt.  And if you think that Zevran is telling stories of enjoyment when he talks about his adventures, you're missing the point, or have never taken less-approval-getting dialogs.  

I don't think Zevran is evil, nor do I think that any of the companions are "bad" as in bad-is-evil.  I said the bad-boy-stereotype.  Like James Dean, or Cassanova.  They turn out to be softies, but they still make you swoon with their un-Alistair approach.  I mean to say it as a compliment to him, really.  He's the bad-boy, in the stereotypical sense. 

I thought everyone nowadays agreed that stereotypes and reality aren't the same thing...

xD

And quite a few people disagree. I have no problem with you having your opinion, but you're making sweeping generalizations based on your perception of the character and refuse to see that other people see the character differently.  So it's a pointless conversation.  Peace!

Edit: Back to Zevran's ending, because it's far more interesting! I think that the sacrifice epilogue showed me the depth of the feelings of all the romance partners.  They all end up destroyed, with the exception of King Alistair; but even Gray Warden Alistair ends up destroyed.  I think Zevran's is the most tragic because, well, I get the feeling Alistair and Leliana's endings would have been the same had they never met the PC.

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 janvier 2010 - 02:25 .